Eff Your Beauty Standards....?
Replies
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I actually wish this movement was around when I was a teenager.
I was 5'6" and a size 8-10 depending on what time of year it was. I was measured be a recruiter at 17 and told I only had to lose about 5-10 lbs or build a little more muscle to be fit enough for the army. I was extremely active.
Yet I was constantly being told I was fat and ugly. So I gave up. I figured if I could never be thin and beautiful why even try. I stopped exercising and started eating anything and everything I wanted. In the 3-4 years after high school I almost doubled my weight.
I'm learning to love myself. I may never fit the beauty standards but at this point I don't care. Even at my highest weight I was able to find a picture of my face that I thought was beautiful and my husband still loves me. This is what has made me realize I am worth it even if nobody else thinks I am.0 -
Some people who are obese can be healthy.
Please explain this...
My mother 5'2, 200 pounds. She's obese, she has been for 30 years. Her blood work is perfect, is on no medication. She works a very physically demanding job and keeps up just fine with people half her age -- the woman barely gets head colds. She is totally healthy.
Is she at a higher risk for disease? Yes. But that doesn't make one "unhealthy". If that were true, people with a higher genetic predisposition for say breast cancer, were less healthy than those with a lower generic risk. Health is a complex concept.
So by that reasoning, the obese person with good blood markers is only ever "unhealthy" during the few seconds of their heart attack. The previous 50 years of their life were adequately "healthy".
Right.
Heart disease, diabetes, various cancers --- all have early symptoms/stages and follow a path -- you don't just wake up and have them -- unless you are ignoring your health and not regularly seeing a physician. Which happens to fat and thin people alike.
If an obese person regularly sees the doctor and doesn't have any symptoms and no indicators (from tests/blood work) of disease, they are healthy. They are at a higher risk of developing disease -- just like anyone else with higher risk from things like genetics or lifestyle (smoking etc). The higher risk doesn't automatically mean one is currently unhealthy -- it means they have a higher risk of being unhealthy in the future.0 -
Some people who are obese can be healthy.
The favored line of the obesity promoters. Healthy for a year or two, yes. There is NO avoiding long term damage from obesity. period. Just think of the extra strain on the heart. This is unavoidable.
Go to any given obesity acceptance site. There will be hundreds of people claiming they are healthy and use some absurd rationale. Would be interesting to check back with them in 20 years and see the result of the behavior. I doubt it'd be pretty.
But embracing mediocrity is easy. Much harder to make a change.
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Some people who are obese can be healthy.
Please explain this...
I would also like to know how you can be obese and healthy...
When I was 175 lbs (5'2") my cholesterol, BP, and every other test was perfect. Never an issue.
Now I am 125, eating healthy and losing the right way for 3 yrs to lose almost 50 pounds. My BP is up, my cholesterol is 297, I have IBS, Reflux, and chronic migraines.
So I think there are people who are obese and have all healthy stats, BUT..............and a BIG BUTT HERE (ok not so much anymore
) It will catch up with you. Youth helps offset the effects of the additional weight on the body, and the proper nutrition that you need.
If you are obese for too long, eventually.........it. will. catch. up. to. you. Period. I am 53 and have watched many friends go through hell due to being obese. If I could tell young people (under 30) ONE thing it would be take care of your body, it needs to last a long time!
Thank God all of my issues can be taken care of with medication, altering yet again my foods, and exercise (except the migraines) Most of the other issues where caused from years of eating CRAP and only CRAP.
Also, I am thankful my joints are all in good shape. Most of the issues I see with my friends are hips, knees, ankles giving out. Talk about a bummer. Cant walk :ohwell:0 -
Some people who are obese can be healthy.
Please explain this...
My mother 5'2, 200 pounds. She's obese, she has been for 30 years. Her blood work is perfect, is on no medication. She works a very physically demanding job and keeps up just fine with people half her age -- the woman barely gets head colds. She is totally healthy.
Is she at a higher risk for disease? Yes. But that doesn't make one "unhealthy". If that were true, people with a higher genetic predisposition for say breast cancer, were less healthy than those with a lower generic risk. Health is a complex concept.
Obese people have a higher percentage of illness then people who are not obese. Your mom has a higher likelihood for diabetes, stroke, heart disease, HBP, and so on. Healthy or unhealthy she is at a higher risk for these things then those who are not obese. And people with family history of health issues are provided a higher cost of insurances for a reason. Just like smokers, folks with DUI's, history of your family members impacts your costs of certain insurances. No idea what is complex about health. You are either moving toward a healthier you, or you are not.0 -
Some people who are obese can be healthy.
Please explain this...
My mother 5'2, 200 pounds. She's obese, she has been for 30 years. Her blood work is perfect, is on no medication. She works a very physically demanding job and keeps up just fine with people half her age -- the woman barely gets head colds. She is totally healthy.
Is she at a higher risk for disease? Yes. But that doesn't make one "unhealthy". If that were true, people with a higher genetic predisposition for say breast cancer, were less healthy than those with a lower generic risk. Health is a complex concept.
So by that reasoning, the obese person with good blood markers is only ever "unhealthy" during the few seconds of their heart attack. The previous 50 years of their life were adequately "healthy".
Right.
If an obese person regularly sees the doctor and doesn't have any symptoms and no indicators (from tests/blood work) of disease, they are healthy. They are at a higher risk of developing disease -- just like anyone else with higher risk from things like genetics or lifestyle (smoking etc). The higher risk doesn't automatically mean one is currently unhealthy -- it means they have a higher risk of being unhealthy in the future.
No. No they are not.
Your line of thinking has quite literally killed many tens of thousands of people. Especially men who are already prone to heart issues. A number of heart malfunctions can hit WITHOUT prior indication from routine tests and bloodwork. And obesity absolutely increases that risk
The bloodwork done on 99% of patients DOES NOT test every indicator and does NOT preclude a fatal problem.
Honestly, posts like yours are shocking. I have friends and family, now passed, who were given the green light from doctors, tests, and bloodwork. They weren't healthy.0 -
If everyone were a normal weight would a lot of people be unemployed?0
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If everyone were a normal weight would a lot of people be unemployed?
No, we would other way to kill ourselves off0 -
How do you go from we shouldn't accept obesity because it's unhealthy to trying to tell other other people why they should wear?
The best advise for all people to recognize that nobody is prefect, that the media has disordered what people look like -- so be kind to yourselves, treat your body well -- take care, basically. This should take up enough of your time that you don't pay mind to what anyone else is doing. If you have time to worry other women in binikis, your focus is off.
Took the words right out of my mouth, though you wrote it more eloquently than I would have. I was all on board with everything OP wrote until she began policing what women "should" wear. Aside from that, I agree.
And the above advice is great.0 -
Some people who are obese can be healthy.
Please explain this...
Yeah, I really can't see how that would work...0 -
If everyone were a normal weight would a lot of people be unemployed?
No, we would other way to kill ourselves off
Maybe I should rephrase my question: aren't there a heck of a lot of people who currently benefit off of the obesity epidemic?0 -
I mean really - who gives a damn? I dont really care for what others do with their lives or their bodies. If they want to be obese and think its okay - fine! Thats natural selection at its finest. As long as I am healthy and I set a good example for my children (if I had any), nothing anyone else does that has absolutely no direct impact on me, I could not care less for.0
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As a med student and Biologist, I think fat acceptance is the worst thing to ever come out of the internet. Its toxic and actively kills people. Not to mention the misinformation it spreads around like wildfire.
There is no such thing as a healthy obese person. Obesity itself is a disease. Its like advocating for lung cancer acceptance. Its not about "beauty", its about health.
Bloodwork and vitals are a shot in time, they they you nothing about a patients overall health. You get ICU patients on ventilators with PERFECT CBCs who maintain BPs in the 110/70 without vasopressin - would you call them healthy? This type of logic is flawed and kills every single day.
Fat is not just fat, its endocrine tissue, metabolic tissue, it produces hormones, it messes with every single marker of inflammation in your body, down to every single cell. Want to wake up to DVTs at age 20, diabetes at 30, bypasses at 40? That isn't natural, shouldn't exist and did not - its a young, recent and horrible phenomenon, unobserved until three, four decades ago. Just look at our young.
As for beauty "standards", aesthetics exist for a reason, biological imperative being one. Another being philosophical. There's a golden rule, there's symmetry. Read Kant, read the Greeks, but also try to understand natural Evolution and Fertility markers. Humans are animals and attraction is much hardwired. If everything and anything is "beautiful", then nothing by definition is. Standards are important for genetic improval as well. There is a reason I'm not fertile, I carry a trait for a blood disorder that would not benefit offspring. Obesity is a visual marker of I'll health - we are hard wired to reject on the premise of selection.
Sorry if this all came out rude in any way.0 -
If everyone were a normal weight would a lot of people be unemployed?
No, we would other way to kill ourselves off
Maybe I should rephrase my question: aren't there a heck of a lot of people who currently benefit off of the obesity epidemic?
Absolutely, but the medical profession made tons off the prior generation for their issues.0 -
As a med student and Biologist, I think fat acceptance is the worst thing to ever come out of the internet. Its toxic and actively kills people. Not to mention the misinformation it spreads around like wildfire.
There is no such thing as a healthy obese person. Obesity itself is a disease. Its like advocating for lung cancer acceptance. Its not about "beauty", its about health.
Bloodwork and vitals are a shot in time, they they you nothing about a patients overall health. You get ICU patients on ventilators with PERFECT CBCs who maintain BPs in the 110/70 without vasopressin - would you call them healthy? This type of logic is flawed and kills every single day.
Fat is not just fat, its endocrine tissue, metabolic tissue, it produces hormones, it messes with every single marker of inflammation in your body, down to every single cell. Want to wake up to DVTs at age 20, diabetes at 30, bypasses at 40? That isn't natural, shouldn't exist and did not - its a young, recent and horrible phenomenon, unobserved until three, four decades ago. Just look at our young.
As for beauty "standards", aesthetics exist for a reason, biological imperative being one. Another being philosophical. There's a golden rule, there's symmetry. Read Kant, read the Greeks, but also try to understand natural Evolution and Fertility markers. Humans are animals and attraction is much hardwired. If everything and anything is "beautiful", then nothing by definition is. Standards are important for genetic improval as well. There is a reason I'm not fertile, I carry a trait for a blood disorder that would not benefit offspring. Obesity is a visual marker of I'll health - we are hard wired to reject on the premise of selection.
Sorry if this all came out rude in any way.
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I mean really - who gives a damn? I dont really care for what others do with their lives or their bodies. If they want to be obese and think its okay - fine! Thats natural selection at its finest. As long as I am healthy and I set a good example for my children (if I had any), nothing anyone else does that has absolutely no direct impact on me, I could not care less for.
Except obesity and obesity-related health problems are a huge drain on healthcare and fuel consumption.0 -
Just want to point out-- shaming someone is taking something about a person that is harmless and/or beyond their control and then attacking them as people for it. Fat shaming DOES happen, however...
Obesity is always unhealthy and dangerous, and if you are obese you need to make changes or face very scary consequences. (AHEM. Death.) This is a statement of fact, and not a personal attack. Some people need a wake-up call, and it is the most loving thing in the world
Fat-celebration is just as unhealthy as fat-shaming.
(edited for grammar)0 -
you can be obese and "healthy", or not.
it all depends on your definition of healthy.
a millionaire can be rich, but is no billionaire.0 -
I mean really - who gives a damn? I dont really care for what others do with their lives or their bodies. If they want to be obese and think its okay - fine! Thats natural selection at its finest. As long as I am healthy and I set a good example for my children (if I had any), nothing anyone else does that has absolutely no direct impact on me, I could not care less for.
Except obesity and obesity-related health problems are a huge drain on healthcare and fuel consumption.
So are smoking, drinking and getting old. Seriously?0 -
I mean really - who gives a damn? I dont really care for what others do with their lives or their bodies. If they want to be obese and think its okay - fine! Thats natural selection at its finest. As long as I am healthy and I set a good example for my children (if I had any), nothing anyone else does that has absolutely no direct impact on me, I could not care less for.
Except obesity and obesity-related health problems are a huge drain on healthcare and fuel consumption.
So are smoking, drinking and getting old. Seriously?
I just want to know how we got to fuel consumption, did I miss something?0 -
Love this show!0 -
Some people who are obese can be healthy.
The favored line of the obesity promoters. Healthy for a year or two, yes. There is NO avoiding long term damage from obesity. period. Just think of the extra strain on the heart. This is unavoidable.
Go to any given obesity acceptance site. There will be hundreds of people claiming they are healthy and use some absurd rationale. Would be interesting to check back with them in 20 years and see the result of the behavior. I doubt it'd be pretty.
But embracing mediocrity is easy. Much harder to make a change.
I have a friend who is very short and weighed about 200 lbs. She has a permanently enlarged heart because of being so overweight even after she lost the weight. It is a known fact that overweight animals have a shorter life span so why would that not also apply to humans.0 -
Tl;dr - I won't wear a bikini at my size and I don't think other obese women should either.
If you don't want to wear something "at your size" that's your prerogative. But I'm pretty sure obese people don't care about what you think they should and shouldn't be wearing.
PS: You're not their doctor or their loved one, so please cut the "it's so unhealthy" malarky like you care about their health. Just be honest and say you're uncomfortable with obesity and obese people. At least that way you're biased but honest about it.0 -
I mean really - who gives a damn? I dont really care for what others do with their lives or their bodies. If they want to be obese and think its okay - fine! Thats natural selection at its finest. As long as I am healthy and I set a good example for my children (if I had any), nothing anyone else does that has absolutely no direct impact on me, I could not care less for.
Except obesity and obesity-related health problems are a huge drain on healthcare and fuel consumption.
So are smoking, drinking and getting old. Seriously?
I just want to know how we got to fuel consumption, did I miss something?
An extra 200 lbs on a 1000 mi flight amounts to somewhere around $30-$45 (iirc). So you're looking at many many millions spent per year due to overweight passengers. All of which are reflected in ticket prices in such a low profit margin industry.
Just sayin. The healthcare cost increase is many times higher, and much higher than the costs of drinking and smoking. Although I suppose keynesian economists would say this increases aggregate demand and is a net positive (yeah right)0 -
I mean really - who gives a damn? I dont really care for what others do with their lives or their bodies. If they want to be obese and think its okay - fine! Thats natural selection at its finest. As long as I am healthy and I set a good example for my children (if I had any), nothing anyone else does that has absolutely no direct impact on me, I could not care less for.
Except obesity and obesity-related health problems are a huge drain on healthcare and fuel consumption.
So are smoking, drinking and getting old. Seriously?
Getting old is unavoidable, the rest aren't. That said, by your logic we shouldn't be trying to curb obesity in this country just because there are other ways people ruin their bodies and put a strain on healthcare in this country. I'm not saying that the others aren't tremendous problems, but to ignore the growing numbers of obesity in this country and the effect it has is foolish.
As for fuel consumption:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1075904_the-cost-of-obesity-to-fuel-use-one-billion-gallons-a-year
There are also a few studies on the matter, including one by a Sheldon H. Jacobson if you'd like to look that up.0 -
There is a differences between curves and fat. If a woman is shaped like a woman, as opposed to a ten year old boy, she gets called fat. That is a totally different issue than calling an overweight woman "curvy" as a euphemism as opposed to an accurate descriptor.0
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Some people who are obese can be healthy.
Please explain this...
My mother 5'2, 200 pounds. She's obese, she has been for 30 years. Her blood work is perfect, is on no medication. She works a very physically demanding job and keeps up just fine with people half her age -- the woman barely gets head colds. She is totally healthy.
Is she at a higher risk for disease? Yes. But that doesn't make one "unhealthy". If that were true, people with a higher genetic predisposition for say breast cancer, were less healthy than those with a lower generic risk. Health is a complex concept.
So by that reasoning, the obese person with good blood markers is only ever "unhealthy" during the few seconds of their heart attack. The previous 50 years of their life were adequately "healthy".
Right.
Heart disease, diabetes, various cancers --- all have early symptoms/stages and follow a path -- you don't just wake up and have them -- unless you are ignoring your health and not regularly seeing a physician. Which happens to fat and thin people alike.
If an obese person regularly sees the doctor and doesn't have any symptoms and no indicators (from tests/blood work) of disease, they are healthy. They are at a higher risk of developing disease -- just like anyone else with higher risk from things like genetics or lifestyle (smoking etc). The higher risk doesn't automatically mean one is currently unhealthy -- it means they have a higher risk of being unhealthy in the future.
No, you are wrong, they are not just like any non-obese with clear tests and you are confusing future risks into this. Clear tests in an obese patient only means we cannot detect any problems with the tests we used on that visit. It does not mean that there is not more wear and tear on the bones, joints, liver, heart, pancreas and kidneys in an obese person going on continually from day to day vs a non obese person, just that at this point in time, their body is dealing with the increased stresses in a manner that hasn't developed into a disease yet...as best we can tell from the limited tests performed. Yes, it does mean the risks are higher in the future, but that does not mean you do not have non-detected increased wear going on already in that "healthy" testing obese individual.
And you'll still have a few 90yo obese "healthy people" just like you have a few 100 yo smokers that are more resilient than the vast majority of people and this doesn't invalidate the fact that obesity and smoking are not good for your body! It also doesn't mean it didn't affect the 90yo obese and 100 yo smoker, maybe they'd live to 115 instead of 110, or not gotten bedridden in the last years of life without being obese and smoking.0 -
As a med student and Biologist, I think fat acceptance is the worst thing to ever come out of the internet. Its toxic and actively kills people. Not to mention the misinformation it spreads around like wildfire.
There is no such thing as a healthy obese person. Obesity itself is a disease. Its like advocating for lung cancer acceptance. Its not about "beauty", its about health.
Bloodwork and vitals are a shot in time, they they you nothing about a patients overall health. You get ICU patients on ventilators with PERFECT CBCs who maintain BPs in the 110/70 without vasopressin - would you call them healthy? This type of logic is flawed and kills every single day.
Fat is not just fat, its endocrine tissue, metabolic tissue, it produces hormones, it messes with every single marker of inflammation in your body, down to every single cell. Want to wake up to DVTs at age 20, diabetes at 30, bypasses at 40? That isn't natural, shouldn't exist and did not - its a young, recent and horrible phenomenon, unobserved until three, four decades ago. Just look at our young.
As for beauty "standards", aesthetics exist for a reason, biological imperative being one. Another being philosophical. There's a golden rule, there's symmetry. Read Kant, read the Greeks, but also try to understand natural Evolution and Fertility markers. Humans are animals and attraction is much hardwired. If everything and anything is "beautiful", then nothing by definition is. Standards are important for genetic improval as well. There is a reason I'm not fertile, I carry a trait for a blood disorder that would not benefit offspring. Obesity is a visual marker of I'll health - we are hard wired to reject on the premise of selection.
Sorry if this all came out rude in any way.
People have been fighting against weight discrimination since before the Internet became widely used. It is not a newly born thing.
As for health vs aesthetics, the vast majority of things people in the fat acceptance movement struggle with is aesthetic stigma that often masquerades as concern for health. People can and do use health as an excuse to be cruel and to push fat people out of spaces where they should be treated equally. It is very easy to say, "I'm just worried about health," even if the issue has nothing at all to do with health and everything to do with personal preferences for looks (i.e. - OP's thoroughly-trampled bikini comment).
Keeping in line with the subject of looks, implying that fat people need to be ugly in order to maintain the significance of beauty is asinine. What is attractive changes with time, and seems to be much more connected to what the group at large prefers than what is likely to be "hardwired" in us as a species. For example, plumper women were often portrayed in art that was meant to display what was considered to be beautiful in the past, and that trend has been changing over the years. Saying that fat people are supposed to be collectively unattractive because of our biological wiring ignores the complexity that conventional attractiveness gains from sociocultural influence.
Of course, the biggest thing that needs to be pointed out is that fat acceptance, at its core, is about giving fat people the respect they deserve as human beings. If anyone can agree with treating a fat person cruelly because of either health OR looks then they are a person who, in my opinion, does not have a rational voice in the discussion.0 -
I think we as a global community need to start encouraging each other to be healthier and get our lives on track. But it needs to be done in a positive/encouraging way.0
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As a med student and Biologist, I think fat acceptance is the worst thing to ever come out of the internet. Its toxic and actively kills people. Not to mention the misinformation it spreads around like wildfire.
There is no such thing as a healthy obese person. Obesity itself is a disease. Its like advocating for lung cancer acceptance. Its not about "beauty", its about health.
Bloodwork and vitals are a shot in time, they they you nothing about a patients overall health. You get ICU patients on ventilators with PERFECT CBCs who maintain BPs in the 110/70 without vasopressin - would you call them healthy? This type of logic is flawed and kills every single day.
Fat is not just fat, its endocrine tissue, metabolic tissue, it produces hormones, it messes with every single marker of inflammation in your body, down to every single cell. Want to wake up to DVTs at age 20, diabetes at 30, bypasses at 40? That isn't natural, shouldn't exist and did not - its a young, recent and horrible phenomenon, unobserved until three, four decades ago. Just look at our young.
As for beauty "standards", aesthetics exist for a reason, biological imperative being one. Another being philosophical. There's a golden rule, there's symmetry. Read Kant, read the Greeks, but also try to understand natural Evolution and Fertility markers. Humans are animals and attraction is much hardwired. If everything and anything is "beautiful", then nothing by definition is. Standards are important for genetic improval as well. There is a reason I'm not fertile, I carry a trait for a blood disorder that would not benefit offspring. Obesity is a visual marker of I'll health - we are hard wired to reject on the premise of selection.
Sorry if this all came out rude in any way.
People have been fighting against weight discrimination since before the Internet became widely used. It is not a newly born thing.
As for health vs aesthetics, the vast majority of things people in the fat acceptance movement struggle with is aesthetic stigma that often masquerades as concern for health. People can and do use health as an excuse to be cruel and to push fat people out of spaces where they should be treated equally. It is very easy to say, "I'm just worried about health," even if the issue has nothing at all to do with health and everything to do with personal preferences for looks (i.e. - OP's thoroughly-trampled bikini comment).
Keeping in line with the subject of looks, implying that fat people need to be ugly in order to maintain the significance of beauty is asinine. What is attractive changes with time, and seems to be much more connected to what the group at large prefers than what is likely to be "hardwired" in us as a species. For example, plumper women were often portrayed in art that was meant to display what was considered to be beautiful in the past, and that trend has been changing over the years. Saying that fat people are supposed to be collectively unattractive because of our biological wiring ignores the complexity that conventional attractiveness gains from sociocultural influence.
Of course, the biggest thing that needs to be pointed out is that fat acceptance, at its core, is about giving fat people the respect they deserve as human beings. If anyone can agree with treating a fat person cruelly because of either health OR looks then they are a person who, in my opinion, does not have a rational voice in the discussion.
Do you have a source for the art thing?0
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