Squats: toes forward, or pointed out?

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billionhighways
billionhighways Posts: 4
in Fitness and Exercise
I'm new-ish to free weights, and I'm doing them at home with NROLFW. I started to get curious about the difference between deadlifting and squats, since as I was doing them with dumbbells the form was pretty much identical (toes forward, hip distance or a little wider, squat as low as possible, press up).

I googled it and found a Squats 101 video on Schwarzenegger's website that shows feet wider, toes turned slightly out (like malasana in yoga). I tried that, and I can go a lot deeper that way, but I had to shift down from 40-lb dumbbells to 15-lb dumbbells. Any more experienced lifters with feedback?
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Replies

  • ATGsquats
    ATGsquats Posts: 227 Member
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    Toes out and stand wider than your hips, maybe shoulder width. It'll help you open up your hips and get deeper in your squats. Remember, fall back on your heels and drive down with your heels to go up. If you drive down with the balls of your feet the weight is gonna move forward and you lose the activation of your posterior chain.
  • astronomicals
    astronomicals Posts: 1,537 Member
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    different stances hit different muscles.. Typically a wider stance is recommended as it will hit more muscles and allow you to move more weight. Ultimately, you should find what feels right and allows you to execute a squat with good form.
  • monty619
    monty619 Posts: 1,308 Member
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    toes are ALWAYS out.. lots of squat variants and none have two feet pointed forward mess up ur knees
  • lmhbuss
    lmhbuss Posts: 282 Member
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    In for the wisdom
  • steve0820
    steve0820 Posts: 510 Member
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    toes are ALWAYS out.. lots of squat variants and none have two feet pointed forward mess up ur knees

    I agree! Toes always out. As far as your width, it's something you can play around with. I tend to go a little more then shoulder width apart, but that's me!!
  • helpfit101
    helpfit101 Posts: 347 Member
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    I'd just like to say deadlifts and squats are quite different. Try to have somebody show you or look at you and tell you where they are different.

    Toes don't really matter (usually slightly outward) as long as your knees move in-line with where your toes point. That means there shouldn't be an unnatural direction to where your knees go to prevent injury.
  • kelly_e_montana
    kelly_e_montana Posts: 1,999 Member
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    I do yoga so I am familiar with malasana. I do olympic style squats vs. powerlifting style squats *most of the time*, and my coaches usually have me a bit narrower than malasana when I squat ATG. You'll have to google ATG because I can't say it on here. That being said, malasana is a great pose for working on your flexibility for your squats. My yoga teacher is also having us work on having our toes completely forward in malasana but I'm usually squatting with my toes out when I am lifting. My coaches are having me working on a less aggressive outward turn though.

    Here's a really good article on squat positions and pros and cons: http://www.catalystathletics.com/articles/article.php?articleID=113
  • billionhighways
    billionhighways Posts: 4
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    This is awesome feedback -- thanks, everyone! NROLFW says "Set your feet shoulder-width apart, toes pointed forward" so it's interesting to see that the consensus is pointed out w/ a wider stance. It definitely gives me a much deeper range of motion (which is sort of the goal, right?)
  • dsnapp3
    dsnapp3 Posts: 19 Member
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    This just out today and is a great article on squats with pics.
    http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2014/03/03/strength-training-101-how-to-squat-properly/#more-21628
  • rejectuf
    rejectuf Posts: 487 Member
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    I think toes pointed slightly out is the standard. I remember reading some explanation of how a forward pointing toe helps increase your ability slightly due to creating torque.
  • nz_deevaa
    nz_deevaa Posts: 12,209 Member
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    This is awesome feedback -- thanks, everyone! NROLFW says "Set your feet shoulder-width apart, toes pointed forward" so it's interesting to see that the consensus is pointed out w/ a wider stance. It definitely gives me a much deeper range of motion (which is sort of the goal, right?)

    If you've got a large amount of weight to lose and you carry it in your belly, you might need to make your stance even wider to allow extra room for your belly (I did anyways).
  • bkjk997
    bkjk997 Posts: 106 Member
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    I am no expert, but this came to my inbox yesterday:
    http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2014/03/03/strength-training-101-how-to-squat-properly/
  • LindseySprake
    LindseySprake Posts: 333 Member
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    Toes out and stand wider than your hips, maybe shoulder width. It'll help you open up your hips and get deeper in your squats. Remember, fall back on your heels and drive down with your heels to go up. If you drive down with the balls of your feet the weight is gonna move forward and you lose the activation of your posterior chain.

    ^^^THIS^^^ no matter what variation :flowerforyou:
  • BernadetteChurch
    BernadetteChurch Posts: 2,210 Member
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    This is interesting. I usually start with toes out but sometimes have to shift them inwards if my knee starts to hurt.

    Time for me to do some more research, I think!

    Thanks for the links, people!
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    Toes out and stand wider than your hips, maybe shoulder width. It'll help you open up your hips and get deeper in your squats.
    This is so wrong it's not even funny- WRONG WRONG WRONG- not because it is not true- but it's backwards.

    People: turn out does not come from the toes.

    You will still goon your knees up by turning your toes out if you lack hip mobility.

    The turn out comes from THE HIP!!!!! You must work hip mobility. Not toe turn out. You'll blow your knee out still if you turn your toe out and the hip doesn't have it to meet.

    If you're hip will not open- your knee- and there for your toe will not safely turn out.

    Straight is perfectly fine if you are comfortable- typically you can generate more torque with a slight turn out- but straight is fine IF you are aware that you need to be shoving those knees out.

    Secondly- squatting and deadlifting are NOTHING alike and while you are "stitting" in both of them- it's totally different and I highly suggest you do some googling OP on techniques- and then video yourself and compare to a good quality video- and or post a form video somewhere and get a critique.
  • kartrip360
    kartrip360 Posts: 3
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    It depends on your normal stance! Stand as you normally would, then adjust width of your feet to shoulder width apart. Not everyones hips are the same. Just look at females with or without children. Hip structure will decide what is or is not comfortable, and keeping your knees and hips in natural alignment will prevent undue stress on your joints.
  • RoseTears143
    RoseTears143 Posts: 1,121 Member
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    I agree with the wisdom here - wider stance and toes out. But then again, try different widths and angles of your toes and see what feels comfortable. Everyones hip joints can vary and you have to sees what feels good for your anatomy. The goal is to get deep without hurting your knees (or your back if you are using weights). Squat on! :drinker:
  • danimalkeys
    danimalkeys Posts: 982 Member
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    I always felt the wider your stance, the further out your toes should point. On a sumo deadlift where your feet are almost touching the plates, you want your toes way out. A conventional stance deadlift with the feet nearly touching, toes are straight ahead. The same idea goes for squats.
  • mccindy72
    mccindy72 Posts: 7,001 Member
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    Toes out and stand wider than your hips, maybe shoulder width. It'll help you open up your hips and get deeper in your squats.
    This is so wrong it's not even funny- WRONG WRONG WRONG- not because it is not true- but it's backwards.

    People: turn out does not come from the toes.

    You will still goon your knees up by turning your toes out if you lack hip mobility.

    The turn out comes from THE HIP!!!!! You must work hip mobility. Not toe turn out. You'll blow your knee out still if you turn your toe out and the hip doesn't have it to meet.

    If you're hip will not open- your knee- and there for your toe will not safely turn out.

    Straight is perfectly fine if you are comfortable- typically you can generate more torque with a slight turn out- but straight is fine IF you are aware that you need to be shoving those knees out.

    Secondly- squatting and deadlifting are NOTHING alike and while you are "stitting" in both of them- it's totally different and I highly suggest you do some googling OP on techniques- and then video yourself and compare to a good quality video- and or post a form video somewhere and get a critique.

    I'd definitely agree with Jo here. From my own experience, toes and knees have to line up and if they are turned out, the hips should be too. Otherwise the strain on the knees is going to cause serious problems. For myself, I find that slightly turned out is much more comfortable and I get more torque in the buttocks that way.
  • navyrigger46
    navyrigger46 Posts: 1,301 Member
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    Toes out and stand wider than your hips, maybe shoulder width. It'll help you open up your hips and get deeper in your squats.
    This is so wrong it's not even funny- WRONG WRONG WRONG- not because it is not true- but it's backwards.

    People: turn out does not come from the toes.

    You will still goon your knees up by turning your toes out if you lack hip mobility.

    The turn out comes from THE HIP!!!!! You must work hip mobility. Not toe turn out. You'll blow your knee out still if you turn your toe out and the hip doesn't have it to meet.

    If you're hip will not open- your knee- and there for your toe will not safely turn out.

    Straight is perfectly fine if you are comfortable- typically you can generate more torque with a slight turn out- but straight is fine IF you are aware that you need to be shoving those knees out.

    Secondly- squatting and deadlifting are NOTHING alike and while you are "stitting" in both of them- it's totally different and I highly suggest you do some googling OP on techniques- and then video yourself and compare to a good quality video- and or post a form video somewhere and get a critique.

    QFT.

    If your knees dip inward it doesn't matter what your toes are doing, you're still going to hash your knees and ankles. FWIW, I like my toes pointed out slightly, but you have to open the hips if you want to avoid injury.

    Rigger

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