We are pleased to announce that as of March 4, 2025, an updated Rich Text Editor has been introduced in the MyFitnessPal Community. To learn more about the changes, please click here. We look forward to sharing this new feature with you!

OMG – The Chemicalz

Acg67
Acg67 Posts: 12,142 Member
edited February 19 in Food and Nutrition
Combined with this post (http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1259056-year-of-no-sugar-reads-like-a-how-to-manual-for-an-ed) it probably covers the majority of the MFP posters

http://theness.com/neurologicablog/index.php/omg-the-chemicalz/
The Foodbabe is at it again – well, she never stopped being at it. She is apparently trying to make a career out of a combination of the naturalistic fallacy and chemical illiteracy.

I wrote previously about her campaign to scaremonger about completely safe ingredients in food. She called azodicarbonamide, an ingredient to make bread fluffier, the yoga mat chemical because it also has a variety of industrial uses, including making yoga mats. Soy also has a variety of uses, including making yoga mats.

She successfully marshaled her scientific illiteracy to pressure Subway into removing the ingredient from their bread.

Her modus operandi is simple – look at ingredient lists for names that sound like chemicals or are difficult to pronounce, bypass any scientific analysis or evidence and go straight to hyperbolic fearmongering. Then just hope that companies cave in order to avoid negative press before anyone can ask too many questions.

Her twitter feed recently contained this gem:

The #gross free cookies @doubletree – fake vanilla with “anti-freeze” ingredient + caramel color, sodium benzoate pic.twitter.com/nZIRv7dN3i



She calls propylene glycol the “anti-freeze ingredient.” That comment officially makes her the Jenny McCarthy of food.

Propylene glycol does indeed lower the freezing point of water, and you can use it as anti-freeze, which says exactly nothing about its safety as a food ingredient. For the record, the chemical in car anti-freeze is ethylene glycol, which is toxic. Propylene glycol is considered non-toxic and is used as an anti-freeze for water pipes and in food production where ingestion is possible.

A recent review of the toxicological literature for propylene glycol found essentially no risk to human health. The review concluded:

The existing safety evaluations of the FDA, USEPA, NTP and ATSDR for these compounds are consistent and point to the conclusion that the propyleneglycols present a very low risk to human health.

There is no need to quibble with this one – there is simply no evidence of risk to human health from this class of compounds. You would have to consume massive amounts of the chemical, impossible from food, in order to get anywhere near toxic levels.

But never mind all that sciencey-wiencey evidence – the Foodbabe has proclaimed it the anti-freeze chemical and declared it scary.


What about sodium benzoate? This is a food preservative which extends the shelf-life and safety of food. It is actually a metabolite of cinnamon. Not surprisingly, a review of the toxicology literature found that it was safe in the amounts found in food. There is a small risk of skin irritation, and we don’t have safety data for inhaling sodium benzoate, but the levels found in food are orders of magnitude lower than well-established safety limits.

Both of these compounds are considered GRAS by the FDA, or generally regarded as safe. There is simply no reason to worry about these food additives. They are as safe as any chemicals you will find in your food, even food considered to be entirely “natural.”

Conclusion

The naturalistic fallacy, the false and simplistic belief that things that are “natural” are somehow better or safer than substances which are synthetic, is perhaps the most pervasive bit of nonsense in our culture. Nature, in fact, does not care about us and many substances evolved specifically to be toxic or poisonous.

We, however, evolved an emotion of disgust as a heuristic for avoiding potentially contaminated or spoiled food. The point of emotions is to replace the need for careful analysis with an immediate reaction, one that is good enough in most circumstances and is likely to err on the side of false positives.

As a result we like our food to be wholesome and pure, and we have an innate fear of anything strange or unfamiliar. The concept of “natural” is a replacement for the notions of wholesome and pure, and aggressive marketing has encouraged people to think of “all natural” in such terms. It is likewise easy to fearmonger about unfamiliar substances in our food, especially if given by their chemical names, which make them sound synthetic.

We no longer have to rely upon emotions we evolved millions of years ago and which are not well adapted to our technological civilization. We can conduct scientific analysis, measure precise ingredients and amounts and study their effects on biological systems.

The Foodbabe, however, wants to replace careful analysis and evidence with, “Yuk, that sounds weird.” She feels this is a superior process to that used by world organizations that go through the bother of having experts review scientific evidence
.

Replies

  • This content has been removed.
  • This content has been removed.
  • CallMeCupcakeDammit
    CallMeCupcakeDammit Posts: 9,377 Member
    I went to a new pet store to see if they carried the food I've been buying for one of my dogs. One of the girls who works there told me they don't carry it, and said there is some scary stuff in the list of ingredients, "including propylene glycol, which is used in anti-freeze". Exactly what she told me. Ever since I learned that my non-man made apples contain naturally occurring formaldehyde, I stopped freaking out over every little thing before I'd done my own research. And when I did look at the list of ingredients, that wasn't even one of them.
  • YesIAm17
    YesIAm17 Posts: 817 Member
    If a beaver makes a dam or a bird makes a nest is that not natural? If it is then why is a house or road or synthetic chemical people make any different?
  • magerum
    magerum Posts: 12,589 Member
    In for no intelligent argument.
  • bcattoes
    bcattoes Posts: 17,299 Member
    Preach on.

    So tired of "natural". Everything is natural. Every single thing. We're not eating anything that comes from space (unless you wanna get technical and you realize that everything also came from space).

    If it has a chemical name you don't recognize and that scares you, it's your own ignorance you fear. "I don't know what that means! It could be anything!!" No. It's been tested for safety. You just don't know something.

    100% not man made/found in nature arsenic will kill you dead. Like a thousand other "naturally occurring" substances.

    What's with the fear of science? I don't understand. If scientists and laboratories and the like scare you so much...get off the internet immediately! Because that's 100% man made science.

    Um, no. Everything is not natural. There are synthetic food additives.
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    "Unfortunately, research-based refutation of fear mongering tends to be ineffective as those who are most prone to succumbing to such in the first place are also the least likely to apply critical thinking." -Wonderpug
  • This content has been removed.
  • Carnivor0us
    Carnivor0us Posts: 1,752 Member
    I went to a new pet store to see if they carried the food I've been buying for one of my dogs. One of the girls who works there told me they don't carry it, and said there is some scary stuff in the list of ingredients, "including propylene glycol, which is used in anti-freeze". Exactly what she told me. Ever since I learned that my non-man made apples contain naturally occurring formaldehyde, I stopped freaking out over every little thing before I'd done my own research. And when I did look at the list of ingredients, that wasn't even one of them.

    Propylene glycol shouldn't be in cat food, at least. It's toxic to cats. But I don't think it's toxic to dogs. But if you're buying Moist and Meaty it's a pretty ****ty dog food even without the PG.
  • CallMeCupcakeDammit
    CallMeCupcakeDammit Posts: 9,377 Member
    I went to a new pet store to see if they carried the food I've been buying for one of my dogs. One of the girls who works there told me they don't carry it, and said there is some scary stuff in the list of ingredients, "including propylene glycol, which is used in anti-freeze". Exactly what she told me. Ever since I learned that my non-man made apples contain naturally occurring formaldehyde, I stopped freaking out over every little thing before I'd done my own research. And when I did look at the list of ingredients, that wasn't even one of them.

    Propylene glycol shouldn't be in cat food, at least. It's toxic to cats. But I don't think it's toxic to dogs. But if you're buying Moist and Meaty it's a pretty ****ty dog food even without the PG.

    I generally just steer clear of anything with "animal digest" in it, since I know what "could" be in it.
  • eric_sg61
    eric_sg61 Posts: 2,925 Member
    IN B4 Big Food, Big Meat, and Big Dairy conspiracy
  • brookemart81
    brookemart81 Posts: 62 Member
    Every I come across a blogger or a casual friend on Facebook mindlessly inciting people to "avoid any ingredients you can't pronounce" I want to beat them over the head with a Chemistry 101 textbook.
  • mg1123
    mg1123 Posts: 69 Member
    Sorry if I'm reviving a dead thread, but this thread came up in a search. Apologies if this is too long and boring to read.

    I agree with your points about the fear mongering. I have an issue with people making scientific claims with no scientific background "OMG it is one molecule away from plastic!" And then you can point out that CO is only one molecule away from CO(2), and one can kill you but the other keeps you alive.

    However, I am sharing a personal experience that you can take or leave. I am wrapping up the challenge phase of an elimination diet, where I am testing a different food item every three days. Yesterday's challenge was benzoate. I ended up using a pineapple soda (full sugar - HFCS) for the challenge. It seemed to go fine throughout the day, as I increased amounts. I finished up with one cup of the soda and then actually marked my spreadsheet that there was no apparent reaction. Until a couple hours later, when I started developing a terrible headache, feeling a bit of brain fog, and slight blurriness of eyesight.

    I was looking at the ingredients and comparing to the diet cherry 7up that I drank nearly every night prior to starting the elimination diet, and they had in common citric acid and benzoate. I wonder if the amount of time the soda spends on the shelf is the bigger issue, where it allows the breakdown into benzene. Whatever the case, I had already decided that I would kick the soda habit and not go back when this is done.

    Could I be wrong about the benzoate? Possibly. Will it hurt to avoid it? No. Any more than it will hurt to avoid sulfites, even though I had no symptoms after eating dried fruit containing it (other than the fruit was so sweet it was kind of sickening).

    I feel that I have kept an open mind about the foods I've tested - especially since some of the things I thought I would have a problem with I didn't, and others I expected to be fine were problematic. At this point, I've only found a problem with three groups: dairy (which causes me to produce massive amounts of phlegm), peanuts (awful stomach pains), and now benzoates. With having to give up dairy, I'll have to give up a lot of processed foods anyway, since it seems to be in a ridiculous amount of foods.

    WebMD has a brief blurb about benzoates: http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/the-truth-about-seven-common-food-additives?page=3
  • jonnythan
    jonnythan Posts: 10,161 Member
    And then you can point out that CO is only one molecule away from CO(2), and one can kill you but the other keeps you alive.

    wut
  • mg1123
    mg1123 Posts: 69 Member
    And then you can point out that CO is only one molecule away from CO(2), and one can kill you but the other keeps you alive.

    wut
    Carbon Dioxide is used in photosynthesis by plants which produce oxygen. Carbon Monoxide = death.
  • mg1123
    mg1123 Posts: 69 Member
    And then you can point out that CO is only one molecule away from CO(2), and one can kill you but the other keeps you alive.

    wut
    Carbon Dioxide is used in photosynthesis by plants which produce oxygen. Carbon Monoxide = death.
    Or another one, if it makes you happy, H2 O2 would be very, very bad to drink. H2 O is very good to drink. Only one molecule difference.
  • LoupGarouTFTs
    LoupGarouTFTs Posts: 916 Member
    What about the citric acid?
  • FunkyTobias
    FunkyTobias Posts: 1,776 Member
    And then you can point out that CO is only one molecule away from CO(2), and one can kill you but the other keeps you alive.

    wut
    Carbon Dioxide is used in photosynthesis by plants which produce oxygen. Carbon Monoxide = death.
    Or another one, if it makes you happy, H2 O2 would be very, very bad to drink. H2 O is very good to drink. Only one molecule difference.

    30855017.jpg
This discussion has been closed.