Teacher tenure called unconstitutional

It is definitely a slippery slope.... there aren't enough teachers now as it is! Then you make it so you get rid of them at the drop of a hat, and that is going to leave even larger educational gaps than there already are!

On the other side of the slope, I'd like to see the teachers that are just there now to check the box for the day have to really work. My older kids have been through the ringer with bad teachers (as I'm sure all children do). My oldest had a teacher that actually used her as the teacher in the class! She would sit at her desk or go out in the hall to make phone calls while my daughter was teaching the class, and she was in 5th grade at the time!

This is a step in the right direction, now if we can make it a national law that it can't exist. I had teachers in high school admit that they stopped giving a crap about students as soon as they couldn't get fired. Sadly it seems like a lot of unions have tenure-like concepts that make firing the bad employees hard to do.

It is definitely a slippery slope.... there aren't enough teachers now as it is! Then you make it so you get rid of them at the drop of a hat, and that is going to leave even larger educational gaps than there already are!

On the other side of the slope, I'd like to see the teachers that are just there now to check the box for the day have to really work. My older kids have been through the ringer with bad teachers (as I'm sure all children do). My oldest had a teacher that actually used her as the teacher in the class! She would sit at her desk or go out in the hall to make phone calls while my daughter was teaching the class, and she was in 5th grade at the time!

Aren't enough teachers?

lol, what reality do you live in? The teaching industry has one of the largest supply surpluses in the United States. There are many tens of thousands of teachers waiting for an open spot. Same at the college level....plenty of people waiting for an adjunct position despite those positions only paying $20k-$35k. There is no teaching supply shortage.

I hope it would make some of the newer teachers shape up too, b/c I'm not entirely convinced the only bad teachers are the older ones. I've seen good, great, bad, and seriously WTF teachers in both age/experience groups. Luckily I'm not in a part of california where that is a major issue but I talk to enough teacher's on a personal level who have worked in enough schools that there is a real problem that needs a real remedy. This may be it.

I hope it would make some of the newer teachers shape up too, b/c I'm not entirely convinced the only bad teachers are the older ones. I've seen good, great, bad, and seriously WTF teachers in both age/experience groups. Luckily I'm not in a part of california where that is a major issue but I talk to enough teacher's on a personal level who have worked in enough schools that there is a real problem that needs a real remedy. This may be it.

I'm in a part of California that has a high educational rate (Tri Valley Area) in the public school system, so my ONLY concern would be that if a great teacher, due to tenure, has to be let go of or fired because of salary, almost any reason can be used.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Hm? I'm kind of partial to older teachers too mostly b/c everyone seems against them and they seem to bear the brunt of all the anti-teacher hate and I happen to know some good ones and I beleive it takes a balance of older experienced ones and younger one's with up to the minute ideas to create a good overall educational experience.

I too would hate for that to be used to oust an old teacher based on salary alone. Like looking for excuses to fire? I would hope that a good enough teacher might be able to see reason if brought into a meeting and explained that there were a target on his/her back due to salary and might find ways to protect their position there.

I would guess that a teacher that were good IMO would also be rational enough to listen to reason and would also be liked enough to have this brought to their attention before firing were the only option?

I hope it would make some of the newer teachers shape up too, b/c I'm not entirely convinced the only bad teachers are the older ones. I've seen good, great, bad, and seriously WTF teachers in both age/experience groups. Luckily I'm not in a part of california where that is a major issue but I talk to enough teacher's on a personal level who have worked in enough schools that there is a real problem that needs a real remedy. This may be it.

I'm in a part of California that has a high educational rate (Tri Valley Area) in the public school system, so my ONLY concern would be that if a great teacher, due to tenure, has to be let go of or fired because of salary, almost any reason can be used.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Hm? I'm kind of partial to older teachers too mostly b/c everyone seems against them and they seem to bear the brunt of all the anti-teacher hate and I happen to know some good ones and I beleive it takes a balance of older experienced ones and younger one's with up to the minute ideas to create a good overall educational experience.

I too would hate for that to be used to oust an old teacher based on salary alone. Like looking for excuses to fire? I would hope that a good enough teacher might be able to see reason if brought into a meeting and explained that there were a target on his/her back due to salary and might find ways to protect their position there.

I would guess that a teacher that were good IMO would also be rational enough to listen to reason and would also be liked enough to have this brought to their attention before firing were the only option?

One legitimate opinion that I heard on a talk show this morning (KGO) was that a college student was complaining that his "older" high school teacher refused to learn any "newer" technology training and still had them writing papers by hand for assignments.
I'd personally be concerned if an older teacher couldn't adapt to learning themselves and stuck to only educating the way they have been for 25 years. Times change and what I learned and how I learned in 4th grade is much different than how my daughter is learning in 4th grade.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Yeah but baby and bathwater. That was from the student's perspective and that teacher may have had something else in mind with that out of the current ordinary teaching assignment.

For all we know this was a one time deal.

Also a ruling like this might just be the impetus someone set in their ways needs to seek out new methods and use them in the class. Or at least justify whatever methods they are currently using to whomever is curious. Rather than just adopting a holier-than-thou attitude of untouchable me stance.

Tenure is a ridiculous concept.

This

In for more answers.

My mom used to be a high school teacher. I've promised myself that I'll only consider it after trying prostitution.

I'm not sure how tenure works at the high school level but definitely think it's a good thing at the uni level. It serves a number of less-obvious roles, such as balancing out the effect of petty rivalries and allowing faculty members who have proven their research potential to pursue topics that are less popular and/or well-funded.

Incidentally, tenure doesn't mean you can't get fired (or at least not anymore). It means you can ask for a justification if you get fired and challenge the decision if you think it's unfounded.