results of 20year study reveal weight loss is unattainable

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  • _KitKat_
    _KitKat_ Posts: 1,066 Member
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    When people say weight loss is "Easy" they are talking "weight loss" not necessarily all of the emotional and/or health issues other individuals deal with. The point being once someone has dealt with and is working to correct emotional weight gain issues, the actual act of losing weight is EASY. This is normally directed at the people claiming weight loss is difficult or impossible, those people are seeming to either use it as an excuse to not start, slack off or failure in the end. Weight loss is numbers and exercising control over ones life and health, nobody that says it is easy is ever referring to the issues that led to individuals being in the situation that they need to lose weight.

    I do think many people grasp at the idea that actual weight loss (the physical numbers game) is near impossible to provide themselves an external cause for their issues instead of facing the cause of the weight head on. The question is not how do I lose weight, then I will be happy and emotionally balanced, the cause will not magically disappear. The first question before someone even starts is "WHY?" then getting help if needed with the why, only then can someone then start on the repairs needed because of the damage caused by the underlying issue.


    Example, if you are a emotional binge eater, that will not stop because you lose weight and did it slow so you went a year without binging but if you address why you binge and work on a plan to correct this behavior, then set up a weight loss plan. The weight loss will be easier to maintain because the factor that made you fat you have eradicated. The weight loss part is easy, the emotional binging recovery was the hard part.

    I also think starting to deal with issues in your life that caused harm (for most that is what a lifestyle change is) with a negative outlook of "look at these statistics" is counter productive and relavent to that individuals underlying issues. It is a product of a negative feedback cycle and does have poor intonations regarding that person success.

    ETA I do think it is valid that for some the underlying issues are too deepseeded in their mental makeup to ever be completely dealt with, for those individuals the issue would need to be controlled which is a harder task and not in my mind a lifestyle change. Exercising complete control over a negative issue for life is much harder than carrying on with ones healthy habits without current issues.
  • Iwishyouwell
    Iwishyouwell Posts: 1,888 Member
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    The assumption isn't that they all did fads, cleanses etc (at least not as far as I can see)...... the assumption is that they "went on a diet" then "went off their diet" and that they didn't make a conscious effort to make their diet sustainable or put much effort into the maintenance phase of dieting. The study was on a random sample of joe public......... when you consider people who diet in general... how many of them put in the effort to make sustainable lifestyle changes as opposed to looking for quick fixes, or even if they diet with sensible deficits and exercise, how many "go on a diet" then revert back to their old ways? There's a whole load of different mistakes being made by people (cleanses and fads being one of a whole range)..... no way is it the case that 95% of people are doomed to gain back weight no matter what they do. I don't believe that for one minute. For people who don't want to be in that statistic, they need to identify all the things that yo-yo dieters are doing wrong and avoid them, and identify what successful long-term maintainers are doing right, and do those things instead.

    And this is where we fundamentally disagree, and the reason why I'm having trouble embracing all this "lifestyle change" business.

    I think it's become quite common for people to bandy about the declaration "It's not a diet, it's a lifestyle change!!!". Yet on this board alone, an extremely skewed subsection of successful people who are doing it the "right way", the failures are plentiful. The maintenance section alone spins a sad yarn of constant failure. I think a lot of people call it a "lifestyle change" in name, but eventually, whether in the course of months, a year, or a few years, revert right back to old habits.

    I suppose, until I see some concrete evidence to the contrary, I do not assume that well intentioned lifestyle changers are having considerably greater long term maintenance success, beyond perhaps maintaining relatively small losses, than anyone else.

    I think, at this point, it seems more like a lovely dream, a comfortable weight loss myth, that standing up and saying "I've made a lifestyle change!" does much.

    There is the gnawing feeling, and at this point we're all dealing in beliefs and anecdotal evidence mainly, that the overwhelming majority of people doom themselves eventually to regain most, if not all, of the weight. Yes, even the ones who did it the "right" way.
  • amandzor
    amandzor Posts: 386 Member
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  • _KitKat_
    _KitKat_ Posts: 1,066 Member
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    The assumption isn't that they all did fads, cleanses etc (at least not as far as I can see)...... the assumption is that they "went on a diet" then "went off their diet" and that they didn't make a conscious effort to make their diet sustainable or put much effort into the maintenance phase of dieting. The study was on a random sample of joe public......... when you consider people who diet in general... how many of them put in the effort to make sustainable lifestyle changes as opposed to looking for quick fixes, or even if they diet with sensible deficits and exercise, how many "go on a diet" then revert back to their old ways? There's a whole load of different mistakes being made by people (cleanses and fads being one of a whole range)..... no way is it the case that 95% of people are doomed to gain back weight no matter what they do. I don't believe that for one minute. For people who don't want to be in that statistic, they need to identify all the things that yo-yo dieters are doing wrong and avoid them, and identify what successful long-term maintainers are doing right, and do those things instead.

    And this is where we fundamentally disagree, and the reason why I'm having trouble embracing all this "lifestyle change" business.

    I think it's become quite common for people to bandy about the declaration "It's not a diet, it's a lifestyle change!!!". Yet on this board alone, an extremely skewed subsection of successful people who are doing it the "right way", the failures are plentiful. The maintenance section alone spins a sad yarn of constant failure. I think a lot of people call it a "lifestyle change" in name, but eventually, whether in the course of months, a year, or a few years, revert right back to old habits.

    I suppose, until I see some concrete evidence to the contrary, I do not assume that well intentioned lifestyle changers are having considerably greater long term maintenance success, beyond perhaps maintaining relatively small losses, than anyone else.

    I think, at this point, it seems more like a lovely dream, a comfortable weight loss myth, that standing up and saying "I've made a lifestyle change!" does much.

    There is the gnawing feeling, and at this point we're all dealing in beliefs and anecdotal evidence mainly, that the overwhelming majority of people doom themselves eventually to regain most, if not all, of the weight. Yes, even the ones who did it the "right" way.

    @Iwishyouwell, you have many posts and a topic about this. I think you are being held up on the language people are using. The fact is just because someone calls it a lifestyle change does not mean it is one, they may wish it was or hope but if they have unresolved issues, it is not one. The people that are successful did make a lifestyle change, they dealt with underlying issues, taught themselves the skills they were lacking, formed healthy habits (by definition a habit is subconscious behavior and difficult to change), and did it. Those that failed or struggle are missing one of the components of an actual life change. The fact is maybe the chances of longterm success are rare but that is because by nature humans take the easy way, and weight loss the physical act is easy. The hard part is correcting and dealing with the cause and fixing the cause is the lifestyle change.

    *Lifestyle change works

    *Calling something a lifestyle change does not signify success unless an actual change occurred.

    *You are lumping the 2 together, if I had a nail in my tire I could fill my tire with air and most likely it will not be flat for a few days, I did not change my tire though so the underlying issue of the nail will flatten my tire again......but if I deal with the nail and have the mechanic plug the hole, it may last but it may not.....I dealt with the nail but I only patched the hole, it is still there. Now if I changed my tire, that old tire is irrelevant because I made a change.
  • AlliBarlik
    AlliBarlik Posts: 111 Member
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    Well!


    Guess we'll just have to prove that study wrong, won't we?

    YES!
  • BonworthVonFattyPants
    BonworthVonFattyPants Posts: 49 Member
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    This study is the battle-cry of the entire HAES movement.

    I have no problem with the study. I'm sure it's accurate. I would bet that 95% of us have failed at at least one diet after significant weight loss.

    But, and this is why I despise what the HAES has become, it's no excuse to ignore every other study, thousands of them, that show the negative consequences of obesity. Instead they say "science says I can't loss weight" and give up.

    Oh - but it gets worse. They then simply declare themselves healthy.

    You know ... because HAES.

    The HAES basics - incorporating healthy diet and activities into your life - is awesome. But as soon as it attached itself to the FA movement it morphed into a circle jerk of people encouraging slow, painful, unnecessary death.

    And when you start reading the blogs and articles it all comes back to this one study.
  • Meerataila
    Meerataila Posts: 1,885 Member
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    This study is the battle-cry of the entire HAES movement.

    I have no problem with the study. I'm sure it's accurate. I would bet that 95% of us have failed at at least one diet after significant weight loss.

    But, and this is why I despise what the HAES has become, it's no excuse to ignore every other study, thousands of them, that show the negative consequences of obesity. Instead they say "science says I can't loss weight" and give up.

    Oh - but it gets worse. They then simply declare themselves healthy.

    You know ... because HAES.

    The HAES basics - incorporating healthy diet and activities into your life - is awesome. But as soon as it attached itself to the FA movement it morphed into a circle jerk of people encouraging slow, painful, unnecessary death.

    And when you start reading the blogs and articles it all comes back to this one study.

    I agree, there are problems with HAES. I think a lot of it is backlash against the hatred heaped on overweight people by those who want to wrap their attacks in personal responsibility speech (ironically much of this virulent, prejudicial self-righteousness comes from a long time radio host who has struggled with his own weight all his life).

    But they have a point when they touch on cure worse than the disease issues. Like yo-yo dieting as opposed to being perhaps just moderately overweight.
  • Iwishyouwell
    Iwishyouwell Posts: 1,888 Member
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    The assumption isn't that they all did fads, cleanses etc (at least not as far as I can see)...... the assumption is that they "went on a diet" then "went off their diet" and that they didn't make a conscious effort to make their diet sustainable or put much effort into the maintenance phase of dieting. The study was on a random sample of joe public......... when you consider people who diet in general... how many of them put in the effort to make sustainable lifestyle changes as opposed to looking for quick fixes, or even if they diet with sensible deficits and exercise, how many "go on a diet" then revert back to their old ways? There's a whole load of different mistakes being made by people (cleanses and fads being one of a whole range)..... no way is it the case that 95% of people are doomed to gain back weight no matter what they do. I don't believe that for one minute. For people who don't want to be in that statistic, they need to identify all the things that yo-yo dieters are doing wrong and avoid them, and identify what successful long-term maintainers are doing right, and do those things instead.

    And this is where we fundamentally disagree, and the reason why I'm having trouble embracing all this "lifestyle change" business.

    I think it's become quite common for people to bandy about the declaration "It's not a diet, it's a lifestyle change!!!". Yet on this board alone, an extremely skewed subsection of successful people who are doing it the "right way", the failures are plentiful. The maintenance section alone spins a sad yarn of constant failure. I think a lot of people call it a "lifestyle change" in name, but eventually, whether in the course of months, a year, or a few years, revert right back to old habits.

    I suppose, until I see some concrete evidence to the contrary, I do not assume that well intentioned lifestyle changers are having considerably greater long term maintenance success, beyond perhaps maintaining relatively small losses, than anyone else.

    I think, at this point, it seems more like a lovely dream, a comfortable weight loss myth, that standing up and saying "I've made a lifestyle change!" does much.

    There is the gnawing feeling, and at this point we're all dealing in beliefs and anecdotal evidence mainly, that the overwhelming majority of people doom themselves eventually to regain most, if not all, of the weight. Yes, even the ones who did it the "right" way.

    @Iwishyouwell, you have many posts and a topic about this. I think you are being held up on the language people are using. The fact is just because someone calls it a lifestyle change does not mean it is one, they may wish it was or hope but if they have unresolved issues, it is not one. The people that are successful did make a lifestyle change, they dealt with underlying issues, taught themselves the skills they were lacking, formed healthy habits (by definition a habit is subconscious behavior and difficult to change), and did it. Those that failed or struggle are missing one of the components of an actual life change. The fact is maybe the chances of longterm success are rare but that is because by nature humans take the easy way, and weight loss the physical act is easy. The hard part is correcting and dealing with the cause and fixing the cause is the lifestyle change.

    *Lifestyle change works

    *Calling something a lifestyle change does not signify success unless an actual change occurred.

    *You are lumping the 2 together, if I had a nail in my tire I could fill my tire with air and most likely it will not be flat for a few days, I did not change my tire though so the underlying issue of the nail will flatten my tire again......but if I deal with the nail and have the mechanic plug the hole, it may last but it may not.....I dealt with the nail but I only patched the hole, it is still there. Now if I changed my tire, that old tire is irrelevant because I made a change.

    Well no, it's actually more that you absolutely finally got my entire point. And stated it quite beautifully. ;)

    There is a reason I keep putting "lifestyle change", as it's commonly defined and pushed on MFP, in quotation marks.

    Me thinks a lot of people don't denote the difference between a lived lifestyle changed and a declared "lifestyle change".
  • lessismoreohio
    lessismoreohio Posts: 910 Member
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    They'll need to tell that to the tens of thousands of people on MFP who have lost the weight and are keeping it off. Sounds as if the study has a hidden agenda.
  • Annie_01
    Annie_01 Posts: 3,096 Member
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    The assumption isn't that they all did fads, cleanses etc (at least not as far as I can see)...... the assumption is that they "went on a diet" then "went off their diet" and that they didn't make a conscious effort to make their diet sustainable or put much effort into the maintenance phase of dieting. The study was on a random sample of joe public......... when you consider people who diet in general... how many of them put in the effort to make sustainable lifestyle changes as opposed to looking for quick fixes, or even if they diet with sensible deficits and exercise, how many "go on a diet" then revert back to their old ways? There's a whole load of different mistakes being made by people (cleanses and fads being one of a whole range)..... no way is it the case that 95% of people are doomed to gain back weight no matter what they do. I don't believe that for one minute. For people who don't want to be in that statistic, they need to identify all the things that yo-yo dieters are doing wrong and avoid them, and identify what successful long-term maintainers are doing right, and do those things instead.

    And this is where we fundamentally disagree, and the reason why I'm having trouble embracing all this "lifestyle change" business.

    I think it's become quite common for people to bandy about the declaration "It's not a diet, it's a lifestyle change!!!". Yet on this board alone, an extremely skewed subsection of successful people who are doing it the "right way", the failures are plentiful. The maintenance section alone spins a sad yarn of constant failure. I think a lot of people call it a "lifestyle change" in name, but eventually, whether in the course of months, a year, or a few years, revert right back to old habits.

    I suppose, until I see some concrete evidence to the contrary, I do not assume that well intentioned lifestyle changers are having considerably greater long term maintenance success, beyond perhaps maintaining relatively small losses, than anyone else.

    I think, at this point, it seems more like a lovely dream, a comfortable weight loss myth, that standing up and saying "I've made a lifestyle change!" does much.

    There is the gnawing feeling, and at this point we're all dealing in beliefs and anecdotal evidence mainly, that the overwhelming majority of people doom themselves eventually to regain most, if not all, of the weight. Yes, even the ones who did it the "right" way.

    @Iwishyouwell, you have many posts and a topic about this. I think you are being held up on the language people are using. The fact is just because someone calls it a lifestyle change does not mean it is one, they may wish it was or hope but if they have unresolved issues, it is not one. The people that are successful did make a lifestyle change, they dealt with underlying issues, taught themselves the skills they were lacking, formed healthy habits (by definition a habit is subconscious behavior and difficult to change), and did it. Those that failed or struggle are missing one of the components of an actual life change. The fact is maybe the chances of longterm success are rare but that is because by nature humans take the easy way, and weight loss the physical act is easy. The hard part is correcting and dealing with the cause and fixing the cause is the lifestyle change.

    *Lifestyle change works

    *Calling something a lifestyle change does not signify success unless an actual change occurred.

    *You are lumping the 2 together, if I had a nail in my tire I could fill my tire with air and most likely it will not be flat for a few days, I did not change my tire though so the underlying issue of the nail will flatten my tire again......but if I deal with the nail and have the mechanic plug the hole, it may last but it may not.....I dealt with the nail but I only patched the hole, it is still there. Now if I changed my tire, that old tire is irrelevant because I made a change.

    I get your analogy...but...buying a new tire is not a "lifestyle".

    The word "diet" has become a "dirty word"...only to be replace by the word "lifestyle"...which has become a "cliche"...and honestly in the end holds little meaning. Look how often it is thrown around just on MFP alone.

    My "lifestyle" has changed dramatically in the last 20 years...not just once...but several times. Through it all...I gained weight...enough said about that.

    Nothing changed until I learned to care about myself...want more for myself...until I wanted to enjoy the "lifestyle" that I already had.

    To make a long story short...

    I will resolve old issues...learn to love myself...learn to believe that I am worth it and all that life has to offer me...in order to successfully accomplish that.

    Will losing the weight and maintaining affect my lifestyle...sure it will...it will make it easier to do the things that I have always wanted to do.

    Maybe we have different definitions of "lifestyle"...
  • Meerataila
    Meerataila Posts: 1,885 Member
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    They'll need to tell that to the tens of thousands of people on MFP who have lost the weight and are keeping it off. Sounds as if the study has a hidden agenda.

    Source for those numbers? And I really doubt the people doing this 20 year study are selling protein shakes or exercise DVDs. Now if there were a longterm diet aid that addressed the issues in this study, then I'd be mightily suspicious. But since there isn't, what agenda could they possibly have?
  • Annie_01
    Annie_01 Posts: 3,096 Member
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    They'll need to tell that to the tens of thousands of people on MFP who have lost the weight and are keeping it off. Sounds as if the study has a hidden agenda.

    Tens of thousands of people???

    Does MFP track its users? Past and present?

    Many people have disappeared from this site just since I have been here. We don't know if they kept the weight off or not. I do know that there are many that show back up saying..."I'm Back". Some of those people start a thread about having lost and regained over time.

    As much as I am looking forward to reaching my goal...I also dread it. I think the real work begins then...keeping the weight off. I am honest enough with myself that I know if I don't continue to monitor...I will gradually gain some or all of it back.
  • Iwishyouwell
    Iwishyouwell Posts: 1,888 Member
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    As much as I am looking forward to reaching my goal...I also dread it. I think the real work begins then...keeping the weight off. I am honest enough with myself that I know if I don't continue to monitor...I will gradually gain some or all of it back.

    Of course there is a major selection bias going on here, but the Goal: Maintaining Weight section of this forum speaks very well to your point.
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
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    The assumption isn't that they all did fads, cleanses etc (at least not as far as I can see)...... the assumption is that they "went on a diet" then "went off their diet" and that they didn't make a conscious effort to make their diet sustainable or put much effort into the maintenance phase of dieting. The study was on a random sample of joe public......... when you consider people who diet in general... how many of them put in the effort to make sustainable lifestyle changes as opposed to looking for quick fixes, or even if they diet with sensible deficits and exercise, how many "go on a diet" then revert back to their old ways? There's a whole load of different mistakes being made by people (cleanses and fads being one of a whole range)..... no way is it the case that 95% of people are doomed to gain back weight no matter what they do. I don't believe that for one minute. For people who don't want to be in that statistic, they need to identify all the things that yo-yo dieters are doing wrong and avoid them, and identify what successful long-term maintainers are doing right, and do those things instead.

    And this is where we fundamentally disagree, and the reason why I'm having trouble embracing all this "lifestyle change" business.

    I think it's become quite common for people to bandy about the declaration "It's not a diet, it's a lifestyle change!!!". Yet on this board alone, an extremely skewed subsection of successful people who are doing it the "right way", the failures are plentiful. The maintenance section alone spins a sad yarn of constant failure. I think a lot of people call it a "lifestyle change" in name, but eventually, whether in the course of months, a year, or a few years, revert right back to old habits.

    I suppose, until I see some concrete evidence to the contrary, I do not assume that well intentioned lifestyle changers are having considerably greater long term maintenance success, beyond perhaps maintaining relatively small losses, than anyone else.

    I think, at this point, it seems more like a lovely dream, a comfortable weight loss myth, that standing up and saying "I've made a lifestyle change!" does much.

    There is the gnawing feeling, and at this point we're all dealing in beliefs and anecdotal evidence mainly, that the overwhelming majority of people doom themselves eventually to regain most, if not all, of the weight. Yes, even the ones who did it the "right" way.

    when I say "do it the right way" - that includes continuing to do it the right way for life... otherwise they're doing it the wrong way, i.e. reverting back to old habits.

    I don't believe that people (barring maybe some medical issues... maybe...) are doomed to a lifetime of obesity. I believe that it is possible to get lean and stay lean for life... and that the right approach, during dieting **and continuing it during actual maintenance** (emphasis on that bit), will prevent fat regain. Will everyone do that? No, of course not, because some people will get lazy and slip back into their old ways. Is it within people's control? Yes, absolutely. (again, possibly barring some medical issues)

    I also don't believe in "naturally thin" - so-called "naturally thin" people are just better at portion control and often they're very physically active too. They're doing things (albeit not consciously) that are keeping them thin. People who become obese, whether once or many times, are not doing those things, and so to get thin and stay thin for life, they need to do those things for life.... we're in a society that makes it very easy to get obese - freely available food delivered to your door, sedentary jobs, cars to drive you everywhere.... nearly everyone needs to make some kind of effort to stay thin, so-called naturally thin people may not be making this effort consciously - to them it may be "omg I can't take another bite, I'm full!" and "I love walking/running/cycling/sport/etc I'm going to do this a lot" and "omg I can't just sit on the sofa all day I'll get cabin fever, I have to go for a walk" etc... but they are still proactively doing things that make them stay thin. So yes, people who become obese need to learn how to do these things, and maybe for many it needs to be more of a conscious effort, as in "I have to watch my portion sizes" "I have to log my food" "I have to work out three times a week" - the successful maintainers are the ones that keep on doing what's necessary to stay lean, the ones who gain the fat back are those who stop doing those things.... that's what people are getting at with the "lifestyle change" thing - if it's not permanent, if you revert back, then it wasn't a lifestyle change, and you're not "doing it right"
  • Sabine_Stroehm
    Sabine_Stroehm Posts: 19,263 Member
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    They'll need to tell that to the tens of thousands of people on MFP who have lost the weight and are keeping it off. Sounds as if the study has a hidden agenda.
    I'd like to hear from those 10s of thousands. Only time will tell if fitness apps aid in longterm success. Only time will tell if having a calorie counter with you 24/7 will aid in longterm success (folks counted calories long before MFP). And only time will tell if the ever popular IIFYM will yield long term success for the average MFP user. We just don't have that info yet.
  • _KitKat_
    _KitKat_ Posts: 1,066 Member
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    The assumption isn't that they all did fads, cleanses etc (at least not as far as I can see)...... the assumption is that they "went on a diet" then "went off their diet" and that they didn't make a conscious effort to make their diet sustainable or put much effort into the maintenance phase of dieting. The study was on a random sample of joe public......... when you consider people who diet in general... how many of them put in the effort to make sustainable lifestyle changes as opposed to looking for quick fixes, or even if they diet with sensible deficits and exercise, how many "go on a diet" then revert back to their old ways? There's a whole load of different mistakes being made by people (cleanses and fads being one of a whole range)..... no way is it the case that 95% of people are doomed to gain back weight no matter what they do. I don't believe that for one minute. For people who don't want to be in that statistic, they need to identify all the things that yo-yo dieters are doing wrong and avoid them, and identify what successful long-term maintainers are doing right, and do those things instead.

    And this is where we fundamentally disagree, and the reason why I'm having trouble embracing all this "lifestyle change" business.

    I think it's become quite common for people to bandy about the declaration "It's not a diet, it's a lifestyle change!!!". Yet on this board alone, an extremely skewed subsection of successful people who are doing it the "right way", the failures are plentiful. The maintenance section alone spins a sad yarn of constant failure. I think a lot of people call it a "lifestyle change" in name, but eventually, whether in the course of months, a year, or a few years, revert right back to old habits.

    I suppose, until I see some concrete evidence to the contrary, I do not assume that well intentioned lifestyle changers are having considerably greater long term maintenance success, beyond perhaps maintaining relatively small losses, than anyone else.

    I think, at this point, it seems more like a lovely dream, a comfortable weight loss myth, that standing up and saying "I've made a lifestyle change!" does much.

    There is the gnawing feeling, and at this point we're all dealing in beliefs and anecdotal evidence mainly, that the overwhelming majority of people doom themselves eventually to regain most, if not all, of the weight. Yes, even the ones who did it the "right" way.

    @Iwishyouwell, you have many posts and a topic about this. I think you are being held up on the language people are using. The fact is just because someone calls it a lifestyle change does not mean it is one, they may wish it was or hope but if they have unresolved issues, it is not one. The people that are successful did make a lifestyle change, they dealt with underlying issues, taught themselves the skills they were lacking, formed healthy habits (by definition a habit is subconscious behavior and difficult to change), and did it. Those that failed or struggle are missing one of the components of an actual life change. The fact is maybe the chances of longterm success are rare but that is because by nature humans take the easy way, and weight loss the physical act is easy. The hard part is correcting and dealing with the cause and fixing the cause is the lifestyle change.

    *Lifestyle change works

    *Calling something a lifestyle change does not signify success unless an actual change occurred.

    *You are lumping the 2 together, if I had a nail in my tire I could fill my tire with air and most likely it will not be flat for a few days, I did not change my tire though so the underlying issue of the nail will flatten my tire again......but if I deal with the nail and have the mechanic plug the hole, it may last but it may not.....I dealt with the nail but I only patched the hole, it is still there. Now if I changed my tire, that old tire is irrelevant because I made a change.

    I get your analogy...but...buying a new tire is not a "lifestyle".

    The word "diet" has become a "dirty word"...only to be replace by the word "lifestyle"...which has become a "cliche"...and honestly in the end holds little meaning. Look how often it is thrown around just on MFP alone.

    My "lifestyle" has changed dramatically in the last 20 years...not just once...but several times. Through it all...I gained weight...enough said about that.

    Nothing changed until I learned to care about myself...want more for myself...until I wanted to enjoy the "lifestyle" that I already had.

    To make a long story short...

    I will resolve old issues...learn to love myself...learn to believe that I am worth it and all that life has to offer me...in order to successfully accomplish that.

    Will losing the weight and maintaining affect my lifestyle...sure it will...it will make it easier to do the things that I have always wanted to do.

    Maybe we have different definitions of "lifestyle"...

    The tire analogy was to demonstrate what change is, it is complete without a way to revert. If able to revert the main issue was not truly changed, like the plug that removed the nail but kept the hole and just putting air in as a crash diet.

    I am viewing " lifestyle change" lifestyle as an ingrained aspect of that persons life, demeanor and way of handling life....not lifestyle like economics, house, social ect. The change part I view as a change...out with the old, in with the new....the old way is gone making reverting not possible. Now can someone make a new change in the future, sure but changing the fundamentals of yourself is not an easy task, it is usually done by crisis or extreme will and could be for either bad or good. Someone who "changes" often, I would have to question whether they actually made these changes or kept the fundamentals and only altered the surface.

    @Iwishyouwell, you said I proved your point but I do not see how a false declaration is the equivalent to a truthful and accurate declaration. The one can not be used to dismiss the reasonability and success of the other. Someone claiming not to be an alcoholic because they barely ever drink and someone claiming not to be an alcoholic but needs to drink daily and thinks they could go without, but have never tried are extremely different. The person making the false claim does not disprove the person making a truthful declaration. An outsider can not say "see everyone that says they are not an alcoholic, is in fact one" the logic of this makes no sense.

    Lifestyle change = works

    False declaration of a lifestyle change = personal delusion and lying to ones self, even if having the best of intentions.

    That is why studies on this could not be done, you can not have variables of mental health, and lump these people all under one umbrella. Obesity is a symptom, the person must change.

    Honestly I think this entire topic and articles is not arguable, the interpretation of the nuances of the terms used and the lumping of a wide range of issues and mental health issues as the same because they share a common symptom (excess weight) seems to me the same as linking cancer, heart disease, asthma all under "sick people what are the odds of survival".

    Look at any health issue, fix the cause become healthy. Ignore the issue and treat the symptoms...then just hope to get better.

    Being proactive is probably the most common trait successful people have. These people do not do something " hoping it will work", they put their best effort forward and work for it, they also start anything expecting to succeed. It really is all about each persons outlook on life and their self worth. Personally I do not expect the worst and hope for the best, I find an attitude like that defeatist. I prefer making my mind up and accomplishing my goals, I have reasonable expectations of myself and fully intend to accomplish any goals I work towards.

    ETA
    Of course there is a major selection bias going on here, but the Goal: Maintaining Weight section of this forum speaks very well to your point.
     

    Pointing to the maintenance section is not always relevant either, the majority of topics posted on forum are for help. So it stands the reason that the majority of posts would be struggling people and the people that are doing just fine are A:going about their business and/or B: offering help in that forum. The success section would be a better guide, especially the people who posted a couple years ago, and then looking to see where they are now. Even that though would not be a high percentage of successes though. The majority of my most successful friends on here are too shy to post in the success thread, but they are longterm maintaining. Most don't even look at it that way, they instead are always looking to better their health, body or compete. That must me another common trait, always seeking the betterment of ones self.

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