Intermittent fasting noob questions

david_swinstead
david_swinstead Posts: 271 Member
in Food and Nutrition
Hi,

I've been reading quite a bit about IF for a long time now and finally decided to give it a go.

I work out at around 6pm after work, and like the sound of the benefits of working out fasted, so for that reason I'm limiting my eating window to only the few hours in the evening, after my workout, before bed.

If I go to bed at 11 it'll be about 4 hours from getting in from the gym in which I have my eating window.

My question is this: My calorie target under normal circumstances (not doing IF) would be in the region of 2600 calories.

Am I really expected to eat that many calories in the 4 hour window? Or would IF usually involve a lower calorie target?

Cheers - David

Replies

  • stevencloser
    stevencloser Posts: 8,911 Member
    You still have to eat that much yeah.
    You don't have to go to gym fasted. Have a "breakfast" before you go, something small like a bowl of cereal.
  • david_swinstead
    david_swinstead Posts: 271 Member
    I guess dinner every day is gonna be pizza and a protein shake then. Think that's the only way to get that many calories in such a shropt space of time :D



    (I best point out that I'm kidding, before everyone jumps down my throat...)
  • Sarah4fitness
    Sarah4fitness Posts: 437 Member
    Part of why people like IF is because they GET to eat all those calories in a 4 hour period. So yes, that's kind of the point.
    And don't go to the gym fasted, you won't work out as well or as hard. Your body NEEDS fuel to burn doing weights or cardio.
  • david_swinstead
    david_swinstead Posts: 271 Member
    Really? I've read some stuff saying that by working out fasted, this will encourage my body to burn through my body fat to fuel the workout, rather than burning through my last meal if I had eaten.

    Do you disagree with this?

    I'm not asking to be argumentative, I'm genuinely a noob when it comes to IF, just looking to assimilate as much data as possible
  • Sarah4fitness
    Sarah4fitness Posts: 437 Member
    I'm not 100% on the science behind that theory, I'd want to do my own research. With my current knowledge, I'd be more worried about having muscle loss and a crappy workout than whether I was burning "more fat" than after having eating a fueling meal.
    Everyone is different, but when I'm lifting, I NEED fuel, or my workout suffers. I'd rather lift heavier and better on fuel than have (allegedly) more calories burned from fat during said workout, because I'd be burning LESS overall due to lack of energy.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
    Training in a fasted state is much better for you than fuelling up before hand.

    Fasted training improves metabolic performance and helps maintain muscle after endurance exercise (study below).

    Also the longer you can wait to eat post training the better as your body will produce more growth hormone and IGF-1 after your workout and before eating again.

    Good luck.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21132439
  • _benjammin
    _benjammin Posts: 1,224 Member
    Training in a fasted state is much better for you than fuelling up before hand.

    Fasted training improves metabolic performance and helps maintain muscle after endurance exercise (study below).

    Also the longer you can wait to eat post training the better as your body will produce more growth hormone and IGF-1 after your workout and before eating again.

    Good luck.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21132439
    Except that was a steady state cardio study. Strength training benefits of fasted training....YMMV.
    Regardless, I wouldn't jump right into IF with fasted training and a 4 hour window. Try an 8 hour window with fed training, decrease your window over a month or two 'til you end up training fasted and see how you do.
    IF can be used for gaining or losing weight, calories per week will be the determining factor.
  • LAnne16
    LAnne16 Posts: 272 Member
    Personally, if I go to the gym before I eat something, my workout suffers greatly. I can't lift nearly as much and I run out of energy much faster. I'd rather eat something to give me a boost of energy and be able to get a really satisfying workout.
  • david_swinstead
    david_swinstead Posts: 271 Member
    So the main reason not to work out fasted is lower energy?

    In that case I have a pre workout gel. That would help I guess?

    Leaving the office for the gym shortly so I'm about to find out for myself.
  • nenshali
    nenshali Posts: 331 Member
    This is now just a personal experience, I don't have any scientific sources or anything.

    But I used to workout either with an empty stomach, or maximum a small snack like a banana. I will refer now to inline skating. I usually skate for 40-45 minutes, a distance of about 12km.
    Today, I had a bigger breakfast than normal. Oatmeal with egg, Banana, cinnamon and full fat milk.
    Afterwards I went out for skating. Even though I had step- aerobic classes yesterday and my muscles felt quite sore. At first I thought, I would just get in half the routine.

    But I kind of got "into the flow" and I was adding more and more kms to my normal routine. At the end, I was riding 90 minutes instead of 45 and with a distance of over 27 km, I had even doubled what I normally felt capable off!
    And a friend of mine, who is into weight lifting, confirmed that she is always way worse if she didn't eat enough. It can make a difference of 10-20kg (20-40lbs) in her weight lifting, so it's not about a little!

    This is, as I said, just a personal experience but (from now on), I won't train on an empty stomach again. I would recommend you to eat before going training :flowerforyou:
  • aarondnguyen
    aarondnguyen Posts: 270 Member
    Working out fasted blows and isn't worth it in my opinion--unless perhaps you have the time, since weight training on an empty stomach takes about twice as long as it normally would for me if I had eaten prior.

    I still do IF, however. I just do fasted lifting. Leg days are definitely the worst if you don't eat lol
  • SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish
    SoLongAndThanksForAllTheFish Posts: 831 Member
    Hi,

    I've been reading quite a bit about IF for a long time now and finally decided to give it a go.

    I work out at around 6pm after work, and like the sound of the benefits of working out fasted, so for that reason I'm limiting my eating window to only the few hours in the evening, after my workout, before bed.

    If I go to bed at 11 it'll be about 4 hours from getting in from the gym in which I have my eating window.

    My question is this: My calorie target under normal circumstances (not doing IF) would be in the region of 2600 calories.

    Am I really expected to eat that many calories in the 4 hour window? Or would IF usually involve a lower calorie target?

    Cheers - David

    A general rule is that workout at any time is still beneficial, but if you are going in for strength gains, you are not going to get your maximums in for progress if you are pushing a lot of weight. Of course it all depends on body types/size, what amount you are lifting, how adapted you are to exercising fasted and if your goal is gaining/maximums. I've actually gone home just realizing I dont have enough energy in me some days to get near my goal because its been too long since my last meal, but now if it happens I recognize I'm not going to be doing any records and do a workout anyways...anything is better than nothing.
  • liftsforchocolate
    liftsforchocolate Posts: 273
    I'm not sure how long you would be able to keep up the fasted strength training. The bodybuilders I know that do this only do it for cardio, and take some bcaas before.

    When I did if, my window started at 12, usually ate greek yogurt with some nut butters and granola, protein powder before bed, my broats when I woke up at 4am before the gym, and then a huge vegetables, eggs, meat meals around 7am post workout.

    Fasted training is horrible. As well as on super low carb like keto. I don't know how people do it.
  • BreakOnThru
    BreakOnThru Posts: 66 Member
    Everything I've read recommends cardio only in a fasted state, and no more than about 45 mins at a time at that (give or take). I've tried strength training in a fasted state and I get fatigued much faster and I am sore as HELL the next day. I also think the 4-hour window for eating is much too short, if for nothing else than practicality. Why cram that many calories in such a condensed time?

    So...how did it go?
  • a_stronger_me13
    a_stronger_me13 Posts: 812 Member
    Part of why people like IF is because they GET to eat all those calories in a 4 hour period. So yes, that's kind of the point.
    And don't go to the gym fasted, you won't work out as well or as hard. Your body NEEDS fuel to burn doing weights or cardio.

    Fasted training or non fasted training is personal preference. I know plenty of people who work out well and hard and have had amazing progress training fasted. Much like your eating schedule is purely preferential, so is your preworkout fueling. Do what works for you and lets you stick to and meet your goals.
  • itsallpractice
    itsallpractice Posts: 6
    I work out post fast and I've had no issues. In fact, I've found that I'm able to do weight training and even cardio better without food in the system. I guess it depends on what you're hoping to accomplish when doing IF... However, I follow Brad Pilon's ESE method (he has his book available for free, and the science behind it seems pretty legit from the research that I've done) as opposed to the LeanGains method. I dropped 7 lbs in 2 weeks, but that was my desire, to drop weight, because I have a fair amount of muscle underneath all the squishy...

    The Fasting Twins on Youtube (as hilariously goofy as they seem) also have some great advice for people who would prefer to do it LeanGains fashion as opposed to ESE; they also suggest working out fasted; they swear by it actually.

    But do what works for you. That's what Brad Pilon suggests as well. If you feel that you absolutely cannot workout without some food in you, then eat something before. If you're okay, then do without.
  • itsallpractice
    itsallpractice Posts: 6
    Also, someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the science behind IF seems to suggest the following benefits:

    - HGH levels are higher after fasting, making muscle gain easier.
    - Glycogen storage/conversion seems to improve meaning your body processes what you put in better/faster.

    Someone can expand on that if they want to. I understood enough to decide that it was something that would work for me (and I saw a friend drop something like 40 lbs in 3 months) so I was too lazy (irony) to research it beyond a basic understanding.
  • adopp062715
    adopp062715 Posts: 93 Member
    Lots of people have no issues working out fasted. Some actually prefer it. It's all about personal preference. If you are worried about eating all of your calories in such a short window try doing a 16:8 fast instead and maybe working towards a 20:4 fast. Basically you would get two meals to eat all your calories in. I have read a couple of great articles from people who have done this type of fast who lift weights and have seen great results. This guy: http://www.leangains.com/ is a great resource for this type of fasting information. I would suggest looking around on his website and seeing what he has to say. Hope this helps!
  • david_swinstead
    david_swinstead Posts: 271 Member
    Well.

    My first IF week this week has been a dismal failure.

    Monday went well, but Birthday parties on Tuesday/Wednesday have scuppered my plans.

    And today I've had to eat breakfast because I need to take some ibuprofen which I can't do on an empty stomach.

    Guess this week is just a complete write-off. Better luck next week eh!
  • J72FIT
    J72FIT Posts: 6,002 Member
    A major component of fasting is that it should make things easy. To me, this is why it is important to find and eating pattern that works with your lifestyle, schedule and preferences. Why not try IF a la Brad Pilon's Eat Stop Eat. One to two 24 hour fasts per week and the other days eat to maintenance. It is very flexible in it's approach so you will have far less days were you "blow it". You also get some days to train fasted and some days to train fed.
  • itsallpractice
    itsallpractice Posts: 6
    A major component of fasting is that it should make things easy. To me, this is why it is important to find and eating pattern that works with your lifestyle, schedule and preferences. Why not try IF a la Brad Pilon's Eat Stop Eat. One to two 24 hour fasts per week and the other days eat to maintenance. It is very flexible in it's approach so you will have far less days were you "blow it". You also get some days to train fasted and some days to train fed.

    I'm a huge fan of Brad Pilon's approach. I like that IF has made my life easier while also making me healthier. Good stuff.
  • little_firebug
    little_firebug Posts: 22 Member
    I personally enjoy working out in a fasted state. It does seem to take longer to get through my weights and I go easy on the cardio (no more than 45 mins) but I find I feel much better after. I generally avoid eating anything for a few hours before my workout anyway because when I used to run eating would invariably make me ill so I just got used to working out on empty and IF is just another step in that direction. You will find your groove but everything I've read about IF recommends working out in a fasted state so it's worth a try.
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
    I dont eat first thing in the morning do to personal preference. I noticed no difference in weight loss when I switched from eating more frequent meals.

    I would say fasted workouts are personal preference also.

    http://journals.lww.com/nsca-scj/Abstract/2011/02000/Does_Cardio_After_an_Overnight_Fast_Maximize_Fat.3.aspx

    Full text is posted here.
    http://forums.musculardevelopment.com/showthread.php/105668-Nail-in-the-Coffin-of-fasted-cardio

    Shoenfeld article discussing the review above.

    http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/the-myth-of-cardio-before-breakfast-debunked.html

    Another study for reference.
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21411835
    Abstract
    Exercise and nutrition are often used in combination to lose body fat and reduce weight. In this respect, exercise programs are as important as correct nutrition. Several issues are still controversial in this field, and among them there are contrasting reports on whether training in a fasting condition can enhance weight loss by stimulating lipolytic activity. The authors' purpose was to verify differences in fat metabolism during training in fasting or feeding conditions. They compared the effect on oxygen consumption (VO2) and substrate utilization, estimated by the respiratory-exchange ratio (RER), in 8 healthy young men who performed the same moderate-intensity training session (36 min of cardiovascular training on treadmill at 65% maximum heart rate) in the morning in 2 tests in random sequence: FST test (fasting condition) without any food intake or FED test (feeding condition) after breakfast. In both cases, the same total amount and quality of food was assumed in the 24 hr after the training session. The breakfast, per se, increased both VO2 and RER significantly (4.21 vs. 3.74 and 0.96 vs. 0.84, respectively). Twelve hours after the training session, VO2 was still higher in the FED test, whereas RER was significantly lower in the FED test, indicating greater lipid utilization. The difference was still significant 24 hr after exercise. The authors conclude that when moderate endurance exercise is done to lose body fat, fasting before exercise does not enhance lipid utilization; rather, physical activity after a light meal is advisable.
  • Ashes_To_Beast
    Ashes_To_Beast Posts: 378 Member
    I don't know if you've ever heard of Elliott Hulse, But he has a video on youtube about Microfasting. You take Micronutrients throughout the day and eat at night.
    Anyway here's the link, I've never tried it But if I ever try I.F. I'd do it this way.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zemYiYgAicg

    He also has two follow up video's with Q&A

    Cheers

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