Body recomp...how to start?

fitkatb
fitkatb Posts: 14 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
I have spent my life the last few years chasing a number. 145. But the closer I get to it, the more I realize that it is not looking like I want it to look...and being that I'm 5'-6 and a D-cup, probably that number is a little low. Once upon a time I had a personal trainer and when she calculated my muscle mass and BF%, she said my ideal weight was 161. Currently I'm 157 and I'm thinking of switching to body recomposition instead of focusing on "weight loss". I've lost weight primarily by maintaining a deficit, and I'm certain I've done this at the expense of some muscle. I've been looking at recomp and I'm a little intimidated by the idea. I don't want to do it wrong. This is how I THINK it works....please tell me if I'm wrong.

Eat at maintenance. Lift heavy. Get 0.7-1 gram of protein a day/pound of lean muscle mass.

What constitutes "heavy"? Can this be accomplished using weight machines or body weight exercises or do I need the free weights?

Thanks in advance for your input.

Replies

  • mschicagocubs
    mschicagocubs Posts: 774 Member
    I started a beginners strength training about a month ago..

    I'm bumping to sneak a peek at what advice people give you :)
  • jcolier
    jcolier Posts: 64
    What constitutes "heavy"? Can this be accomplished using weight machines or body weight exercises or do I need the free weights?

    "Heavy", for building muscle, typically describes the amount of weight you can lift up to 8 or 10 times. Once you can lift a certain weight 10 times, move to a higher weight. This can mean free weights, machines, or body weight. Of course its difficult to add weight when you are doing body weight exercises, but they are still a great way to gain muscle!

    Start at the lowest weight for an exercise, and work your way up doing sets of 10 until you get stuck at 6 / 7, then that is the weight you want to work with until you can get it 10 times.
  • mschicagocubs
    mschicagocubs Posts: 774 Member
    What constitutes "heavy"? Can this be accomplished using weight machines or body weight exercises or do I need the free weights?

    "Heavy", for building muscle, typically describes the amount of weight you can lift up to 8 or 10 times. Once you can lift a certain weight 10 times, move to a higher weight. This can mean free weights, machines, or body weight. Of course its difficult to add weight when you are doing body weight exercises, but they are still a great way to gain muscle!

    Start at the lowest weight for an exercise, and work your way up doing sets of 10 until you get stuck at 6 / 7, then that is the weight you want to work with until you can get it 10 times.

    Thank you! That really helped me. I have been doing some exercises with reps of 10-12, not super easy, but I can obviously do them all. I was wondering when was the time I should go up and try with a heavier weight.

    Would you recommend that I do 3/4 sets? Or do one set at the next level and go back down to the one you can do 10-12 at?
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,865 Member
    What constitutes "heavy"? Can this be accomplished using weight machines or body weight exercises or do I need the free weights?

    You will get the most benefit and bang for your buck lifting "heavy" with free weights. "Heavy" refers primarily to the rep range..the actual weight is going to be relative to the individual. A heavy weight to me is going to be jack **** to a guy who's been power lifting for 5 years, etc.

    Generally for optimized strength, you're looking at the 1-5 rep range with "heavy" being the weight you would use for which you are very close to failure on your last reps. I personally recommend a strength program vs a hypertrophy program (8-10 rep range) for beginners as I feel it is optimal to build a good foundation of strength first and foremost...from there you can branch of in any direction you choose as you become more advanced. I personally do a hybrid at this point that has me working in various rep ranges over the course of a 4 week training cycle, but I've been lifting for awhile.

    I highly recommend doing an established routine and I recommend a full body routine vs a split as you are a beginner...a split is likely going to give you unnecessary volume that can interfere with your gains as a noob. Routine should emphasize the big compound lifts (squats, bench press, dead-lift, overhead press, and pendlay rows). Accessory and assistance work should be pretty minimal to start out...again, too much volume can interfere with your gains. Accessory work becomes necessary as you advance, but really isn't necessary at all when you're new to lifting. At most I would say maybe some pull-ups and dips and that's about it from an accessory standpoint.

    Look into programs like Starting Strength (Mark Rippetoe), Strong Lifts 5x5, New Rules of Lifting for Women, etc. New Rules is actually a good read even if you don't do the program. My wife did Starting Strength with me and then did a couple cycles of Wendler's 5/3/1 with me before doing New Rules. She has enjoyed New Rules, but is going back to Wendler's 5/3/1 program when she's done with that one...she prefers the power type lifting. These programs will tell you what to do, when to do it, when to increase weights, etc. You should always be trying to lift more...that's how you get the training response. If you're lifting the same weight all of the time, you're not going to get a training response from your body.

    Also, give this a read...

    http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/
  • fitkatb
    fitkatb Posts: 14 Member
    Yes! I've read about Staci before. That's where I started to get the idea I needed to change it up. I LOOOOOVE the idea of eating more and getting smaller. :D I've ordered a couple of the books you recommended too. Anybody have any recommendations on nutrition? If I am eating "at maintenance", is that eating my TDEE? Or should I do a slight cut, maybe 200 calories below TDEE while I'm trying to build?

    Thanks!
  • mschicagocubs
    mschicagocubs Posts: 774 Member
    Thanks Cwolfman! You put it perfectly!

    I gathered a workout routine from a few different programs (some of which you mentioned) to get me started, but like you said I was doing the 10-12 rep thing.

    Last night I switched it up and went for 8 reps, starting with the weight I could do 6 and the last two I struggled.

    But I am going to keep pushing!! :)
  • mrslcoop
    mrslcoop Posts: 317 Member
    Bumping to bookmark.
  • ElliottTN
    ElliottTN Posts: 1,614 Member
    Couple things to consider

    Do you know what your caloric maintenance level is? Not what some website told you as they are most often times far off in either direction. If you don't probably need to figure that out first or else you will be wondering what the hell is going on after a few months.

    Do you know your daily/weekly weight fluctuations. Probably need to take notes when you start this process so once again you are not freaking out when you step on the scale and overnight you gained 2 lbs.

    Do you know what the difference is between power lifting and body building?

    Not to turn you off by asking these questions, I just want anyone who is thinking about body recomp to consider these few things and really educate because body recomp is not quick nor easy. Throw out the cals in vs cal logic, it is no longer that simple, macros matter now. Throw out the idea that meal timing does not matter, it does now. Throw out the idea that you are going to loose a lb a week or notice a huge difference from week to week.

    and to not sell you short with warning and doom saying. To answer a few questions you posted:

    Do you have to use free weights? Nope, you can use machines and be fine. HOWEVER it will be a much more efficient use of your time to use free weights.

    Lifting heavy: It is lifting heavy for you not just heavy.
    Think of it this way with rep ranges.
    Shoot for 4-5 sets with a rep range of 5-8. You should be really REALLY struggling on those last sets. If you can't get at least 5 reps out then you need to consider dropping weight. If you can go above 8 reps then you need to add more weight. It can take a few times in the gym to really dial in your starting weight, don't get discouraged. Bring a notebook and write EVERYTHING down. Trust me on this one. As for the comment so one made about 10+ reps. Nada. You would be breaking into what is called hypertrophy training at that point. Which would be really great for adding mass if you are running a clear caloric surplus but that is not the case with what you are trying to do.
  • mschicagocubs
    mschicagocubs Posts: 774 Member
    Thanks Elliot! I'm not sure if OP is still reading, but I am! :)
  • animalldy
    animalldy Posts: 140 Member
    Bump- very helpful!
  • fitkatb
    fitkatb Posts: 14 Member
    I'm still here. I am VERY aware of my weight fluctuations. I weigh daily so I'm not whigged out about a little wiggle. I am slowly upping my calories to try to find my maintenance level. I have been at around 1500 calories for a while. I have nudged up to 1700 calories this week and I'm watching that scale.

    I don't have any delusions that this will be easy or fast. That is why I have been dragging my feet about attempting it for so long. But I am tired of watching the scale and being disappointed with what that number looks like naked. lol

    What would be the ideal (or at least a good place to start) as far as macros go?

    You're advise is just what I was looking for. Thanks Elliot!
  • mschicagocubs
    mschicagocubs Posts: 774 Member
    I am trying to ween myself off of eating so many carbs.

    Currently I am doing 40% Carb, 30% protein, 30% fat...

    I have been doing that for about 3 weeks now.

    Not sure if that is ideal for recomp
  • ElliottTN
    ElliottTN Posts: 1,614 Member
    The most common starting place I've seen people use is a 40/40/20 split then they taper it more towards their specific habits so it is more sustainable over the recomp long haul. I personally don't believe you need to be at that high of the spectrum with protein, in fact I really don't believe you should put a percentage on protein at all but there are other way more experienced and successful than me that believe you should so take my opinion for what it is worth.
  • mschicagocubs
    mschicagocubs Posts: 774 Member
    The most common starting place I've seen people use is a 40/40/20 split then they taper it more towards their specific habits so it is more sustainable over the recomp long haul. I personally don't believe you need to be at that high of the spectrum with protein, in fact I really don't believe you should put a percentage on protein at all but there are other way more experienced and successful than me that believe you should so take my opinion for what it is worth.

    I have calculated it so that it is 1 g per 1 lb lbm... just happen to be about 30% for me. 106 grams is my total.
  • fitkatb
    fitkatb Posts: 14 Member
    Is that 40/40/20 Protein/Fat/Carb? I'm currently getting 30/55/15. It's not my specific macro goals, that is just how my numbers come out. I like bacon. :) And my cholesterol has never been better. But I should probably find a few more carbs to be friendly with to get that fat number down a bit. :\
  • lrmall01
    lrmall01 Posts: 377 Member
    What constitutes "heavy"? Can this be accomplished using weight machines or body weight exercises or do I need the free weights?

    More food for thought regarding "heavy".

    Keep in mind that this is a moving target. What is heavy today will be light tomorrow. Different programs choose to add weight in different intervals but any good program will add weight over time.

    Good luck - you seem to be on the right path!
  • timbrom
    timbrom Posts: 303 Member
    Read this: http://barbellmedicine.com/2012/07/29/584/

    The calorie goals will seem a little high, but don't underestimate the number of calories you need to support heavy lifting.

    For programs, definitely look into Starting Strength.
  • paprikas
    paprikas Posts: 118 Member
    mmm bump. very interesting
  • Kimsoontobe
    Kimsoontobe Posts: 110 Member
    Bump
  • Nickle526
    Nickle526 Posts: 239 Member
    bump to save for later.

    Right now I am training for a marathon in September. It has done me a world of good to have an actual program and goal. I was thinking yesterday during my long run that I want to have another goal to jump into after the Marathon. I think recomp just might be the thing to work on through fall and winter :)
  • spider06c
    spider06c Posts: 67 Member
    bump for later
  • Mistraal1981
    Mistraal1981 Posts: 453 Member
    In
  • mycupyourcake
    mycupyourcake Posts: 279 Member
    Couple things to consider

    Do you know what your caloric maintenance level is? Not what some website told you as they are most often times far off in either direction. If you don't probably need to figure that out first or else you will be wondering what the hell is going on after a few months.

    Do you know your daily/weekly weight fluctuations. Probably need to take notes when you start this process so once again you are not freaking out when you step on the scale and overnight you gained 2 lbs.

    Do you know what the difference is between power lifting and body building?

    Not to turn you off by asking these questions, I just want anyone who is thinking about body recomp to consider these few things and really educate because body recomp is not quick nor easy. Throw out the cals in vs cal logic, it is no longer that simple, macros matter now. Throw out the idea that meal timing does not matter, it does now. Throw out the idea that you are going to loose a lb a week or notice a huge difference from week to week.

    and to not sell you short with warning and doom saying. To answer a few questions you posted:

    Do you have to use free weights? Nope, you can use machines and be fine. HOWEVER it will be a much more efficient use of your time to use free weights.

    Lifting heavy: It is lifting heavy for you not just heavy.
    Think of it this way with rep ranges.
    Shoot for 4-5 sets with a rep range of 5-8. You should be really REALLY struggling on those last sets. If you can't get at least 5 reps out then you need to consider dropping weight. If you can go above 8 reps then you need to add more weight. It can take a few times in the gym to really dial in your starting weight, don't get discouraged. Bring a notebook and write EVERYTHING down. Trust me on this one. As for the comment so one made about 10+ reps. Nada. You would be breaking into what is called hypertrophy training at that point. Which would be really great for adding mass if you are running a clear caloric surplus but that is not the case with what you are trying to do.

    Hi there, I've been following this thread with interest. Can you explain what you mean by meal timing being important during a recomp?
  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,267 Member
    What constitutes "heavy"? Can this be accomplished using weight machines or body weight exercises or do I need the free weights?

    "Heavy", for building muscle, typically describes the amount of weight you can lift up to 8 or 10 times. Once you can lift a certain weight 10 times, move to a higher weight. This can mean free weights, machines, or body weight. Of course its difficult to add weight when you are doing body weight exercises, but they are still a great way to gain muscle!

    Start at the lowest weight for an exercise, and work your way up doing sets of 10 until you get stuck at 6 / 7, then that is the weight you want to work with until you can get it 10 times.

    No...

    Heavy is defined by the number of reps typically max of 5. There are many programs already written for this esp for women such as Starting Strength, New rules of lifting for women or Strong lifts 5x5 http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/560459-stronglifts-5x5-summary which is free.

    These programs are very clear.

    For SL you start with an empty 45lb bar for all exercises except the Deadlift which you start at 90lbs. Each session you do 5x5 and if you succeed you up the weight by 5lbs for all exercises except DL where you add 10.

    This is not on machines it is free weights.

    For a recomp you eat at maintenance (which can be tricky to find if you haven't tracked accurately) but you can find it by trial and error.

    It is a very slow process...and takes patience and watching macros which imho are based on your personal stats, based on BF% and your maitenance.

    I personally have mine set at 45/30/25.

    For me I want 20-22% BF...puts me at about 149-153lbs if my current BF% is 25% (waiting on an evaluation)
  • jstout365
    jstout365 Posts: 1,686 Member
    http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/ --- this is where I most often go for body recomp info. Some people don't like the guy, but I find many of the articles informative and he covers training, nutrition, fat loss, and muscle gain.

    Alan Aragon is another good person to follow: http://www.alanaragonblog.com/ --- he does a lot of research reviews and has some great info.

    Body recomp is a slow process in general because it is hitting in the middle of the road between effective muscle mass gain and fat loss which is why many people do the bulk/cut cycles.
  • scooterjay_wwis
    scooterjay_wwis Posts: 120 Member
    I have found the StrongLifts5x5 program is a good way begin to lift heavy as a beginner.
    it's 3 days a week, so it's easy to commit to, and only takes about an hour to complete the whole routine.
    No need to spend hours in the gym.
    which ever you choose...GOOD LUCK..
  • Will_Thrust_For_Candy
    Will_Thrust_For_Candy Posts: 6,109 Member
    What wolfman, elliott, and jstout have said.

    The only thing that I disagree with is the meal timing that elliott talked about. In my experiece, macros do matter however meal timing does not.

    OP you are in a great position to start this process. It sounds like you have a great idea of what your maintenance calories will be and since you aren't overly concerned about seeing the scale fluctuate you will be able to put that bish away for a bit and just focus on training.

    As for your macro split, you really have to do what works for you. Again, in my experience, it was very good to have a high protein goal as it got me into the habit of eating a lot of protein, now though I find that I am able to manipulate the numbers to what suits me the best and to what I'm training for (lifting or running).

    Good luck!
  • judyde
    judyde Posts: 401 Member
    Following...
  • Rose6300
    Rose6300 Posts: 232 Member
    What constitutes "heavy"? Can this be accomplished using weight machines or body weight exercises or do I need the free weights?

    "Heavy", for building muscle, typically describes the amount of weight you can lift up to 8 or 10 times. Once you can lift a certain weight 10 times, move to a higher weight. This can mean free weights, machines, or body weight. Of course its difficult to add weight when you are doing body weight exercises, but they are still a great way to gain muscle!

    Start at the lowest weight for an exercise, and work your way up doing sets of 10 until you get stuck at 6 / 7, then that is the weight you want to work with until you can get it 10 times.

    No...

    Actually, yes. To build muscle (size), the rep range is 8ish-10ish. To build strength, it's 5. Take a look at this, which explains it very well. http://en.reddit.com/r/gainit/comments/1bly8t/strength_size_and_the_truth_about_rep_ranges/

    Having said that though, it is better to start out with a strength training program before attempting hyptertrophy.

    In terms of eating, women should eat maybe 200-350 calories above maintenance. Can't find a link right away, but it's on Lyle McDonald's site. Here's a general article on gaining muscle from his site. http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/general-philosophies-of-muscle-mass-gain.html

    Good luck!

Categories