Macros - Protein per lb or kg?

Again, I supported my recommendation with the statements in the study that was linked. Also, personally I get that protein / day and have had awesome results.

What else do you base recommendations on?

The abstract you posted in no way supports your recommendation. It explicitly states that there is no support for your recommendation.

http://www.jissn.com/content/3/1/7
Utilizing regression analysis and adding a safety buffer of 2 SD units, the protein needs to acquire zero nitrogen balance was calculated to be 1.6–1.7 g·kg-1·day-1
In fact, a number of reviews from respected authorities have surfaced on dietary protein requirements which have ranged form 1.2–2.2 grams of protein per kg of bodyweight

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24092765
Protein needs for energy-restricted resistance-trained athletes are likely 2.3-3.1g/kg of FFM [1 - 1.4 g/lb of FFM where FFM = fat free mass] scaled upwards with severity of caloric restriction and leanness.

http://www.jissn.com/content/pdf/1550-2783-10-53.pdf
Lemon et al. [61] displayed that novice bodybuilders
required a protein intake of 1.6-1.7 g/kg/day to
remain in a non-negative nitrogen balance. The increased
protein requirements in novice subjects have
been attributed to changes in muscle protein synthetic
rate and the need to sustain greater lean mass rather
than increased fuel utilization [62]. There is some evidence
that protein requirements actually decrease
slightly to approximately 1.4 g/kg/day in well-trained individuals
because of a greater efficiency in dietary nitrogen
utilization [63], although this hypothesis needs
further study.


These are recommendations supported by actual evidence. 1-1.4 grams per lb of lean mass, or up to 2.2 grams per kg of bodyweight.

Again, I supported my recommendation with the statements in the study that was linked. Also, personally I get that protein / day and have had awesome results.

What else do you base recommendations on?

The abstract you posted in no way supports your recommendation. It explicitly states that there is no support for your recommendation.

http://www.jissn.com/content/3/1/7
Utilizing regression analysis and adding a safety buffer of 2 SD units, the protein needs to acquire zero nitrogen balance was calculated to be 1.6–1.7 g·kg-1·day-1
In fact, a number of reviews from respected authorities have surfaced on dietary protein requirements which have ranged form 1.2–2.2 grams of protein per kg of bodyweight

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24092765
Protein needs for energy-restricted resistance-trained athletes are likely 2.3-3.1g/kg of FFM [1 - 1.4 g/lb of FFM where FFM = fat free mass] scaled upwards with severity of caloric restriction and leanness.

http://www.jissn.com/content/pdf/1550-2783-10-53.pdf
Lemon et al. [61] displayed that novice bodybuilders
required a protein intake of 1.6-1.7 g/kg/day to
remain in a non-negative nitrogen balance. The increased
protein requirements in novice subjects have
been attributed to changes in muscle protein synthetic
rate and the need to sustain greater lean mass rather
than increased fuel utilization [62]. There is some evidence
that protein requirements actually decrease
slightly to approximately 1.4 g/kg/day in well-trained individuals
because of a greater efficiency in dietary nitrogen
utilization [63], although this hypothesis needs
further study.


These are recommendations supported by actual evidence. 1-1.4 grams per lb of lean mass, or up to 2.2 grams per kg of bodyweight.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24092765
Protein needs for energy-restricted resistance-trained athletes are likely 2.3-3.1g/kg of FFM [1 - 1.4 g/lb of FFM where FFM = fat free mass] scaled upwards with severity of caloric restriction and leanness.

Dude, you found another study that even exceeds my recommendation. ---- 3.1 g / kg.


"These are recommendations supported by actual evidence (ed: because they're studies you presented?). 1-1.4 grams per lb of lean mass, or up to 2.2 grams per kg of bodyweight."


And 1.4 grams / lb is the same as 3 g / kg.

/Drops microphone, walks off stage

Again, I supported my recommendation with the statements in the study that was linked. Also, personally I get that protein / day and have had awesome results.

What else do you base recommendations on?

The abstract you posted in no way supports your recommendation. It explicitly states that there is no support for your recommendation.

http://www.jissn.com/content/3/1/7
Utilizing regression analysis and adding a safety buffer of 2 SD units, the protein needs to acquire zero nitrogen balance was calculated to be 1.6–1.7 g·kg-1·day-1
In fact, a number of reviews from respected authorities have surfaced on dietary protein requirements which have ranged form 1.2–2.2 grams of protein per kg of bodyweight

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24092765
Protein needs for energy-restricted resistance-trained athletes are likely 2.3-3.1g/kg of FFM [1 - 1.4 g/lb of FFM where FFM = fat free mass] scaled upwards with severity of caloric restriction and leanness.

http://www.jissn.com/content/pdf/1550-2783-10-53.pdf
Lemon et al. [61] displayed that novice bodybuilders
required a protein intake of 1.6-1.7 g/kg/day to
remain in a non-negative nitrogen balance. The increased
protein requirements in novice subjects have
been attributed to changes in muscle protein synthetic
rate and the need to sustain greater lean mass rather
than increased fuel utilization [62]. There is some evidence
that protein requirements actually decrease
slightly to approximately 1.4 g/kg/day in well-trained individuals
because of a greater efficiency in dietary nitrogen
utilization [63], although this hypothesis needs
further study.


These are recommendations supported by actual evidence. 1-1.4 grams per lb of lean mass, or up to 2.2 grams per kg of bodyweight.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24092765
Protein needs for energy-restricted resistance-trained athletes are likely 2.3-3.1g/kg of FFM [1 - 1.4 g/lb of FFM where FFM = fat free mass] scaled upwards with severity of caloric restriction and leanness.

Dude, you found another study that even exceeds my recommendation. ---- 3.1 g / kg.


"These are recommendations supported by actual evidence (ed: because they're studies you presented?). 1-1.4 grams per lb of lean mass, or up to 2.2 grams per kg of bodyweight."


And 1.4 grams / lb is the same as 3 g / kg.

/Drops microphone, walks off stage

3.1 grams per kg of FFM. That's 1.4 grams of protein per lb of lean mass. Not body mass. Lean mass.

Lean mass is not body mass.

/hears his name being chanted

Lean mass is less than body mass....

/drops microphone, walks off stage

/hears his name being chanted

Lean mass is less than body mass....

/drops microphone, walks off stage

Math isn't your strong suit, is it. I

Let's take an example to make it more concrete.

At a protein intake of 3 grams per kg of bodyweight, which is your recommendation, a 190-lb 40% body fat woman would require 259 grams of protein.

The protein intake recommended by actual scientific evidence, which is 3 grams per kg of FFM at the high end, gives a recommended intake of 155 grams of protein.

So 3 grams per kg of bodyweight for this person would be 259 grams. 3 grams per kg of FFM would be 155 grams.

Also, your recommendation for this person would work out to be 5 grams per kg of FFM, which is 67% more than the maximum level actually recommended by scientific study.

I understand that you're coming from a "more is better!" perspective, and that, as a very lean male, the difference between your FFM and total mass isn't that large.

But not everyone is you.

Adjust your recommendations to be in line with the scientific literature.

/hears his name being chanted

Lean mass is less than body mass....

/drops microphone, walks off stage

Math isn't your strong suit, is it. I

Let's take an example to make it more concrete.

At a protein intake of 3 grams per kg of bodyweight, which is your recommendation, a 190-lb 40% body fat woman would require 259 grams of protein.

The protein intake recommended by actual scientific evidence, which is 3 grams per kg of FFM at the high end, gives a recommended intake of 155 grams of protein.

So 3 grams per kg of bodyweight for this person would be 259 grams. 3 grams per kg of FFM would be 155 grams.

Well *kitten*. High fat % does debunk that. I still stick with it for lean/trained individuals.

Or you could go to a more generalized recommendation that's supported by science, instead of a made-up one that gets close in some instances.

/hears his name being chanted

Lean mass is less than body mass....

/drops microphone, walks off stage

Math isn't your strong suit, is it. I

Let's take an example to make it more concrete.

At a protein intake of 3 grams per kg of bodyweight, which is your recommendation, a 190-lb 40% body fat woman would require 259 grams of protein.

The protein intake recommended by actual scientific evidence, which is 3 grams per kg of FFM at the high end, gives a recommended intake of 155 grams of protein.

So 3 grams per kg of bodyweight for this person would be 259 grams. 3 grams per kg of FFM would be 155 grams.

Well *kitten*. High fat % does debunk that. I still stick with it for lean/trained individuals.

For lean/trained individuals who happen to be male FFM is probably quite close to actual body mass so it's not going to be super relevant.

For non-lean individuals, females who aren't SUPER lean, or non-trained individuals, your recommendation is unnecessarily high and is likely to be expensive and unnecessary (can you imagine a 200 kg guy trying to meet this recommendation)?

Why not just recommend the 3g/kg of FFM that *is* supported by science instead?