Quick question about TDEE deficit %
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Given your size I would go for maintenance and a recomp rather than cutting calories. It's not really that you have too much fat, just not enough muscle!
I am recomping, as I said in another one of my replies. Nowhere in my OP did I say I was trying to lose weight! I know I am underweight, I have been in the 25% percentile my entire life. I put on a few pounds of muscle from my noob gains and I am satisfied with the amount I have right now.
Sure you did.
You were wondering what % deficit to take.
A deficit to your daily burn in what you eat is losing weight.
Or did you mean % increase actually, not deficit?
Everyone is just going off the words you used.
Are you mad about something?
I was under the impression that in order to cut fat I needed a deficit, in my case, a small one. Maybe I am horribly misinformed about how to cut fat while maintaining muscle mass. Maybe someone could enlighten me?
Not at all. Not sure where mad could have been gotten from there. Don't read emotion in to forum posts, it'll start skewing things.
I was just messing with you, I know you're not mad. You just doubted my muscle gains, which I found funny, because it was a totally unnecessary thing to add to your post. I promise, I'd never lie to you.0 -
well I would say no deficet.
At 5 ft 3 and 105lbs you are already in the low normal range for a healthy weight.
At 24% BF again in a normal range but I can understand why you want it lower.
At this point I would suggest a very low to no deficet (TDEE-5% at most) and start resistence training and do a recomp instead of losing anymore weight.
I didn't say I was losing weight. I'm cutting fat. I've actually gained weight since I began strength training. I lift heavy 4x/week, and am currently doing a recomp. I didn't add those details in my original post because I didn't think it'd be necessary, but I guess it would have been helpful.
So are you bulking and then doing a cut... or just have some water retention from weight training? Body fat is an issue because of poor body composition. It's actually not uncommon with those low in weight or under weight. Adding mass (bulk), followed by a short cut will help decrease overall body fat % and give you the results you want.
I had water retention from weight training when I began... not anymore.
I know I'm thin (small framed, born this way, once again) but before I began strength training I did not have any considerable muscle strength/mass, and I hardly ever exercised, let alone lifted heavy. I did not bulk before this because I made the gains I wanted to in the very beginning. There's your "adding mass" part; it may not be as significant as you'd prefer, but I don't want to gain more mass than I have because I am happy with the amount I've put on. In the future, I'll decide what I want to do, whether it be bulking or maintaining.
Recomp will definitely work, but it takes a lot of time and dedication. I worked with a woman for over a year to recomp from 26% body fat to 14.1%. Honestly, the best and fastest approach is a few bulk cut phases. You would be surprised at how lean you would become by doing so. Just look at the below. Staci had a few bulk phases and became even more lean each time.
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/0 -
Given your size I would go for maintenance and a recomp rather than cutting calories. It's not really that you have too much fat, just not enough muscle!
I am recomping, as I said in another one of my replies. Nowhere in my OP did I say I was trying to lose weight! I know I am underweight, I have been in the 25% percentile my entire life. I put on a few pounds of muscle from my noob gains and I am satisfied with the amount I have right now.
Sure you did.
You were wondering what % deficit to take.
A deficit to your daily burn in what you eat is losing weight.
Or did you mean % increase actually, not deficit?
Everyone is just going off the words you used.
Are you mad about something?
I was under the impression that in order to cut fat I needed a deficit, in my case, a small one. Maybe I am horribly misinformed about how to cut fat while maintaining muscle mass. Maybe someone could enlighten me?
Not at all. Not sure where mad could have been gotten from there. Don't read emotion in to forum posts, it'll start skewing things.
I was just messing with you, I know you're not mad. You just doubted my muscle gains, which I found funny, because it was a totally unnecessary thing to add to your post. I promise, I'd never lie to you.
May be confusing posts, I never doubted muscle gains, newbie gains totally possible.
I don't even see where I added anything about muscle gains to my post. Huh.
Edit to add:
Rereading, now I see where you thought I was talking about muscle gains.
But you need to reread the lines - they are all in context.
"sure you did" is followed by ..... ?
Therefore it was referring to the comment about ..... ?
There ya go.0 -
What is your ultimate goal because I am having trouble with you cutting body fat at your current age and height?
You're having trouble with it?
My "ultimate goal" is to be lean and maintain the muscle I built with my noob gains. Not to be skinny, not to lose weight, to be fit and healthy and maintaining my muscle. Why can everyone else do that but me just because of the way I'm built?
I am sure that didn't come across correctly as I was multi-tasking. I should have stated that your age and weight seemed appropriate. Now that you have posted additional details I agree with the recomposition of your weight as opposed to more weight loss. There isn't anything wrong with your built. You can do this with the correct method.0 -
I had water retention from weight training when I began... not anymore.
I know I'm thin (small framed, born this way, once again) but before I began strength training I did not have any considerable muscle strength/mass, and I hardly ever exercised, let alone lifted heavy. I did not bulk before this because I made the gains I wanted to in the very beginning. There's your "adding mass" part; it may not be as significant as you'd prefer, but I don't want to gain more mass than I have because I am happy with the amount I've put on. In the future, I'll decide what I want to do, whether it be bulking or maintaining.
Doesn't sound like you've figured out what you want ...
or ...
You don't realize the implications of what you are saying.
You want to drop bodyfat, fine.
You don't want to add more muscle mass, happy with that where it's at, fine.
You don't want to lose weight, fine.
Sadly - those 3 things don't go together.
To lose BF%, you either have to keep weight the same and increase muscle mass.
Or lose weight and it being all fat.
You can NOT accomplish what several of your comments have stated at the same time.
Alrighty.
When I say I don't want to lose weight, I follow it by saying "I just want to cut fat". Now, I know that cutting fat = losing weight. However, if I came right out and said "hey everyone I want to lose some weight", can you imagine the responses I would get? Even I would be concerned for myself. When people say "lose weight", a lot of the time they aren't distinguishing between fat and LBM. THAT is why I stay away from that phrase and instead use "cutting fat".
So, I know that in order to lose bf% I need to lose "weight", but that is all going to be fat, like you said in your post.
I know I very well may see a couple pounds lost on my scale weight, but it will all be fat.
Sorry to be so confusing! The last thing I needed was more accusations of unhealthiness, so I tried to use better wording for my goals. I'll keep in mind to be more clear next time.0 -
I think what you want is to eat AT TDEE and continue to lift. If you eat under TDEE you would probably lose LBM as well as fat.0
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Hi all, just a quick question I was hoping I could get some guidance on. I am beginning the TDEE method today, and I'm unsure of whether to cut at -20%, -15%, or -10%.
19, Female
5' 3"
105lbs
Small-framed and "apple" shaped
I do not have a lot of fat to cut because of my size, but my bf% estimation is somewhere around 24%, and I'd like to see myself at 18% and begin maintaining there. I have a pretty good indication of what I will look like at 18% because my mother and I are built the exact same, as in she is also small and we store fat in the same places, and 18% bf suited her very well back when she was working out.
Which percentage do you think I should cut at? Because of my size and my body composition overall I was thinking -10%.
Thanks!
Ok, try this again.
You do want to lose weight, because you do want to lose fat.
You do not want to gain any more muscle mass.
http://www.cordianet.com/calculator.htm
You want to eat TDEE style, same goal daily.
Use the calc on the right method 2, with retaining LBM.
And yes, 10% deficit is about what you'd need to retain existing muscle mass, that's not a problem with minor deficit, enough protein, and lifting - you got the trifecta.0 -
well I would say no deficet.
At 5 ft 3 and 105lbs you are already in the low normal range for a healthy weight.
At 24% BF again in a normal range but I can understand why you want it lower.
At this point I would suggest a very low to no deficet (TDEE-5% at most) and start resistence training and do a recomp instead of losing anymore weight.
I didn't say I was losing weight. I'm cutting fat. I've actually gained weight since I began strength training. I lift heavy 4x/week, and am currently doing a recomp. I didn't add those details in my original post because I didn't think it'd be necessary, but I guess it would have been helpful.
So are you bulking and then doing a cut... or just have some water retention from weight training? Body fat is an issue because of poor body composition. It's actually not uncommon with those low in weight or under weight. Adding mass (bulk), followed by a short cut will help decrease overall body fat % and give you the results you want.
I had water retention from weight training when I began... not anymore.
I know I'm thin (small framed, born this way, once again) but before I began strength training I did not have any considerable muscle strength/mass, and I hardly ever exercised, let alone lifted heavy. I did not bulk before this because I made the gains I wanted to in the very beginning. There's your "adding mass" part; it may not be as significant as you'd prefer, but I don't want to gain more mass than I have because I am happy with the amount I've put on. In the future, I'll decide what I want to do, whether it be bulking or maintaining.
Recomp will definitely work, but it takes a lot of time and dedication. I worked with a woman for over a year to recomp from 26% body fat to 14.1%. Honestly, the best and fastest approach is a few bulk cut phases. You would be surprised at how lean you would become by doing so. Just look at the below. Staci had a few bulk phases and became even more lean each time.
http://www.nerdfitness.com/blog/2011/07/21/meet-staci-your-new-powerlifting-super-hero/
I find Staci to be a good source of inspiration when it comes to lifting heavy, however, I don't desire her physique. I find her slightly too muscular for my liking, and it is not a look I'd want on myself.
I understand the bulking being something that works, though, and of course if I did bulk I would tailor it to my needs and I am sure I wouldn't end up looking like her. In the future I may try this, but right now, I feel as though what I am doing has been working for me. I've made some muscle gains and shed a little bit of fat. Just as an example, I can begin to see my abs showing, and I totally love that, and I love how much stronger I am now. I measure myself and I see myself becoming leaner and stronger.
I was thinking of continuing with all the work I've been doing because if I'm this close to looking at the desired leanness now, I must be doing at least *something* right. That's why I was here asking about my TDEE and deficit, not about whether I should bulk or not.
I appreciate the advice, though. I'm going to keep it all in mind for the future if I end up wanting more muscle.0 -
If you're wanting to lower your body fat and still build/maintain muscle then the lower the deficit the better. Slow and steady results at this point in the game. If you are wanting to build some more muscle, at some point, you may find that you need to do a bulk, followed by another cut.0
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Hi all, just a quick question I was hoping I could get some guidance on. I am beginning the TDEE method today, and I'm unsure of whether to cut at -20%, -15%, or -10%.
19, Female
5' 3"
105lbs
Small-framed and "apple" shaped
I do not have a lot of fat to cut because of my size, but my bf% estimation is somewhere around 24%, and I'd like to see myself at 18% and begin maintaining there. I have a pretty good indication of what I will look like at 18% because my mother and I are built the exact same, as in she is also small and we store fat in the same places, and 18% bf suited her very well back when she was working out.
Which percentage do you think I should cut at? Because of my size and my body composition overall I was thinking -10%.
Thanks!
Ok, try this again.
You do want to lose weight, because you do want to lose fat.
You do not want to gain any more muscle mass.
http://www.cordianet.com/calculator.htm
You want to eat TDEE style, same goal daily.
Use the calc on the right method 2, with retaining LBM.
And yes, 10% deficit is about what you'd need to retain existing muscle mass, that's not a problem with minor deficit, enough protein, and lifting - you got the trifecta.
Well that's what I'm going to do, then, because those are exactly my goals. Before when I was just using the MFP method I was doing essentially the same thing; eating at a small deficit, getting 80g+ of protein per day, and lifting. I just want to switch to TDEE because it looks easier.
The results on that calculator are alright. I was using the iifym.com calculator and got my TDEE -10% as 1560 at moderately active. That's what I'll be eating every day.
I like the part where it says under ideal weight "Small framed, 103 lbs"... more people should look at that.
Thanks man.0 -
0
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Oh nice. Well we're on the same page then
Now get out there and LIFT SOMETHING!! 0 -
Oh nice. Well we're on the same page then Now get out there and LIFT SOMETHING!!
You bet! 0 -
Ok, try this again.
You do want to lose weight, because you do want to lose fat.
You do not want to gain any more muscle mass.
http://www.cordianet.com/calculator.htm
You want to eat TDEE style, same goal daily.
Use the calc on the right method 2, with retaining LBM.
And yes, 10% deficit is about what you'd need to retain existing muscle mass, that's not a problem with minor deficit, enough protein, and lifting - you got the trifecta.
Well that's what I'm going to do, then, because those are exactly my goals. Before when I was just using the MFP method I was doing essentially the same thing; eating at a small deficit, getting 80g+ of protein per day, and lifting. I just want to switch to TDEE because it looks easier.
The results on that calculator are alright. I was using the iifym.com calculator and got my TDEE -10% as 1560 at moderately active. That's what I'll be eating every day.
I like the part where it says under ideal weight "Small framed, 103 lbs"... more people should look at that.
Thanks man.
I will comment that a lot of people find that iifym TDEE calc to greatly underestimate their real TDEE. And these are people going by results to calculate TDEE.
Meaning they lose 1/2 weekly for several weeks, and they ate this amount on average, then TDEE must be this figure.
But they find that site had their TDEE even lower, and if they had based deficit on it, would have lost even more. Meaning - a bigger deficit than they desired.
YMMV of course - but just watch the weight loss. For 10%, figure out how many days to hit 3500 calories, and that should be a pound.
If losing faster than that, it's underestimating for you too and may not want to lose your hard found gains in muscle mass.0 -
I find Staci to be a good source of inspiration when it comes to lifting heavy, however, I don't desire her physique. I find her slightly too muscular for my liking, and it is not a look I'd want on myself.
I understand the bulking being something that works, though, and of course if I did bulk I would tailor it to my needs and I am sure I wouldn't end up looking like her. In the future I may try this, but right now, I feel as though what I am doing has been working for me. I've made some muscle gains and shed a little bit of fat. Just as an example, I can begin to see my abs showing, and I totally love that, and I love how much stronger I am now. I measure myself and I see myself becoming leaner and stronger.
I was thinking of continuing with all the work I've been doing because if I'm this close to looking at the desired leanness now, I must be doing at least *something* right. That's why I was here asking about my TDEE and deficit, not about whether I should bulk or not.
I appreciate the advice, though. I'm going to keep it all in mind for the future if I end up wanting more muscle.
Keep in mind Staci's results are not something most people will even come close to. I always suggest looking at her 120 to 130 lb results, not her 130 to 140 as it's a bit extreme. But even if you look at her first 10 lbs, you will see how lean she got. Like I said, you can do a recomp, it's just going to take a lot longer than if you bulked/cut. Now you can always look to do a leangains program to help minimize fat gains, but it's inevitable to gain new fat when you gain new muscle. It's just how the anabolic process works.
It's personal preference. If you don't mind the wait game, then go recomp and be meticulous in your tracking.0 -
Given your size I would go for maintenance and a recomp rather than cutting calories. It's not really that you have too much fat, just not enough muscle!
I am recomping, as I said in another one of my replies. Nowhere in my OP did I say I was trying to lose weight! I know I am underweight, I have been in the 25% percentile my entire life. I put on a few pounds of muscle from my noob gains and I am satisfied with the amount I have right now.
Sure you did.
You were wondering what % deficit to take.
A deficit to your daily burn in what you eat is losing weight.
Or did you mean % increase actually, not deficit?
Everyone is just going off the words you used.
Are you mad about something?
I was under the impression that in order to cut fat I needed a deficit, in my case, a small one. Maybe I am horribly misinformed about how to cut fat while maintaining muscle mass. Maybe someone could enlighten me?
You are horribly misinformed. You can't just cut fat. With it you lose water and muscle. If you asked how much you should cut your TDEE by, then you're asking to lose weight. What you need to do is maintain your weight and lift weights. Do some research.0 -
You are horribly misinformed. You can't just cut fat. With it you lose water and muscle. .... Do some research.
Sure you can, all kinds of studies show they maintained not only muscle mass, but many times all their LBM, and their RMR, showing what made up the LBM didn't change either.
They needed small deficit, good protein, resistance training.
While I normally use this study to make a different point, the fact is the slow loss group actually gained LBM and muscle mass while losing fat.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
There are other studies where each group got the same deficit, just more protein for one, and they lost no LBM. And then many many studies with resistance training being the main factor, and no loss of LBM.
Now, some studies only measured LBM, not muscle mass like above study did with DEXA scan, so I suppose they could have retained LBM, lost muscle mass, and gained other components of LBM, but that would be huge assumption too.0 -
You are horribly misinformed. You can't just cut fat. With it you lose water and muscle. .... Do some research.
Sure you can, all kinds of studies show they maintained not only muscle mass, but many times all their LBM, and their RMR, showing what made up the LBM didn't change either.
They needed small deficit, good protein, resistance training.
While I normally use this study to make a different point, the fact is the slow loss group actually gained LBM and muscle mass while losing fat.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
There are other studies where each group got the same deficit, just more protein for one, and they lost no LBM. And then many many studies with resistance training being the main factor, and no loss of LBM.
Now, some studies only measured LBM, not muscle mass like above study did with DEXA scan, so I suppose they could have retained LBM, lost muscle mass, and gained other components of LBM, but that would be huge assumption too.
I could be wrong, but she is not an elite athlete and she is not working out or eating the required protein. Therefore if she wanted to eat at a deficit she would more than likely lose LBM along with fat.0 -
You are horribly misinformed. You can't just cut fat. With it you lose water and muscle. .... Do some research.
Sure you can, all kinds of studies show they maintained not only muscle mass, but many times all their LBM, and their RMR, showing what made up the LBM didn't change either.
They needed small deficit, good protein, resistance training.
While I normally use this study to make a different point, the fact is the slow loss group actually gained LBM and muscle mass while losing fat.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21558571
There are other studies where each group got the same deficit, just more protein for one, and they lost no LBM. And then many many studies with resistance training being the main factor, and no loss of LBM.
Now, some studies only measured LBM, not muscle mass like above study did with DEXA scan, so I suppose they could have retained LBM, lost muscle mass, and gained other components of LBM, but that would be huge assumption too.
I could be wrong, but she is not an elite athlete and she is not working out or eating the required protein. Therefore if she wanted to eat at a deficit she would more than likely lose LBM along with fat.
You know, sometimes reading the thread can help you make intelligent comments about it.
I recommend you do that if you think I'm not working out or eating enough protein. You, my friend, are horribly misinformed.0
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