Looking for advice from "all or nothing kind of people"
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snufs
Posts: 78
I'm such an all or nothing kind of girl - I either eat no sweets at all or indulge like there was no tomorrow. Honestly, I don't even know why I sometimes let myself eat the way I do since I know it won't do me any good. I can't seem to let myself have just one single cookie, I have to have like five or six or seven. "I haven't had one for so long", "Why couldn't I have a few cookies?" et are my favorite things to tell myself. And even though I'm full I just keep on eating since "I'll start tomorrow".
Anyone who can relate to this? If so, please tell me how upu overcame it, what you tell yourself in times like these or whatever. I'd really appreciate it! I know no one but me can keep me frpm eating it, but thoughts from other would be helpful.
Anyone who can relate to this? If so, please tell me how upu overcame it, what you tell yourself in times like these or whatever. I'd really appreciate it! I know no one but me can keep me frpm eating it, but thoughts from other would be helpful.
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Replies
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I had the same problem post-eating disorder a few years ago, and it lasted quite a long time. I still think in an 'all or nothing way' at times, but I've gotten better at it. If you slip a little bit, you just have to accept it. The reason I got into thinking all or nothing was if I slipped, I took it as I already messed up, so why not eat more. I've heard the advice,'if you drop your phone, would you continue stomping it into the ground?' It's okay not to be 100% perfect everyday, but continuing to eat more out of guilt in messing up won't make things better. I think it mostly just depends on time. You have to practice like with anything else.0
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Its happening to you because you are staying away from something that you like. You should never stay away from foods you like because when you have a chance to eat them your body goes crazy and thinks its not going to see it again, which will make you binge over and over again. Why dont you eat your cookies though?0
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I am in ED recovery and there are still many foods I can't manage in my house.
However, I am gradually re-introducing foods by eating them in single-serving quantities in social settings. For example, once a week in the summer I get an ice cream cone. However, I only eat ice cream in a restaurant and I contain the event to that experience. I make sure I eat only the best of whatever I want, like really good quality chocolate or ice cream. That way it feels like an indulgence, not a junk-fest.
If I have a special dinner coming up, I allow myself to eat reasonable quantities of whatever food I'm craving at someone else's house or in a restaurant. If I cook for others, I make them take the food home or I immediately freeze it in individual portions after. I don't take a box home from a restaurant, and since I don't really care about bread, I skip it.
Basically, I'm working on making treats be treats and not all out binge triggers. Someday I may be able to have these foods in my house again. Who knows? Right now I don't care. I can eat a slice of pumpkin pie at someone else's house for a holiday and leave the rest of the pie there.
Unfortunately, I can't bake right now, but someday I might be there. One step at a time.
Some foods are so triggering for me that I don't eat them at all: jelly beans, gummy bears, chocolate covered raisins, etc.
Unlike the poster above me, I do give up sugar sometimes (I just gave up sweets for Lent), and I find that the less sweets I eat, the less sweets I want.0 -
I have found cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) to be helpful in changing the all-or-nothing mindset. It's quite simple, doesn't delve too deeply into anything, just teaches you to challenge negative thought patterns (one of which is the 'all or nothing" thing). If you don't want to see an actual therapist, you can do it yourself easily from a book, and there are tons of resources on the internet.
I would strongly urge working on changing this thought pattern as it's not only very destructive to weight loss/maintenance goals, it can hold you back in lots of other areas of life too.
I had this attitude for along time, and I still can have the tendency to slide back into it, or into obsessiveness. Calorie counting can definitely make that worse. I made a point from the beginning of not cutting out any foods that I enjoy, and even made a conscious point to include certain things (like chocolate) on a daily basis. Before I started on MFP, I couldn't keep some foods in the house without eating tem until they were gone. Just using MFP to log appropriate portion sizes has helped a lot and I can now keep a large amount of chocolate for example in my house, and slowly work my way through it. In fact, my problem no is that I buy too much forgetting that I don't eat it as much now! But, it sits there on the shelf and I don't even think about it until it's the evening and it's time to choose what I'm going to eat that day. Eat it, enjoy it, forget about it knowing that there will be other days to eat what's left.
Having said all that, I still can be prone to sliding back into obsessiveness and if left unchecked, I could see myself cutting out more and more foods just not to deal with the stress of decision making; cutting out all foods that are less nutritious for example. I know however that that would take me to a bad place ,entally so again, I'm making a point of doing the opposite. While I eat a very nutritious, balanced diet, focusing mainly on getting enough protein, fibre, fats, vitamins minerals etc, I am also making a point of including foods that I really enjoy but that I've come to see as a little "unnecessary". There are certain foods that are starting to stress me out because they don't perfectly fit my plan to hit all my macros. Being stressed out by certain foods is not a good sign, so I'm making sure to have one of those foods at least once a week. This week I will be having a cheese & ham panini - something I used to love eating for lunch, but without even noticing has become a food that I feel anxious about eating because it's not "balanced" enough.
The other part to tackle is to stop - stop right now - beating yourself up when you eat too much, or go off plan. Stop thinking "I've ruined the day so I'll carry on". That's not how it works. Log what you eat and learn to take responsibility for whether or not it continues or not. It's ok to eat 100 calories or 200 calories over your calorie goal. It's not the end of the world. It's not even the end of the world to et 5000 calories over your goal, but if you slow down, breathe and look at it logically - there's a big difference between going slightly over and going 5000 calories over. The trouble is, with "all or nothing" thinking, you're seeing the two scenarios as being the same, because you've "failed". Any slip-up is a failure that then gives you the permission to keep eating... at least until "tomorrow" when you get to magically wipe the slate clean and be perfect again. [ETA: It just occurred to me - for me personally, having that tiny "failure" doesn't just give me [i]permission[/i] to continue to over-eat, it almost makes it feel like I [i]have[/i] to continue, to make it a [i]real[/i] failure that I can legitimately hate myself for and beat myself up for. 200 calories over may make me feel just a little uncomfortable, but many hundreds or thousands over would make me feel terrible, hate myself, and make me resolve to do better tomorrow, to truly start over and be perfect. It some how makes it easier to wipe the slate clean. That's the trouble with the all or nothing thinking, and that's what a vicious cycle it can cause.]
In reality, any perceived slip-up is a learning opportunity and a chance to look at how you're doing things, why you ate something unplanned etc. Sometimes it's just part of the normal ebb and flow of life where some days you'll want to eat a bit more, other days a bit less. That's normal and won't prevent your success.
tl;dr Ok, I've rambled, but my point is that the all or nothing mentality can be a defence mechanism, a thought/behaviour pattern that makes us feel "safe" when we are being "good"/"healthy"/whatever. It's something that helps us deal with anxiety, but ultimately, it makes everything much worse because the anxiety is so much worse when we deviate from "safe"/"clean"/"healthy" etc. It's a form of perfectionism. It's not healthy and, left unchecked, can spiral. I'd strongly urge you to at least look into some CBT online or in books, and if it's seriously affecting your life then to consider talking to a counsellor or therapist, at least for a few sessions. People aren't inherently "all or nothing kind of people". It doesn't define you, and it's something that can be overcome.0 -
I have found cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) to be helpful in changing the all-or-nothing mindset. It's quite simple, doesn't delve too deeply into anything, just teaches you to challenge negative thought patterns (one of which is the 'all or nothing" thing). If you don't want to see an actual therapist, you can do it yourself easily from a book, and there are tons of resources on the internet.
Can you recommend one? TIA0 -
I don't want to say you are dealing with an eating disorder, but I have had similar feelings and thoughts and until I realized I was struggling with one, things did not get better. I deal with binging and purging. The whole "I will start tomorrow" as I shove ridiculous amounts of food in my mouth is such a horrible experience. What's worse? I CAN'T STOP! The only way I can avoid binging is to avoid the foods that trigger me altogether. It's soooooooooooo frustrating (I'm getting irritated as I type this) to not be a "normal eater"....there is no such thing as having a little bit of certain foods for me as the first bite is equal to putting a needle in my arm for a drug user or taking that sip of alcohol for an alcoholic. I literally feel my body go into a state of euphoria and it's all downhill from there. I don't wish it on anyone. OA (Overeaters Anonymous) helped me a lot and although in the long run the program wasn't for me, it's good to know I'm not alone. You can go to www.oa.org and get a listing of face to face meetings in your area or telephone meetings (they were much easier for me) and you can listen in without having to say anything. I hope this helps. Hug and don't give up!0
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If I ever catch myself eating too much of something, it's usually getting close to meal time.
Try indulging in the bad stuff only after you've eaten a filling meal.0 -
Its happening to you because you are staying away from something that you like. You should never stay away from foods you like because when you have a chance to eat them your body goes crazy and thinks its not going to see it again, which will make you binge over and over again. Why dont you eat your cookies though?
^^^^ this is *exactly* how I used to be about foods when I used to do the whole "good foods/bad foods" restriction thing. I'm a sucker for the whole "forbidden fruit tastes the sweetest" thing
I overcame this by changing how I thought of foods. I gave myself permission to eat what I wanted so long as I stuck to my calorie goal and also got sufficient amounts of protein, fruit, veggies etc as well. It really does work.... when I stopped seeing certain foods as forbidden treats, they really lost their appeal. LIke krispy kreme donuts, now that i've given myself permission to eat krispy kreme whenever, I've come to realise that i don't actually like the taste of them all that much - they're overly sweet and I struggle to eat a whole one. Some donuts I like, mainly the ones without icing (frosting to you USA people) and with either jam or applesauce in the middle, especially applesauce in the middle and dusted with cinnamon and sugar on the outside. But I don't have any urge to eat them constantly. If I fancy one I'll have one. Same with other sweets... with chocolate I used to be terrible, if I had chocolate in the house I used to have to eat it ALLLLL but these days I'll have a square here, a square there, eat other chocolate bars half at a time and leave the other half in the fridge sometimes for days, until I actually fancy eating it...
being well fed helps, if I'm hungry and haven't planned my meals well then I'll just snack on whatever's there, not to the point of overeating calorie wise, but to the point where my macros are out of balance i.e. not enough protein and too many carbs. If I'm not hungry then with things like chocolate I'm able to eat enough to enjoy the taste but not so much that it's going to put me over my calories... ditto other foods that I used to categorise as bad/forbidden foods. These days they're just one of a whole range of foods that I like to eat.
A lot of people who are in the mindset of "I have to ban myself from being anywhere near this food" seem reluctant to try it this way and give themselves permission to just eat whatever... kind of understandable as they probably fear they'll lose control... maybe there is a phase when you go OTT with these foods but in my experience so long as you're feeding yourself properly in terms of getting all the nutrients your body needs (no starvation diets!) then this OTT phase really doesn't last and the food really loses its appeal........ when you get to that point then you can just eat it in moderation0 -
I have found cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT) to be helpful in changing the all-or-nothing mindset. It's quite simple, doesn't delve too deeply into anything, just teaches you to challenge negative thought patterns (one of which is the 'all or nothing" thing). If you don't want to see an actual therapist, you can do it yourself easily from a book, and there are tons of resources on the internet.
I would strongly urge working on changing this thought pattern as it's not only very destructive to weight loss/maintenance goals, it can hold you back in lots of other areas of life too.
I had this attitude for along time, and I still can have the tendency to slide back into it, or into obsessiveness. Calorie counting can definitely make that worse. I made a point from the beginning of not cutting out any foods that I enjoy, and even made a conscious point to include certain things (like chocolate) on a daily basis. Before I started on MFP, I couldn't keep some foods in the house without eating tem until they were gone. Just using MFP to log appropriate portion sizes has helped a lot and I can now keep a large amount of chocolate for example in my house, and slowly work my way through it. In fact, my problem no is that I buy too much forgetting that I don't eat it as much now! But, it sits there on the shelf and I don't even think about it until it's the evening and it's time to choose what I'm going to eat that day. Eat it, enjoy it, forget about it knowing that there will be other days to eat what's left.
Having said all that, I still can be prone to sliding back into obsessiveness and if left unchecked, I could see myself cutting out more and more foods just not to deal with the stress of decision making; cutting out all foods that are less nutritious for example. I know however that that would take me to a bad place ,entally so again, I'm making a point of doing the opposite. While I eat a very nutritious, balanced diet, focusing mainly on getting enough protein, fibre, fats, vitamins minerals etc, I am also making a point of including foods that I really enjoy but that I've come to see as a little "unnecessary". There are certain foods that are starting to stress me out because they don't perfectly fit my plan to hit all my macros. Being stressed out by certain foods is not a good sign, so I'm making sure to have one of those foods at least once a week. This week I will be having a cheese & ham panini - something I used to love eating for lunch, but without even noticing has become a food that I feel anxious about eating because it's not "balanced" enough.
The other part to tackle is to stop - stop right now - beating yourself up when you eat too much, or go off plan. Stop thinking "I've ruined the day so I'll carry on". That's not how it works. Log what you eat and learn to take responsibility for whether or not it continues or not. It's ok to eat 100 calories or 200 calories over your calorie goal. It's not the end of the world. It's not even the end of the world to et 5000 calories over your goal, but if you slow down, breathe and look at it logically - there's a big difference between going slightly over and going 5000 calories over. The trouble is, with "all or nothing" thinking, you're seeing the two scenarios as being the same, because you've "failed". Any slip-up is a failure that then gives you the permission to keep eating... at least until "tomorrow" when you get to magically wipe the slate clean and be perfect again. [ETA: It just occurred to me - for me personally, having that tiny "failure" doesn't just give me [i]permission[/i] to continue to over-eat, it almost makes it feel like I [i]have[/i] to continue, to make it a [i]real[/i] failure that I can legitimately hate myself for and beat myself up for. 200 calories over may make me feel just a little uncomfortable, but many hundreds or thousands over would make me feel terrible, hate myself, and make me resolve to do better tomorrow, to truly start over and be perfect. It some how makes it easier to wipe the slate clean. That's the trouble with the all or nothing thinking, and that's what a vicious cycle it can cause.]
In reality, any perceived slip-up is a learning opportunity and a chance to look at how you're doing things, why you ate something unplanned etc. Sometimes it's just part of the normal ebb and flow of life where some days you'll want to eat a bit more, other days a bit less. That's normal and won't prevent your success.
tl;dr Ok, I've rambled, but my point is that the all or nothing mentality can be a defence mechanism, a thought/behaviour pattern that makes us feel "safe" when we are being "good"/"healthy"/whatever. It's something that helps us deal with anxiety, but ultimately, it makes everything much worse because the anxiety is so much worse when we deviate from "safe"/"clean"/"healthy" etc. It's a form of perfectionism. It's not healthy and, left unchecked, can spiral. I'd strongly urge you to at least look into some CBT online or in books, and if it's seriously affecting your life then to consider talking to a counsellor or therapist, at least for a few sessions. People aren't inherently "all or nothing kind of people". It doesn't define you, and it's something that can be overcome.
This is a great post and I echo most of it! Reading Overcoming Binge Eating by Dr. Christopher Fairburn was life-changing for me and Intuitive Eating by Evelyn Tribole and Elyse Resch helped a lot as well.0 -
For me a lot of things in life have to be "all or nothing" and very black/white. In the past, this was a MAJOR impediment to my success in fitness and weight loss, as I felt that ONE chocolate bar or fast food indulgence meant I had failed.
The best thing for me has been logging everything on MFP. Instead of it being a black/white issue about good food vs bad or something like that, it's all about the consistency of logging and also the jigsaw puzzle of trying to meet most of my macros and stay under my calorie goal etc. For me it satisfies the "all or nothing" part of me...I cannot log just half my food, or skip a day...must be 100% on top of logging every single day (and I've done just that for the past 13 months now).
I guess this probably wouldn't be quite enough for some people but it really works for me.0 -
Logging is the best tool to overcome this. Learn to fit them in your daily goal. Make sure you jave set up your profile for a reasonable goal, not one that is too restrictive.0
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For me, stopping counting calories for a while was really useful. I think it depends on if you don't know how much you're eating or what calories are in which foods. My mom got me my first calorie counting book in grade school. I had been on a diet since second grade. I was binging on junk because I was too restrictive and obsessive about counting it and trying to make it fit. When I just let go, it worked itself out. It really depends on what your own underlying issues are and where you are at in your journey.
I can go a whole day, not log my food, guess my calories, log the food and be within 10% every day.0 -
For me a lot of things in life have to be "all or nothing" and very black/white. In the past, this was a MAJOR impediment to my success in fitness and weight loss, as I felt that ONE chocolate bar or fast food indulgence meant I had failed.
The best thing for me has been logging everything on MFP. Instead of it being a black/white issue about good food vs bad or something like that, it's all about the consistency of logging and also the jigsaw puzzle of trying to meet most of my macros and stay under my calorie goal etc. For me it satisfies the "all or nothing" part of me...I cannot log just half my food, or skip a day...must be 100% on top of logging every single day (and I've done just that for the past 13 months now).
I guess this probably wouldn't be quite enough for some people but it really works for me.
I really like your attitude! I will keep this in mind!0
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