True? The first 5 lbs gained disappears instantly on a cut?

2

Replies

  • The_Enginerd
    The_Enginerd Posts: 3,982 Member
    When I started my first bulk, it took about a month for the first 3-4 lbs.

    I just started my first cut a week ago, and *BOOM*, 4 lbs gone.
  • Fithealthyforlife
    Fithealthyforlife Posts: 866 Member
    When I started my first bulk, it took about a month for the first 3-4 lbs.

    I just started my first cut a week ago, and *BOOM*, 4 lbs gone.

    Sounds about right!

    I have had crazy 2-3 lb fluctuations this whole time. Now I know why! I've been riding the border beween full glycogen supply and partially full supply apparently (in other words lean bulk vs real bulk).

    This also explains the strange swings in hunger I've experienced over and over the past few months. I have days where I don't feel hungry at all and have to eat never feeling hunger, and then days where I keep eating and still feel hungry. It's got to be because of this fluctuation in glycogen.

    I feel like 100-300 more calories and I will be good to go!
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member

    Jo,

    Thanks. Your advice is always welcome.

    I'm not a big guy at all...pretty average at 5'9. And weigh less than I want to/did in the past.

    So you think that with what I said in the previous post, increasing again is the way to go?

    And to clarify it wasn't as bad as it sounds (8 lbs total gain/5 real lbs in 7 months). There was at least a 2 month period of no bulking in there, a period where I got sick and lost 3 lbs that I had to gain back , etc.

    But maybe I went about it wrong from the start. The advice was to increase cals until I started to gain at the desired rate. But in hindsight all I did was to increase cals and gain 5 lbs of water and glycogen over the first 7 weeks. I thought I was gaining muscle...apparently not.

    So increase by another hundred at least some days?

    so youre an inch taller than me- over 3000 sounds pretty normal- I'm hitting high 2000's and I'm an inch shorter and a woman- so I would expect you to eat more.

    I am not sure "increase till I see gain" is a good enough way to put it.

    Because that's very vague. I mean "daily" or "weekly" or how often do you increase- for me- I waited and saw gain after 3 weeks- I probably should have had a more generous bulk to start -only because as waldo points out- most people tend to cut themselves short for what they need on a bulk esp first starting. The body uses that and spits some out the "OMG I HAVE MORE ENERGY AND FUEL LET ME BURN IT OFF BY BOUNCING IN MY CHAIR!
    If you've met your goal for the day to bulk and are still hungry, do you eat more or stop?
    It's the same as deficit- you have a target goal for a reason. try to stick with it- some days will be under- some will be over- but as long as the trend line is UP it doesn't matter.
    I have had crazy 2-3 lb fluctuations during this entire bulk. Now I know why. I've been riding the border between lean and regular bulking this whole time!
    most people flux 2-5 lbs within a day anyway- so that could just be normal weigh change- it sounds an awful lot like a faux bulk where you weren't really eating enough to put on appreciable mass. More like high end of maintenance.

    Might be time to go to the drawing board- spend a month or so figuring out what maintenance was and then start bulking for real.
  • Fithealthyforlife
    Fithealthyforlife Posts: 866 Member
    Hey Jo,

    I accidently maintained at 138-139.5 lbs last month for about 4-6 weeks at 2960 calories on non-workout days and 3160 or so on workout days. I would say that's the high end of my real maintenance range, give-or-take.

    Knowing what I now know, I'd say that the most recent increases over the past few weeks are putting me solidly into lean bulk territory now (finally). But it's still not quite enough.

    And this whole time I was wondering why I still looked the same, give-or-take, after gaining 8 lbs (it's because 5 lbs was water/glycogen!) And why I only gained about a pound of fat in 7 months of on and off "bulking" (b/c it wasn't enough food). Now I know!

    But you know something...it was a lot easier to increase calories slowly over time! And I have my maintenance range pretty figured out. So there is a positive side. And hopefully I'm near the end of needing to add 100-200 calories for every 2-3 lbs of gain!
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    You know enough- I'd just start eating 3600 and go for it.
    Work you way up to it if you have to- but you seem to have a solid for what maintenance is- just go for it!

    for allll the gainzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
  • Springfield1970
    Springfield1970 Posts: 1,945 Member
    All the signs are saying eat more and bloody enjoy it. I'm sure you wouldn't go into dirty bulk territory even if you tried!

    Go for it Al! Eat for all of us heehee!

    You'll have no problem with the cut part of things anyway, and you'll look back and wish you'd gone for it more!
  • adam_willard12
    adam_willard12 Posts: 12 Member
    What do your macros look like??
  • jofjltncb6
    jofjltncb6 Posts: 34,415 Member
    Seems consistent with my experience. Of my almost-20 pounds gained over 3-4 months (from memory, but close), I lost 5 pounds in the first 10 days.

    (This is also why people think detoxes/cleanses/carb-restricted diets are so "effective" because they see such quick loss...but then can't understand why they weren't able to sustain the (unsustainable) loss when they resume normal eating.)
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
    I ALWAYS lose 5 pounds in the first few days of a "diet."

    My guess is (and this is strictly personal experience) that if you didn't gain that weight in the first couple of weeks, your body was already holding on to the "water weight." Meaning that if you would have started a cut at the point you started bulking, you would have lost 5 pounds - if you lose it, it's not part of the "new" mass. But your strategy sounds good either way.
  • __freckles__
    __freckles__ Posts: 1,238 Member
    This thread is depressing. I'm on week 7 of my first bulk and I've gained 3-4 lbs. So it's ALL water weight? :grumble:
  • The_1_Who_Knocks
    The_1_Who_Knocks Posts: 343 Member
    I ALWAYS lose 5 pounds in the first few days of a "diet."

    Yeah that's what I was thinking. I don't think it is very complicated. We start eating less and our system has less junk in it. It stays that way till we stop dieting. Then our system gets filled up with stuff again, and it looks like we just gained 5 pounds.

    But not really.
  • Fithealthyforlife
    Fithealthyforlife Posts: 866 Member
    This thread is depressing. I'm on week 7 of my first bulk and I've gained 3-4 lbs. So it's ALL water weight? :grumble:

    Yup. Water and glycogen. You're guilty of the same thing I am.

    And not only that...but if I were to cut right now (which would be stupid as heck) I would likely lose 2-3 lbs of muscle in addition to the 5 lbs and whatever fat I was trying to lose. In other words, I would come out weighing equal or even possibly LESS than I did when I started months ago.
  • DrMAvDPhD
    DrMAvDPhD Posts: 2,097 Member
    Depends on how dirty your bulk is. Or if you cut your carb consumption significantly. Or if you drastically change your calorie intake.

    For me, I went from maintaining/slowly gaining to a very slight daily deficit. I didn't really change my diet (I always eat lower carb/higher fat/high protein) and my weight loss has been slow and steady, no big drop.
  • DrMAvDPhD
    DrMAvDPhD Posts: 2,097 Member
    This thread is depressing. I'm on week 7 of my first bulk and I've gained 3-4 lbs. So it's ALL water weight? :grumble:

    If it all came on very suddenly, yes. If it's been gradual, no. Again, it depends on how drastically you changed your diet.
  • __freckles__
    __freckles__ Posts: 1,238 Member
    This thread is depressing. I'm on week 7 of my first bulk and I've gained 3-4 lbs. So it's ALL water weight? :grumble:

    If it all came on very suddenly, yes. If it's been gradual, no. Again, it depends on how drastically you changed your diet.

    It's been gradual. About 1/2 lb. per week. Also spent a month at maintenance before I started bulking. Bulk is maintenance + 200 cals per day.
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
    If you did maintenance first, then your muscles already resupplied themselves.

    ETA - again, speaking solely from experience. Also...http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/993576-why-you-gain-weight-if-you-eat-more-than-your-cut
  • Fithealthyforlife
    Fithealthyforlife Posts: 866 Member
    Springfield and Jo...thanks!!

    Springfield- I will go for it ALL and eat for all of us! Someday when I have a wife who is pregnant and complains about how much she has to eat, I can tell her I ate about as much when I was bulking! lol.

    Jo- 3600 will prob end up being realistic, at least on exercise days. Since I'm so close, I might as well keep increasing in 100 cal increments.
  • Fithealthyforlife
    Fithealthyforlife Posts: 866 Member
    This thread is depressing. I'm on week 7 of my first bulk and I've gained 3-4 lbs. So it's ALL water weight? :grumble:

    If it all came on very suddenly, yes. If it's been gradual, no. Again, it depends on how drastically you changed your diet.

    It's been gradual. About 1/2 lb. per week. Also spent a month at maintenance before I started bulking. Bulk is maintenance + 200 cals per day.

    Same here. But my weight gain was tracked from when I started eating at or a bit above my MFP estimated maintenance (plus exercise calories). I would say we have a maintenance range rather than a single number...which for a guy appears to be a 400-500 calorie window.

    At least I know I don't have a broken metabolism! Hehe.
  • __freckles__
    __freckles__ Posts: 1,238 Member
    This thread is depressing. I'm on week 7 of my first bulk and I've gained 3-4 lbs. So it's ALL water weight? :grumble:

    If it all came on very suddenly, yes. If it's been gradual, no. Again, it depends on how drastically you changed your diet.

    It's been gradual. About 1/2 lb. per week. Also spent a month at maintenance before I started bulking. Bulk is maintenance + 200 cals per day.

    Same here. But my weight gain was tracked from when I started eating at or a bit above my MFP estimated maintenance (plus exercise calories). I would say we have a maintenance range rather than a single number...which for a guy appears to be a 400-500 calorie window.

    At least I know I don't have a broken metabolism! Hehe.

    How long do you think you'll continue with your bulk? I believe you said you had been going for 7 1/2 months already?
  • Fithealthyforlife
    Fithealthyforlife Posts: 866 Member
    This thread is depressing. I'm on week 7 of my first bulk and I've gained 3-4 lbs. So it's ALL water weight? :grumble:

    If it all came on very suddenly, yes. If it's been gradual, no. Again, it depends on how drastically you changed your diet.

    It's been gradual. About 1/2 lb. per week. Also spent a month at maintenance before I started bulking. Bulk is maintenance + 200 cals per day.

    Same here. But my weight gain was tracked from when I started eating at or a bit above my MFP estimated maintenance (plus exercise calories). I would say we have a maintenance range rather than a single number...which for a guy appears to be a 400-500 calorie window.

    At least I know I don't have a broken metabolism! Hehe.

    How long do you think you'll continue with your bulk? I believe you said you had been going for 7 1/2 months already?

    Until I either reach my first major goal weight or get real fat. Somehow I don't think the latter is going to happen. ;-)

    I started eating maintenance on July 15th or so, and other than a 10-12 week period of not tracking and not eating enough to bulk because I wasn't lifting (so why bother), a 4-week period of being sick with food poisoning and losing 2-4 lbs, and another 4-week period of accidently eating at the high end of maintenance and not gaining (due to improperly estimated exercise burns) last month, I've been gaining about half a pound a week (sometimes more, sometimes less). But I now know that only 3 lbs of that is likely real weight (2 lbs muscle, 1 lb fat).

    Now here's the question. I'm at 140-141 right now. First real major goal weight is a shredded 166 lbs. Does that mean I need to hit 171-176 before cutting? That may take...a while. And I don't really want to "permabulk" either. I hear maintenance needs can raise a LOT over time if you do that (because the body gets used to your intake and burns more off). Best to give the body some breaks, I think.

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