Some questions I haven't found answers to.

ShaneAgain · May 2014

Hi there! I'm Shane, I've finally reached the end of my rope with my bad habits, and in general with being in a cycle that only perpetuates my problems. One of those has always been my appearance, and more lately my energy levels. I have been feeling very lethargic, depressed and overall just not like myself. I used to be adventurous and a bit athletic, and I think It's about time that I get back to that.

My goal is to achieve a more healthy body fat percentage and to increase flexibility and strength. Currently I am at about 18% body fat, and I would be much happier somewhere between 8 - 12.

One of my questions is what the average amount of time that it takes to get from somewhere like 18% body fat to 10% is, people always say it gets exponentially harder as you get lower, and I'm not even sure there is a clear answer for this, but I'd like to have a bit more of an Idea. As well as what the average rate of building muscle is, how fast is too fast to lose weight, and what is the purpose of a cleanse? Is it a good thing to do after you've lost weight to get everything rolling again? Are they done to lose weight? Or are they just bad ideas in general and should they be avoided?

(I must warn you, I'm obsessed with tracking things)
I am 5'8", 163 Lbs, and 18% Body Fat.

Here are my measurements:
Neck: 14 inches
Bicep:13 inches
Waist (above belly button): 33.5 inches
Waist (where my waist band would be): 34.5 inches
Wrists: 6.5 inches
Thighs: 22 inches
Calves: 12 inches

Other Problems I'm looking to address:
Acne/dry skin
A bit of Cellulite
Lower back pain
LOVE HANDLES

Thanks for reading all that, and for your help in advance!

Aaron_K123 · May 2014

One of my questions is what the average amount of time that it takes to get from somewhere like 18% body fat to 10% is, people always say it gets exponentially harder as you get lower, and I'm not even sure there is a clear answer for this, but I'd like to have a bit more of an Idea.

Unfortunately the answer is it varies. I'm about exactly your stats right now also headed down to lower bodyfat and am currently losing around 1 to 1.5 pounds per week in a way that I feel is safe (ie not losing muscle). Can't say from personal experience but I imagine this is going to slow down as I approach my goal weight as my caloric deficit will decrease as my BMR and TDEE go down along with my weight.

As well as what the average rate of building muscle is

Average rate of muscle building while in a caloric deficit is zero.

how fast is too fast to lose weight,

If you go too aggressive with your caloric deficit you are likely to lose muscle along with fat. I'd think you should aim to lose a pound a week to be safe, maybe 1.5 pounds per week. Just make sure you are getting adequate protein in your diet and include weight lifting in your exercise.

and what is the purpose of a cleanse?

The purpose of a cleanse is to take money from your wallet and give it to someone else for no reason. Its B.S. don't bother.

Is it a good thing to do after you've lost weight to get everything rolling again?

No. See above. Also I'm not sure what you are wanting to "get rolling again" Your body doesn't stop functioning just because you are losing weight.

Are they done to lose weight?

Don't know what you mean here.

Or are they just bad ideas in general and should they be avoided?

Cleanses are pointless so yes I would avoid them

sparkly_blonde · May 2014

Can't delete - read again so never mind

Aaron_K123 · May 2014

Can't delete - read again so never mind

He is male. 10% bodyfat is a totally normal and acceptable level of bodyfat for a man.

N/M looks like you caught your mistake ;-)

ShaneAgain · May 2014

Thanks for your reply man! It's cool that there is someone out there who is kinda in the same position as me that I can actually talk to. Would you be interested in chatting further down the road as things go on?

Aaron_K123 · May 2014

Thanks for your reply man! It's cool that there is someone out there who is kinda in the same position as me that I can actually talk to. Would you be interested in chatting further down the road as things go on?

Sure, can add me as a friend if you want.

I am 6' tall, currently at 176 pounds. I am small framed *6.25'' wrists at 6' tall so at 176 pounds I'm at about 20% bodyfat I'd say. I'm looking to drop down to about 15% bodyfat which I have been at before and I weighed in at 155 pounds then. Once I hit that I will probably switch up to eating at a small surplus (like 2800 calories a day) and try to put on some muscle before a year down the line eventually doing a cut to get down to the 10-12% bodyfat range for at least once in my life.

So short term goal is to get to 15% BF, probably by end of August, then start a bulk for about a year, then cut.

If you look at my profile pictures the ones where I look fit is 3 years ago when I was 155 pounds at 15% bodyfat. The other two pictures where I am not fit was this February when I had gotten up to 188 pounds and 27% bodyfat. I don't have pictures up of what I currently look like but its about half way in between.

parisallez · May 2014

from personal experience going from 18% to about 10 can take 6 months, sometimes longer. if you choose to have a more aggressive calorie deficit it can be done a bit quicker, HOWEVER, you will lose a lot of muscle and look super skinny. I had that problem. weight went from 185 to 152 and people told me I looked anorexic. my advice is find a calorie and exercise level which allows you to lose 1 lb a week or so.

Aaron_K123 · May 2014

from personal experience going from 18% to about 10 can take 6 months, sometimes longer. if you choose to have a more aggressive calorie deficit it can be done a bit quicker, HOWEVER, you will lose a lot of muscle and look super skinny. I had that problem. weight went from 185 to 152 and people told me I looked anorexic. my advice is find a calorie and exercise level which allows you to lose 1 lb a week or so.

I agree with this. Going from 27% to where I am now at 20% I've been losing 1.5 pounds a week but will probably adjust that down oce I get closer to my initial goal of 15%.

Right now I am aiming to Net 1800 calories which means most days I end up eating around 2100 calories.

_benjammin · May 2014

Tagging on my phone. I'll reply tomorrow.

ShaneAgain · May 2014

My goals as of right now are, like I previously stated, to arrive at around 10% body fat. When I first started two weeks ago I was at 167, my heaviest ever, and that was honestly one of the scariest things having looked at the scale and seeing that number. I'm quite a small guy, My height seems to be different everywhere between 5'7" - 5'9" so I figure it's safe to say I'm somewhere in that range. I used to swim in high school and when I was a swimmer I had quite a low body fat percentage, and weighed around 145, I'm looking to get back down around that and maybe put on some muscle as well. My short term goal for right now is to get to 15% or so in the next month- month and a half, beyond that I'd day I'm going to try to get to 12% two or three months after that, and if all is well, 10% a month or two later.

What kind of a diet are you adapting to? I had a hair analysis done recently where they essentially told me pretty much everything I should and shouldn't eat to be what's healthiest for me, turns out it's almost entirely meat and proteins with some veg and fruit.

Aaron_K123 · May 2014

My goals as of right now are, like I previously stated, to arrive at around 10% body fat. When I first started two weeks ago I was at 167, my heaviest ever, and that was honestly one of the scariest things having looked at the scale and seeing that number. I'm quite a small guy, My height seems to be different everywhere between 5'7" - 5'9" so I figure it's safe to say I'm somewhere in that range. I used to swim in high school and when I was a swimmer I had quite a low body fat percentage, and weighed around 145, I'm looking to get back down around that and maybe put on some muscle as well. My short term goal for right now is to get to 15% or so in the next month- month and a half, beyond that I'd day I'm going to try to get to 12% two or three months after that, and if all is well, 10% a month or two later.

What kind of a diet are you adapting to? I had a hair analysis done recently where they essentially told me pretty much everything I should and shouldn't eat to be what's healthiest for me, turns out it's almost entirely meat and proteins with some veg and fruit.

A "Hair analysis"? Well, i mean my diet is to eat around 1800 calorie net as I stated and I generally aim for macros around 40/40/20 c/p/f but I'm not super stingy with my diet so I eat what fits that and call it good. I do tend to find protein more satiating so I favor high protein meals.

This has been my weight loss the last two months:

That is dropping about 10 pounds over 60 days which is around 1.3 pounds a week I think. My bodyfat measurement by tape measurer around my waist was about 25% on 3/22 and about 21.7% on 5/17. By calipers I was 23% on 3/22 and 18.5% on 5/17 so suppose I lost 3-4% bodyfat in 60 days.

As such dropping from 18% to 15% in 30 days sounds pretty ambitious to me. If you are 165 pounds at 18% bodyfat that means you have 30 pounds of fat. To drop to 15% you'd have to drop 6 pounds of fat. 6 pounds of fat in 30 days is about 1.4 pounds a week which again seems a bit fast given your weight.

Unless you have a reason to drop it so fast you might want to extend out your goal time a bit, I feel like I'm pushing myself pretty hard and I have more to lose than you.

heybales · May 2014

Just for encouragement to listen to Aaron with the reasonable advice - just in case other not so reasonable advice comes later.

chrisdavey · May 2014

I'm the same height as you and have been basically the same stats as you. I was 95kg and super fat, then down to 67kg and skinny fat. (no resistance training). Then over the last 5 years or so have slowly gained weight (and cut from time to time) to where I am now at 85kg and 10% ish.

Remember, 10% BF at 75kg looks vastly different to 10% BF at 85kg for example.

I didn't see you mention it but what training are you doing? My advice is to find a solid progressive lifting routine and follow that consistently. If you are new to weights it is possible to gain a bit of muscle and lose fat at the same time, effectively recomping. This doesn't happen for too long though. At some stage, you need to add cals to add muscle (if that is your goal). I don't think that guys should bulk until below 15% BF personally.

So, I would say:
1. lift heavy stuff
2. continue eating at a slight deficit with adequate protein (160g or so I'd say)
Do this until you are lean enough to warrant a bulk.

This article has all the info you need on rate of gains.
http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/muscle-gain/whats-my-genetic-muscular-potential.html
and my own take on it
http://cdnutritionandfitness.com/clean-vs-dirty-bulking/

Hope that helps.

ShaneAgain · May 2014

I'm not sure how much muscle I would like to put on, seeing as I am rather short in stature I feel like If I were to put on a lot it would make me feel wide and bulky. I tend toward the slimmer side naturally and have a lot of trouble developing muscle as it is, so I think my goals are to try to add more condensed muscle than to get big, I feel it would be easier for me to sustain and still be happy with. I honestly just want to have enough muscle that if I eat normally and work out fairly regularly my metabolism will maintain my weight. A good example of my body goal would be something around Jack Harries, he's a youtuber.

As for what kind of training I'm doing I have recently started seeing a physical trainer to start working with me to reach my goals, I've only seen him twice so far so i don't know what kind of routine I will be doing.

Capt_Apollo · May 2014

I'm not sure how much muscle I would like to put on, seeing as I am rather short in stature I feel like If I were to put on a lot it would make me feel wide and bulky. I tend toward the slimmer side naturally and have a lot of trouble developing muscle as it is, so I think my goals are to try to add more condensed muscle than to get big, I feel it would be easier for me to sustain and still be happy with. I honestly just want to have enough muscle that if I eat normally and work out fairly regularly my metabolism will maintain my weight. A good example of my body goal would be something around Jack Harries, he's a youtuber.

As for what kind of training I'm doing I have recently started seeing a physical trainer to start working with me to reach my goals, I've only seen him twice so far so i don't know what kind of routine I will be doing.

aarons first response to you is very very spot on.

and as far as putting on muscle, don't worry. you won't accidentally become bulkier than you'd like, i promise you.

if you have a trainer, talk to him about the routine you'd like to do. have him go over barbell training with you if that is your goal.

ShaneAgain · May 2014

I had a hair analysis about two weeks ago done, it was able to tell me a ton about my body and overall health, it also gave me a lot of information about my metabolism and how I am Parasympathetic dominant and how that changes the way my body metabolizes food. After getting back the information and going through all of its recommendations I spoke with a doctor that said that I should try to rebalance my bodies chemistry by losing weight and changing my diet. It's not necessarily that I have to lose weight incredibly quickly and build muscle faster than average, but I do have a my next checkup in about 3 months and I'd like to try to fix this problem As soon as I can without hurting myself.

merisaOct3 · May 2014

I'm a 31 y/o woman in a very different place in my health journey, but I can offer the following support...

You seem to be caught up in a bit of self-deprecating. Your profile name, the original post,... you're not showing yourself any/enough love!

You're young man with a long life ahead - be kind to yourself along the way or it's going to just be hell.

People here are probably also going to suggest you open your diary - it can help us get a better sense of what your intake currently looks like. I personally have found that I feel better when I exercise regularly, eat real food most of which I prepare at home, and get some sunlight and Vitamin B complex regularly.

Also, I'll point out that I have worked on getting some very nice legs, and my quads are 22.5 in and my biceps are at 12.5 (arms not as cut yet as I'd like, but trimmed) and I'm 5'4'.5". So I am pretty sure that you can put on some muscle mass (and a couple inches) without looking bulky as a guy. Build up those shoulders for a sexier look!

_benjammin · May 2014

Sorry for the delayed reply. You've gotten some good info already but I'll provide my thoughts and info for comparison in bold

...what the average rate of building muscle is, how fast is too fast to lose weight, and what is the purpose of a cleanse?
At your measurements I would think 1 lb a week weight loss with strength training to preserve muscle would be "safe". How aggressive you want to lose is up to you, your personal preference and adherence. During weight lose you aren't going to be "building" muscle but you may get stronger and look bigger after getting leaner. After you get to your desired BF% gaining again comes down to personal preference. Slowly add back calories until you are gaining ~1-2 lbs per week. Cleanses are worthless
Is it a good thing to do after you've lost weight to get everything rolling again?No
Are they done to lose weight? Water weight only, again, worthless
Or are they just bad ideas in general and should they be avoided? Yes

(I must warn you, I'm obsessed with tracking things)
I am 5'8", 163 Lbs, and 18% Body Fat.
My Measurements for what it's worth.
41 yo, 5'10.5', ~151 lbs, ~9%BF

Here are my measurements:
Neck: 14 inches 15
Bicep:13 inches 14
Waist (above belly button): 33.5 inches 30 @navel
Waist (where my waist band would be): 34.5 inches 30.5 below navel
Wrists: 6.5 inches 6.25
Thighs: 22 inches 21.5
Calves: 12 inches 14

Other Problems I'm looking to address:
Acne/dry skin I have a prescription for Retin-A, have tried lots of OTC stuff and various scripts, love Retin-A but it does dry my face so I use some of my wife's moisturizer (no idea what kind)
A bit of Cellulite Genetics but lower body fat and increased muscle may reduce appearance
Lower back pain May just be mobility and imbalance, may need to see a Dr.
LOVE HANDLES Previously my biggest issue, thought I would never lose them, last thing to go on me when losing weight

Thanks for reading all that, and for your help in advance!

Hope that helps. My weight loss started before I joined here (weighing 192). My diary is open, if you look back at the end of last year I was bulking (with sloppy logging), cutting around Feb-April this year (started using a food scale), maintaining since and trying to "lean" bulk.

_benjammin · May 2014

I had a hair analysis about two weeks ago done, it was able to tell me a ton about my body and overall health, it also gave me a lot of information about my metabolism and how I am Parasympathetic dominant and how that changes the way my body metabolizes food. After getting back the information and going through all of its recommendations I spoke with a doctor that said that I should try to rebalance my bodies chemistry by losing weight and changing my diet. It's not necessarily that I have to lose weight incredibly quickly and build muscle faster than average, but I do have a my next checkup in about 3 months and I'd like to try to fix this problem As soon as I can without hurting myself.

Regarding hair analysis from quackwatch.org
"In 1983, Rivlin reviewed the published scientific literature on the uses and misuses of hair analysis in making nutritional assessments [14]. Among the numerous variables found to influence results were age, sex, rate of hair growth, sweat contamination, environmental contamination, shampoos, bleaches, dyes, and the location from which the sample was taken. Rivlin found so many uncontrollable variables that conclusions from a single sample could not be of value for evaluating nutritional status or in making therapeutic recommendations."
14. Rivlin R. Use and misuse of hair analysis for nutritional assessment. American Journal of Medicine 75:489-493, 1983.

Hornsby · May 2014

Tagging to follow.

nic632 · May 2014

Hi guys, I was wondering if you could give me some advice too?

I'm a 5'1" female, weigh 128lbs and worked out that my body fat is 33 and body fat % is 26 and ideally I'd like to lose between 10-14lbs. I've been give a 1200 cal allowance and try to stay in deficit each day. Please could you advise what BF and BF% should I try to reach towards?

I don't know if you need this info but my thighs are 22", calves nearly 15" and biceps are 12". I currently do cardio approx 5 times a week and planning on working out with weights at home (I've only got dumbells and a kettle bell). I know you can't spot reduce, but I was just wondering if I decreased my body fat, would these areas stay a similar size, but just look toned?

Thanks

Some questions I haven't found answers to.

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