Consciousness as a State of Matter?
http://arxiv.org/abs/1401.1219
What is consciousness? What do you think about the hypothesis that it could be a state of matter?
We examine the hypothesis that consciousness can be understood as a state of matter, "perceptronium", with distinctive information processing abilities. We explore five basic principles that may distinguish conscious matter from other physical systems such as solids, liquids and gases: the information, integration, independence, dynamics and utility principles. If such principles can identify conscious entities, then they can help solve the quantum factorization problem: why do conscious observers like us perceive the particular Hilbert space factorization corresponding to classical space (rather than Fourier space, say), and more generally, why do we perceive the world around us as a dynamic hierarchy of objects that are strongly integrated and relatively independent? Tensor factorization of matrices is found to play a central role, and our technical results include a theorem about Hamiltonian separability (defined using Hilbert-Schmidt superoperators) being maximized in the energy eigenbasis. Our approach generalizes Giulio Tononi's integrated information framework for neural-network-based consciousness to arbitrary quantum systems, and we find interesting links to error-correcting codes, condensed matter criticality, and the Quantum Darwinism program, as well as an interesting connection between the emergence of consciousness and the emergence of time.
What is consciousness? What do you think about the hypothesis that it could be a state of matter?
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Replies
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this is so above my head i got an aneurysm0
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Spank/dance...oh wait, wrong thread.
No way is my actual answer.0 -
I'm gonna need some Camel Wides, an 1/8th of ditch weed, 2 hits of Felix the Cat, a time machine to take me back to 1993 and a box of crayons to think properly on this. I'll be in the corner staring at the wall for the next 6-8 hours. Please put Live Dead on the stereo and check on me once an hour or so0
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Spank/dance...oh wait, wrong thread.
No way is my actual answer.
^ i refer to her for all non medical responses0 -
this is so above my head i got an aneurysm
^^^This0 -
Did you google "Stuff that nobody will understand" and just quote it? I see what you did there...0
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Spank/dance...oh wait, wrong thread.
No way is my actual answer.
^ i refer to her for all non medical responses
Psttt, say "no".
Oh, and hand me some of those crayons as well.0 -
The matter of consciousness is a state of being0
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Do you know how to do the spider thing to my hands. It'd be cool if you did but hey...what did that guy say earlier about that thing. Want to color?Spank/dance...oh wait, wrong thread.
No way is my actual answer.
^ i refer to her for all non medical responses
Psttt, say "no".
Oh, and hand me some of those crayons as well.0 -
Spank/dance...oh wait, wrong thread.
No way is my actual answer.
^ i refer to her for all non medical responses
Psttt, say "no".
Oh, and hand me some of those crayons as well.
*hands aly crayons and cupcakes*
tell megan to put a pizza in the oven0 -
"why do conscious observers like us perceive the particular Hilbert space factorization corresponding to classical space (rather than Fourier space, say), and more generally, why do we perceive the world around us as a dynamic hierarchy of objects that are strongly integrated and relatively independent? Tensor factorization of matrices is found to play a central role, and our technical results include a theorem about Hamiltonian separability (defined using Hilbert-Schmidt superoperators) being maximized in the energy eigenbasis."
^^ Ok, I think I found the actual hypothesis amidst all that dense writing. Some questions and then we can talk about consciousness as defined by this piece of writing: (and these are just the questions from this small part)
What is a particular Hilbert space factorization and what is "classical space"?
and what is "Tensor factorization of matrices"?
oh yes, and "Hamilton separability" ?
Simplest explanations possible please!
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a) Yes to color.
b) I will show you the Cat's Cradle (which i am assuming is the "hand spider thing") when i am done with my cupcake as i await my pizza.
I think that is the answer.0 -
I read the abstract as "The universe is a neural network."
I don't understand the high end physics obviously, but the concept is interesting because there is effectively no other way to explain the emergent phenomenon of consciousness without describing it as a latent property within matter itself.
At some point in time, "dumb" matter with no apparent ability perceive reality is organized in such a way that it eventually becomes self-aware.
How the **** does that work?0 -
I just lost my mind laughing while reading the "Warnings"
Warnings
•Do not pinch your friend/assistant too hard.
•Don't scare your friend/assistant into thinking something crazy, like you are pulling HUGE chunks of old skin and germs off their hand. This may scare them.
HAHAHAHA!0 -
google or read the books by David Icke, he has a great theory on Consciousness.
Its a good question and the sort of question that needs to be asked more often I believe.
My question would be are we the universe experiencing itself? ?0 -
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My question would be are we the universe experiencing itself? ?
pretty much in the most basic way of understanding it, yes0 -
Consciousness cannot BE matter, but *could* be a collective function of matter.
I believe in spirit, personally.0 -
This content has been removed.
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in to see if I can decode later...0
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*Googling to see if this comes in simpler terms* I never claimed to be a smart geek!0
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Interesting idea. While I don't have time to read the entire article at the moment, I think it's important to keep in mind that;
"...consciousness can be understood as a state of matter." =/= Consciousness can be understood to be a state of matter. It can be, of course, if that is the intent and the interpretation agrees with it, but not necessarily.
I'm not sure how absolutely it can be held that conscious understanding is a state of matter, but rather, that the model of matter's various states and how they interact is tantamount to the interactions of the processes (whatever they might be) that lead to conscious understanding.
It seems more reasonable to me, to say that consciousness exists somewhere in the interaction between matter's various states, not as a state of matter itself. But like I said...I haven't read it yet, so I could be wrong on that.0 -
This gave me a brain-gasm.
Consciousness as matter...hmm
Well in the literal sense of the word, matter is defined as
"physical substance in general, as distinct from mind and spirit; (in physics) that which occupies space and possesses rest mass, especially as distinct from energy."
State of matter is defined as:
The three traditional states of matter are solids (fixed shape and volume) and liquids (fixed volume and shaped by the container) and gases (filling the container)
In my mentally feeble assessment... Consciousness does not possess rest mass (unless you want to deem the weight of your brain as the mass of consciousness :laugh:), so I would think that literally it is not matter. Even in a gaseous state, matter is measurable... and consciousness in not done so in a tangible way. People may perceive "consciousness" in another being... but cannot logically measure if that is the case.
Is consciousness defined as brain wave activity? If so, then it is measurable in some fashion.... but I've always thought consciousness was more than that...
hmmm
*drifts off into a happy place*0 -
it's gobbledy-goop.
that abstract is written to be intentionally confusing.
it's something i'd expect Johnathan Swift to have written as a parody of scientific jibberish.
seems like a fake paper or an April Fools hoax to me.:laugh:0 -
http://arxiv.org/abs/1401.1219We examine the hypothesis that consciousness can be understood as a state of matter, "perceptronium", with distinctive information processing abilities. We explore five basic principles that may distinguish conscious matter from other physical systems such as solids, liquids and gases: the information, integration, independence, dynamics and utility principles. If such principles can identify conscious entities, then they can help solve the quantum factorization problem: why do conscious observers like us perceive the particular Hilbert space factorization corresponding to classical space (rather than Fourier space, say), and more generally, why do we perceive the world around us as a dynamic hierarchy of objects that are strongly integrated and relatively independent? Tensor factorization of matrices is found to play a central role, and our technical results include a theorem about Hamiltonian separability (defined using Hilbert-Schmidt superoperators) being maximized in the energy eigenbasis. Our approach generalizes Giulio Tononi's integrated information framework for neural-network-based consciousness to arbitrary quantum systems, and we find interesting links to error-correcting codes, condensed matter criticality, and the Quantum Darwinism program, as well as an interesting connection between the emergence of consciousness and the emergence of time.
What is consciousness? What do you think about the hypothesis that it could be a state of matter?
This added one more example to my MFP wormhole theory.0 -
This gave me a brain-gasm.
Consciousness as matter...hmm
Well in the literal sense of the word, matter is defined as
"physical substance in general, as distinct from mind and spirit; (in physics) that which occupies space and possesses rest mass, especially as distinct from energy."
State of matter is defined as:
The three traditional states of matter are solids (fixed shape and volume) and liquids (fixed volume and shaped by the container) and gases (filling the container)
In my mentally feeble assessment... Consciousness does not possess rest mass (unless you want to deem the weight of your brain as the mass of consciousness :laugh:), so I would think that literally it is not matter. Even in a gaseous state, matter is measurable... and consciousness in not done so in a tangible way. People may perceive "consciousness" in another being... but cannot logically measure if that is the case.
Is consciousness defined as brain wave activity? If so, then it is measurable in some fashion.... but I've always thought consciousness was more than that...
hmmm
*drifts off into a happy place*
That's why I think that, based only on the abstract, it is more a case of understanding the processes of conscious thought in the same way that we understand the states of matter. They may be based on a similar model, as opposed to kindred substance.0 -
it's gobbledy-goop.
that abstract is written to be intentionally confusing.
it's something i'd expect Johnathan Swift to have written as a parody of scientific jibberish.
seems like a fake paper or an April Fools hoax to me.:laugh:
High likelihood. *nods* true story.0 -
If you can tolerate the author, Orson Scott Card does some interesting stuff with concepts similar to this in his Ender series, you have to go past Speaker for the Dead (his best book in my opinion), but the books after that deal heavily with the realization of consciousness etc. He's toying with it some in Ender's Game, and more so in speaker, but it's later in the series where he really tries to flesh the concept out.0
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