Upped my calories and NOW I'm starving?

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  • susie3g
    susie3g Posts: 267
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    I upped my calories to 1350 but actually eat 1500-:huh:

    I'm really afraid this is going to be the case for me, too, if every day is like today. :(
  • ell_v131
    ell_v131 Posts: 349 Member
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    I took a peak at your diary.

    Increase your protein
    Incorporate more "healthy fat" into your diet (i.e. avocado, nuts, nut butter)
    Track your fibre intake instead of your sugar intake and make sure you're getting enough fibre as well. But gradually increase your fibre intake and ensure you drink a lot of water.

    Increasing these macros should help you feel full.

    As an example, I can have a whole grain bagel with peanut butter for breakfast at 8am and be good until noon :)

    protein and fat.

    yes to that.
  • susie3g
    susie3g Posts: 267
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    I've been struggling to stay over 1200 calories because I felt it was counterproductive to force myself to eat when I was already full. After learning from some that I really needed to get my calories up, I've forced myself to eat much closer to my goal of 1360. The problem is that now I feel like I'm starving to death. Why is that? Why do I feel more hungry when I eat more food? I'm really hoping this evens out to some happy medium because I don't want to feel hunger pangs like this every day. This just makes no sense to me.

    GOOD! This is GOOD. It's your metabolism doing what it's DESIGNED to do! Hit a calculator, find your TDEE, and then gradually work your way up so you're eating at ~500 calorie deficit from your TDEE and you'll be golden.

    My TDEE is 1779. 1779 - 500 = 1279. MFP has my goal set at 1360. So basically I was better off doing what I was doing before. ? I am so freaking confused.
    How did you calculate your TDEE?

    I have you at 39 years old, 5'2", and 187 pounds (based on info you've given in your posts) and TDEE at sedentary shows at 1885. Light exercise kicks that up to 2160. If I've missed something, let me know, I just want to make sure that you didn't miscalculate somewhere and take a deduction from your BMR or something.

    I went to this site ( http://iifym.com/tdee-calculator/ ) , put in 39 years old, female, 5'2", and 188 pounds, no exercise/couch potato and it says my BMR is 1483 and TDEE is 1779.

    Fair enough--I had used fitnessfrog and they do have some variation. Honestly, my suggestion would be to add some exercise. Based on your diary, you already did plenty in this last week to consider yourself lightly active.

    I didn't know there were variations. I'm just learning about TDEE and BMR in this past month, and I know my knowledge is limited to what little research I've done. When you say to add some exercise, do you mean for me to exercise more or you are saying to add that in to my activity level to change my caloric intake on MFP? Sorry.. I'm just still a little confused. And this morning I'm famished again. LOL.
  • gvheintz
    gvheintz Posts: 138 Member
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    This is what I've been doing... I've been striving to eat foods with a higher satiety.

    Add more low fructose fruits like berries instead of some of the higher fructose fruits like bananas.

    Add more non-starchy vegetables -- peppers, spinach, lettuce, broccoli, cauliflower, kale, celery, cabbage, snap peas, etc. I've been juicing some of my servings to help me get more veg in my diet. (I will often throw the fibre into a soup where it bulks it up nice.) Also, when you eat fibrous vegetables, they make you feel full.

    Add more protein. For breakfast I have been eating omelets with two eggs, three egg whites (egg whites are particularly high in protein), cottage cheese and different extras like sauteed mushrooms or wilted spinach or ham. Greek yogurt is a great source of protein ... better if you get natural and look for ones low in sugar.

    Eat good fats that make you feel full ... raw nuts help with the cravings. I like about 25 almonds to tide me over.

    I found that the only processed granola bar that helps me is the Kashi bars with almonds. I feel fuller after having one of those. Most other granola bars, I could eat multiple of them and still be hungry.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,874 Member
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    I've been struggling to stay over 1200 calories because I felt it was counterproductive to force myself to eat when I was already full. After learning from some that I really needed to get my calories up, I've forced myself to eat much closer to my goal of 1360. The problem is that now I feel like I'm starving to death. Why is that? Why do I feel more hungry when I eat more food? I'm really hoping this evens out to some happy medium because I don't want to feel hunger pangs like this every day. This just makes no sense to me.

    GOOD! This is GOOD. It's your metabolism doing what it's DESIGNED to do! Hit a calculator, find your TDEE, and then gradually work your way up so you're eating at ~500 calorie deficit from your TDEE and you'll be golden.

    My TDEE is 1779. 1779 - 500 = 1279. MFP has my goal set at 1360. So basically I was better off doing what I was doing before. ? I am so freaking confused.
    How did you calculate your TDEE?

    I have you at 39 years old, 5'2", and 187 pounds (based on info you've given in your posts) and TDEE at sedentary shows at 1885. Light exercise kicks that up to 2160. If I've missed something, let me know, I just want to make sure that you didn't miscalculate somewhere and take a deduction from your BMR or something.

    I went to this site ( http://iifym.com/tdee-calculator/ ) , put in 39 years old, female, 5'2", and 188 pounds, no exercise/couch potato and it says my BMR is 1483 and TDEE is 1779.

    Fair enough--I had used fitnessfrog and they do have some variation. Honestly, my suggestion would be to add some exercise. Based on your diary, you already did plenty in this last week to consider yourself lightly active.

    I didn't know there were variations. I'm just learning about TDEE and BMR in this past month, and I know my knowledge is limited to what little research I've done. When you say to add some exercise, do you mean for me to exercise more or you are saying to add that in to my activity level to change my caloric intake on MFP? Sorry.. I'm just still a little confused. And this morning I'm famished again. LOL.

    If you're going to utilize the TDEE method you have to take into account all activity...so if you exercise, your activity level won't be sedentary...TDEE is Total Daily Energy Expenditure. If you exercise, you increase your activity level...thus your calorie requirements (TDEE) are increased...so you can eat more whilst accomplishing the same things. When using the TDEE method, you have to make sure you're consistent with your fitness otherwise you formula is off.

    With MFP, you don't include exercise in your activity level because MFP utilizes the NEAT method (Non Exercise Activity Thermogenesis) whereby you account for your exercise calories after the fact when you log it and get those calories to eat back. If you're doing the MFP method and exercising you should be eating those calories back (conservatively adjusted for estimation error of course).
  • abi_babi
    abi_babi Posts: 9 Member
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    I had a quick peek at your food diary, i agree that protein and fibre are super important at every meal (if i dont get protein in im still starving after eating). My favourise foods for filling up are quest bars, popcorn, oatmeal and chia seeds.
    another thing i would suggest would be breaking up your meals so that you have lighter meals and more snacks. i find myself continually starving so i eat a lighter lunch and dinner so i can have decent snacks throughout the day.
    also, are you adding your exercise in and eating back those calories? its super important to make sure you eat back what you exercise otherwise you would be well below a healthy range (if i dont eat enough after working out i get so hungry it makes me ill)
  • susie3g
    susie3g Posts: 267
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    I've been struggling to stay over 1200 calories because I felt it was counterproductive to force myself to eat when I was already full. After learning from some that I really needed to get my calories up, I've forced myself to eat much closer to my goal of 1360. The problem is that now I feel like I'm starving to death. Why is that? Why do I feel more hungry when I eat more food? I'm really hoping this evens out to some happy medium because I don't want to feel hunger pangs like this every day. This just makes no sense to me.

    GOOD! This is GOOD. It's your metabolism doing what it's DESIGNED to do! Hit a calculator, find your TDEE, and then gradually work your way up so you're eating at ~500 calorie deficit from your TDEE and you'll be golden.

    My TDEE is 1779. 1779 - 500 = 1279. MFP has my goal set at 1360. So basically I was better off doing what I was doing before. ? I am so freaking confused.
    How did you calculate your TDEE?

    I have you at 39 years old, 5'2", and 187 pounds (based on info you've given in your posts) and TDEE at sedentary shows at 1885. Light exercise kicks that up to 2160. If I've missed something, let me know, I just want to make sure that you didn't miscalculate somewhere and take a deduction from your BMR or something.

    I went to this site ( http://iifym.com/tdee-calculator/ ) , put in 39 years old, female, 5'2", and 188 pounds, no exercise/couch potato and it says my BMR is 1483 and TDEE is 1779.

    Fair enough--I had used fitnessfrog and they do have some variation. Honestly, my suggestion would be to add some exercise. Based on your diary, you already did plenty in this last week to consider yourself lightly active.

    I didn't know there were variations. I'm just learning about TDEE and BMR in this past month, and I know my knowledge is limited to what little research I've done. When you say to add some exercise, do you mean for me to exercise more or you are saying to add that in to my activity level to change my caloric intake on MFP? Sorry.. I'm just still a little confused. And this morning I'm famished again. LOL.

    If you're going to utilize the TDEE method you have to take into account all activity...so if you exercise, your activity level won't be sedentary...TDEE is Total Daily Energy Expenditure. If you exercise, you increase your activity level...thus your calorie requirements (TDEE) are increased...so you can eat more whilst accomplishing the same things. When using the TDEE method, you have to make sure you're consistent with your fitness otherwise you formula is off.

    With MFP, you don't include exercise in your activity level because MFP utilizes the NEAT method (Non Exercise Activity Thermogenesis) whereby you account for your exercise calories after the fact when you log it and get those calories to eat back. If you're doing the MFP method and exercising you should be eating those calories back (conservatively adjusted for estimation error of course).

    Thank you for the explanation. How are we sure that MFP uses the NEAT method? Do they have that listed on the site somewhere? I'm asking that because I know they ask your activity level when you set your fitness goals. It doesn't seem like they would ask that if they weren't taking my exercise into consideration when setting up my caloric intake goals.
  • susie3g
    susie3g Posts: 267
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    I had a quick peek at your food diary, i agree that protein and fibre are super important at every meal (if i dont get protein in im still starving after eating). My favourise foods for filling up are quest bars, popcorn, oatmeal and chia seeds.
    another thing i would suggest would be breaking up your meals so that you have lighter meals and more snacks. i find myself continually starving so i eat a lighter lunch and dinner so i can have decent snacks throughout the day.
    also, are you adding your exercise in and eating back those calories? its super important to make sure you eat back what you exercise otherwise you would be well below a healthy range (if i dont eat enough after working out i get so hungry it makes me ill)

    I have a family to cook for in the evenings. I try to make sure that my man gets enough to eat at night because I know he doesn't get enough through the day, so I usually log my evening calories first to find out how much I can eat for the rest of the day. Maybe I can have several snacks through the day instead of a breakfast and lunch, but I can't see my doing less for my dinner. :/ When I do exercise, which is maybe 3 times a week, I can only last for 15-20 minutes before I run out of breath. It usually turns out to be about 110 calories burned, not very much. I haven't been eating those back because really, 110 calories is hardly anything to eat back anyway. But I get what you are saying.
  • averytds
    averytds Posts: 64 Member
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    I'm not sure what your budget is like, but you can save quite a few calories by replacing all or a portion of your ground beef with lower fat beef or ground turkey. Think 93/7 or even 85/15. I often pay the same as cheaper beef as I will grab marked down packs a day or two before the sell by date and freeze them.

    You could get at least double the protein replacing your protein bars with something like Pure Protein bars. They seem to range 180-200 calories each, but have 20g of protein. Double the protein switching your regular yogurt to Greek yogurt.

    I usually eat what I cook for the family as well, but routinely have salad and cottage cheese on the table at every dinner even though usually only I eat them. I have more veg with dinner than anyone else too and end up with more calories available for snacks throughout the day.

    I also have a few go to meals with really good calories/macros like tilapia fillets and steamed veggies or chicken breast and mashed sweet potatoes that are very filling, have high protein and low calories. I'll have that for lunch when I know I'm going to have a high calorie dinner like pizza.
  • susie3g
    susie3g Posts: 267
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    I'm not sure what your budget is like, but you can save quite a few calories by replacing all or a portion of your ground beef with lower fat beef or ground turkey. Think 93/7 or even 85/15. I often pay the same as cheaper beef as I will grab marked down packs a day or two before the sell by date and freeze them.

    You could get at least double the protein replacing your protein bars with something like Pure Protein bars. They seem to range 180-200 calories each, but have 20g of protein. Double the protein switching your regular yogurt to Greek yogurt.

    I usually eat what I cook for the family as well, but routinely have salad and cottage cheese on the table at every dinner even though usually only I eat them. I have more veg with dinner than anyone else too and end up with more calories available for snacks throughout the day.

    I also have a few go to meals with really good calories/macros like tilapia fillets and steamed veggies or chicken breast and mashed sweet potatoes that are very filling, have high protein and low calories. I'll have that for lunch when I know I'm going to have a high calorie dinner like pizza.

    My budget is slim. Our grocery bill has already went up tremendously since there's less stuff like mac-n-cheese and hamburger helper and more fresh produce. I have to use a lot of generic brand foods. Most of my evening meals are not that high calorie. As a matter of fact, I have tilapia at least once a week paired with veggies and have chicken a few times a week, too. If I have pizza, it's a much lower cal homemade pizza. I don't have enough calories or money to eat fish and chicken for lunch AND dinner through the week. My allotmentof calories is much lower than yours. I noticed most days you can have nearly 2000 calories and mine is set around 1300. There's no way I'd have enough calories to eat a full lunch like you mentioned AND a high calorie pizza dinner.
  • averytds
    averytds Posts: 64 Member
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    I have my goals set to only 1lb/wk and I lift heavy 3 times a week. I also go for a walk or do a little aerobic activity, something pretty well every day even if just for 15 or 20 minutes. Tons of free vids to do on Youtube. It's pretty easy to get another hundred here or there in a day. With my current activity level, I try to stay between 1600-1800 a day which is like TDEE minus 20-30% depending on the calculator used, but I often go a bit over. I'm 5'3" and when TOM goes will be around 190lb. I get something like 1490 to start with at sedentary, so only about 120 higher than you.

    Doing this will take me longer to get to my goal weight I guess, but the scale number is no longer my driving force. I'm not dieting and don't foresee an end point really. I'm reclaiming my life. I've lost and regained plus a little more for my troubles too many times in my life. I've been dieting since I was about 12 years old. My end results were approximately an extra 10lb each year. So I refuse to do it anymore.

    As I come up on my 1 year mark, I'll only be down about 80lbs instead of the 100+ I could have struggling at 1200 a day, but OMG, that's 80lb for very little effort. Best of all, for me at least, it's sustainable long term.


    Check my diary for today. Its at 1471. It includes a full breakfast, pizza and even my current favorite treat. Most items are made from scratch. MFP's recipe builder is great for tweaking recipes. I eat Hamburger Helper and mac and cheese sometimes too, I just health it up a little, which incidentally also stretches the food budget. Try adding a couple cans of veggies or beans to it. Cheeseburger Mac with a can of corn and a can of kidney beans or diced tomatoes is great. You get more servings and they have better nutritional stats. Leave out the butter and use a leaner meat. Add frozen broccoli or mixed veggies to things. Swap oatmeal for crackers in your meatloaf. Seriously, check the labels at your local grocery and go a day before sell by on the meats and buy it marked down. I'll likely do something active today because we're snowed in and its boring, so maybe a dance workout with the kids. I'm going to bake as well, so will probably be adding in at least another 200 calories or so. The 1470 though is set at sedentary, so could just veg on the couch all day if I wanted.

    A vegetable garden is big on the to do list for this year because of finances, but there are a lot of ways to up the nutritional value without really upping the price. A site called hillbillyhousewife.com helped me years ago in extremely lean times and I learned quite a bit. I don't visit it as much anymore, but there is a lot of good info and recipes there.

    Sorry, rambled a bit. If you see any recipes you want, let me know.
  • susie3g
    susie3g Posts: 267
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    I have my goals set to only 1lb/wk and I lift heavy 3 times a week. I also go for a walk or do a little aerobic activity, something pretty well every day even if just for 15 or 20 minutes. Tons of free vids to do on Youtube. It's pretty easy to get another hundred here or there in a day. With my current activity level, I try to stay between 1600-1800 a day which is like TDEE minus 20-30% depending on the calculator used, but I often go a bit over. I'm 5'3" and when TOM goes will be around 190lb. I get something like 1490 to start with at sedentary, so only about 120 higher than you.

    Doing this will take me longer to get to my goal weight I guess, but the scale number is no longer my driving force. I'm not dieting and don't foresee an end point really. I'm reclaiming my life. I've lost and regained plus a little more for my troubles too many times in my life. I've been dieting since I was about 12 years old. My end results were approximately an extra 10lb each year. So I refuse to do it anymore.

    As I come up on my 1 year mark, I'll only be down about 80lbs instead of the 100+ I could have struggling at 1200 a day, but OMG, that's 80lb for very little effort. Best of all, for me at least, it's sustainable long term.


    Check my diary for today. Its at 1471. It includes a full breakfast, pizza and even my current favorite treat. Most items are made from scratch. MFP's recipe builder is great for tweaking recipes. I eat Hamburger Helper and mac and cheese sometimes too, I just health it up a little, which incidentally also stretches the food budget. Try adding a couple cans of veggies or beans to it. Cheeseburger Mac with a can of corn and a can of kidney beans or diced tomatoes is great. You get more servings and they have better nutritional stats. Leave out the butter and use a leaner meat. Add frozen broccoli or mixed veggies to things. Swap oatmeal for crackers in your meatloaf. Seriously, check the labels at your local grocery and go a day before sell by on the meats and buy it marked down. I'll likely do something active today because we're snowed in and its boring, so maybe a dance workout with the kids. I'm going to bake as well, so will probably be adding in at least another 200 calories or so. The 1470 though is set at sedentary, so could just veg on the couch all day if I wanted.

    A vegetable garden is big on the to do list for this year because of finances, but there are a lot of ways to up the nutritional value without really upping the price. A site called hillbillyhousewife.com helped me years ago in extremely lean times and I learned quite a bit. I don't visit it as much anymore, but there is a lot of good info and recipes there.

    Sorry, rambled a bit. If you see any recipes you want, let me know.

    I also have mine set for only a pound a week. It's set at sedentary, because even when I exercise, it's only for a few minutes and doesn't burn many calories at all. I use dancing videos I found when browsing OnDemand on cable. My toddler is very clingy, so I have to do it when she takes her nap. How old are you? I think perhaps our age difference is why my calories are set lower than yours. I started out at 200 pounds. I'm 39 years old. I get the idea that you change your fitness goals based on what you plan to do each day, like whether you plan to exercise or not. Do I have this correct or am I confused again? Lol.

    Yes, like you, I don't want to diet anymore. I want to eat in a healthy way for the rest of my life. I want to be an example for my family and live long enough to see my daughter graduate high school. No end point here, either.

    I looked at your diary earlier and noticed that your calorie values for each meal appear to be much the same as mine on a normal day,. The weekends are not my normal days..lol. I LOVE the recipe builder. I use it all the time because most of what I make is from scratch, too. I'm weird about not doing stuff like mixing the veggies in the mac and cheese.. only because I won't know then exactly how much of the food on my plate is veggie and how much is mac-n-cheese, and I really don't want to go over on my calories. It's hard to stay in that little window (from 1200 - 1360 cals/day). I can stay under 1360 or above 1200, but it's hard for me to do both at the same time..lol. I've been doing it, though, for the past few days, so maybe there's hope for me. Grocery shopping now takes about an hour longer than it used to because I read the labels like they were the Holy Grail. Mostly checking for calorie and sodium content. I'm borderline hypertensive and trying to get that under control, too. I would love, love, love to have a vegetable garden!! That would be awesome eating and a wonderful exercise, too! I live in apartments in a big city and that's a no-go here, though. :/ When summer comes, shopping for produce will be cheaper because I can go to the Farmer's Market. They are only open through the summer on the weekends, though. Grrr. I'm going to check out the site you mentioned, hillbillyhousewife.com. I'm also following a thread on here about how to eat healthy on a budget, too. Thanks for all your help!
  • susie3g
    susie3g Posts: 267
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    OMG.. I just read on that site about how to drain and rinse ground beef after it's cooked to rid it of a lot of the fat. Genius information on that site! Thank you so much! Bookmarking!
  • averytds
    averytds Posts: 64 Member
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    I'll be 38 next month. I started last year at 260lbs.

    I have MFP set without exercise, but I recalculate my TDEE about every 10lbs lost or so for both lightly and moderately active. I always get my lifting in. It's only 25 minutes 3x a week, so no really good excuses to get out of it. I enjoy it anyways. I've had busier times, extended out of town and illnesses/injuries where I totally sloughed off though, so I like knowing where I stand if I really want/need to sit around all day and still progress. In the beginning, it also really helped me to see that going out to eat, cake at a party, whatever wasn't the end of the world, I might as well give up, total fail that it might have been without that knowledge. Pretty much any day 2000 or under is a total win for me and I can do a lot with 2000 calories. I'm a much nicer person too than at 1200 or less.

    Try some container gardening this year. You can do leaf lettuce, cherry tomatoes, bell peppers, cucumbers.....all kinds of stuff. Just google "container gardening". Every little bit helps. Also try shopping around. Braum's (a fast food chain) and a smaller grocery chain here have produce about half of what Wal-mart or another bigger chain has it for. Hillbillyhousewife used to have emergency menus including the shopping list for like $45/wk & $65/wk for a family of 4 with all made from scratch/ nutritious foods. I don't see it anymore, but I've never been able to navigate the current site as well as the old. In the shopping link, there is a lot of good info, so be sure to check that out.

    When you make any recipe, you will get varying amounts of the ingredients per serving. Every slice of pizza isn't going to have the exact same number of mushrooms nor is every serving of HH going to have the same amount of pasta. I don't think it's relevant nor will it hurt your progress, but you can separate individual portions of ingredients for yourself and then mix in a separate bowl if it truly bothers you.

    I would bet you are burning more calories than you think when you exercise. Just taking a walk on a level surface nets over 100 calories per mile for my height/weight/age.
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
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    OMG.. I just read on that site about how to drain and rinse ground beef after it's cooked to rid it of a lot of the fat. Genius information on that site! Thank you so much! Bookmarking!

    omg...no. :laugh:

    And what's wrong with fat? Are you going over that much every week and not meeting your other macros?
  • averytds
    averytds Posts: 64 Member
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    Nothing wrong with fat at all. We were discussing ways to pack in more food with less calories though. I often buy a better quality of ground beef and sometimes use poultry products like turkey bacon or turkey sausage when I want more calories to splurge on other things later. No different than adding in some egg whites vs whole eggs or using stevia instead of sugar in your coffee. I can't say I've ever rinsed the fat off ground beef, but it really wouldn't hurt going into something like a casserole with a lot of other ingredients and seasonings I wouldn't think. I have hidden ground turkey or venison many times in recipes without anyone remarking upon it. No idea how you would log it though.

    It all depends on what I have, what numbers I have to work with and what else I want to do with my day. If we're doing Pizza Hut, I'm going to eat 3-4 slices. So trim 20 calories here, 30 there. A big favorite here is sausage and cabbage. I don't even drain the fat before tossing in the cabbage. Its fantastic stuff with spicy mustard. I'm usually well over on my fat those days. :)
  • susie3g
    susie3g Posts: 267
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    OMG.. I just read on that site about how to drain and rinse ground beef after it's cooked to rid it of a lot of the fat. Genius information on that site! Thank you so much! Bookmarking!

    omg...no. :laugh:

    And what's wrong with fat? Are you going over that much every week and not meeting your other macros?

    Spoken like someone who hasn't actually read the thread, but no, I'm not going over that much every week and not meeting other macros. Nothing wrong with the fat in my diet that I can tell just yet. My concern is the calorie count in fattier ground beef. Did you have any better suggestions or just came here to laugh?
  • susie3g
    susie3g Posts: 267
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    OMG.. I just read on that site about how to drain and rinse ground beef after it's cooked to rid it of a lot of the fat. Genius information on that site! Thank you so much! Bookmarking!

    omg...no. :laugh:

    Seriously--I usually drain it so it doesn't taste greasy but I never heard of rinsing it til I got on here. Bleh.

    I had never heard of it, either, and at first glance, kinda was turned off by the idea. However, after reading the full article's directions, I don't see how it would change the taste one bit if you are returning the crumbled ground beef to the same greasy pan you cooked it in and adding other ingredients. I'll try it and if I don't like it, I won't try it again.
  • cookiealbright
    cookiealbright Posts: 605 Member
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    I looked at your diary for yesterday (Sunday) and maybe you should cut out some snacks and eat something for dinner. Like a lean protien and some veggies. Just a suggestion.
  • susie3g
    susie3g Posts: 267
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    Nothing wrong with fat at all. We were discussing ways to pack in more food with less calories though. I often buy a better quality of ground beef and sometimes use poultry products like turkey bacon or turkey sausage when I want more calories to splurge on other things later. No different than adding in some egg whites vs whole eggs or using stevia instead of sugar in your coffee. I can't say I've ever rinsed the fat off ground beef, but it really wouldn't hurt going into something like a casserole with a lot of other ingredients and seasonings I wouldn't think. I have hidden ground turkey or venison many times in recipes without anyone remarking upon it. No idea how you would log it though.

    It all depends on what I have, what numbers I have to work with and what else I want to do with my day. If we're doing Pizza Hut, I'm going to eat 3-4 slices. So trim 20 calories here, 30 there. A big favorite here is sausage and cabbage. I don't even drain the fat before tossing in the cabbage. Its fantastic stuff with spicy mustard. I'm usually well over on my fat those days. :)

    She has the calorie counts on that site listed for before and after rinsing. I'm not quite sure how accurate that is, though. Hmm. You gotta good point there.

    We eat cabbage with sausage quite often. I've swapped out the sausage for ground beef and onions and it's fabulous that way, too. Thanks for your help and for not making me feel stupid for coming to the forums to ask a question. It's much appreciated.