Help - my brain is too stubborn!
crazihel
Posts: 72 Member
Hi,
After spending years trying to be slim, and then even slimmer, I've decided to turn my entire eating/working out mentality on it's head and attempt to add some lean muscle mass.
So I know the theory, heavy weights, low reps, calorie surplus - I've done a lot of reading!
My biggest concern is the idea of eating more. I know I have to do it, I want to do it. But there is a part of my brain which is finding it difficult to accept after spending 4+ years counting the calories and eating at 1300-1500 for the last 18 months.
So with this is mind, has anyone got any tips on how to mentally overcome my brain's stubbornness?! For example increasing calories incrementally, not counting them etc etc?
Feeling like I could use a bit of help to support this change in lifestyle!
Thanks
After spending years trying to be slim, and then even slimmer, I've decided to turn my entire eating/working out mentality on it's head and attempt to add some lean muscle mass.
So I know the theory, heavy weights, low reps, calorie surplus - I've done a lot of reading!
My biggest concern is the idea of eating more. I know I have to do it, I want to do it. But there is a part of my brain which is finding it difficult to accept after spending 4+ years counting the calories and eating at 1300-1500 for the last 18 months.
So with this is mind, has anyone got any tips on how to mentally overcome my brain's stubbornness?! For example increasing calories incrementally, not counting them etc etc?
Feeling like I could use a bit of help to support this change in lifestyle!
Thanks
0
Replies
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I am in a similar situation and I am really curious to know what people have to offer on this topic0
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I'm juuuust starting with this. I didn't even diet that long! You go! From what I've read, they say to play it by ear, cutting back if you gain and eating more if you lose. They've said around 100 calories a week added on slowly as a start. I'm going to add slowly and see if I start to gain. I just had a crazy 24 hour ,3 lb yo-yo weight gain/loss, so it can be frustrating to figure out where you are in the short term. I need to be patient and see what my weight does over time.0
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Make sure you have some different pants. The extra eating really leads to a more full abdomen which may feel uncomfortable but is part of the process. Get a body analysis scale too. It will help you manage the mental side and provide proof that things are moving the way they should.0
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It will take trial & error to find what works for you. Eat maintenance for several weeks, then reevaluate.
Edited to add that I have a Fitbit Aria wifi scale. The weight is accurate, and I love not having to log my weight any more. But the fat %, fat mass & lean mass is useless.
Don't waste your money.0 -
Try to shoot for maintance first- get settled with that for a few weeks.
THEN start adding in 100 calories at a time.
Also realize- you WILL have days where you feel fat and want to quit.
Period- there is no question. it will happen. warn your significant other (it's a running joke now- first I ***** about being fat- then I ***** about being hungry)
Secondly- I would set a time frame- I did 4-6 months- I wanted 6 but was willing to settle for 4. I ended at 5 fairly happily with 15-20 lbs of total gain.
make sure you have "fat clothes" you will learn to live in stretchy pants and be okay with it- do away with fitted tailored clothes for work (this is why so many women chose to bulk in winter- it's easier to hide- bulking over the summer sucks- and secondly winter clothes are more bulk friendly- plus the holidays)
You're target goal of what to eat- will be a moving target- so you might start at 1900 for maintenance and move to 2200 for bulk. After 4-5 weeks- that may become maintenance and you'll have to move up to 2500. (I started around 2000 as a min and wound up eating upwards of 3000 at the end of 5 months)
I'd also say get friendly with your scale- you'll need to evaluate to see if you are ACTUALLY moving up- I went 3 weeks thinking I was moving- and I'd plateaued and needed to up food again.
It's hard- but the gainz- they are awesome.0 -
Try to shoot for maintance first- get settled with that for a few weeks.
THEN start adding in 100 calories at a time.
Also realize- you WILL have days where you feel fat and want to quit.
Period- there is no question. it will happen. warn your significant other (it's a running joke now- first I ***** about being fat- then I ***** about being hungry)
Secondly- I would set a time frame- I did 4-6 months- I wanted 6 but was willing to settle for 4. I ended at 5 fairly happily with 15-20 lbs of total gain.
make sure you have "fat clothes" you will learn to live in stretchy pants and be okay with it- do away with fitted tailored clothes for work (this is why so many women chose to bulk in winter- it's easier to hide- bulking over the summer sucks- and secondly winter clothes are more bulk friendly- plus the holidays)
You're target goal of what to eat- will be a moving target- so you might start at 1900 for maintenance and move to 2200 for bulk. After 4-5 weeks- that may become maintenance and you'll have to move up to 2500. (I started around 2000 as a min and wound up eating upwards of 3000 at the end of 5 months)
I'd also say get friendly with your scale- you'll need to evaluate to see if you are ACTUALLY moving up- I went 3 weeks thinking I was moving- and I'd plateaued and needed to up food again.
It's hard- but the gainz- they are awesome.
All this right here ^^^^^
It will come down to trial and error at first. I upped the cals 3 times the first month, as I was losing weight.0 -
I find that, beyond the logical reasons for needing more food to bulk, my body just craves it and I have to give in. When I'm lifting heavy, there are days that I have to shove food into my face or else feel as if I'm going crazy. Feeling weak and exhausted are also things that you don't want to happen in the weight room;) It is a bit of trial and error, but I'd rather err a bit on the "extra" side and get my lifts in , then have my friend have to catch me 'cause I didn't fuel my body. Eating a banana on the way to the gym helps me last through my weight workout.0
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Hi,
After spending years trying to be slim, and then even slimmer, I've decided to turn my entire eating/working out mentality on it's head and attempt to add some lean muscle mass.
So I know the theory, heavy weights, low reps, calorie surplus - I've done a lot of reading!
My biggest concern is the idea of eating more. I know I have to do it, I want to do it. But there is a part of my brain which is finding it difficult to accept after spending 4+ years counting the calories and eating at 1300-1500 for the last 18 months.
So with this is mind, has anyone got any tips on how to mentally overcome my brain's stubbornness?! For example increasing calories incrementally, not counting them etc etc?
Feeling like I could use a bit of help to support this change in lifestyle!
Thanks
I am in the same boat! Changing this thinking is hard to do.0 -
First time I tried I failed mentally to eat more. Second time I quit after 8 weeks and 2kg because I struggled physically to eat the extra, plus I felt really fat in the belly. After reading a thread on "women who bulk" I am gearing up to give it another go, but first a small pre holiday cut to lose a bit of the fat gain. If it works I will feel much happier about going for a proper 6 month bulk when I get back :-)0
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Following for the advice.0
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I went through the same thing. I had been eating 1400-1550 literally for about 8 years, and I just got to the point where I was tired all the time, kept injuring myself and couldn't progress in the gym anymore. Here are a few things that I learned:
1. I have to track calories. I couldn't consistently eat more than I was without tracking everything. My natural instinct is to cut out things here and there, and wait just a little bit longer in between meals/snacks, so when I wasn't tracking consistently I'd do okay for a few days and then would be right back in my 1400-1550 range.
2. It will take way longer than you think. I wanted to gain 8-10 pounds, and for some reason, I thought it would take me around 3 months. I started in December just trying to eat more, so I've only been eating at a consistent surplus since January, but I'm only up 6 pounds. You need to be prepared to be flexible with your timeframe or your total amount gained.
3. Take measurements. Especially in the first couple of months, the scale can fluctuate wildly, but the tape measure doesn't lie. Even if the scale goes up a few pounds overnight (and it will, probably a few times), your size is what matters. I'm still working on this concept. I'll be going along just fine, and then this little voice in my head goes "OMG, THAT NUMBER IS SO HIGH! YOU LOOK LIKE A COW!" My BF has to pull me aside and say "you still fit in your clothes, so you're, objectively speaking, not a cow" a few times a week.
4. Focus on any other good effect other than the scale, especially at first. I love what I've been able to do at the gym since I started. I also love that I have more energy, I'm not in pain on a daily and I'm not freezing cold all the time. It's also helped improve my relationship with food quite a bit, although I still have a long way to go. When your brain starts freaking out over calories or the number on the scale, you need to have another benefit of bulking in mind, or it's really easy to spin out and let that part of your brain take over. The part of your brain that keeps telling you that you have to eat less and less, or that it doesn't matter what else happens to you as long as the scale number keeps going down, is not your friend.0 -
It's a mental game.
What I did was set a goal: 180 pounds. Every time I feel fat and panic and want to quit, I remind myself that I haven't reached my goal yet, so I can't quit. (I also haven't yet added an inch to my waistline, my other metric.)
This is planned.
I took the weight off before so I'll be able to again.
Now, after 9 weeks, I can see some physical changes. Every time I start to obsess about my tummy, I flex my upper body or turn my attention to my obliques.
I read the Gaining Weight thread EVERY DAY.
I have friends who are also bulking.
My mantra is: Fuel and Train0 -
There is a science to bulking properly. My advice would be to read the 10 habits of Precision Nutrition eating by Dr John Berardi. It's not a book, I'm not selling anything. You can google it and read them. In a nutshell, you have carbs only at breakfast and around working out. At other times of day due to circadian rythyms, your body is more prone to storing carbohydrate as fat. So in your case, calculate your metabolic rate and energy expenditure and add calories slowly to that as you start. Usually about 200 calories. Example: your TDEE is 2000 calories. Start at 2200 calories per day with most carbs at breakfast and around workout. At other meals just proteins and healthy fats. 2200 is a small calorie surplus and should not lead to excessive fat gain. When you stop gaining weight (measure once a week), then add 200 more calories and so forth. good luck.0
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Try to shoot for maintance first- get settled with that for a few weeks.
THEN start adding in 100 calories at a time.
Also realize- you WILL have days where you feel fat and want to quit.
Period- there is no question. it will happen. warn your significant other (it's a running joke now- first I ***** about being fat- then I ***** about being hungry)
Secondly- I would set a time frame- I did 4-6 months- I wanted 6 but was willing to settle for 4. I ended at 5 fairly happily with 15-20 lbs of total gain.
make sure you have "fat clothes" you will learn to live in stretchy pants and be okay with it- do away with fitted tailored clothes for work (this is why so many women chose to bulk in winter- it's easier to hide- bulking over the summer sucks- and secondly winter clothes are more bulk friendly- plus the holidays)
You're target goal of what to eat- will be a moving target- so you might start at 1900 for maintenance and move to 2200 for bulk. After 4-5 weeks- that may become maintenance and you'll have to move up to 2500. (I started around 2000 as a min and wound up eating upwards of 3000 at the end of 5 months)
I'd also say get friendly with your scale- you'll need to evaluate to see if you are ACTUALLY moving up- I went 3 weeks thinking I was moving- and I'd plateaued and needed to up food again.
It's hard- but the gainz- they are awesome.
Listen to Jo. She knows what she's talking about.
And yes, it will be HARD. You'll question your decision a lot and want to give up. But push through it. It becomes easier. You will still question yourself, but not as much.
I'm on week 10 of my first bulk. If I can make it to 16 weeks I will be a rockstar. And I never thought I'd say this, but I'm enjoying it so much I'm getting scared to cut!0 -
It's a mental game.
What I did was set a goal: 180 pounds. Every time I feel fat and panic and want to quit, I remind myself that I haven't reached my goal yet, so I can't quit. (I also haven't yet added an inch to my waistline, my other metric.)
This is planned.
I took the weight off before so I'll be able to again.
^^This.^^ You have to adjust your thinking on what your goal is. When bulking, your goal is not to look better... your goal is to gain size/weight. You pursue this goal knowing that it is a means to an end and with the confidence that you've lost weight before and can do it again. You pursue this goal knowing that the ultimate result (looking strong and awesome!) will be worth the interim stages necessary to achieve it.0 -
OK, let me get this straight, as far as your weight, right now you are the weight you want and there is another level of perfection you are attempting to achieve and this is lean muscle mass, God I wish I had this problem, but I digress. And you want to know how after all these months or years of calorie restriction you can possibly convince yourself to eat more so you can have the muscle mass you wish for. Do I have that right?
So, assuming that I am correct, I have heard that people who need to gain weight, ironically, should drink the weight loss drinks along with their regular meals, like Nurtra…whatever. Just consider it like your beverage with your meal. If you DONT do this or something like this where you have very controlled oversight over the increased calorie number, you will not get what you want and we know you really need to get what you want. Hey you've been able to control so well so far, I don''t doubt you will get what you want. Think of yourself like an olympic athlete, it sounds like you have that kind of discipline. I'm not being sarcastic, I know it probably sounds like it. Just go for it!0 -
Agreed with a lot that is said here.
Coming from someone who had been basically 110-112 pounds for 10 years, it was very difficult to rationalize the idea that I might gain 8-10 pounds. Right now I'm at 115, but I only know this because I am checking weight once a month. I think what has helped me is not stepping on the scale very often. Also, a bulk is actually pretty fun. I am counting calories, but mainly just to make sure I'm getting enough calories and mostly, protein.
Also, I find it kind of awesome how I'm lifting heavier than I've ever been able to, and realizing that it must be the extra food! That association is helping me adjust to the extra intake and not getting stressed about it. I've actually found it isn't that easy to eat more than 1800 calories for me on a usual day (eating at home, good foods, lots of protein) so I am supplementing with a yummy protein shake at the end of the day that is like my nightly bowl of ice cream.
So basically once you start lifting heavy and seeing how much the extra food is helping (I'm already seeing results of this bulk 4 weeks in) you will feel better and ultimately put it out of your mind. Just stay away from your smaller clothes so you don't "feel" fat when they are snug. Remember a lot of time when you start eating more you instantly hold on to water, so you'll see more bloating than normal. Good luck!0 -
OK, let me get this straight, as far as your weight, right now you are the weight you want and there is another level of perfection you are attempting to achieve and this is lean muscle mass, God I wish I had this problem, but I digress. And you want to know how after all these months or years of calorie restriction you can possibly convince yourself to eat more so you can have the muscle mass you wish for. Do I have that right?
So, assuming that I am correct, I have heard that people who need to gain weight, ironically, should drink the weight loss drinks along with their regular meals, like Nurtra…whatever. Just consider it like your beverage with your meal. If you DONT do this or something like this where you have very controlled oversight over the increased calorie number, you will not get what you want and we know you really need to get what you want. Hey you've been able to control so well so far, I don''t doubt you will get what you want. Think of yourself like an olympic athlete, it sounds like you have that kind of discipline. I'm not being sarcastic, I know it probably sounds like it. Just go for it!
No, I'm not really at the weight that I want - that's my problem! I am 163lbs & 5ft 10 so according to BMI I'm at the high end of the index (not that I really bother with bmi). I've struggled to lose anything more and that is not for lack of trying/counting calories. However I've started thinking about what exercise I'm doing & at what foods makes up my calories and I need a shake up!
Hence the change of goal! It's felt like I've put all the effort in without any progress for a while now which is why I think adding some lean mass might motivate me again and give me a focus! Thanks for the encouragement!0 -
First off, Happy Easter all!
Thanks to everyone for your helpful replies! And to everyone in the same boat, best of luck on reaching your goals! Add me if you want help with beginner motivation & discussing progress! I know I could use the help haha!
I will definitely do the reading some of your recommended & also invest in some loose trousers! Luckily I wear stretchy jeggings a lot anyway!
I am beginning my programme tonight & I can't wait! 0 -
OK, let me get this straight, as far as your weight, right now you are the weight you want and there is another level of perfection you are attempting to achieve and this is lean muscle mass, God I wish I had this problem, but I digress. And you want to know how after all these months or years of calorie restriction you can possibly convince yourself to eat more so you can have the muscle mass you wish for. Do I have that right?
So, assuming that I am correct, I have heard that people who need to gain weight, ironically, should drink the weight loss drinks along with their regular meals, like Nurtra…whatever. Just consider it like your beverage with your meal. If you DONT do this or something like this where you have very controlled oversight over the increased calorie number, you will not get what you want and we know you really need to get what you want. Hey you've been able to control so well so far, I don''t doubt you will get what you want. Think of yourself like an olympic athlete, it sounds like you have that kind of discipline. I'm not being sarcastic, I know it probably sounds like it. Just go for it!
No, I'm not really at the weight that I want - that's my problem! I am 163lbs & 5ft 10 so according to BMI I'm at the high end of the index (not that I really bother with bmi). I've struggled to lose anything more and that is not for lack of trying/counting calories. However I've started thinking about what exercise I'm doing & at what foods makes up my calories and I need a shake up!
Hence the change of goal! It's felt like I've put all the effort in without any progress for a while now which is why I think adding some lean mass might motivate me again and give me a focus! Thanks for the encouragement!
The danger of bulking when your body fat is too high is that you are more likely to add fat than somebody who is leaner:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html
That being said, I was 27% bf when I started this (so I was really too fat) but I've noticed awesome physical changes and gained a lot of strength.
Also, the struggle to gain and keep a gaining mindset has really helped my perspective about the scale (not that I was particularly insane about fluctuations, but I was firmly in a low=good mindset).0 -
OK, let me get this straight, as far as your weight, right now you are the weight you want and there is another level of perfection you are attempting to achieve and this is lean muscle mass, God I wish I had this problem, but I digress. And you want to know how after all these months or years of calorie restriction you can possibly convince yourself to eat more so you can have the muscle mass you wish for. Do I have that right?
So, assuming that I am correct, I have heard that people who need to gain weight, ironically, should drink the weight loss drinks along with their regular meals, like Nurtra…whatever. Just consider it like your beverage with your meal. If you DONT do this or something like this where you have very controlled oversight over the increased calorie number, you will not get what you want and we know you really need to get what you want. Hey you've been able to control so well so far, I don''t doubt you will get what you want. Think of yourself like an olympic athlete, it sounds like you have that kind of discipline. I'm not being sarcastic, I know it probably sounds like it. Just go for it!
No, I'm not really at the weight that I want - that's my problem! I am 163lbs & 5ft 10 so according to BMI I'm at the high end of the index (not that I really bother with bmi). I've struggled to lose anything more and that is not for lack of trying/counting calories. However I've started thinking about what exercise I'm doing & at what foods makes up my calories and I need a shake up!
Hence the change of goal! It's felt like I've put all the effort in without any progress for a while now which is why I think adding some lean mass might motivate me again and give me a focus! Thanks for the encouragement!
The danger of bulking when your body fat is too high is that you are more likely to add fat than somebody who is leaner:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html
That being said, I was 27% bf when I started this (so I was really too fat) but I've noticed awesome physical changes and gained a lot of strength.
Also, the struggle to gain and keep a gaining mindset has really helped my perspective about the scale (not that I was particularly insane about fluctuations, but I was firmly in a low=good mindset).
ETA: I was 5'9 and 170ish when I started. BMI is kind of a random number. Use either body fat or waist measurement for this.0 -
My biggest concern is the idea of eating more. I know I have to do it, I want to do it. But there is a part of my brain which is finding it difficult to accept after spending 4+ years counting the calories and eating at 1300-1500 for the last 18 months.
So with this is mind, has anyone got any tips on how to mentally overcome my brain's stubbornness?! For example increasing calories incrementally, not counting them etc etc?
No strategies that may have worked for one person can compare to simple experience.
The feels when bulking when the damn scale just is not going up will radially alter your perspective on all things related to dieting. Absolutely nothing can replace experiencing those feels. Stay the course and put in the time trying to gain and you will experience those feels.
It shifts your perspective so dramatically that you can pretty much tell in conversation about dieting who has and hasn't had that experience.
I wrote an article recently about bulking; many in this thread have commented that they really enjoy it, there is more to it than that; our bodies crave it, there is a level of satisfaction you get while doing it, plus your body rewards you with performance rewards everywhere, not just your muscles for exercise, literally everything about your body performs better while bulking.
http://strengthunbound.com/why-you-should-be-bulking/
Life is good when you are bulking. There is no reason not to maximize the amount of time spent living life when life is good.0 -
My biggest concern is the idea of eating more. I know I have to do it, I want to do it. But there is a part of my brain which is finding it difficult to accept after spending 4+ years counting the calories and eating at 1300-1500 for the last 18 months.
So with this is mind, has anyone got any tips on how to mentally overcome my brain's stubbornness?! For example increasing calories incrementally, not counting them etc etc?
No strategies that may have worked for one person can compare to simple experience.
The feels when bulking when the damn scale just is not going up will radially alter your perspective on all things related to dieting. Absolutely nothing can replace experiencing those feels. Stay the course and put in the time trying to gain and you will experience those feels.
It shifts your perspective so dramatically that you can pretty much tell in conversation about dieting who has and hasn't had that experience.
My weight randomly decided to drop this last week. I'm just about done with this.0 -
A lobotomy to start
Is that supposed to be insulting?0 -
"how to mentally overcome my brains stubbornness..." That's makes no sense.
Look, I'm not being mean, but you want to overcome? Then you have to stop playing mind games with yourself and stop looking for the right answer from perfect strangers. You have all the answers and all the mental acuity.
We are all so smart but we continue to complicate the simplest things. Soooo, I suggest that you find a way. Only you know how. You will get five million answers here and probably heed none. So, what do YOU think will work for you? Therein lies the rub....0 -
No, I'm not really at the weight that I want - that's my problem! I am 163lbs & 5ft 10 so according to BMI I'm at the high end of the index (not that I really bother with bmi). I've struggled to lose anything more and that is not for lack of trying/counting calories. However I've started thinking about what exercise I'm doing & at what foods makes up my calories and I need a shake up!
Hence the change of goal! It's felt like I've put all the effort in without any progress for a while now which is why I think adding some lean mass might motivate me again and give me a focus! Thanks for the encouragement!
The danger of bulking when your body fat is too high is that you are more likely to add fat than somebody who is leaner:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html
That being said, I was 27% bf when I started this (so I was really too fat) but I've noticed awesome physical changes and gained a lot of strength.
Also, the struggle to gain and keep a gaining mindset has really helped my perspective about the scale (not that I was particularly insane about fluctuations, but I was firmly in a low=good mindset).
When I said high end of the index I actually meant higher end of the healthy index. My BMI is 23.7! Not sure if I have accidentally confused the issue a little here! I'm not overweight...I don't think...but I am definitely giving that article a read 0 -
Weight loss is not linear! Sometimes you do everything right but maintain—or even gain. Others you lose a lot for no good reason (whoosh!).My weight randomly decided to drop this last week. I'm just about done with this.
Weigh yourself once a week and look for a downward trend. Take photos & measurements, too.
Edited to add read this: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1080242-a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants0 -
"how to mentally overcome my brains stubbornness..." That's makes no sense.
Look, I'm not being mean, but you want to overcome? Then you have to stop playing mind games with yourself and looking for the right answer from perfect strangers. You have all the answers and all the mental acuity.
We are all so smart but we continue to complicate the simplest things. Soooo, I suggest that you find a way. Only you know how. YOu will get five million answers here and probably heed none.
Forgive me but I thought the point of these forums were to ask for advice & to help each other out? Thanks for your input regardless. I know I can do it, but sometimes its nice to chat to others about it who have gone through similar experiences.0 -
No, I'm not really at the weight that I want - that's my problem! I am 163lbs & 5ft 10 so according to BMI I'm at the high end of the index (not that I really bother with bmi). I've struggled to lose anything more and that is not for lack of trying/counting calories. However I've started thinking about what exercise I'm doing & at what foods makes up my calories and I need a shake up!
Hence the change of goal! It's felt like I've put all the effort in without any progress for a while now which is why I think adding some lean mass might motivate me again and give me a focus! Thanks for the encouragement!
The danger of bulking when your body fat is too high is that you are more likely to add fat than somebody who is leaner:
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/initial-body-fat-and-body-composition-changes.html
That being said, I was 27% bf when I started this (so I was really too fat) but I've noticed awesome physical changes and gained a lot of strength.
Also, the struggle to gain and keep a gaining mindset has really helped my perspective about the scale (not that I was particularly insane about fluctuations, but I was firmly in a low=good mindset).
When I said high end of the index I actually meant higher end of the healthy index. My BMI is 23.7! Not sure if I have accidentally confused the issue a little here! I'm not overweight...I don't think...but I am definitely giving that article a read
He recommends 19-24% BF for women as a starting point. BMI doesn't tell you anything about body fat. You could have an "overweight" BMI and be solid muscle.0 -
Weight loss is not linear! Sometimes you do everything right but maintain—or even gain. Others you lose a lot for no good reason (whoosh!).My weight randomly decided to drop this last week. I'm just about done with this.
Weigh yourself once a week and look for a downward trend. Take photos & measurements, too.
Edited to add read this: http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1080242-a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants
I'm trying to gain.0
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