Squats + Dead lifts

kapoorpk
kapoorpk Posts: 244 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
On a push, pull, legs split, just recently introduced dead lifts into my routine. For legs, until recently, I was hitting multiple exercises to complete the entire leg muscle group, i.e. leg press, leg curl, leg extensions & calf raises to hit the quads, hams and calves.

Would performing squats & dead lifts on the same day eliminate the need to do all these other exercises? Meaning, these two should cover quads, hams and calves enough that performing leg curls, etc. would be an overkill.

Thoughts?
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Replies

  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    I say yes hestiantly.

    I dont' like doing mine on the same day. And I also don't JUST like doing squats and deads- lunges are SUCH a fantastic addition- there isn't a reason to NOT add them.

    Same with Ghetto glute raises or barbell bridge lifts and or pistol squats.

    Just to much good stuff to ONLY do 2 exercises.

    But I mean- if you HAD to only do two- I'd probably pick those two. LOL
  • 1911JR
    1911JR Posts: 276
    On a push, pull, legs split, just recently introduced dead lifts into my routine. For legs, until recently, I was hitting multiple exercises to complete the entire leg muscle group, i.e. leg press, leg curl, leg extensions & calf raises to hit the quads, hams and calves.

    Would performing squats & dead lifts on the same day eliminate the need to do all these other exercises? Meaning, these two should cover quads, hams and calves enough that performing leg curls, etc. would be an overkill.

    Thoughts?

    I see no point in all the leg curls & extensions and so on. All they do is make your knee`s hurt.

    No way, I can do squats and deadlifts on the same day.

    If you deadlift and squat properly and heavy, that other stuff isn`t needed. I do deadlifts on back (pull) day. Legg presses are great for building a big butt. I say squat and always remember, *kitten* to the grass or leave it racked. Don`t be afraid to go heavy and just do more sets.

    If you need more on your hamstrings, do some arched back good morning or stiff leg dead lifts.
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
    As mentioned above, no way I could do deadlifts and squats on the same day. Those two exercises activate so much muscle in your body, and are so taxing that I just don't see how someone could do both effectively in one workout. If you do a muscle group split, deadlifts really belong on back day anyway in my opinion. They're much more of a back workout than a leg workout.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
    Typically deadlifts are done on a "pull" day in a push, pull, legs split.

    Yes, all leg muscles will be used with these two exercises. You can still do some isolation stuff if you want.

    Or, other squat and deadlift variations to change the target muscle group.
  • steve0820
    steve0820 Posts: 510 Member
    I hit a lighter session of deads on leg day, and my heavier session on Back day. If I went heavy on both Squats and Deads the same day, i'd would probably be pretty taxing for sure.

    Besides that for legs, I only do Bridges or Thrusters and pistols, pretty much my whole leg workout.
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
    I do them both on the same day. You just can't go overboard on the volume.

    It'll take a few sessions to get used to the workload too, so be prepared to be humbled if you try it.

    Edit - I pull sumo btw, so it might be different.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    I say yes hestiantly.

    I dont' like doing mine on the same day. And I also don't JUST like doing squats and deads- lunges are SUCH a fantastic addition- there isn't a reason to NOT add them.


    Knee stability issues would make a fine reason to not add lunges.

    Squats and deads though? I squat every lifting session, and since I'm not a body builder, I don't hit the leg curls, or leg press machine. I'll squat first, then deadlift once or twice a week. I don't think it's causing issues, I'm still pulling more weight with the deadlift than I can grip.

    The only downside is that afterwards you are spent, you might hurt, and you will be sore.
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
    Another way to do it is to split Back Squats out onto one day and pair it with Romanian Deadlifts. Then on the regular Deadlift day team it up with Front Squats. You'll hit everything without needing all the extra leg curls and stuff.

    That way you get to squat and deadlift both days, but the RDL and FS don't put such a crimp in your recovery... You still have to pitch the volume and intensity so that you don't eff yourself up, though...
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    I say yes hestiantly.

    I dont' like doing mine on the same day. And I also don't JUST like doing squats and deads- lunges are SUCH a fantastic addition- there isn't a reason to NOT add them.


    Knee stability issues would make a fine reason to not add lunges.

    Squats and deads though? I squat every lifting session, and since I'm not a body builder, I don't hit the leg curls, or leg press machine. I'll squat first, then deadlift once or twice a week. I don't think it's causing issues, I'm still pulling more weight with the deadlift than I can grip.

    The only downside is that afterwards you are spent, you might hurt, and you will be sore.

    gosh I hate how every thing must be premised with
    "out side of medical limitations you personally might have"

    but there it is.

    And I do not think that knee stability issues are a reason to not do them_ i think it's a better reason TO work on them. Balance and stability do not get better on their own- they get better because you work on them. Outside of MEDICAL reasons- don't do them- same with squats and deads- but typically working on a balance/stability issue through challenging your balance and stability- the stuff gets better. But as always one must listen to their OWN body.
  • Tomm88
    Tomm88 Posts: 733 Member
    Ye man if you do squats and deads then whole bunch of other stuff afterwards all it's going to do is cut into your recovery, you'll be sore for days, plus just doing 2 excersises is way easier to track, weights, reps etc..
  • arabianhorselover
    arabianhorselover Posts: 1,488 Member
    I do them both on the same day. It's part of Stronglifts 5x5 to do that, but you always do squats first.
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
    A lot of it depends on your goals and how often you can train. You can definitely do it if you wanted, but probably want lower intensity for the squats when you DL. Also, dynamic effort squatting & dl'ing can be done in the same session as well. It all depends on your goals to be honest.

    Leg Curls and Extensions have some merit in your training, goal dependent really. Some tests for athletes actually include a strength ratio between the two exercises. But honestly, squat hard, DL hard and if you need some extra work then add it in slowly. If you're goal is more bodybuilding that's really out of my zone of knowledge or interest, but I'm not sure how conventional DL'ing you'd need there or not.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    I say yes hestiantly.

    I dont' like doing mine on the same day. And I also don't JUST like doing squats and deads- lunges are SUCH a fantastic addition- there isn't a reason to NOT add them.


    Knee stability issues would make a fine reason to not add lunges.

    Squats and deads though? I squat every lifting session, and since I'm not a body builder, I don't hit the leg curls, or leg press machine. I'll squat first, then deadlift once or twice a week. I don't think it's causing issues, I'm still pulling more weight with the deadlift than I can grip.

    The only downside is that afterwards you are spent, you might hurt, and you will be sore.

    gosh I hate how every thing must be premised with
    "out side of medical limitations you personally might have"

    but there it is.

    And I do not think that knee stability issues are a reason to not do them_ i think it's a better reason TO work on them. Balance and stability do not get better on their own- they get better because you work on them. Outside of MEDICAL reasons- don't do them- same with squats and deads- but typically working on a balance/stability issue through challenging your balance and stability- the stuff gets better. But as always one must listen to their OWN body.

    So legit question, what is a lunge going to do for someone more efficiently than a squat will?
  • sjaplo
    sjaplo Posts: 974 Member
    I find it interesting that a number of posters have stated they don't do both on the same day. I'm following NROL and that has me doing squats/deadlifts w/ shrugs as a superset. Now granted, I'm only at 105lbs - but it is doable for me at this point. Maybe it won't be when I get to higher weights. The program follows this with a superset of bulgarian split squats and step ups. and finishes with reverse crunches. The rest period and reps change each time. first was 4/10 w/ 60 sec rest. Today was 5/5 w/ 90 sec rest (which I found way too long) and the next will be 3/15 with a 30 sec rest.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    Bonus question, what will a lunge do more safely than a squat? Considering how off weight and balance is distributed, it seems fairly high risk and suspceptible to shearing forces on the knees at any heavy weights.
  • LolBroScience
    LolBroScience Posts: 4,537 Member
    I find it interesting that a number of posters have stated they don't do both on the same day. I'm following NROL and that has me doing squats/deadlifts w/ shrugs as a superset. Now granted, I'm only at 105lbs - but it is doable for me at this point. Maybe it won't be when I get to higher weights. The program follows this with a superset of bulgarian split squats and step ups. and finishes with reverse crunches. The rest period and reps change each time. first was 4/10 w/ 60 sec rest. Today was 5/5 w/ 90 sec rest (which I found way too long) and the next will be 3/15 with a 30 sec rest.

    I think most who are saying they don't, are doing Squats or Deads with a higher percentage of their 1RM.

    If your training a high volume at 85%+ there's only so much work you're going to be able to do until you're tapped...whereas, with a rep range of around 10, you're probably in the 60-70% range. Not as taxing on the body.
  • MagnumBurrito
    MagnumBurrito Posts: 1,070 Member
    My calves don't grow with squats or deads. They were never big to begin with. High calf genetics.
  • elroberto78
    elroberto78 Posts: 13
    They're the two greatest muscle stimulating exercises in existence. And I don't have a problem with doing them the same day (though I'm on a fullbody routine right now anyway so don't get much choice). As far as squat depth, if you're doing highbar squats by all means go *kitten* to grass if you're doing low bar squats then just get your *kitten* below parallel with your knees...there's nothing to be gained by going any lower due to the different biomechanics of it.
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
    So legit question, what is a lunge going to do for someone more efficiently than a squat will?

    Generally speaking, most people will benefit greatly from squatting alone. The lunge, especially a walking lunge, is an exercise that one can use to help build some balance, stability, and endurance. A lunge is obviously not something you're going to load at 80% to 90% of your 1RM. It's something that is light but challenging that you knock-out for a couple sets of 10 to 15 reps. Is it necessary? No. Will you get benefit from it? Yes.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Apparently having good balance and stability in the knee just isn't a priority to some people.

    I do walking lunges- with a pause and releve lift between (so come up on one foot- balance and calf raise)... then go backwards and balance on one foot- nix the calf raise on the backwards.

    It's great for the butt- the core- the little stablizers in the knee.

    do you NEED them?
    nope

    are they a nice addition?
    yup.
  • aledba
    aledba Posts: 564 Member
    I do them both on the same day. It's part of Stronglifts 5x5 to do that, but you always do squats first.
    YAY! Stronglifts! I do them both on the same day, for the most part. As I progress, I'll probably split them up.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    Apparently having good balance and stability in the knee just isn't a priority to some people.

    Let's be clear, that's not what I asked.

    Now another poster alluded to it helping combat runner's knee (patellofemoral instability issues). Is that what you were talking about?

    Considering distribution of balance, isn't there a strong potential for shearing force on the knee when the person doing it loses balance?
  • brower47
    brower47 Posts: 16,356 Member
    Apparently having good balance and stability in the knee just isn't a priority to some people.

    Let's be clear, that's not what I asked.

    Now another poster alluded to it helping combat runner's knee (patellofemoral instability issues). Is that what you were talking about?

    Considering distribution of balance, isn't there a strong potential for shearing force on the knee when the person doing it loses balance?

    Isn't there a potential for injury when losing balance no matter the activity?
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
    Eh. From how lunges look, you are spreading your balance over a long plane, and fairly susceptible to perpendicular shift. That's been my concern about the lunge, personally.

    Hell, if it's the de facto thing to build knee stability, who am I to argue that, seems like it is time to try it. I'm just curious how it does that while still mitigating potential shear.
  • kelly_e_montana
    kelly_e_montana Posts: 1,999 Member
    If I'm not working at a high percentage of my 1 rm, I can superset squats and deads. I do think of deads as a back exercise as much as a lower body exercise. I only deadlift once per week for the most part. I usually squat 2x per week. I don't do all that other lower body stuff except maybe calf raises once per week just for aesthetics. For assistance exercises, I like lunges with an overhead plate, glute-ham raises (usually weighted) and good mornings. The lunges do really help with stability. I also work on pistol squats once every week or two for the same reason. It sounds like you, the OP, are looking to get away from machines and into the direction of more functional moves, and I think that's great.:smile:
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
    Eh. From how lunges look, you are spreading your balance over a long plane, and fairly susceptible to perpendicular shift. That's been my concern about the lunge, personally.

    Hell, if it's the de facto thing to build knee stability, who am I to argue that, seems like it is time to try it. I'm just curious how it does that while still mitigating potential shear.

    Then do them unweighted and just practice with your BW until you get the movement correct. But that's one of the benefits of a unilateral movements, building stability.
  • jason_adams
    jason_adams Posts: 187 Member
    Do them.
    Do them both.

    And never, ever, skip leg day.

    *I can't believe we're on page 2 and this hasn't come up....
  • mryak750
    mryak750 Posts: 198 Member
    don't restrict yourself..try it out and see how you feel
  • msncush
    msncush Posts: 23 Member
    if you do the squat correctly, it works all your lower muscle.
  • wonderwoman234
    wonderwoman234 Posts: 551 Member
    Bonus question, what will a lunge do more safely than a squat? Considering how off weight and balance is distributed, it seems fairly high risk and suspceptible to shearing forces on the knees at any heavy weights.

    This.....

    I pulled out both right and left gluteals (not on the same day) doing lunges after squats and deadlifts. Never doing that again.

    I posted another thread a while ago about this and there were lots of anti-lunge peeps. I guess everyone has to do what works for them.

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