"Abs are made in the kitchen" - confused question

goredguar
goredguar Posts: 63 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
Right, so by now I've (finally) learnt that abs are not going to magically appear with crunches galore - and the saying "abs are made in the kitchen" is how it is done.

But I'm confused. All the sites and information that I find doesn't really tell me much except "don't eat lots of crud food".

So why, when I had an ED and I was ridiculously low weight, did my flat stomach not look "toned"? (Presumably muscle loss?)

I've regained weight since then, but I find it difficult to eat "bad" foods (I know IIFYM and nothing is 'bad', but my mind is still stuck in the can't-touch-cookies realm).

...So if I've only been eating relatively "lean/healthy/clean" foods (oatmeal, lean chicken, wholemeal, vegetables, not much processed stuff at all) for so long, and I exercise 6 out of 7 days a week (alternating heavy weights and light cardio), where does this "abs are made in the kitchen" come into play, and what am I not doing? Confused!
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Replies

  • emilyisbonkers
    emilyisbonkers Posts: 373 Member
    You "reveal" abs by lower body fat %, you can do this by eating at a healthy deficit

    When you had your eating disorder you probably caused your body to eat more muscle mass than it should, so you would be left with less abs muscles and more stomach fat.
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
    Right, so by now I've (finally) learnt that abs are not going to magically appear with crunches galore - and the saying "abs are made in the kitchen" is how it is done.

    But I'm confused. All the sites and information that I find doesn't really tell me much except "don't eat lots of crud food".

    So why, when I had an ED and I was ridiculously low weight, did my flat stomach not look "toned"? (Presumably muscle loss?)

    I've regained weight since then, but I find it difficult to eat "bad" foods (I know IIFYM and nothing is 'bad', but my mind is still stuck in the can't-touch-cookies realm).

    ...So if I've only been eating relatively "lean/healthy/clean" foods (oatmeal, lean chicken, wholemeal, vegetables, not much processed stuff at all) for so long, and I exercise 6 out of 7 days a week (alternating heavy weights and light cardio), where does this "abs are made in the kitchen" come into play, and what am I not doing? Confused!

    Because you probably lost at a very high rate when you were dealing with an ED. Plus, you probably didn't do any sort of strength exercise or watching your protein intake to minimize muscle loss. So when you lost that fast and the way you did, you ended up losing a lot of muscle in the process and having a higher body fat % despite being at a lower weight.

    ETA: My suggestion would be to work on gaining per your plan while including a strength routine, as well as watching your protein intake. Continue with your therapy and work on not demonizing foods. Once you reach your goal gain, I'd then suggest maintaining and just work on recomping.
  • subsonicbassist
    subsonicbassist Posts: 117 Member
    You "reveal" abs by lower body fat %, you can do this by eating at a healthy deficit

    When you had your eating disorder you probably caused your body to eat more muscle mass than it should, so you would be left with less abs muscles and more stomach fat.
    ^^^This. Keep on with the heavy weights and don't do enough cardio that it affects your recovery from weightlifting. You can get all of that muscle back by working compound movements and maybe targeting abs 1-2 times a week. Usually deads, OHP and even squats work at gettting a strong core and ab muscles :)
  • jaygreen55
    jaygreen55 Posts: 315 Member
    It's not what you eat it's how much you eat. In order to see clearly defined abs you need to be at 10-12 percent body fat for a man and somewhat more for a woman (I'm not sure of the number). Just eat less calories than you burn, strength train to preserve lean body mass and eventually your abs will reveal themselves
  • lizzardsm
    lizzardsm Posts: 271 Member
    I think this phrase comes from the idea that people need to do a million crunches/ab exercises to get visible abs. BUT visible abs come from a low body fat percentage. Low body fat percentages are most easily achieved through a proper "cut" (i.e. diet to lose body fat and not muscle through a *moderate calorie deficit*, progressive loading weight training, and some cardio).

    Don't believe the broscience about cutting out foods (e.g. carbs) to get abs. That's not what it means. It's only about getting a low enough body fat percentage (not weight) to get the muscle to show through.
  • brianpperkins
    brianpperkins Posts: 6,124 Member
    Low body fat %, lucky genetics determining where your body takes that fat from first, and toned muscle mass = revealed abs.
  • day4s
    day4s Posts: 5
    What is your body fat percentage? From what I know, as a female you need to be below 16% on average to see abs.
    My personal experience is that my body weight can be ridiculously low, but still my BF% can be relatively high.
    I eat clean, like you describe, but my distribution didn't seem to work. Right now I eat at 30-40-30 % (carbs-protein-fat) and that makes a huge difference.
    Abs are also "made in the kitchen", because once you have burned the fat, you need to feed the muscle!
  • deksgrl
    deksgrl Posts: 7,237 Member
    You may need to do a bulk and then a cut cycle to actually get to the look you want, since your goal is to gain weight.
  • odusgolp
    odusgolp Posts: 10,477 Member
    It scares me that "low body fat" is continuing to be repeated in every post to someone that has had an ED for years and likely HAS a very low body fat.

    There's nothing wrong with a flat stomach that doesn't happen to have a visible 6-pack sticking out. Nothing.


    And we don't know nearly enough here, but I might venture to guess you'd actually need to start bulking and try putting on muscle to get the look you're describing.
  • MireyGal76
    MireyGal76 Posts: 7,334 Member
    If anything, I would think that you may be part of the few that could stand to do some core focused work. Not 1000 crunches a day, but incorporating some ab work (planks, bicycle, leg raises, pushups, and yes even some situps/crunches) would help develop those muscles some to make them pop more. But that won't happen if you are at a severe deficit.

    Yes abs are made in the kitchen, in that you need lower body fat to remove the fat that is hiding the muscles. But if the muscles are completely undeveloped, then it won't do much good, right?

    That said, if I don't make sense, I defer to those who have more education than I.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    weight loss- especially if you are coming from an ED is often not JUST fat- but muscle.

    This is why we encourage strength training- maximize fat loss- minimize muscle loss... so when you get down to a body fat you like- you actually like what you look like . Often times people struggle because they hit their target weight and it's not the beautiful slightly athletic look they were wanting because they lost muscle and fat- and did not resistance training.


    Doing core work is okay- it's not BAD- but it's not going to get you amazing abs if you are covered in fat- that whole abs made in the kitchen thing- but that doesn't mean- doing abs is bad- to much of anything is bad.

    I'd say keep up with compound lifts- and maybe do some more core focused work 2x a week and see where it takes you.
  • deksgrl
    deksgrl Posts: 7,237 Member
    It scares me that "low body fat" is continuing to be repeated in every post to someone that has had an ED for years and likely HAS a very low body fat.

    Because of loss of lean body mass she probably still has a high body fat %.
    There's nothing wrong with a flat stomach that doesn't happen to have a visible 6-pack sticking out. Nothing.

    Agree.
    And we don't know nearly enough here, but I might venture to guess you'd actually need to start bulking and try putting on muscle to get the look you're describing.

    Yes, she will need to get bigger and then do a cut to reduce the body fat to get that look.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    There's nothing wrong with a flat stomach that doesn't happen to have a visible 6-pack sticking out. Nothing.

    unless the goal is to have a visible six pack-then it's not 'wrong' just not the goal being met.

    And I'd agree- might be time to do some bulking!!! WOOT BRING ON THE COOKIES!
  • goredguar
    goredguar Posts: 63 Member
    I've 'recovered' weight-wise about half a year ago, and I'm currently 5"4 and 113 pounds (last time I weighed, but it keeps going up despite my waist staying the same, and is probably more than that now as my arms definitely look more muscled!)

    I have bought skin calipers, but it's really hard to pinch the skin in places such as the top of the thigh, (and do strange contortions to try to reach behind me hah ha!) Currently getting about 8mm on the suprailiac site right now which is like...19% BF? Seems wrong / too low. Waist is down to 25.5 inches now.

    There's a picture of me here from February 03rd when I decided to start weight training seriously (ie stop flailing around with the silly 2lb weights and endless cardio) - I'm up to 18lb dumbbells now which isn't much (but for me it's a big improvement, considering I found it difficult to pick up the 5lb to start with!) http://bodyspace.bodybuilding.com/permalink/progress-photo/GoredGuar/38381602

    Thanks for all the comments so far, you've all been really helpful!
  • odusgolp
    odusgolp Posts: 10,477 Member
    You discussed what type of food you eat, but what is your daily calorie/macro goal?
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    OP, I would say in your case, "abs are made in the kitchen" would mean that you need to eat to fuel muscle growth...i.e. bulk or at minimum, eat at maintenance and get into a good compound lifting program and do a bit of core isolation work after your primary workout. In your case, you need to build the muscle...that requires fuel...food is fuel...food is made in the kitchen.

    For me, "abs are made in the kitchen" means put that beer down and eat a little less and cut some more BF...I already have rock hard abs, but I'm 19-20% BF (which is totally healthy for my age) so those abs aren't visible at the moment (and haven't been since I was about 25 y.o. or so).
  • goredguar
    goredguar Posts: 63 Member
    You discussed what type of food you eat, but what is your daily calorie/macro goal?

    Pre-February, I started to count again to see what I was eating and found it was between 1200-1400 a day. Now I've taken advice from various books, MFP and BB members and sites, and I aim to get 1750-1850 on rest days and 2000 on weight training days. It was super difficult to overcome the mindset to eat that much at first (and actually get it in!) but now I'm finding I'm hungry all the time so it's getting easier, and I hit it (or go over) every day now.

    Macros I've set on MFP are 1820 calories, 40% carbohydrates (182g), 30% fats (61g) and 30% protein (137g) as stated in NRL4W.
  • odusgolp
    odusgolp Posts: 10,477 Member
    You discussed what type of food you eat, but what is your daily calorie/macro goal?

    Pre-February, I started to count again to see what I was eating and found it was between 1200-1400 a day. Now I've taken advice from various books, MFP and BB members and sites, and I aim to get 1750-1850 on rest days and 2000 on weight training days. It was super difficult to overcome the mindset to eat that much at first (and actually get it in!) but now I'm finding I'm hungry all the time so it's getting easier, and I hit it (or go over) every day now.

    Macros I've set on MFP are 1820 calories, 40% carbohydrates (182g), 30% fats (61g) and 30% protein (137g) as stated in NRL4W.


    I totally agree with him on this...
    OP, I would say in your case, "abs are made in the kitchen" would mean that you need to eat to fuel muscle growth...i.e. bulk or at minimum, eat at maintenance and get into a good compound lifting program and do a bit of core isolation work after your primary workout. In your case, you need to build the muscle...that requires fuel...food is fuel...food is made in the kitchen.

    And i'm glad to hear you've up your calories, as I'm thinking that's probably what will get you the more muscled look you're aiming for with lifting, of course.

    SideSteel or Sara might have some good input for ya on this one...
  • Mr_Excitement
    Mr_Excitement Posts: 833 Member
    It just means you should do your crunches in the kitchen.
  • jardimgirl
    jardimgirl Posts: 522 Member
    bump for a read later
  • Boogage
    Boogage Posts: 739 Member
    Bumping for later as I'm in a similar situation.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    You discussed what type of food you eat, but what is your daily calorie/macro goal?

    Pre-February, I started to count again to see what I was eating and found it was between 1200-1400 a day. Now I've taken advice from various books, MFP and BB members and sites, and I aim to get 1750-1850 on rest days and 2000 on weight training days. It was super difficult to overcome the mindset to eat that much at first (and actually get it in!) but now I'm finding I'm hungry all the time so it's getting easier, and I hit it (or go over) every day now.

    Macros I've set on MFP are 1820 calories, 40% carbohydrates (182g), 30% fats (61g) and 30% protein (137g) as stated in NRL4W.


    I totally agree with him on this...
    OP, I would say in your case, "abs are made in the kitchen" would mean that you need to eat to fuel muscle growth...i.e. bulk or at minimum, eat at maintenance and get into a good compound lifting program and do a bit of core isolation work after your primary workout. In your case, you need to build the muscle...that requires fuel...food is fuel...food is made in the kitchen.

    And i'm glad to hear you've up your calories, as I'm thinking that's probably what will get you the more muscled look you're aiming for with lifting, of course.

    SideSteel or Sara might have some good input for ya on this one...

    Keep in mind that despite clever marketing for achieving some kind of super fitness body in 30 days or 90 days or whatever...it doesn't happen like that. Building muscle and building a fitness body is a long process for a male...it is even harder for a female. We're not talking about a few months of work here and voila. People with rockin' fitness bodies have worked on those bodies for years, not days, weeks, or months.

    Also, for anyone interested and especially the OP...

    http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/
  • cafeaulait7
    cafeaulait7 Posts: 2,459 Member
    I was at a very disturbing BMI when I had a disease that took a while to be diagnosed. My internal organs changed position I was at such a low body fat (I lost so much visceral fat). My abs did not look great. None of my muscles looked anything but very thin (the muscles themselves) and even flabby, as in no muscle tone. I definitely don't agree that you have to have a high BF for that to be the only problem with nice-looking abs. Folks can have underworked muscles or eat little enough that the muscles can't do their regular thing.

    My muscles look totally different and much, much better even with a much higher bodyfat now. They get the proper work and nutrition, and those are quite important. Mine only took about a year to come back in force after the muscles got what they needed (not even lifting, really) :) That might have to do with my actual disease, but I was afraid that it would be hard to put all that muscle back on. Nope! It's like the body is begging to go back to normal muscle-wise once it has the proper nutrition, etc, imho.
  • Timshel_
    Timshel_ Posts: 22,834 Member
    Guys need to be down under 10% body fat to start seeing abs. EVERYONE has them already without any crunches. If you eat at a caloric deficit long enough you can find them. All the focus on crunches and core exercise is to increase your BMR and burn more calroeis daily, getting you to that lower body fat quicker. Cardio is also excellent for leaning out.

    So figure out the combination that works for you. But above all, eat at a proper deficit.
  • cafeaulait7
    cafeaulait7 Posts: 2,459 Member
    Guys need to be down under 10% body fat to start seeing abs. EVERYONE has them already without any crunches. If you eat at a caloric deficit long enough you can find them. All the focus on crunches and core exercise is to increase your BMR and burn more calroeis daily, getting you to that lower body fat quicker. Cardio is also excellent for leaning out.

    So figure out the combination that works for you. But above all, eat at a proper deficit.

    That's disturbing advice to give a recovering anorexic. She's not trying to lose weight, as you might imagine.
  • Timshel_
    Timshel_ Posts: 22,834 Member
    Guys need to be down under 10% body fat to start seeing abs. EVERYONE has them already without any crunches. If you eat at a caloric deficit long enough you can find them. All the focus on crunches and core exercise is to increase your BMR and burn more calroeis daily, getting you to that lower body fat quicker. Cardio is also excellent for leaning out.

    So figure out the combination that works for you. But above all, eat at a proper deficit.

    That's disturbing advice to give a recovering anorexic. She's not trying to lose weight, as you might imagine.

    I didn't read any of that. It's general advice for getting a six pack. No other way around it.

    The other issues would be more pertinent.
  • xWendyJonesx
    xWendyJonesx Posts: 266 Member
    Sorry I can't help you here, but I'm interested to hear what others have to say.
  • ndj1979
    ndj1979 Posts: 29,136 Member
    OP - what does your current weight training regimen look like? Do you do compound lifts, free weights, machines..etc?

    As others have noted, you probably lost a lot of muscle due to your ED …so you may actually have less abs to reveal then the "normal" person …you can fix that by working on your abs about an hour a week …weighted crunches, russian twists, decline weighted sit-ups, etc…but it is still going to come down to diet and heavy lifting program..
  • goredguar
    goredguar Posts: 63 Member
    OP - what does your current weight training regimen look like? Do you do compound lifts, free weights, machines..etc?

    As others have noted, you probably lost a lot of muscle due to your ED …so you may actually have less abs to reveal then the "normal" person …you can fix that by working on your abs about an hour a week …weighted crunches, russian twists, decline weighted sit-ups, etc…but it is still going to come down to diet and heavy lifting program..

    I started out using "body sculpting bible for women", but people on bodybuilding.com didn't think much of that, so I've switched to NRL4W. Thing is, compared to the previous book, NRL4W seems really easy. I guess it's because I've had to start at week 1 again.

    Everything I do is using dumbbells - I have a 20kg set but I'm going to have to order more discs soon as I'm up to 18kg.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    OP - what does your current weight training regimen look like? Do you do compound lifts, free weights, machines..etc?

    As others have noted, you probably lost a lot of muscle due to your ED …so you may actually have less abs to reveal then the "normal" person …you can fix that by working on your abs about an hour a week …weighted crunches, russian twists, decline weighted sit-ups, etc…but it is still going to come down to diet and heavy lifting program..

    I started out using "body sculpting bible for women", but people on bodybuilding.com didn't think much of that, so I've switched to NRL4W. Thing is, compared to the previous book, NRL4W seems really easy. I guess it's because I've had to start at week 1 again.

    Everything I do is using dumbbells - I have a 20kg set but I'm going to have to order more discs soon as I'm up to 18kg.

    isn't that a Weidler book?

    Regardless- NROL is good- but you won't be able to do it with dumbbells- the point of these programs is to progressively load- so you'll need to keep moving up- i'd see about investing in some barbells- much like your little hamster friend has in your avatar- or perhaps start looking at a gym.

    Compound training with a barbell is like shopping at Wal-Mart- you can get a lot done at once instead of shopping at specialty stores. lots of bang for your buck- and not hours and hours days on days- usually just 3-4 lifts a week. Works better for most people than trying to fit in 1-2 hrs 6 days a week.

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