Risk of Moving on from 5x5 too Early?
_lyndseybrooke_
Posts: 2,561 Member
I just completed my 12th week of the SL 5x5 program and I'm really itching to move on. I haven't quite "stalled" on all of my lifts, but I have had to tweak the program in order to go up in weight. The real reason I want to switch is that, though I like the simplicity of 5x5 and have gotten great results in the past 12 weeks, I'm incredibly bored with it. I want some variety in my lifting.
I decided to switch to 5/3/1 - one compound lift each day with 3 accessory lifts, lifting 4x/week with 1 day of cardio. Check out my most recent blog post to see what my accessory lifts are. I've already made up all of my spreadsheets, did my research, etc. and I'm really excited to get started. I know that I should probably do 5x5 for much longer until I completely stall out, but I can't stand the thought of being bored with my lifting routine.
I'm up to my bodyweight on squats and bodyweight + 15 lbs on deadlifts. I've stalled out on bench, rows, and OHP and I've been stuck at the same weight for a few weeks even though I've deloaded, decreased reps, used fractional plates, etc. I just can't seem to break through, so I'm at 82 lbs on bench press and rows and only 60 lbs on OHP. My form is good on all of my lifts and I regularly record myself to make sure of that. According to the Strength Standards website, I've hit "intermediate" on all of my lifts - I definitely don't consider myself an intermediate lifter after only 12 weeks of serious lifting, but I do feel like I'm ready to move on.
My question is this: What risk am I taking by moving on "too early" from 5x5? I mean, what's the worst that could happen? I didn't find NROL4W, SS, or Strong Curves all that appealing, so I don't really want to move on to a different beginner program like that. I'm not looking for suggestions on different programs - I mean, there are people that never do a beginner program and they still do fine - I'm just trying to figure out what negative effects I should expect from quitting 5x5 for something else.
ETA: I completely forgot to put my goals here, and I know someone will ask. I'm working on dropping the last 5ish lbs, but that'll be taken care of thanks to eating at a slight deficit and I'm not too worried about the scale at this point. I don't aspire to be a bodybuilder or anything - I just want to gain some strength and look good naked.
I decided to switch to 5/3/1 - one compound lift each day with 3 accessory lifts, lifting 4x/week with 1 day of cardio. Check out my most recent blog post to see what my accessory lifts are. I've already made up all of my spreadsheets, did my research, etc. and I'm really excited to get started. I know that I should probably do 5x5 for much longer until I completely stall out, but I can't stand the thought of being bored with my lifting routine.
I'm up to my bodyweight on squats and bodyweight + 15 lbs on deadlifts. I've stalled out on bench, rows, and OHP and I've been stuck at the same weight for a few weeks even though I've deloaded, decreased reps, used fractional plates, etc. I just can't seem to break through, so I'm at 82 lbs on bench press and rows and only 60 lbs on OHP. My form is good on all of my lifts and I regularly record myself to make sure of that. According to the Strength Standards website, I've hit "intermediate" on all of my lifts - I definitely don't consider myself an intermediate lifter after only 12 weeks of serious lifting, but I do feel like I'm ready to move on.
My question is this: What risk am I taking by moving on "too early" from 5x5? I mean, what's the worst that could happen? I didn't find NROL4W, SS, or Strong Curves all that appealing, so I don't really want to move on to a different beginner program like that. I'm not looking for suggestions on different programs - I mean, there are people that never do a beginner program and they still do fine - I'm just trying to figure out what negative effects I should expect from quitting 5x5 for something else.
ETA: I completely forgot to put my goals here, and I know someone will ask. I'm working on dropping the last 5ish lbs, but that'll be taken care of thanks to eating at a slight deficit and I'm not too worried about the scale at this point. I don't aspire to be a bodybuilder or anything - I just want to gain some strength and look good naked.
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The only "risk" would be not progressing as fast as you might otherwise have but that is always the case, and for a recreational lifter it doesn't really matter. Move on, find something you enjoy and continue making progress.0
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I don't think there is any "risk" to moving on. The only downside is that you may be leaving behind some quick deadlift and squat gains. It isn't that you won't gain these on a 5/3/1, you will just do it at a slower pace than had you continued on 5x5.
If you are bored you should change things so you continue. If you are focused on building strength quickly, keep the 5x5.
Just my opinion but you might be leaving quite a bit behind on the two main lifts because you haven't even stalled let alone dropped to a 3x5 on them.
It doesn't really matter as long as you keep lifting.0 -
Just because mostly everyone on this forum has jumped on the "5x5 bandwagon" does not mean it's the only program out there that you can gain strength/size from. There's a myriad of good programs out there - PHAT, AllPro, PPL, - just a few off the top of my head. The main thing with any lifting program is progression i.e. you're adding weight to the bar. That is not something that is exclusive to 5x5. Also, you need to be religious about not only adding weight to the barbell but keeping a journal so you know what you're lifting and how you're progressing.
FWIW - I would find Starting Strength, Stronglifts, etc. incredibly boring too so that's why I've never done any of them.0 -
I agree with the above. You will be increasing the weight less often on your new program than with 5x5 but that's the only downside I see. In my opinion, it's more important to enjoy your lifts. The accessory lifts should help you break through your upper body lifts as well. I added accessory lifts and went from 5x5 to 3x5 to keep it interesting and when that no longer keeps me interested I'll switch to a new program.0
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Just because mostly everyone on this forum has jumped on the "5x5 bandwagon" does not mean it's the only program out there that you can gain strength/size from. There's a myriad of good programs out there - PHAT, AllPro, PPL, - just a few off the top of my head. The main thing with any lifting program is progression i.e. you're adding weight to the bar. That is not something that is exclusive to 5x5. Also, you need to be religious about not only adding weight to the barbell but keeping a journal so you know what you're lifting and how you're progressing.
FWIW - I would find Starting Strength, Stronglifts, etc. incredibly boring too so that's why I've never done any of them.
It is worth adding to the above that some routines (an example you mention is All Pro's [which is a good routine] use dual-factor progression. By this I mean the protocol includes both weight and rep increases - the latter essentially acting as a proxy weight increase).
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I would say the only risk is slower progress as 5/3/1 is only really 5-10 lbs/month progression, depending on the lift. That said, I love 5/3/1 on the 4 day rotation like you are suggesting.0
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^^^this! If you're bored, it's time to switch to something you're excited about doing. I think your plan sounds excellent!Just because mostly everyone on this forum has jumped on the "5x5 bandwagon" does not mean it's the only program out there that you can gain strength/size from. There's a myriad of good programs out there - PHAT, AllPro, PPL, - just a few off the top of my head. The main thing with any lifting program is progression i.e. you're adding weight to the bar. That is not something that is exclusive to 5x5. Also, you need to be religious about not only adding weight to the barbell but keeping a journal so you know what you're lifting and how you're progressing.
FWIW - I would find Starting Strength, Stronglifts, etc. incredibly boring too so that's why I've never done any of them.0 -
There's a few points to be made here.
1. If you're NOT 100% committed or interested in doing the program, then don't do it. Find something you like that fits your goals and can 100% commit yourself to doing; no point in doing something you don't believe in.
2. Little point in arguing between SL5x5, SS, 5/3/1, Cube, etc... they're all fine programs and saying beginner versus experienced beginner, versus intermediate, versus... is largely a bunch of BS. Notice I didn't say completely.
3. Something like 5/3/1 may not have you slapping on weights as quickly as others but it's not completely about the plates you add. Say you start and you can squat 100lbs for 10 reps. Next month you can squat 110lbs for 12 or more reps (this isn't made up, if you follow other people's training logs that do 5/3/1, this is very real). Haven't you gotten stronger? 100 x 10 reps is approximately 125lb 1RM, 110 x 12 reps is approximately 145lbs 1RM. Unfortunately something like SL5x5 appeals to people's ego's better because you're slapping plates on faster. Leadfoot mentioned other prominent methods as well. But regardless of which method you choose, refer back to my first point.0 -
you might remember me from a previous thread.... (bonus points if you read that in Troy McClure's voice). i'm a big fan of 5/3/1. If you decide to to the Boring but big assistance lifts, try switching it up, e.g. squats 5/3/1 and the dead lifts 5x10 and other hamstring exercises on one day, OHP 5/3/1 and then bench 5x10 and other chest lifts.... you get the idea. this way you work out both muscle groups twice a week while still giving them a chance to recover.
i can't post it on the open forum, but PM me, and i'll send you a link to his book, if you have come around to reading a book about lifting.0 -
you might remember me from a previous thread.... (bonus points if you read that in Troy McClure's voice). i'm a big fan of 5/3/1. If you decide to to the Boring but big assistance lifts, try switching it up, e.g. squats 5/3/1 and the dead lifts 5x10 and other hamstring exercises on one day, OHP 5/3/1 and then bench 5x10 and other chest lifts.... you get the idea. this way you work out both muscle groups twice a week while still giving them a chance to recover.
i can't post it on the open forum, but PM me, and i'll send you a link to his book, if you have come around to reading a book about lifting.
I'm actually doing Dave Tate's Periodization Bible. If you want to glance at my blog with my workout schedule posted, you'll see I actually did pretty much exactly what you're suggesting. I'm doing front squats 5x10 on deadlift day, stiff-legged deadlifts 5x10 on squat day, and incline bench press 5x10 on push press day (I'm done with OHP). My assistance exercises on bench press day are push-ups, barbell curls, and bent-over rows, so I don't have two push press/OHP days, but I really wanted those three lifts instead. So, basically, I'm doing different variations of the big moves on opposite days...if that makes any sense.0 -
you might remember me from a previous thread.... (bonus points if you read that in Troy McClure's voice). i'm a big fan of 5/3/1. If you decide to to the Boring but big assistance lifts, try switching it up, e.g. squats 5/3/1 and the dead lifts 5x10 and other hamstring exercises on one day, OHP 5/3/1 and then bench 5x10 and other chest lifts.... you get the idea. this way you work out both muscle groups twice a week while still giving them a chance to recover.
i can't post it on the open forum, but PM me, and i'll send you a link to his book, if you have come around to reading a book about lifting.
I'm actually doing Dave Tate's Periodization Bible. If you want to glance at my blog with my workout schedule posted, you'll see I actually did pretty much exactly what you're suggesting. I'm doing front squats 5x10 on deadlift day, stiff-legged deadlifts 5x10 on squat day, and incline bench press 5x10 on push press day (I'm done with OHP). My assistance exercises on bench press day are push-ups, barbell curls, and bent-over rows, so I don't have two push press/OHP days, but I really wanted those three lifts instead. So, basically, I'm doing different variations of the big moves on opposite days...if that makes any sense.
To Capt_Apollo's point, if you do get 5/3/1 then make sure you get Beyond 5/3/1 as it is a much more complete system and you can easily do Push Press instead of Press or some combination of both. Nothing wrong with anything produced by Dave Tate either. If you like and getting the desired results, then stick with it.0 -
<<<Obviously loves 5/3/1. However, as a noob to lifting it's a big thing to sacrifice the early strength gain period that can really give you a good baseline. Additionally, 5x5 has the volume necessary to really help you get your form down solidly.
Look into Texas Method if you want something that will progress you a little slower than SL but a little faster than 5/3/1.
(eta: second the motion for Beyond 5/3/1 as a more well-reounded approach if you decide to go that way)0 -
5/3/1 after only three months of stronglifts doesn't seem like a good idea to me - if you are bored with stronglifts do the jason blaha 5x5 - its basically strong lifts with more accessories.
I say this but I hated only lifting three days a week haha - I did 5/3/1 for about 13 months and arranged it in a way that it was upper/lower upper/lower and ran that for a while and really liked it0 -
Additionally, 5x5 has the volume necessary to really help you get your form down solidly.
If you believe that and have read Beyond, then you've really missed a lot because there is more than enough adequate volume in 5/3/1 to learn form. Also, 5/3/1 is not a program as much as SL or SS is, but rather more a training philosophy based on principles that Jim feels are important. Huge difference.0 -
Additionally, 5x5 has the volume necessary to really help you get your form down solidly.
If you believe that and have read Beyond, then you've really missed a lot because there is more than enough adequate volume in 5/3/1 to learn form. Also, 5/3/1 is not a program as much as SL or SS is, but rather more a training philosophy based on principles that Jim feels are important. Huge difference.
There *can* be enough volume in 5/3/1, but that's not necessarily guaranteed.
I'm not sure where I said 5/3/1 was a program like SL/SS or was not a training philosophy, but I agree that there's a big difference between those things. I've done both 5x5 and 5/3/1, so I'm aware of how much space Wendler leaves for variety and even a degree of auto-periodization.0 -
Additionally, 5x5 has the volume necessary to really help you get your form down solidly.
If you believe that and have read Beyond, then you've really missed a lot because there is more than enough adequate volume in 5/3/1 to learn form. Also, 5/3/1 is not a program as much as SL or SS is, but rather more a training philosophy based on principles that Jim feels are important. Huge difference.
There *can* be enough volume in 5/3/1, but that's not necessarily guaranteed.
I'm not sure where I said 5/3/1 was a program like SL/SS or was not a training philosophy, but I agree that there's a big difference between those things. I've done both 5x5 and 5/3/1, so I'm aware of how much space Wendler leaves for variety and even a degree of auto-periodization.
Not trying to start an argument and I'm not trying to be rude, though I think this may come across that way, but you don't know 5/3/1 and ALL of the concepts as well as you think you do; I would recommend re-reading Beyond. Between warm-up sets, work sets, joker sets, pyramiding, FSL, BBB there is an incredible amount of volume for the main lift. Whether somebody is a new lifter or an advanced lifter it is easily tailored to either.
It doesn't matter which program the OP uses as long as the believe in it and commit to it, but let's not misrepresent things.0 -
Sam, you're probably right, as I had forgotten totally about joker sets till you mentioned them. I have all my practical experience with the original 5/3/1 and read Beyond last summer when I couldn't exercise due to injury. I've never done Beyond myself, and it looks like I forgot a lot out of disuse. Definitely agree that OP can make it whatever she needs it to be.0
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