Which way to go..

albone · May 2014

or something I'm missing?

I'm currently 263 pounds. I've always battled being overweight and the best I've ever done in my adult life was 217 pounds on the Atkins diet. In 2011 I was 240 and that went up to 250 by May of last year. I saw my doctor and he recommend a diet of 1500 calories which I don't think I've ever hit. Last fall, we moved to another city and right after that, I gained 13 pounds.

Before 2011, I had lost 20 pounds to get to 240 and that happened with a calorie restriction diet and riding my bike to work, 13 miles roundtrip and it was awesome. I lost 1-2 pounds a week and I usually had 1 day of eating 'bad' complete with peanut butter cup sundae.

Last summer, I was unemployed and did a daily mix of riding my bike 10 miles a day and doing GSP Rushfit workout...and I didn't lose a single pound.

I mentioned that I never hit my calorie goal of 1500, BUT I usually top out at 2000 calories or less, sometimes 2300 but rarely. I usually burn between 150-600 calories a day doing interval training, bike riding (to work), weights and DDP Yoga 3-5 days a week. In the past, this would've worked and for some reason now it's not. It's not by a longshot.

I've tried some pills like Ginko whatever and Orlistat...didn't lose a single pound after 30 days on each.

I will admit to not logging my calories on weekends and never counting condiments like mustard, but to be fair, that doesn't happen often.

So clearly I need to start logging my weekend calories but I'm at a loss for which way to go. Do I go to doctor prescribed 1500 calories? Or do the BMR TDEE thing? If I did the formula right then my BMR is 1882 and:
Activity Level Daily Calories
Sedentary (little or no exercise, desk job) 2431
Lightly Active (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk) 2786
Moderately Active (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/wk) 3140
Very Active (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days/wk) 3495
Extremely Active (hard daily exercise/sports & physical job or 2X day training, i.e marathon, contest etc.) 3849

1500 calories or BMR TDEE are two different things so I'm looking for some advice on which way to proceed. What do you recommend?

Thank you for your time!

P.S. It's cool if you recommend the food scale, but I don't think I have it me to get one. It's just too weird.

DanaDark · May 2014

Since you mentioned the food scale, its very handy. I found out I had been eating an extra 300 calories a day because of it. I bought mine on Amazon so I never even had to go anywhere.

Given your size, 1500 does seem rather low. If your bmr is 1880 ish, then you shoudl shoot for 1900 calories a day. Eat only half your exercise calories back. So, if you are told you burnt 200 calories, only eat back 100. Or don't bother eating them back at all.

Log everything. Condiments can be HUGE amount of calories.

StaciMarie1974 · May 2014

First and foremost - the 1500 was bogus. 1500 is the absolute minimum recommendation for a male. Unfortunately being a doctor does not make someone an expert on nutrition.

Based on your current weight, you are within healthy guidelines to aim for a 1000 calorie deficit per day. I'm not sure which is the right activity setting for you - but since you do get some exercise and didn't indicate you're sedentary based off of the "Lightly Active" a 1000 calorie deficit would have you at 1800 per day. So I'd say to aim for 1800-2300 calories depending on how you feel. You might feel that 1800 is fine on days you don't ride, and need more on days you do.

Now on to the bigger question - how are you basing the statement that you consume 2000-2300 per day now? I'm not trying to be rude, but if you've recently been either gaining weight or maintaining then its highly unlikely that you've been eating 2000-2300 per day. You already indicated you are not interested in a food scale so your estimations are bound to be off. If you aim for a large (but still reasonable) calorie deficit it won't hurt so much if you are off by even a few hundred calories per day. Its more important with smaller deficits.

StaciMarie1974 · May 2014

Looked a bit at your food diary.

Without a food scale - how did you determine the ribeye was 2 oz, or that the piece of cake was 3.2 ounce? Tablespoons, cups are not meant to be used to measure solid food, so its almost guaranteed that your serving of peanut butter is not 'a' serving of peanut butter. Also there is some inconsistency, with some meals logged and some not.

For me - it has been so beneficial to log everything. Otherwise its easy to overlook a bite here, a nibble there. It all adds up.

pseudomuffin · May 2014

I also got my food scale on Amazon and it's not weird at all. I was surprised to find how much more I'd been eating when I wasn't weighing my portions vs. when I started. Mine never leaves the kitchen and it's a good way to measure your intake accurately.

albone · May 2014

Thanks Dana. Digital food scale just seems weird, like Orlistat weird but I guess I wouldn't be surprised that I was eating more than I thought. I'll definitely start counting condiments. Thanks for the tip about eating back exercise calories. I do that all the time.

Hey Staci! I know I can do 1800 calories, but I think that's why I was leaning towards that anyways. I just hope it's enough to get back on track. Most week days I'm good at keeping track (just not yesterday)
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/food/diary/albone

albone · May 2014

Looked a bit at your food diary.

Without a food scale - how did you determine the ribeye was 2 oz, or that the piece of cake was 3.2 ounce? Tablespoons, cups are not meant to be used to measure solid food, so its almost guaranteed that your serving of peanut butter is not 'a' serving of peanut butter. Also there is some inconsistency, with some meals logged and some not.

For me - it has been so beneficial to log everything. Otherwise its easy to overlook a bite here, a nibble there. It all adds up.

I based the size/servings of cake and ribeye off the size of my hand. Certainly not scientific but I believe it worked in the past (when I was a member of TOPS Club, non-profit weight loss org). I've also googled what 3oz chicken looks like, per se.

Not to nitpick but is peanut butter a 'solid' food? Here's the thing, I take out the measuring spoon, scoop out a thing of peanut butter and put it into a container to take to work. If that's not a good way to measure peanut butter, then what would be? (you're going to say Food Scale, aren't you?) XD

StaciMarie1974 · May 2014

1500 for a guy is kind of like 1200 for a girl. The lowest recommended level, but its not 'right' for most people.

A note about Orlistat (Alli): even when it 'works' its easy to not notice the effect. Do the math... A gram of fat is 9 calories. It takes 3500 calories to make a pound. Alli blocks 25% of the fat you consume, so that those calories are 'saved'. But it also requires you to limit the fat you consume (which is not always a good thing, your body needs fat) so let's say you eat 15g fat with each meal (x3) and also 15g in snacks. So 60g total, of which 25% of 15g is blocked. That's 15 x 9 calories per day saved, or 135. It takes almost a month to effectively lose a pound this week. Alli's claims are based on the premise that if you're taking Alli, then you're accurately weighing/logging your food and that you have a good support system (online or in person). In reality you still need a caloric deficit in order to lose weight.

StaciMarie1974 · May 2014

Yes, Food scale.

About the tablespoons: when you put solid material into a spoon, cup - how much you fit each time will vary. In part because of how it settles but even in the situation of peanut butter we're human and so we err.

As to why things seemed different before - there are a few possibilities. For one our metabolism slows as we age. Not a drastic impact on BMR and such, but its something. So as we get older our bodies naturally burn less by doing the same things. Also, in your prior weight loss efforts - you could have lost muscle as well as fat. Muscle burns more calories, so losing muscle would also slow the metabolism. That's why many will encourage strength training in addition to cardio. Then, you may have been eating less then/more now...

healthygreek · May 2014

What you are missing is a scale!
Also it's important to log EVERYTHING you put in your mouth and swallow. This is the only way for you to know how many calories you are ingesting.
If you truly want to lose the weight in a healthy and sustainable manner and maintain your loss, this is by far the method that works best.

albone · May 2014

Okay, so what's the bottom line here? 1800 calories and Food Scale? With the understanding of keeping better track, especially on weekends AND to stay away from eating back my calories.

Anything else I should try? Should I keep up with the weight lifting/interval training/DDP Yoga?

StaciMarie1974 · May 2014

I say a range is the way to go. 1800-2000, 1800-2300... You may need to do some trial and error. Try something for a week and see how you feel.

Some days you will feel the need for more, some you won't. The workouts you described, and the fact that you're a guy (guys have higher muscle mass than women) and your current weight: you'll burn big from cardio. If you do a majorly intense workout - you might feel like you're starving. (Though sometimes I feel more hungry the day after rather than the day of.) I'm for eating when hungry - if you're sure you're hungry of course. Drink water, wait 20-30 minutes. Then if you need to eat, eat something.

I know my #s are not useful, but my plan: 1400-1600 per day, which is based on a 500 calorie deficit. And then 2-3 times per month I aim to eat at maintenance level so an extra 500. That way I can enjoy things I might not be able to fit in at 1400-1600, like buffalo wings. And if I have an extremely active day, I eat more.

dbmata · May 2014

Thanks Dana. Digital food scale just seems weird, like Orlistat weird but I guess I wouldn't be surprised that I was eating more than I thought. I'll definitely start counting condiments.

Analyzing bad data is weird. Which is what you're doing if you're not measuring your intake to at least some degree close to reality. A food scale is the easiest method for that.

MinnieInMaine · May 2014

Yes, the scale is best but at the very least, use a measuing spoon for that PB. Eyeballing is definitely a slippery slope, especially if you do those compare to your hand type guides. Something more standard is better - like 4 oz is the size of a standard deck of playing cards. Because whose hand exactly should I use? If I can choose, I'll go with hubby's hand - which probably gives me more like a 6-8 oz serving - and that can be the difference of 200-400 calories more that aren't being tracked.

And I totally get what you're saying. I'd been using an old wonky food scale for years and only using it for things I absolutely knew I couldn't eyeball but I finally caved recently and got a new digital scale and started weighing things and saw a defininte difference. It feels a little obsessive but think of it more this way - with time and practice, you'll get a better idea of what serving sizes look like and you can go back to eyeballing but know you'll probably be more accurate. And if you find you're not losing well again, you can go back to using the food scale until you feel more comfortable again.

albone · May 2014

Okay, you all talked me into this Food Scale thing. I can go to Target and pick one up right away.

So, is it fair to say that I've been eating way over my calorie count by not accurately counting the Food Scale way and that's why I've not been losing anything?

I'm sort of hoping it's as simple as that because it's fixable, ala Food Scale. If it's something like broken metabolism, that obviously sounds like a drag.

Thanks to everyone for all your help.

Which way to go..

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