Getting this off my chest...

bajoyba · May 2014

I don't see many obese 90 year olds walking around.
I also don't see many pack-a-day-smoking 90 year olds walking around.

That's not a judgement, and it doesn't de-value anyone as a person. It's not a guarantee that everyone who smokes or is obese will definitely die of smoking or obesity related issues. But there certainly are risk factors associated with both lifestyles, and it's important that people are aware of them. If someone has all the info and makes a conscious decision to continue smoking, or if someone prefers to be overweight (some people do), that's fine with me.

My grandma is 91 and lives in an assisted living community with other people who are still very mobile and pretty self-sufficient. She is not obese and has never smoked. Most of the people in her building are also in their 80's and 90's. None of them are obese, and none of them smoke. I'm sure good genes contribute a great deal toward living that long, but I think certain lifestyle choices play a pretty big role as well.

Honestly, I didn't decide to lose weight because of the health problems associated with obesity. I just wanted to lose weight because I didn't feel like myself and my body was uncomfortable basically all the time. But there are so many things to die of as it is, so I don't really mind taking a few variables off the table.

vastiris · May 2014

I think what happens to many people is they confuse the word "risk" with the word "will."
Yes, people who smoke have a higher risk of developing lung cancer
Yes, people who are overweight/obese have a higher risk of developing heart disease and diabetes.
They forget that genetics also plays a part in our health over the long term, as well as our diet/activities

Case in point: My mother never smoked a day in her life. Neither did her parents. She didn't care to be around smokers as well, it played havoc with her allergies so she would remove herself. She passed with lung cancer.

My Dad had a physically demanding job, wasn't overweight, didn't drink, didn't smoke, and ate healthy all his life. His diet comprised of mostly veg and fruit, chicken, fish, very little red meat an very few sweets. He wasn't a fan of fast food, always said it didn't taste right, so he rarely ate it. Heart disease killed him at age 60.

After looking into my family history I learned that there is evidence of heart disease and various cancers stretching back several generations. So what does that tell me? It says that my genetics could play a significant factor in my long term health. It says that I have a higher risk for those diseases. What can I do about it? I certainly cant change my genetics, its there and it is what it is. I can however... reduce my RISK. I can eat healthier, exercise, I avoided taking hormone replacement during menopause (breast and uterine cancer are a risk for me) I want to do everything I can to insure that I die as a old old woman

^ This.

I think this person said it better than I did!

Lofteren · May 2014

What?

^This. That all or nothing attitude you hear coming from people regarding bodyfat and disease is there for a reason.

NorahCait · May 2014

My issue is that people hold overweight and obese people to a higher standard. If a relatively thing person eats nothing but junk and doesn't exercise, people aren't always telling them they should start eating better and start exercising. Furthermore, I bet their doctor's don't jump to "eat better and exercise more" for every health problem they have, regardless of whether it's related to their habits.

Size isn't everything. It's part of a larger picture.

ETA: I guess the other part that really bothers me is people who think the constant "lose weight" messages are new or helpful. You don't know what's going on with anyone else, so unless you are *their* doctor* and you know their story, just stay out of it unless someone asks for advice or commentary.

*Even with doctors, there can be bias. I had a medical issue that had nothing to do with my weight and had a doctor refuse to run tests or treat me for it until I lost weight. The next doctor I saw was appalled and got me started on a treatment plan right away. Guess what? Dealing with the thing causing me constant pain helped me start improving my lifestyle, leading to a bit of weight loss.

Lofteren · May 2014

Most of us are members of the MFP community for health, fitness, and accountability, so in some way we can generally agree that getting nutrition and physical activities in order is a good thing overall. With that said, even science (as a discipline) is not without its biases and cultural worldview (although some would make you believe otherwise). Although I do believe the research that obesity *does* come with increased health risks (as mentioned in this thread), I also see what the original poster is saying. Even if it's not scientists, I have personally witnessed people speak in terms of absolutes that you *will* die if you are overweight (as if the rest of the population is somehow immortal, lol). Yes, the folks who engage in behavior that risks their health while managing to live a long time are outliers/an anomaly, we cannot look at someone's body and know exactly how much time they have left on earth.

Statistics do not have a cultural worldview.

Statistics indicate that people who are obese and who smoke do not live as long as those who are a healthy weight and don't smoke. Why is this even a conversation?

dangerousdumpling · May 2014

To me, messages like those mentioned above are condescending, implying that fat people are too stupid to get out of their own way, so they need fitness experts and other related people to tell us what we should be doing. Is anyone else irritated by this messaging, or am I being too sensitive?

Yes you are being too sensitive...a lot of overweight/obese people think because their blood work and numbers are fine they are fine just the way they are...and need to be told differently...if you get that you are too stupid from those messages...Yah that's your issue not the issue with the message.

Agreed. We're all sensitive about being overweight. I'm not picking on you, I'm overweight too, but taking offense to an article that warns about very likely eventual realities for the obese is getting in your own way. Instead of focusing on taking offense to info in the article shift your focus to making sure you don't have to experience those things in the future. Instead of getting annoyed that someone is telling you 'this could be you in x number of years' think to yourself 'I am going to make sure that won't be me'.

Rags2Righteous · May 2014

Most of us are members of the MFP community for health, fitness, and accountability, so in some way we can generally agree that getting nutrition and physical activities in order is a good thing overall. With that said, even science (as a discipline) is not without its biases and cultural worldview (although some would make you believe otherwise). Although I do believe the research that obesity *does* come with increased health risks (as mentioned in this thread), I also see what the original poster is saying. Even if it's not scientists, I have personally witnessed people speak in terms of absolutes that you *will* die if you are overweight (as if the rest of the population is somehow immortal, lol). Yes, the folks who engage in behavior that risks their health while managing to live a long time are outliers/an anomaly, we cannot look at someone's body and know exactly how much time they have left on earth.

Statistics do not have a cultural worldview.

Statistics indicate that people who are obese and who smoke do not live as long as those who are a healthy weight and don't smoke. Why is this even a conversation?

I hear what you're saying, but as a social scientist, I also know that research is not always completely objective. That's just a side note. But back to the issue at hand...

At the end of the day, I am saying I understand what the original poster is pointing out: just the simple fact that the data can be used as a predictor, but is not the fate of everyone in the population. It's not always an either/or, but sometimes an and/both (it's possible to accept the data and also be cognizant of the truth that there are exceptions). I'm not debating or ignoring the health risks of obesity, and I personally don't want to find out firsthand the ways it can be detrimental to one's health. I think the original poster was just saying that she's tired of hearing people pronounce the death of others just because they fall into a certain category (which in this case, happens to be obesity). I am here on MFP because I want to take accountability for my health and take better care of myself, not out of shame and fear.

Edited to include quote...

gotolam · May 2014

I'm not saying being Obese isn't a risk. I myself am obese and trying to lose weight. I'm under no delusions that there are zero health risks associated. I'm just seeing too much stuff lately that basically says "YOU NEED TO LOSE WEIGHT OR YOU'LL DIE!"

Obese people are going to die.

So will non-obese people.I think the bigger question is how you choose on living your life.

There are so many things wrong with your OP I don't even know where to begin. I'm sorry if this sounds condescending to you, but it sounds a lot like you're justifying. There IS NO SUCH THING as a healthy obese person. At the moment, you may not have high BP, sleep apnea, trouble breathing, joint pain etc; but it is coming. Your knees are not designed to carry that much excess weight. Your heart is not designed to pump blood to that much body mass -- Your arteries are not designed to work with that much plaque in them.

Choose how you want to live. I don't think you're stupid or any less of a person who is not overweight. Lord knows I was overweight at the beginning of this year. But don't cry foul when someone points out to you that it's not healthy. It isn't.

martinel2099 · May 2014

I frankly don't care what the media says, I'm working to lose weight and gain muscle mass so I can look and feel better, not because I'm classified as a gross or stupid human being. You can die at any time in your life, being fat or skinny doesn't matter if you're hit by a bus or struck my lightning. However by staying Obese studies have shown that you will be susceptible to certain diseases and health complications.

I might not know when I'm going to die, but I can improve my quality of life in the mean time, that's what this is about for me. Losing weight and keeping it off can only help, not really sure how it could make things worse.

JustinAnimal · May 2014

Smokers aren't automatically considered unhealthy because they'll probably get cancer down the road.

What planet do you live on?

I mean, maybe no one says out loud, "You WILL get cancer," but I can't think of too many people in the West who would openly say smoking isn't unhealthy.

Sabine_Stroehm · May 2014

Statistics.

And health care/insurance propaganda.

gotolam · May 2014

Smokers aren't automatically considered unhealthy because they'll probably get cancer down the road.

What planet do you live on?

I mean, maybe no one says out loud, "You WILL get cancer," but I can't think of too many people in the West who would openly say smoking isn't unhealthy.

This!

I'm a smoker and I don't think smoking is healthy. I certainly don't get offended when an article says smokers will die younger than non-smokers. Holy crap why in the hell is this even a conversation????

tbrown1974 · May 2014

At my current weight, I'm considered obese. I look at myself and see fat, not necessarily obese but it is what it is.

Every year, i have a physical exam including blood work. The only issue I normally have and that I have had since I was 15 is that I'm usually borderline anemic. No other issues. I am considered overweight but healthy in my current condition. That does not make me content, just lucky I guess. I don't use that as an argument or an excuse not to lose weight because I think at any time, my weight will be a factor or is currently a hidden factor. Luckily I found MFP and slowly but surely losing weight and I feel good about this journey.

Hornsby · May 2014

If you are obese, you are unhealthy. Just being obese, with no other issues, is still unhealthy mentally and physically in the present in my opinion.

emkrichardson · May 2014

I appreciate the different perspectives. My issue is not with the idea that being obese puts you at greater risk for health problems. I get that. My issue is with the judgement that comes with it. The research is sound, but people take the research, stating what could happen, and take it into terms of the absolute. I'm not arguing with the data, but how other people treat the data and lord it over others.

It's kind of like the difference between Christians and the people who walk around shoving their beliefs down everyone's throat. Very different branches of the same tree.

Confuzzled4ever · May 2014

my mom is healthy. she's obese but has all the right number for HR, cholesterol, BP other labs etc.. She does have MS, so she can't walk far due to that. Her and I are under no illusion that she is "healthy" . We just accept her for who she is and deal with issues as they arise. I am here because Id o not want to be in her shoes when I am in my 60s. It is proven that obesity increases chances for a mirad of health concerns. I'd rather not risk it.

tbrown1974 · May 2014

I would argue that I'm not mentally unhealthy. I know where I am and where I need to go and am getting there. If that makes me mentally unhealthy, I will take it. I guess i was just pointing out the fact that when I said I'm healthy, I'm just saying i have no known issues. But I know that change any minute which is why I'm here and am losing weight. That's it. My main point is just because I don't have any current or known issues, doesn't mean I use that as an excuse to lose weight. It will always be a factor until I'm to healthier weight.

JustinAnimal · May 2014

People typically get angry and judgmental at obese people and smokers because, somewhere down the road, taxpayers end up supporting the medical bills they can't afford.

At least, this is the belief I've held as truth most of my life. The people who don't take care of themselves and do things to hurt themselves, obese people and smokers (and maybe bungee jumpers who practice in Mexico) are a drain on the economy.

I will be the first to admit that I'm barely involved in politics so, if this has changed, or was never true, please correct me so I don't keep talking crazy talk.

wheird · May 2014

OP, I am glad that you got this off your chest.

But we agree that obesity is a risk factor for several diseases...so I am not sure what we are arguing here.

There are exceptions to the rule, but a person at a healthy weight is far more likely to live longer, with better quality of life, than an obese person.

tbrown1974 · May 2014

I think we can all agree to this, wheird.

OP, I am glad that you got this off your chest.

But we agree that obesity is a risk factor for several diseases...so I am not sure what we are arguing here.

There are exceptions to the rule, but a person at a healthy weight is far more likely to live longer, with better quality of life, than an obese person.

DucklingtoSwan · May 2014

OP, I think I understand what you are getting at, though everyone's mileage can and will vary. I saw a couple of TLC programs about some morbidly obese people trying to make changes in their lives... one week there was a woman about 400 pounds who was bedridden, hadn't walked in years and was on every medication known to science for diabetes, blood pressure, etc. the next week there was a man closer to 700 who was walking (not saying he was feeling great doing it, but he was walking) and on very few meds and was only just now in the "at risk for" diabetes category, not the full-on disease yet. It blew my mind. I am in the 240's and was diagnosed this past December (at around 270.) But it just goes to show how each person's health situation is definitely unique.

What?

^ Swoon. Probably will be stealing. Allons-y!

redtreediary · May 2014

Meh. I get it.

I think, ultimately, it comes down to denying that we are *all* going to die. Period. The human psyche will do a lot, a whooooole lot, to not have to think about it.

Zaftique · May 2014

Meh. I get it.

I think, ultimately, it comes down to denying that we are *all* going to die. Period. The human psyche will do a lot, a whooooole lot, to not have to think about it.

"It is possible to provide security against other ills, but as far as death is concerned, we men live in a city without walls."
Epicurus

Aaron_K123 · May 2014

Obesity is a health risk. Smoking is a health risk. Both put an unnecessary burden on our health care system and both are due to life choices of the person in question. I am sorry if you don't like that fact but that doesn't change the reality of it.

Grimmerick · May 2014

I'm not saying being Obese isn't a risk. I myself am obese and trying to lose weight. I'm under no delusions that there are zero health risks associated. I'm just seeing too much stuff lately that basically says "YOU NEED TO LOSE WEIGHT OR YOU'LL DIE!"

I'm not getting my point across well, and that's my own fault. My issue is the sort of all-or-nothing language tied to the issue.

Just walk right out of this post and keep going, I am telling you you are going to continue to catch a lot of flack, I get what you are trying to say, but people are going to take what you have said and pick it apart and be really really technical maybe even quote something or paste in a study or two, it's the internet you will get all kinds of replys but probably mostly people wanting to prove they are right by taking something you just meant as a small frustration to total fact. sorry but you picked a topic that is not going to go well.

collingmommy · May 2014

I knew a man that didn't smoke, ate very clean food, ran 4/5 miles a day and dropped dead of a heart attack. On too of that, I knew a guy that was 30, weighed over 350lbs, and died of a heart attack. My boyfriend grandmother smoked like a chimney, drank like a fish, ate complete garbage and lived till she was in her 90s. Ppl die. It's nature. We could be so careful doing anything. Eat good, don't drink, don't smoke, and be in our 20s then BAM! hit by a bus!

Aaron_K123 · May 2014

I knew a man that didn't smoke, ate very clean food, ran 4/5 miles a day and dropped dead of a heart attack. On too of that, I knew a guy that was 30, weighed over 350lbs, and died of a heart attack. My boyfriend grandmother smoked like a chimney, drank like a fish, ate complete garbage and lived till she was in her 90s. Ppl die. It's nature. We could be so careful doing anything. Eat good, don't drink, don't smoke, and be in our 20s then BAM! hit by a bus!

Its a matter of what is in your control versus what is outside of your control. If you are a healthy weight statistically speaking you will live longer than if you were an unhealthy weight. Your weight is under your control, being randomly killed is not.

An unfit version of yourself will die before a fit version of yourself baring tragic death. I can understand people not liking being confronted by that but I think on some level we all recognize that this is true.

dangerousdumpling · May 2014

I appreciate the different perspectives. My issue is not with the idea that being obese puts you at greater risk for health problems. I get that. My issue is with the judgement that comes with it. The research is sound, but people take the research, stating what could happen, and take it into terms of the absolute. I'm not arguing with the data, but how other people treat the data and lord it over others.

It's kind of like the difference between Christians and the people who walk around shoving their beliefs down everyone's throat. Very different branches of the same tree.

Have you ever heard "There is no reality, only perception"? One person may see it as shoving beliefs down everyone's throat while others may view it as offering information believed to be helpful. Admittedly, sometimes it's hard for the message to be well received if the delivery is unpleasant. You're choosing to focus on perceived judgment instead of a helpful warning. Personally, I feel that quite a bit of positive thinking and positive attitude along with determination is required for successful weight loss. It will benefit you to get off this distracting negative train of thought and get on with focusing on your weight loss plan.

dangerousdumpling · May 2014

I'm not saying being Obese isn't a risk. I myself am obese and trying to lose weight. I'm under no delusions that there are zero health risks associated. I'm just seeing too much stuff lately that basically says "YOU NEED TO LOSE WEIGHT OR YOU'LL DIE!"

I'm not getting my point across well, and that's my own fault. My issue is the sort of all-or-nothing language tied to the issue.

Just walk right out of this post and keep going, I am telling you you are going to continue to catch a lot of flack, I get what you are trying to say, but people are going to take what you have said and pick it apart and be really really technical maybe even quote something or paste in a study or two, it's the internet you will get all kinds of replys but probably mostly people wanting to prove they are right by taking something you just meant as a small frustration to total fact. sorry but you picked a topic that is not going to go well.

Ya know, you're right. I could have just said let it go.........let it go. :laugh:

kgeyser · May 2014

OP, first of all I am glad you got to vent and I'm glad you found your way to MFP. I hope it will help you reach your goals.

I understand what you are saying. I don't think you are one of those "obese but healthy" people who think that if they blood work comes back ok that they are perfectly healthy or that there are no risks associated with being overweight. I do think people tend to attribute a host of characteristics and medical issues to overweight people simply by virtue of them being overweight, even if the person has a clean bill of health (other than a recommendation to lose weight). Often I think that has more to do with the individual saying it trying to reconcile their own mortality, like they are automatically dodging some bullet by not being overweight. It's like the people who say if you eat fast food, you're going to get cancer. We all know that isn't true, but the person saying it needs to convince themselves that their decisions are what is going to make the difference in their health.

That's not to say we don't have any control over our own health, obviously we do and we should care about our health, but we also have to acknowledge that even doing everything "right" we might end up with heart disease, cancer, etc. And we all know being overweight isn't good for you, but it also doesn't automatically mean you're pacing around with a host of medical issues outside of death's door.

Getting this off my chest...

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