Should I count calories or Not?
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A calorie is a calorie is a calorie. It is a unit of energy. Food = fuel. "Wrong" fuel does not store any differently than "right" fuel. 1 calorie from spinach vs 1 calorie from a french fry, the body doesn't differentiate the calorie.
I can't and won't try to get all scientific about this.....but, as an average joe schmo, I see one obvious difference between calories in doritos and calories in spinach: You can eat a whole lot more spinach and actually get nutritional value and actually feel somewhat satisfied. Compare that to eating the equal caloric amount of doritos which might only be about 5 or 6 chips. Equal calories of doritos wouldn't satisfy anyone's appetite or be of much nutritional value.0 -
How does a study of liquid calories focusing on nothing but macros relate to difference between Doritos and spinach? It's not a good comparison. Liquid calories of any type to solid food is not a good comparison.
That is one of many studies. Nova had a great documentary that aired about this in the past. I just can't recall the name exactly.
But I have yet to find one study to that shows a calorie from a dorito is different from a calorie from spinach.
And back to the OP, she said she gained weight eating "wrong" foods even though she was eating 1200 calories. Unless her TDEE is below 1200, this conclusion is not feasible.
I don't know what the OP was eating. But I'd be interested in reading some of the studies that showed all calories eaten are equal inside every body. Do you have any links?
A calorie is a unit of energy, that is the definition. So yes a calorie is a calorie.
A study from The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/5/899S.full
Quote from a 2004 study..
"THERMODYNAMICS
A calorie, by its simplest definition, is a unit of energy and is equivalent to 4.184 absolute J. In the popular press and in the labeling of food products in the United States, a food calorie actually refers to a kilocalorie, or 1000 cal. That is, 1 food cal equals 1 kcal, or the amount of energy needed to raise 1 kg water from 15 to 16 °C.
From a thermodynamic viewpoint, a calorie is of course a calorie. The first law of thermodynamics states that energy can be neither created nor destroyed, but only transformed."
HA I was quoting the same study! It's my favorite.
I like the easy to understand language of it.0 -
I can only speak for myself, but the reason I came to a health and wellness / Calorie tracking website in the first place was because I have proven that the "see food diet" wasn't working for me, odds are you are here for the same reason.
Benefits of calorie counting
1. Easier to monitor trends to lose weight more consistently (no guess work)
2. Other than losing weight, you can track your macros target (protein, fat and carbs)
3. monitor your sodium levels
4. You can eat normal food like a normal person.0 -
A calorie is a calorie is a calorie. It is a unit of energy. Food = fuel. "Wrong" fuel does not store any differently than "right" fuel. 1 calorie from spinach vs 1 calorie from a french fry, the body doesn't differentiate the calorie.
I can't and won't try to get all scientific about this.....but, as an average joe schmo, I see one obvious difference between calories in doritos and calories in spinach: You can eat a whole lot more spinach and actually get nutritional value and actually feel somewhat satisfied. Compare that to eating the equal caloric amount of doritos which might only be about 5 or 6 chips. Equal calories of doritos wouldn't satisfy anyone's appetite or be of much nutritional value.
The original start of this was that the OP stated she gained weight eating 1200 calories, of the wrong food. The idea I was trying to convey is a 1 calorie from spinach is the same as 1 calorie from a Dorito, if indeed she ate 1200 and her TDEE is less than 1200, it is impossible unless due to some odd medical condition that she would have gained weight.
The feeling of satisfaction, the glorious nutrients from "good" foods, and being satiated overall was not a factor in the OP's implications of weight gain by eating 1200 calories on "wrong" foods.
Oh forgot..the weight gain thing..could easily be sodium water..but it still does not address that a calorie is a calorie.0 -
A calorie is a calorie is a calorie. It is a unit of energy. Food = fuel. "Wrong" fuel does not store any differently than "right" fuel. 1 calorie from spinach vs 1 calorie from a french fry, the body doesn't differentiate the calorie.
I can't and won't try to get all scientific about this.....but, as an average joe schmo, I see one obvious difference between calories in doritos and calories in spinach: You can eat a whole lot more spinach and actually get nutritional value and actually feel somewhat satisfied. Compare that to eating the equal caloric amount of doritos which might only be about 5 or 6 chips. Equal calories of doritos wouldn't satisfy anyone's appetite or be of much nutritional value.
Thank you yall are getting too caught up in the weeds. To the OP if you don't like counting calories then don't for a month and see where your weight and measurements fall. Then actually count and see what the results are and make your decision from there.0 -
How does a study of liquid calories focusing on nothing but macros relate to difference between Doritos and spinach? It's not a good comparison. Liquid calories of any type to solid food is not a good comparison.
That is one of many studies. Nova had a great documentary that aired about this in the past. I just can't recall the name exactly.
But I have yet to find one study to that shows a calorie from a dorito is different from a calorie from spinach.
And back to the OP, she said she gained weight eating "wrong" foods even though she was eating 1200 calories. Unless her TDEE is below 1200, this conclusion is not feasible.
I don't know what the OP was eating. But I'd be interested in reading some of the studies that showed all calories eaten are equal inside every body. Do you have any links?
A calorie is a unit of energy, that is the definition. So yes a calorie is a calorie.
A study from The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition
http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/79/5/899S.full
Quote from a 2004 study..
"THERMODYNAMICS
A calorie, by its simplest definition, is a unit of energy and is equivalent to 4.184 absolute J. In the popular press and in the labeling of food products in the United States, a food calorie actually refers to a kilocalorie, or 1000 cal. That is, 1 food cal equals 1 kcal, or the amount of energy needed to raise 1 kg water from 15 to 16 °C.
From a thermodynamic viewpoint, a calorie is of course a calorie. The first law of thermodynamics states that energy can be neither created nor destroyed, but only transformed."
HA I was quoting the same study! It's my favorite.
Let me cut to the chase and tell you where my query is coming from. I read this (below) from an article about the documentary 'Fed Up'. I haven't seen the documentary so I'm not going to argue about it's merits, but this one sectoin from the article caught my attention. It made me wonder do any of those that always throw out the "but, thermodynamics" to every argument re: calories really know what they are talking about. Is there any proof that outside a lab, thermodynamics rules all and trumps all other rules?
Excerpt:At Harvard Medical School, Dr. Dariush Mozaffarian, an associate professor of medicine and epidemiology whose research was cited by experts in the film, said that the long-held idea that we get fat solely because we consume more calories than we expend is based on outdated science.
He has studied the effects that different foods have on weight gain and said that it is true that 100 calories of fat, protein and carbohydrates are the same in a thermodynamic sense, in that they release the same amount of energy when exposed to a Bunsen burner in a lab. But in a complex organism like a human being, he said, these foods influence satiety, metabolic rate, brain activity, blood sugar and the hormones that store fat in very different ways.
Link to article:
http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2014/05/09/fed-up-asks-are-all-calories-equal/?_php=true&_type=blogs&ref=health&_r=00 -
In the same documentary," In an interview, Dr. Wang said that for the most part, “if we’re just talking about body weight and obesity, the evidence seems to point in the direction that calories are calories.”
Dr. Wang said that studies consistently show that sugary beverages, potato chips and other high-glycemic foods are indeed associated with weight gain. But this is because they are rapidly digested and easy to consume in large amounts, “not because they bypass our energy balance.”0 -
In the same documentary," In an interview, Dr. Wang said that for the most part, “if we’re just talking about body weight and obesity, the evidence seems to point in the direction that calories are calories.”
Dr. Wang said that studies consistently show that sugary beverages, potato chips and other high-glycemic foods are indeed associated with weight gain. But this is because they are rapidly digested and easy to consume in large amounts, “not because they bypass our energy balance.”
This^^^^^
Variables exist for everything. Will I stay full longer on a plate of broccoli... Yes but energy wise the couple chips provide the same amount. The difference is I will be starving on a few chips and need to eat to feel full. I have seen that different macros metabolize differently but the difference is on the molecular level and not relative to weight loss and obesity since the difference is minute. We all work off of estimates, the differences would not play a significant enough role to even record the data.0 -
In the same documentary," In an interview, Dr. Wang said that for the most part, “if we’re just talking about body weight and obesity, the evidence seems to point in the direction that calories are calories.”
Dr. Wang said that studies consistently show that sugary beverages, potato chips and other high-glycemic foods are indeed associated with weight gain. But this is because they are rapidly digested and easy to consume in large amounts, “not because they bypass our energy balance.”
So, two differing opinions from nutrition scientists, yet you still believe that you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's all equal in every body?
ETA: No one is even willing to entertain the idea that all is not known when it comes to calories and weight? :ohwell:0 -
At no point did I say that I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt, anything. All things must be considered, one should always entertain ideas even if you disagree when them, that is how science is furthered.
That being said, what I DID say is that until there is substantial research proving that a calorie is not a calorie, I am unable to resolve the validity that the a calorie (unity of energy) from spinach is different from a calorie (again unit of energy) from a Dorito is different.0 -
In the same documentary," In an interview, Dr. Wang said that for the most part, “if we’re just talking about body weight and obesity, the evidence seems to point in the direction that calories are calories.”
Dr. Wang said that studies consistently show that sugary beverages, potato chips and other high-glycemic foods are indeed associated with weight gain. But this is because they are rapidly digested and easy to consume in large amounts, “not because they bypass our energy balance.”
So, two differing opinions from nutrition scientists, yet you still believe that you know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it's all equal in every body?
ETA: No one is even willing to entertain the idea that all is not known when it comes to calories and weight? :ohwell:
That is not what any of this is about. Yes a calorie is a calorie the same as a btu is a unit of energy or a lb. Is a unit of weight and a cubic pound is a unit of mass. You are talking variables, diabetics process carbs differently so yes calories from carbs (the calories delivery system) is processed differently in a diabetic. I have seen studies where the different macros process differently from each other, but the difference in a human body is too small to be relavent. Excess calories get held as fat, it does not matter if they are from spinach or broccoli. The body holds this fat and increases in mass. Now to be honest our mass has little to do with our weight because I have females on my FL that out weigh me but are much smaller because their bf% is low and they have a good amount of lbm but when the majority talk weight loss, they are talking mass/weight being the same and the excess consisting of fat. To burn our bodies excess energy storage supply we must burn more than we consume. Our body did not organize our fat by macro and say broccoli on the arms, doritos on the belly. It is a greedy organism with a will to survive, it takes what it can burn to supply itself with the energy needed. In the bigger picture, macros = health and fitness and matter. They matter for the ability to stick with a lifestyle change, body composition and general fitness and health. When someone states that you can consume all the real food you want and never get fat they are full of it. 3500 calories = 1 lb of human fat that's the math, not 300 calories of doritos = fat but 3500 calories of broccoli equal naturally disappearing energy. Energy never disappears and only changes, it is either used or stored.
The other fact is 1 cal = 1000 kcal so the level you are speaking of would fall within the margin of error and not be testable, it also can not be appropriately studied because of variables, only twins would work and 2 is not enough of a study sample.
You are getting wrapped up into equations with no answer and irrelevant. You can't even count a calorie amount accurately enough to test the miniscule amount of difference on burning rate of different calorie delivery systems (macros).
Interesting fact, the power of TNT explosions is measured I'm calories.0 -
At no point did I say that I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt, anything. All things must be considered, one should always entertain ideas even if you disagree when them, that is how science is furthered.
That being said, what I DID say is that until there is substantial research proving that a calorie is not a calorie, I am unable to resolve the validity that the a calorie (unity of energy) from spinach is different from a calorie (again unit of energy) from a Dorito is different.
Actually, you never said that, until now. But how could research show that units of energy are different? That's like asking research to prove that a centimeter of string is a different unit of measurement than a centimeter of wire. Units of measurement are what they are.
The question was are they always used equally when it comes to weight gain or fat storage. I mean, we already know that not all calories eaten are the same when it comes to energy, but even only looking at those that are absorbed or consumed by the body - is there sufficient evidence to say that they are always equal?0 -
At no point did I say that I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt, anything. All things must be considered, one should always entertain ideas even if you disagree when them, that is how science is furthered.
That being said, what I DID say is that until there is substantial research proving that a calorie is not a calorie, I am unable to resolve the validity that the a calorie (unity of energy) from spinach is different from a calorie (again unit of energy) from a Dorito is different.
Actually, you never said that, until now. But how could research show that unit of energy are different? That's like asking research to prove that a centimeter of sting is a different unit of measurement than a centimeter of wire. Units of measurement are what they are.
The question was are they always used equally when it comes to weight gain or fat storage. I mean, we already know that not all calories eaten are the same when it comes to energy, but even only looking at those that are absorbed or consumed by the body - is there sufficient evidence to say that they are always equal?
A calorie is a unit of energy so YES all calories are the same when it comes to energy.
A lb of feathers vs a lb of lead....weight the same.
Honestly, nothing is beyond a shadow of a doubt, but before I dismiss the scientific laws of energy....there would need to be a breakthrough that breaks the laws. A scientific theory is held as fact after repeated hypothesis have been proven. Until that theory is broken with multiple studies or mathmatically shown to have a weakness, scientific theory holds as law.0 -
At no point did I say that I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt, anything. All things must be considered, one should always entertain ideas even if you disagree when them, that is how science is furthered.
That being said, what I DID say is that until there is substantial research proving that a calorie is not a calorie, I am unable to resolve the validity that the a calorie (unity of energy) from spinach is different from a calorie (again unit of energy) from a Dorito is different.
Actually, you never said that, until now. But how could research show that unit of energy are different? That's like asking research to prove that a centimeter of sting is a different unit of measurement than a centimeter of wire. Units of measurement are what they are.
The question was are they always used equally when it comes to weight gain or fat storage. I mean, we already know that not all calories eaten are the same when it comes to energy, but even only looking at those that are absorbed or consumed by the body - is there sufficient evidence to say that they are always equal?
A calorie is a unit of energy so YES all calories are the same when it comes to energy.
A lb of feathers vs a lb of lead....weight the same.
Honestly, nothing is beyond a shadow of a doubt, but before I dismiss the scientific laws of energy....there would need to be a breakthrough that breaks the laws. A scientific theory is held as fact after repeated hypothesis have been proven. Until that theory is broken with multiple studies or mathmatically shown to have a weakness, scientific theory holds as law.
THIS^!0 -
At no point did I say that I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt, anything. All things must be considered, one should always entertain ideas even if you disagree when them, that is how science is furthered.
That being said, what I DID say is that until there is substantial research proving that a calorie is not a calorie, I am unable to resolve the validity that the a calorie (unity of energy) from spinach is different from a calorie (again unit of energy) from a Dorito is different.
Actually, you never said that, until now. But how could research show that units of energy are different? That's like asking research to prove that a centimeter of string is a different unit of measurement than a centimeter of wire. Units of measurement are what they are.
The question was are they always used equally when it comes to weight gain or fat storage. I mean, we already know that not all calories eaten are the same when it comes to energy, but even only looking at those that are absorbed or consumed by the body - is there sufficient evidence to say that they are always equal?
And I have said the above just not word for word: Unless there is substantial research proving calories coming from spinach vs a Dorito is different, a calorie will be a calorie. Again, as stated before..the added benefits of getting the calories from spinach vs Dorito due to other nutrients of course proves eating spinach is better for you than a Dorito, but it does not change the fact if it's the same number of calories, the body will metabolize it the same way.0 -
I HATE counting calories!! Its time consuming, I am never sure if what I log is really correct. Sunday is the easiest day to put together maybe two days worth of food and count the cals. After that, its almost impossible with a busy schedule. I try to not eat the same foods so I constantly have to look up new foods. Also,the quantity of how much I eat changes, so there's the frustrating conversions.
Naw, you totally don't need to maintain any semblance of data gathering. Just keep doing what you're doing, you'll get there.
Or not. Then you'll realize the importance of data capture and analysis to behavior modification.0 -
I used to do slimming world, a weight loss club here in the UK. I was getting sick of it, it was all healthy eating, you can eat as much as you want etc. Anyway, I ended up with MFP, And I actually like to count calories, it can be a pain in the behind at times, but for example if you are a person who doesn't want to eat healthy but still wants to lose weight, it provides that option.
The thing that worries me with people who don't calorie count, is how do they know they are eating enough calories? They don't. That's why I prefer calorie counting, it takes awhile to get used to, but you get used to it. I find the app on my phone easier to use to add food and drink. I eat healthy with MFP, I eat enough calories with it, I think it is great. Just keep giving it a chance, if you have no time for it still, and still find it annoying after a few months, you could try another option, whatever it may be.0 -
I used to do slimming world, a weight loss club here in the UK. I was getting sick of it, it was all healthy eating, you can eat as much as you want etc. Anyway, I ended up with MFP, And I actually like to count calories, it can be a pain in the behind at times, but for example if you are a person who doesn't want to eat healthy but still wants to lose weight, it provides that option.
The thing that worries me with people who don't calorie count, is how do they know they are eating enough calories? They don't. That's why I prefer calorie counting, it takes awhile to get used to, but you get used to it. I find the app on my phone easier to use to add food and drink. I eat healthy with MFP, I eat enough calories with it, I think it is great. Just keep giving it a chance, if you have no time for it still, and still find it annoying after a few months, you could try another option, whatever it may be.
Someone with extra weight has NO concern of if they are eating enough! They ate too much that is how they got the extra weight. Nutrition, health and fitness are another issue, but If you starve yourself, you lose weight (fat, muscle and bone density...hair) then you deplete your fats stores and die. Not the best diet since most would want to be healthy and enjoy being thin, but starving to death leaves a skinny corpse.
Not advocating vlcd, but I have never seen a fat anorexic or starving person. Plus it defies the laws of energy (come on people, this is scientific theory (meaning law, check the definition), we are not talking the merits of elliptical vs arch machine here. Energy in - energy out.0 -
The thing that worries me with people who don't calorie count, is how do they know they are eating enough calories?
This really doesn't make much sense to me.
Human beings knew how much to eat for as long as we've existed, long before the calorie was discovered.
As someone who does not count calories, yet has lost over 100 lbs, you know how I know how much I'm eating? By getting in touch with my natural hunger cues, going by my energy levels, and my general sense of health and well being. You know, like people have done for all of history before calorie counting ever existed.
And considering the epic levels of fatness and obesity, many of us aren't dealing with getting enough to eat. Human beings who are struggling with getting enough to eat aren't worried about calorie counting; they're worried about not starving to death.0
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