GMOs Scary or not?

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  • QueenBishOTUniverse
    QueenBishOTUniverse Posts: 14,121 Member
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    I encourage my students to read everything before responding. Sorry, I don't have much patience for people who clearly haven't.

    So, because you say "OMG, I already answered that" when someone still has concerns and feels you haven't, you can act snarky and uppity and say they didn't read what you said because...because you are special? Nope, I can say that because it HAS already been answered and it IS clear that reading wasn't done

    We aren't your students, trust me, that much is obvious and I'm sad for your students, you are not very good with logic or analysis, you are supposed to be as a science teacher. your second attempt at personal insult is duly noted, excellent debate strategy that.

    All you did is express your opinions to people freaking out about GMOs, those are not "answers" as to why it shouldn't be listed. I and others have presented plenty of opinions, along with facts, evidence and very good reasons. Sorry you missed them.

    I have seen no negatives for listing GMO then you weren't paying attention or are intentionally ignoring them info, it should be there and included Why? what possible good does it do other than making you *feel* better .

    If you don't want it there, so what? Its nothing to you really unless you are part of a corp. paying for it, it makes no sense to oppose it. I and others have again explained why the labeling issue is distracting at best and down right fear mongering at worst, if you are so paranoid about GMOs then shell out the money for the products that are already voluntarily labeling themselves nonGMO.

    Others do and people have a right for info. no one's stopping you from doing your own research if you're really that worried about it, the information is perfectly available. Labeling is for information that is directly needed (such as nutritional info) or if something is potentially harmful (such as allergens) there is zero zip zilch for evidence that GMO food products meet either of those requirements, therefor it is unnecessary and distracting from real issues to throw temper tantrums over completely inconsequential and unnecessary labels.
  • Meerataila
    Meerataila Posts: 1,885 Member
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    We should put it to a national vote. Should GMO products be labeled, or should they not?

    If we lived in democracies, this would happen and all would be well.
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
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    We should put it to a national vote. Should GMO products be labeled, or should they not?

    If we lived in democracies, this would happen and all would be well.

    Constitutional republic here. Is there a nation that operates as a pure democracy?
  • snikkins
    snikkins Posts: 1,282 Member
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    We should put it to a national vote. Should GMO products be labeled, or should they not?

    If we lived in democracies, this would happen and all would be well.

    Constitutional republic here. Is there a nation that operates as a pure democracy?

    Yes! We've trailed into what I do! Score.

    In the US, and most everywhere else on the national level, we elect people to make decisions for us. The US a representative democracy. So, basically, a national vote on anything isn't possible. Now, if you want to get into state politics, many states do direct democracy, such as California, and the threshold to get measures on a ballot are pretty low.

    Just because we don't hold national votes on something doesn't mean we aren't a democracy. It just means that we decided that having a large, sprawling country vote on absolutely everything was a bad idea, which it is.
  • audrast
    audrast Posts: 74 Member
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    I don't trust the American public to make any decisions about science because they are informed in bite-sized, factoid, news nugget style. A nation that believes that evolution is a "theory," that vaccinations cause autism and that angels really do exist doesn't deserve to be given the option to ruin companies simply because they see a "GMO" label on the food in the produce section.

    Most people don't know what GMOs are, certainly don't understand or even CARE to understand the science behind it. While I am not arguing for or against the use of GMOs, the technology is certainly interesting and can be used for good. While some people argue that they have a right to be informed, do they really know what they are being informed about?

    "This tomato is labeled GMO!" Well, yes, but the alteration was to remove a gene responsible for the production of a gas that causes the fruit to rot prematurely. They aren't adding genes from dinosaurs to get Tomatosaurus Rexes.
  • Alluminati
    Alluminati Posts: 6,208 Member
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    I don't trust the American public to make any decisions about science because they are informed in bite-sized, factoid, news nugget style. A nation that believes that evolution is a "theory," that vaccinations cause autism and that angels really do exist doesn't deserve to be given the option to ruin companies simply because they see a "GMO" label on the food in the produce section.

    Most people don't know what GMOs are, certainly don't understand or even CARE to understand the science behind it. While I am not arguing for or against the use of GMOs, the technology is certainly interesting and can be used for good. While some people argue that they have a right to be informed, do they really know what they are being informed about?

    "This tomato is labeled GMO!" Well, yes, but the alteration was to remove a gene responsible for the production of a gas that causes the fruit to rot prematurely. They aren't adding genes from dinosaurs to get Tomatosaurus Rexes.

    This^^^^
    tumblr_mftp2txtko1s12w9vo1_400.gif?w=490
  • FunkyTobias
    FunkyTobias Posts: 1,776 Member
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    There are already independent agencies that independently verify non-GMO products.

    http://www.nongmoproject.org/find-non-gmo/search-participating-products/

    If it's that important to you, then put your money where your mouth is and only buy products from them. But don't expect me to pay for your irrational fears.
  • saracantthink
    saracantthink Posts: 49 Member
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    I think they are scary because in my Sociology textbook they showed a poor rat that had been fed nothing but GMOs. He was nothing but tumors all over his body. I think people should be able to make their own decisions on these things, and that's why companies should have to say if they use GMOs and other unnatural processes.
  • audrast
    audrast Posts: 74 Member
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    A sociology textbook picture of a rat fed GMOs ... and you think the GMOs caused the tumors rather than ingestion of the Monsanto chemical pesticide used on those Round-up Ready crops? The "article" in question actually states that rats in one of the groups not fed the treated corn but given Roundup in their water had tumors too. It's the chemical pesticide, not the corn.
  • paperpudding
    paperpudding Posts: 9,014 Member
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    Was it one of this Sprawly rats - someone please correct me on exact name - that spontaneously produce tumours anyway?

    If so, that really doesn't prove anything - unless many rats were tested and those fed solely GM foods had significantly increased rates of tumours.
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
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    Was it one of this Sprawly rats - someone please correct me on exact name - that spontaneously produce tumours anyway?

    If so, that really doesn't prove anything - unless many rats were tested and those fed solely GM foods had significantly increased rates of tumours.

    Sprague-Dawley is the rat breed you are thinking of. I'm not sure what study she was referring to in her sociology textbook so I cannot comment but I am skeptical that there is a GM approved food that is known to cause tumors.
  • Meerataila
    Meerataila Posts: 1,885 Member
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    We should put it to a national vote. Should GMO products be labeled, or should they not?

    If we lived in democracies, this would happen and all would be well.

    Constitutional republic here. Is there a nation that operates as a pure democracy?

    Not yet. Hopefully soon. A small group who thinks they're smarter than the rest of us shouldn't be making our decisions for us.
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
    Options
    We should put it to a national vote. Should GMO products be labeled, or should they not?

    If we lived in democracies, this would happen and all would be well.

    Constitutional republic here. Is there a nation that operates as a pure democracy?

    Not yet. Hopefully soon. A small group who thinks they're smarter than the rest of us shouldn't be making our decisions for us.

    By small group of people making decisions for us do you mean the people we elected to make decisions for us?
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
    Options
    We should put it to a national vote. Should GMO products be labeled, or should they not?

    If we lived in democracies, this would happen and all would be well.

    Constitutional republic here. Is there a nation that operates as a pure democracy?

    Not yet. Hopefully soon. A small group who thinks they're smarter than the rest of us shouldn't be making our decisions for us.

    By small group of people making decisions for us do you mean the people we elected to make decisions for us in our constitutional republic?

    A pure democracy on a national scale wold be untenable: erratic and ineffective. That is why they don't exist.

    As for science science isn't a democracy for different reasons, there are things that are true and there are things that are false and voting on which is which has no bearing on the reality.
  • Meerataila
    Meerataila Posts: 1,885 Member
    Options
    We should put it to a national vote. Should GMO products be labeled, or should they not?

    If we lived in democracies, this would happen and all would be well.

    Constitutional republic here. Is there a nation that operates as a pure democracy?

    Not yet. Hopefully soon. A small group who thinks they're smarter than the rest of us shouldn't be making our decisions for us.

    By small group of people making decisions for us do you mean the people we elected to make decisions for us?

    Yes, although our votes as individuals mean nothing compared to the campaign finance dollars wealthy interests woo them with. Otherwise, it would be a lot closer to a democratic republic than it actually is. But either way, direct democracy is the way to go, and if bright people like you don't like the decisions of the majority, advocate for better education, but don't advocate for creating more ignorance.
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
    Options
    We should put it to a national vote. Should GMO products be labeled, or should they not?

    If we lived in democracies, this would happen and all would be well.

    Constitutional republic here. Is there a nation that operates as a pure democracy?

    Not yet. Hopefully soon. A small group who thinks they're smarter than the rest of us shouldn't be making our decisions for us.

    By small group of people making decisions for us do you mean the people we elected to make decisions for us?

    Yes, although our votes as individuals mean nothing compared to the campaign finance dollars wealthy interests woo them with. Otherwise, it would be a lot closer to a democratic republic than it actually is. But either way, direct democracy is the way to go, and if bright people like you don't like the decisions of the majority, advocate for better education, but don't advocate for creating more ignorance.

    There are things I know and there are things I don't know. I don't know much about global economics so I tend to bow out of discussions about that and tend to not make vocal stances or decisions on policy because I feel that I am to ignorant on the topic. I could choose to inform myself on the subject but there is only so much time in the day and my interests lie elsewhere. Science and GM however I have a good understanding of so yes I feel confident in voicing my opinion there. Sometimes I feel there are many who feel entitled to an opinion in terms of policy decisions whether it is informed or not. Personally I'd rather our policies be determined by only those who are informed about said policy and the factors surrounding it. I do not claim to be "bright" on all subjects and would, for example, not dare to say that my voice deserves to be heard on something like economic policy or decisions regarding engineering of infrastructure for example.

    I do not believe that all opinions have the same merit. The merit of an opinion is weighed by its backing in terms of subject knowledge and time spent in the field. A "true democracy" weighs all opinions equally. That is not a great way of doing things outside of the scale of a small community.

    I'm guessing this is going to brand me as an "elitist" to say something as clearly offensive as the belief that decisions should be made by the most informed and not just whomever decides to show up.
  • TenaciousTAZ
    TenaciousTAZ Posts: 135 Member
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    Picture shows it....sorry its a long link....If small animals want organic over GMO, I think I want the right to know what I'm eating....scroll to see the corn experiment.....I just wish I could have my own farm! :P


    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=Qieo01Kefp_H9M&tbnid=svEX3GtL0KgfzM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2013/12/17/stop-gmos-russian-scientists-urge-10-year-ban-on-genetically-modified-products/&ei=q1rDU4vVMMOLiwKI2YGgDQ&bvm=bv.70810081,d.cGU&psig=AFQjCNE2IehKohneB20L4s0rmO0HIgTELQ&ust=1405398024474175
  • Meerataila
    Meerataila Posts: 1,885 Member
    Options
    We should put it to a national vote. Should GMO products be labeled, or should they not?

    If we lived in democracies, this would happen and all would be well.

    Constitutional republic here. Is there a nation that operates as a pure democracy?

    Not yet. Hopefully soon. A small group who thinks they're smarter than the rest of us shouldn't be making our decisions for us.

    By small group of people making decisions for us do you mean the people we elected to make decisions for us?

    Yes, although our votes as individuals mean nothing compared to the campaign finance dollars wealthy interests woo them with. Otherwise, it would be a lot closer to a democratic republic than it actually is. But either way, direct democracy is the way to go, and if bright people like you don't like the decisions of the majority, advocate for better education, but don't advocate for creating more ignorance.

    There are things I know and there are things I don't know. I don't know much about global economics so I tend to bow out of discussions about that and tend to not make vocal stances or decisions on policy because I feel that I am to ignorant on the topic. I could choose to inform myself on the subject but there is only so much time in the day and my interests lie elsewhere. Science and GM however I have a good understanding of so yes I feel confident in voicing my opinion there. Sometimes I feel there are many who feel entitled to an opinion in terms of policy decisions whether it is informed or not. Personally I'd rather our policies be determined by only those who are informed about said policy and the factors surrounding it. I do not claim to be "bright" on all subjects and would, for example, not dare to say that my voice deserves to be heard on something like economic policy or decisions regarding engineering of infrastructure for example.

    I do not believe that all opinions have the same merit. The merit of an opinion is weighed by its backing in terms of subject knowledge and time spent in the field. A "true democracy" weighs all opinions equally. That is not a great way of doing things outside of the scale of a small community.

    My area of study is politics, and the people who are 'informed' are generally at least as crazy and dumb as the craziest, dumbest regular old citizen you can find, and on top of that in order to reach their position of power these people are often far more ruthless, nasty, deceitful, and in general sociopathic.

    I'll take the many pitfalls of direct democracy over our current system any day, all day. Meanwhile, I'll thank you not to insist that I not know the details of the food I'm putting into my own body. I should at very least have that tiny amount of freedom and choice.
  • Aaron_K123
    Aaron_K123 Posts: 7,122 Member
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    Picture shows it....sorry its a long link....If small animals want organic over GMO, I think I want the right to know what I'm eating....scroll to see the corn experiment.....I just wish I could have my own farm! :P


    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&docid=Qieo01Kefp_H9M&tbnid=svEX3GtL0KgfzM:&ved=0CAUQjRw&url=http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2013/12/17/stop-gmos-russian-scientists-urge-10-year-ban-on-genetically-modified-products/&ei=q1rDU4vVMMOLiwKI2YGgDQ&bvm=bv.70810081,d.cGU&psig=AFQjCNE2IehKohneB20L4s0rmO0HIgTELQ&ust=1405398024474175

    So let me get this straight. A product that has been on the market for many years and billions of people have eaten for a considerable amount of time causes your entire body to be covered in tumors in 90 days. That is what you are telling me.

    By the way that links to a webpage called "The Truth Seeker". Here is the article. It doesn't cite the study so I'd have to track it down to comment. This article doesn't cite the study as a source so much as it cites another news organization citing a news organization citing the study.

    I know what this particular GMO is, its an incorporation of a bacterial gene that produces and enzyme that provides plants an alternate metabolic route to amino acid formation which circumvents the effect of glyophosphate which is the active ingredient in Roundup. Really not sure why such a thing would cause tumors, its a protein that when ingested would be metabolized in the stomach like any other protein.

    http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=57689
  • FeraFilia
    FeraFilia Posts: 4,664 Member
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    "This tomato is labeled GMO!" Well, yes, but the alteration was to remove a gene responsible for the production of a gas that causes the fruit to rot prematurely. They aren't adding genes from dinosaurs to get Tomatosaurus Rexes.

    I would say that ^ this is the only reason to believe they are scary. Possible carnivorous produce is definitely scary.

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