Weight lifting damages the heart, cardiologist said

coccodrillo72
coccodrillo72 Posts: 94 Member
edited November 7 in Fitness and Exercise
Yes, he did really say that. Actually, it was two of them, and they were singing more or less the same song.

But let me step back, so that I can give the whole picture: three weeks ago I had heart surgery, more precisely "Transcatheter ablation for atrial fibrillation". It's not open heart surgery but still not a walk in the park, let me tell you. During the last three years I have been having increasingly frequent episodes of atrial fibrillation so my choice was between medication (with side effects) for the rest of my life and surgery - which has an 80% chance of success. I chose surgery. It's still eary to tell if the atrial fibrillation is cured, only time will tell.

But back to strenght training. After the surgery I asked one of the cardiologists on staff WHEN I would have been able to resume weight lifting (I was doing stronglifts 5x5 up until the operation) and he said that I couldn't, vaguely suggesting that it was not for me. So I asked another cardiologist, who firmly replied: "NEVER!", and then went on telling me that weight lifting may damage the heart, not just MY heart, but ANY heart, and that should be avoided.

That gave me pause. I do not want to blindly accept that answer, but it wouldn't be smart to dismiss such a strong statement, knowing that those cardiologists are surely not incompetent - one of them is on staff in a world renowned heart center.

So I did a little research and found a few articles, but mainly a 2007 statement by the American Heart Association about "Resistance Exercise in Individuals With and Without Cardiovascular Disease".

I'll highlight a few keypoints below but I'd like to know if anyone has more data and/or science based contributions on this topic, that I think it's of paramount importance for everyone who strenght train, with or without heart complications.

A side note: this little adventure of mine showed me the importance of establishing positive habits. When your daily life changes dramatically it's easier to rely on strong habits than on willpower. So I was able to keep logging my meals even when I was stuck on my hospital bed and to resume walking (well, limping is a more accurate description) a few hours after the surgery.

TL;DR: Resistance Training (RT) has many potential benefits even for people with CVD (cardiovascular disease). Excessive BP (blood pressure) elevations have been documented with high-intensity RT (80% to 100% of 1-RM) but such elevations are generally not a concern with low- to moderate-intensity RT performed with correct breathing technique and avoidance of the Valsalva manuever (holding your breath while lifting).

Resistance Exercise in Individuals With and Without Cardiovascular Disease: 2007 Update. A Scientific Statement From the American Heart Association Council on Clinical Cardiology and Council on Nutrition, Physical Activity, and Metabolism
http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/early/2007/07/16/CIRCULATIONAHA.107.185214.citation

From the abstract: "Prescribed and supervised resistance training (RT) enhances muscular strength and endurance, functional
capacity and independence, and quality of life while reducing disability in persons with and without cardiovascular
disease."

So far so good. Then as far as RT is concerned a distinction is made between static (isometric) exercise (no movement of the limb) and Dynamic (isotonic) exercise, which causes movement of the limb.

"During isometric exercise, increases in HR (heart rate) and both SBP (systolic blood pressure) and DBP (diastolic blood pressure) are nearly proportional to the force exerted relative to the greatest possible force that an individual can evoke (percent maximum voluntary contraction [MVC]) rather than the absolute tension developed."

"The combination of vasoconstriction and increased cardiac output results in a disproportionate rise in SBP, DBP, mean BP, and peripheral vascular resistance. These pressures continue to rise throughout the duration of the exercise. Thus, a significant pressure load is imposed on the cardiovascular system, presumably to increase perfusion to the contracting skeletal muscle."

"The impact of the Valsalva maneuver (a forced expiration is invoked against a closed glottis, holding your breath while lifting) and high levels of muscle tension to lift or otherwise move a heavy weight can result in somewhat dramatic changes to the physiological responses to RT. Depending on the duration and intensity of the maneuver and the resistance, an increase in intrathoracic pressure leading to decreased venous return and potentially reduced cardiac output may occur. The physiological responses are an increase in HR to maintain cardiac output and vasoconstriction to maintain BP, which otherwise may decrease with decreasing cardiac output. At the release of the “strain,” venous return is dramatically increased, increasing cardiac output, which is now circulating through a somewhat constricted arterial vascular system. The result is a rise in BP, potentially quite dramatic, that may require minutes to return to baseline."

Now for dynamic (isotonic) exercise there is a: "[...] combined volume and pressure load. The level of the developed pressure load depends on the magnitude of the resistance (percent MVC) required and the duration of the muscle contraction in relation to the intervening rest period. Thus, a smaller pressure load on the cardiovascular system will occur during this type of exercise if the relative resistance is not too great, the contraction period is relatively short (1 to 3 seconds), and there is at least a 1- to 2-second rest period between contractions. The magnitude of the volume load on the cardiovascular system during a dynamic-resistance exercise will be greater when the magnitude of the resistance is relatively low (able to complete 20 to 30 repetitions) and the contractions are performed every few seconds. Specifically, and again depending on the duration and intensity of the resistance exercise, HR can substantially increase and may approach age-predicted maximum, that is, HR achieved with treadmill exercise testing. Blood pressure responses, both systolic and diastolic, may potentially surpass values achieved during standard exercise testing."

"The effects of RT on the cardiovascular system have been studied in individuals with and without CVD and have been summarized in several reviews. The results represent a consensus of findings in which the lack of unanimity is attributable to multiple factors, including specific type, intensity, and duration of RT."

"Studies of cardiac morphology and function have consistently shown that the alterations associated with RT are physiological, although certain cardiac effects exist on a continuum between normal and pathological. Intensive RT characteristically increases left ventricular (LV) wall thickness and mass, with little or no change in LV diameter. Although statistically significant, the increase in wall thickness is modest, and values are generally in the upper range of untrained, normal subjects."

Safety of RT

"Both research findings and clinical experience indicate that resistance exercise is relatively safe. [...] Although excessive BP elevations have been documented with high-intensity RT, for example, 80% to 100% of 1-RM performed to exhaustion, such elevations are generally not a concern with low- to moderate-intensity RT performed with correct breathing technique and avoidance of the Valsalva manuever."

"The use of resistance testing and training in moderate- to high-risk cardiac patients requires good clinical judgment and close monitoring. Studies in healthy adults and low-risk cardiac patients, that is, persons without resting or exercise-induced evidence of myocardial ischemia, severe LV dysfunction, or complex ventricular dysrhythmias, have reported no major adverse cardiovascular events. RT also appears to be safe among patients with controlled hypertension, and intra-arterial BPs during weight lifting in cardiac patients are reported to be within a clinically acceptable range at 40% and 60% of 1-RM."

"The application of RT in the rehabilitation of patients with CHD has been reviewed. [...] The absence of anginal symptoms, ischemic ST-segment depression, abnormal hemodynamics, complex ventricular dysrhythmias, and cardiovascular complications suggests that strength testing and training are safe for clinically stable men with CHD who are actively participating in a supervised rehabilitation program."

"Vigorous or high-intensity RT should not be initiated for persons without prior exposure to more moderate resistance exercise independently of age, health status, or fitness level. "

Absolute and Relative Contraindications to Resistance Training

Absolute:

Unstable CHD
Decompensated HF
Uncontrolled arrhythmias
Severe pulmonary hypertension (mean pulmonary arterial pressure >55 mm Hg)
Severe and symptomatic aortic stenosis
Acute myocarditis, endocarditis, or pericarditis
Uncontrolled hypertension (>180/110 mm Hg)
Aortic dissection
Marfan syndrome
High-intensity RT (80% to 100% of 1-RM) in patients with active proliferative retinopathy or moderate or worse nonproliferative diabetic retinopathy

Relative (should consult a physician before participation):

Major risk factors for CHD
Diabetes at any age
Uncontrolled hypertension (>160/>100 mm Hg)
Low functional capacity (<4 METs)
Musculoskeletal limitations
Individuals who have implanted pacemakers or defibrillators
«13

Replies

  • Papaepic
    Papaepic Posts: 12 Member
    No big surprises, but great info. thanks
  • BlueBombers
    BlueBombers Posts: 4,064 Member
    I guess I'm screwed then.
  • corgarian
    corgarian Posts: 366 Member
    I'll take my chances
  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,661 Member
    wonder how the hearts of the group that sat on their *kitten* thier whole life looked like
  • Sarah4fitness
    Sarah4fitness Posts: 437 Member
    So two guys vs. every other health expert out there. Sounds like a great reason for me to stop lifting, and just take raspberry ketones to ensure my health.
  • raven_ous
    raven_ous Posts: 223
    Yeah well could you tell them that since taking up weight training I have been taken off both beta-blockers and blood pressure medication, also my resting heart rate used to be between 109-145bpm now it sits between 53-60bpm I also used to suffer from hypertension with a blood pressure that was bordering on killing me, now it is 120/80.

    I read the info but is hard for me to verify as a layman but I think I got the gist.

    As with all exercise it is best to proceed with caution and intelligence.

    Good thread.
  • This content has been removed.
  • molonlabe762
    molonlabe762 Posts: 411 Member
    bump
  • kimbux
    kimbux Posts: 154 Member
    Everything has risk.... including waking up in the morning. I will take my chances!
  • Cranquistador
    Cranquistador Posts: 39,744 Member
    meh.
  • Dalker
    Dalker Posts: 44 Member
    Correct me if I'm wrong but this evidence suggests that resistance training spikes blood pressure.

    Is there actually any evidence to suggest that it is implicated in causing damage to heart leading to clinical illness?
  • Leadfoot_Lewis
    Leadfoot_Lewis Posts: 1,623 Member
    wonder how the hearts of the group that sat on their *kitten* thier whole life looked like

    EXACTLY.
  • kjo9692
    kjo9692 Posts: 430 Member
    Hmmm... Interesting. They are referring to physiological responses to lifting, but it seems a bit dramatized. It's like saying that if you squat, since your muscles are contracted, you'll get cramps because your blood vessels are also going to contract. It doesn't work that way though. They are talking about how the BP increases, but even cardiovascular exercises do this, and even more. It's just a temporary thing that comes with any exercise that accelerates your heart rate. When you are going to have your BP measured your physician suggests that you do so at a moment that you are relaxed, and have not performed any sort of exercise prior to this, they don't suggest that you DON'T exercise at all, because everyone is aware that it increases your heart rate, but it doesn't mean that it's bad for you as long as you do so in a safe way (correct form, etc.).

    I'm sure many of the people who lift will beg to differ.

    IDK LOL.
  • baileysmom4
    baileysmom4 Posts: 242 Member
    I had cardiac ablation for Supraventricular Tachycardia and my doctor never ever said anything like that! I would think that unless you have high blood pressure there would be no issues with ST.

    Give the surgery a month before you can tell if it worked. My heart fluttered about like mad for a month and I thought he made it worse! I went on to lose 30 pounds after my surgery and I'm still here!
  • skullshank
    skullshank Posts: 4,323 Member
    oh well.

    i'd rather die doing what i love than be a scared sedentary bag of mush.
  • WakkoW
    WakkoW Posts: 567 Member
    I just read something yesterday about how too much running will kill you and make your **** fall off (if you have one).

    Okay, I'm exaggerating... slightly.

    Let's see. I'm in my early 40's. Been running for about 20 years now and lifting weights for a good 18 years.

    Hmmm... I guess I should be pricing out coffins?

    At least my corpse will look fabulous.
  • RabbitLost
    RabbitLost Posts: 333 Member
    Yeah well could you tell them that since taking up weight training I have been taken off both beta-blockers and blood pressure medication, also my resting heart rate used to be between 109-145bpm now it sits between 53-60bpm I also used to suffer from hypertension with a blood pressure that was bordering on killing me, now it is 120/80.

    I read the info but is hard for me to verify as a layman but I think I got the gist.

    As with all exercise it is best to proceed with caution and intelligence.

    Good thread.

    "As with all exercise it is best to proceed with caution and intelligence" - I see a hypertension specialist and he cautioned me on significant weight training until I got my BP under control through cardio. He lectures around the world and has published several peer reviewed studies, so I took him at his word. After about a year, I didn't lose much weight, but my BP came down. He lowered me medicine and cleared me for moderate weight lifting and continued cardio. About a year ago, I go below obese BFI and he dropped my BP medicine to a maintenance mode (mine is likely genetic) and cleared me for normal weight lifting (i.e. not competitive) and rigorous cardio routine.

    Moral of the story - if you trust your doctor, work with you doctor. If you don't trust your doctor, fire him/her and get a new one. I've done it before and it saved my life. Even wrote a bog about it.

    But the key is proper, qualified medical supervision if you have any doubts. And agree - good thread.
  • _HeartsOnFire_
    _HeartsOnFire_ Posts: 5,304 Member
    Food can be bad for your heart.
    Walking down the street can be bad for your life.
    Riding an airplane can be bad.

    Sorry but I'm sure the benefits outweigh the tiny risk of it damaging.


    If you live your life scared to do things you may love, you might as well just stay home in a fetal position.
  • yo_andi
    yo_andi Posts: 2,178 Member
    "Both research findings and clinical experience indicate that resistance exercise is relatively safe. [...] Although excessive BP elevations have been documented with high-intensity RT, for example, 80% to 100% of 1-RM performed to exhaustion, such elevations are generally not a concern with low- to moderate-intensity RT performed with correct breathing technique and avoidance of the Valsalva manuever."

    "The use of resistance testing and training in moderate- to high-risk cardiac patients requires good clinical judgment and close monitoring. Studies in healthy adults and low-risk cardiac patients, that is, persons without resting or exercise-induced evidence of myocardial ischemia, severe LV dysfunction, or complex ventricular dysrhythmias, have reported no major adverse cardiovascular events. RT also appears to be safe among patients with controlled hypertension, and intra-arterial BPs during weight lifting in cardiac patients are reported to be within a clinically acceptable range at 40% and 60% of 1-RM."

    Baiting subject line is baiting.
  • raven_ous
    raven_ous Posts: 223
    oh well.

    i'd rather die doing what i love than be a scared sedentary bag of mush.
    QFT

    Also don't die, we loves you:love:
  • jwdieter
    jwdieter Posts: 2,582 Member
    Good post, OP. Interesting read.
  • BigGuy47
    BigGuy47 Posts: 1,768 Member

    "Both research findings and clinical experience indicate that resistance exercise is relatively safe.
    Got it.
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,267 Member
    eh time for a 3rd opinion...

    you know what they call a cardiologist who graduated last in his class a cardiologist...
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
    I got an email from Medhi (Stronglifts) that spoke to the pressure on the heart when you take a deep breath, hold it through the bottom of the move and then slowly release it on the way out.

    He still recommends the practice as he argues that the heart builds endurance over time. I can see that this might cause problems in people with a condition.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
    ...weight lifting may damage the heart, not just MY heart, but ANY heart, and that should be avoided.

    An old joke...

    Q: What do Soviet olympic weightlifters from the 60s and 70s all have in common?
    A: They're all dead.
  • QueenBishOTUniverse
    QueenBishOTUniverse Posts: 14,121 Member
    I only had time to speed read, but this didn't seem all that surprising. I can tell just from my body's response that my BP spikes significantly during the lift, but given that my BP was 102/76 when it was measured a little over a month ago, I should be ok. I could see where years of EXTREME stress on the heart from lifting at an Olympic level most of your life might cause an issue, and I think certainly if you have other risk factors you will need to monitor more closely, but it seems like for the average healthy adult with normal BP etc. this is mostly a non-issue.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    Hmmm... Interesting. They are referring to physiological responses to lifting, but it seems a bit dramatized. It's like saying that if you squat, since your muscles are contracted, you'll get cramps because your blood vessels are also going to contract. It doesn't work that way though. They are talking about how the BP increases, but even cardiovascular exercises do this, and even more. It's just a temporary thing that comes with any exercise that accelerates your heart rate. When you are going to have your BP measured your physician suggests that you do so at a moment that you are relaxed, and have not performed any sort of exercise prior to this, they don't suggest that you DON'T exercise at all, because everyone is aware that it increases your heart rate, but it doesn't mean that it's bad for you as long as you do so in a safe way (correct form, etc.).

    I'm sure many of the people who lift will beg to differ.

    IDK LOL.

    During cardiovascular exercise, systolic BP can increase substantially, but Diastolic BP usually lowers significantly. The result is that Mean Arterial Pressure MAP increases only modestly, if at all. During heavy lifting, both SBP and DBP can increase a lot, resulting in a substantial increase in MAP. In addition, the surge in HR following the lift as the body redistributes blood and normalizes pressures substantially increases the workload on the heart muscle.

    The responses to heavy lifting and cardio are substantially different, which is why you can't use the response to one to explain or dismiss the significance of the response to the other.

    As the guidelines clearly state, in younger individuals and those without a history of heart disease, these reactions can be tolerated without any problem. However those in the higher risk category are ....well... At higher risk. "Higher risk" does NOT mean " can never,ever, think of doing it". It means that caution must be exercised and increases in weight/intensity need to be gradual.

    Rather than being "dramatized" the information presented provides a very clear description of the physiologic responses. I understand that someone without a background in the subject might find it a bit unwieldy, but that doesn't make it any less accurate.

    FWIW, the description also explains, as I have done on many occasions, why HRMs are (even more) useless for tracking calories during strength training and why the elevated heart rate during heavy lifting is NOT an indicator of concurrent aerobic training.

    But I'm still puzzled why two cardiologists would either ignore or be so ignorant of their own professional standards. I could understand why they would want to be conservative and cautious following the OPs ablation, but to apply that to the general population is really misguided.
  • coccodrillo72
    coccodrillo72 Posts: 94 Member
    Hmmm... Interesting. They are referring to physiological responses to lifting, but it seems a bit dramatized. It's like saying that if you squat, since your muscles are contracted, you'll get cramps because your blood vessels are also going to contract. It doesn't work that way though. They are talking about how the BP increases, but even cardiovascular exercises do this, and even more. It's just a temporary thing that comes with any exercise that accelerates your heart rate. [...]

    During cardiovascular exercise, systolic BP can increase substantially, but Diastolic BP usually lowers significantly. The result is that Mean Arterial Pressure MAP increases only modestly, if at all. During heavy lifting, both SBP and DBP can increase a lot, resulting in a substantial increase in MAP. In addition, the surge in HR following the lift as the body redistributes blood and normalizes pressures substantially increases the workload on the heart muscle.

    The responses to heavy lifting and cardio are substantially different, which is why you can't use the response to one to explain or dismiss the significance of the response to the other. [...]

    Exactly. To further clarify (I hope):

    1) Dynamic aerobic exercise imposes primarily a volume load on the cardiovascular system, including the heart. Modest increase in mean pressure.

    2) Isometric exercise (limbs not moving, RT has an isometric component) cause a disproportionate rise in SBP, DBP, mean BP (blood pressure), and peripheral vascular resistance.These pressures continue to rise throughout the duration of the exercise. Thus, a significant pressure load is imposed on the cardiovascular system.

    The impact of holding your breath and high levels of muscle tension to lift can result in somewhat dramatic changes to the physiological responses to RT.

    At the release of the “strain,” venous return is dramatically increased. The result is a rise in BP, potentially quite dramatic, that may require minutes to return to baseline. During heavy resistance exercise and especially if accompanied by the Valsalva maneuver (holding your breath), symptoms of lightheadedness or dizziness may occur. With relaxation, individuals may experience headache while pressure remains elevated. In patients with heart disease, symptoms of myocardial ischemia may ensue as a result of elevated BP and increased myocardial work.

    3) When heavy dynamic-resistance exercise (strength exercise) such as lifting weights is performed, the cardiovascular responses are a combination of the responses that occur during both dynamic-aerobic exercise and isometric exercise, reflecting a combined volume and pressure load.

    According to the AHA these loads are accetable in a healthy person, but they advise against the Valsalva maneuver (holding your breath) while lifting - even in healty subjects - and never recommend high intensity RT (80% to 100% of 1-RM performed to exhaustion - yep, I'm thinking of my stronglifts 5x5 routine) - again, even in healty subjects - due to the dramatic increase of the pressure load imposed on the cardiovascular system.

    Edited for typos
  • coccodrillo72
    coccodrillo72 Posts: 94 Member
    Correct me if I'm wrong but this evidence suggests that resistance training spikes blood pressure.

    Is there actually any evidence to suggest that it is implicated in causing damage to heart leading to clinical illness?

    I found little data about this. Generally RT is considered safe by the AHA (but they advise against holding your breath while lifting and never recommend high intensity RT, as I wrote above).

    From the statement: "Studies of cardiac morphology and function have consistently shown that the alterations associated with RT are physiological, although certain cardiac effects exist on a continuum between normal and pathological."

    "Intensive RT characteristically increases left ventricular (LV) wall thickness and mass, with little or no change in LV diameter. Although statistically significant, the increase in wall thickness is modest, and values are generally in the upper range of untrained, normal subjects."

    "In contrast to the increase in central arterial compliance associated with aerobic training, the effects of RT on this parameter have varied. Central arterial compliance was unaltered by whole-body RT in a prospective study of young healthy men. In contrast, an increase in arterial stiffness with RT has been demonstrated in the aorta and carotid arteries in association with an augmented central pulse pressure. In these studies, peripheral SBP was mildly increased but in the normal range, and DBP and mean BP were normal. Although it has been suggested that increased stiffness of large arteries may be an adaptation to obviate excessive expansion during severe isometric activity, the clinical implications of this finding are currently unclear. In summary, the influence of RT on both peripheral and central arterial compliance remains inconsistent and controversial at this time."
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
    Mark Rippetoe has some interesting things to say about some of this stuff

    my thoughts on the idea that lifting heavy things damages the heart is how we managed to survive the palaeolithic era? and how did the neanderthals survive 300,000+ years.... they wouldn't have evolved such big muscles or an anatomy/morphology that seems uncannily well suited for deadlifting if lifting heavy things hadn't been essential to their survival
This discussion has been closed.