Secretly recorded at work
Replies
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Illegal to tape someone without their knowledge unless someone feels threatened going into it (i.e. a sting operation where the informant could die).
Bring that to HR. Now.
ETA: Check your state for the specific law, but what your coworker is doing is retaliation for you letting them know they rubbed you the wrong way. In the future, I would bring complaints like that to your boss instead of trying to handle it on your own.
Excellent legal advice.
:laugh:
ETA: Dang, a lot of casual lawyers in this thread with pretty specific ideas.
Thank... you?
:flowerforyou:
ETA because I missed the ETA: I'm a law student...?
Is OP in the UK?0 -
Illegal to tape someone without their knowledge unless someone feels threatened going into it (i.e. a sting operation where the informant could die).
Bring that to HR. Now.
ETA: Check your state for the specific law, but what your coworker is doing is retaliation for you letting them know they rubbed you the wrong way. In the future, I would bring complaints like that to your boss instead of trying to handle it on your own.
Excellent legal advice.
:laugh:
ETA: Dang, a lot of casual lawyers in this thread with pretty specific ideas.
Thank... you?
:flowerforyou:
ETA because I missed the ETA: I'm a law student...?
I believe that OP is in the UK . . . .
Her profile says WA, which is indeed a two, or all, party state. To clarify
"Intercepting, recording, or divulging private communication — Consent required — Exceptions.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, it shall be unlawful for any individual, partnership, corporation, association, or the state of Washington, its agencies, and political subdivisions to intercept, or record any:
(a) Private communication transmitted by telephone, telegraph, radio, or other device between two or more individuals between points within or without the state by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record and/or transmit said communication regardless how such device is powered or actuated, without first obtaining the consent of all the participants in the communication;
(b) Private conversation, by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record or transmit such conversation regardless how the device is powered or actuated without first obtaining the consent of all the persons engaged in the conversation."0 -
Washington is a two party consent state for recording "private" conversations. This means that both parties need to consent to the recording if it is considered a private conversation. There are a few questions that need to be answered to see if a conversation meets the definition of private. However, I would put this in writing and provide it to your HR group. Some Companies do have policies regarding the use of electronic recording devices that may also cover this.0
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I reckon he's bull****ting - call his bluff and break into song everytime you ave to speak to him0
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Illegal to tape someone without their knowledge unless someone feels threatened going into it (i.e. a sting operation where the informant could die).
Bring that to HR. Now.
ETA: Check your state for the specific law, but what your coworker is doing is retaliation for you letting them know they rubbed you the wrong way. In the future, I would bring complaints like that to your boss instead of trying to handle it on your own.
Excellent legal advice.
:laugh:
ETA: Dang, a lot of casual lawyers in this thread with pretty specific ideas.
Thank... you?
:flowerforyou:
ETA because I missed the ETA: I'm a law student...?
I believe that OP is in the UK . . . .
Her profile says WA, which is indeed a two, or all, party state. To clarify
"Intercepting, recording, or divulging private communication — Consent required — Exceptions.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, it shall be unlawful for any individual, partnership, corporation, association, or the state of Washington, its agencies, and political subdivisions to intercept, or record any:
(a) Private communication transmitted by telephone, telegraph, radio, or other device between two or more individuals between points within or without the state by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record and/or transmit said communication regardless how such device is powered or actuated, without first obtaining the consent of all the participants in the communication;
(b) Private conversation, by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record or transmit such conversation regardless how the device is powered or actuated without first obtaining the consent of all the persons engaged in the conversation."
There is no Abbey Ward in Washington State and her profile pic is from an Oxford garden party.0 -
report to HR > have him fired>possibly press charges0
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That made me LOL.People displaying psychopathic tendencies are always fun to deal with
Because there are rules for the subjects, and no rules for the rulers.If NSA can do it and so far has gotten away with it, why not he?
Not at all comparable to what she's asking about.
Wow. I really hope you don't carry a gun. Or maybe I do, because you're going to end up in prison with that attitude, and once you're there you can't spread your stupidity.Also if he feels his life is in "danger" his rights kick in to protect himself. One of the rights is to gather evidence.
You have no concept of self-defense law.
Having a conversation at work is not imminent danger of death or great bodily harm (unless she said something to the effect of "I'm going to shoot you now"), so self-defense has nothing to do with it.
That's the standard which has to be met in order for the use of deadly force to be legal. Some states give specific examples of what is legally considered an imminent threat (such as an attempt to break into an occupied house or vehicle).
And people generally do not gather evidence, police do.
(ETA: and gathering evidence is not part of self-defense because that has nothing to do with stopping the imminent threat to your life)
That's the only thing you've said which makes any sense at all.I agree talk to HR as everyone suggested but then HR would like to listen to the tape conversation.
Contact the police first, since he's admitted committing a crime.
They can contact HR & arrange a meeting with officers, HR, and the criminal present, and probably seize his phone as containing evidence of the crime.
Get over it.
NSA comment was a sarcasm incase you didn't get it.
I was suggesting all the possible excuses he'll make to justify his craziness. All he has to say "I felt threatened" and 9 out of 10 times it gets down hill from there.
Not my problem you don't understand sarcasm or take everything literally.
End of my comments. I'm out.0 -
Illegal to tape someone without their knowledge unless someone feels threatened going into it (i.e. a sting operation where the informant could die).
Bring that to HR. Now.
ETA: Check your state for the specific law, but what your coworker is doing is retaliation for you letting them know they rubbed you the wrong way. In the future, I would bring complaints like that to your boss instead of trying to handle it on your own.
Excellent legal advice.
:laugh:
ETA: Dang, a lot of casual lawyers in this thread with pretty specific ideas.
Thank... you?
:flowerforyou:
ETA because I missed the ETA: I'm a law student...?
I believe that OP is in the UK . . . .
Her profile says WA, which is indeed a two, or all, party state. To clarify
"Intercepting, recording, or divulging private communication — Consent required — Exceptions.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, it shall be unlawful for any individual, partnership, corporation, association, or the state of Washington, its agencies, and political subdivisions to intercept, or record any:
(a) Private communication transmitted by telephone, telegraph, radio, or other device between two or more individuals between points within or without the state by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record and/or transmit said communication regardless how such device is powered or actuated, without first obtaining the consent of all the participants in the communication;
(b) Private conversation, by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record or transmit such conversation regardless how the device is powered or actuated without first obtaining the consent of all the persons engaged in the conversation."
There is no Abbey Ward in Washington State and her profile pic is from an Oxford garden party.
I have pictures from parties in Canada but I'm not in Canada?
And there is no Abby Ward anywhere that would have a WA qualifier.0 -
Illegal to tape someone without their knowledge unless someone feels threatened going into it (i.e. a sting operation where the informant could die).
Bring that to HR. Now.
ETA: Check your state for the specific law, but what your coworker is doing is retaliation for you letting them know they rubbed you the wrong way. In the future, I would bring complaints like that to your boss instead of trying to handle it on your own.
Excellent legal advice.
:laugh:
ETA: Dang, a lot of casual lawyers in this thread with pretty specific ideas.
Thank... you?
:flowerforyou:
ETA because I missed the ETA: I'm a law student...?
I believe that OP is in the UK . . . .
Her profile says WA, which is indeed a two, or all, party state. To clarify
"Intercepting, recording, or divulging private communication — Consent required — Exceptions.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, it shall be unlawful for any individual, partnership, corporation, association, or the state of Washington, its agencies, and political subdivisions to intercept, or record any:
(a) Private communication transmitted by telephone, telegraph, radio, or other device between two or more individuals between points within or without the state by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record and/or transmit said communication regardless how such device is powered or actuated, without first obtaining the consent of all the participants in the communication;
(b) Private conversation, by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record or transmit such conversation regardless how the device is powered or actuated without first obtaining the consent of all the persons engaged in the conversation."
There is no Abbey Ward in Washington State and her profile pic is from an Oxford garden party.
I have pictures from parties in Canada but I'm not in Canada?
And there is no Abby Ward anywhere that would have a WA qualifier.
Wales? Warrington?0 -
Wow. I really hope you don't carry a gun. Or maybe I do, because you're going to end up in prison with that attitude, and once you're there you can't spread your stupidity.Also if he feels his life is in "danger" his rights kick in to protect himself. One of the rights is to gather evidence.
You have no concept of self-defense law.
Having a conversation at work is not imminent danger of death or great bodily harm] (unless she said something to the effect of "I'm going to shoot you now"), so self-defense has nothing to do with it.
That's the standard which has to be met in order for the use of deadly force to be legal. Some states give specific examples of what is legally considered an imminent threat (such as an attempt to break into an occupied house or vehicle).
And people generally do not gather evidence, police do.
(ETA: and gathering evidence is not part of self-defense because that has nothing to do with stopping the imminent threat to your life)
One does not specifically have to say "I'm going to shoot you" in order to create a hostile work environment therefore prompting someone to take action which in this case is the gathering of evidence. As with any workplace situation be it harassment or a hostile work environment it helps the case of the person on the receiving end of said behavior to gather evidence, note dates, times, conversations etc. etc. so that they can have a case against the person who is making them feel uncomfortable.
ETA: Now mind you none of us have any idea WHAT the conversation actually was.0 -
Regardless of whether it's legal or not, recording your conversations at work is creating a hostile work environment. Talk to HR.
What's hostile about it?
That's just another catch phrase that people want to use as some sort of a veiled threat, SMH.
Please do a little research prior to making opinions:
The OP stated that he confronted her two weeks after the conversation in an aggressive manner: It is up to her on weither or not it was hostile not you.
In the U.S.A. this can be:
"Civil Remedies
Under a federal law passed in 1968 and adopted by most states, the courts allow civil remedies for an invasion of privacy; therefore, illegally recording a workplace conversation creates a cause of action for a lawsuit, and a demand for judgment and damages. Any breach of state or federal law also gives an employer grounds for termination of the guilty party."
I believe the OP is from Wales which is why she needs to contact her HR and they can give her a course of action.0 -
I saw WA, and am familiar with the law in Washington state. Didn't google her city, because sometimes people put "Out in the Boonies" as their city or similar other things. Advised off of stored knowledge.
If she's in the UK, she's on her own and should check her local laws, but either way she needs to take it to management or HR.0 -
Illegal and VERY creepy.0
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Illegal to tape someone without their knowledge unless someone feels threatened going into it (i.e. a sting operation where the informant could die).
Bring that to HR. Now.
ETA: Check your state for the specific law, but what your coworker is doing is retaliation for you letting them know they rubbed you the wrong way. In the future, I would bring complaints like that to your boss instead of trying to handle it on your own.
Excellent legal advice.
:laugh:
ETA: Dang, a lot of casual lawyers in this thread with pretty specific ideas.
Thank... you?
:flowerforyou:
ETA because I missed the ETA: I'm a law student...?
I believe that OP is in the UK . . . .
Her profile says WA, which is indeed a two, or all, party state. To clarify
"Intercepting, recording, or divulging private communication — Consent required — Exceptions.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, it shall be unlawful for any individual, partnership, corporation, association, or the state of Washington, its agencies, and political subdivisions to intercept, or record any:
(a) Private communication transmitted by telephone, telegraph, radio, or other device between two or more individuals between points within or without the state by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record and/or transmit said communication regardless how such device is powered or actuated, without first obtaining the consent of all the participants in the communication;
(b) Private conversation, by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record or transmit such conversation regardless how the device is powered or actuated without first obtaining the consent of all the persons engaged in the conversation."
There is no Abbey Ward in Washington State and her profile pic is from an Oxford garden party.
I have pictures from parties in Canada but I'm not in Canada?
And there is no Abby Ward anywhere that would have a WA qualifier.
Wales? Warrington?
Are you asking if there is an Abbey ward in those places? Or rather assuming that I don't know that such places exist and wouldn't google them to check?
That said it's possible the city is made up. My location isn't real, after all.0 -
Actually, it is not illegal for him to record your conversations without your knowledge. However, it would not be admissable in a court of law. He can, however, use it to support a complaint to HR. I highly recommend that you report this situation to HR. Without knowing the specifics, I would think that approaching HR before him will allow you the opportunity to present your case without his interpretted bias. Depending on his skills, he could potentially piece together a recording to make you look worse than you are. If you explain how this started, what he said to you, and his reaction and response, you are more likely to build a harassment case against him before he can put one together against you.
But again, there isn't enough information here to know what determinations your HR department will make about the situation.
ETA... in case anyone needs my qualifications, I presently hold a BA in HR management and will complete an MBA in HR management by the end of the year. However, I'll admit to having no working experience in the field.0 -
Sounds more like you need to be talking to HR.
Definitely this.0 -
In to see where this goes.0
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Also, it is very much illegal where I am, and most countries.
Government agencies get away with it because of national security issues which trump local and state laws.
However, for a public person, it depends, if you genuinely feel your right have been violated, then report the incident to the police and take matters further, just skip HR and get his lunatic psychopathic idiotic self to jail for being a douche.
Sure, you can record conversations etc, however by law unless a criminal activity is suspected or investigation under progress, the law usually states as such you need to inform the person you are recording that you are doing so, otherwise it is very much illegal and is punishable under law.
Security reasons? Sure, but there is a limit.
And to the person saying he felt his life in danger? Are you crazy? He is harassing this poor girl and taking illegal conversation recordings at work without consent from the person involved.
Anyway, here is a listing of local laws etc.
http://www.mrcustodycoach.com/blog/resources/recording-telephone-calls-laws-state-by-state-directory0 -
I'm enjoying the legal analysis. But seriously, speak to HR, though you may want to consult with an attorney conversant with your state's law before doing so.0
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I am from the UK, and although I work in an office environment I am doing a PhD and do not have a formal boss or HR department.
Someone in the office found out and complained as they too were a bit unhappy about it. The postgraduate administrator for my department is aware that he had recorded me once but does not now that it has been for months. He is being moved to a different office, which is something I guess. But all the same I a ma bit uncomfortable with the idea that this guy has several recordings of our conversations and can't for the life of me think what could be on there.
I am quite sure that nothing would have been bad, but this guy likes to start conversations about religion and I can't help but think he might have goaded me into saying something that can be twisted out of context.0 -
Hello, just to share with you because this kind of thing happens where I live....I worked for two management companies in CA and they would do this on a routine basis when they were terminating people. They feared backlash or threats of lawsuit. One of those company's had a mole working with the coworkers that were being terminated. He was setting the groundwork with his own recordings in the hope that he would be advanced in the workplace, a real dirt bag. It was a time of downsizing so he was going to do what it took to keep his job. I believe it is an all party consent state here in CA but not knowledgeable to help that way.
With your situation, I would definitely document the event(s) with HR but most importantly, keep records and journals from day one of the event for yourself. A chronological time line with dates, events and occurrences. HR has a due diligence to record your complaints but I have seen CFO's manipulate these process. After leaving the one company for this kind of thing and then seeing the next company acting the same way, I got out of the business entirely and worked for myself. I have since never underestimated the slipperiness of a human being. So, make sure you protect yourself in this thing. Good luck.0 -
A business, unless it's government, is a private place, not public. Take your concerns to the owners, management, HR, or whoever handles grievances. The recording may well be illegal.
If it's a government agency, the recording could be an even more grievous act. Recording conversations without permission is criminal in my state, anyway. File your complaint.0 -
I love how everyone assumes the OP is completely innocent and is just being targeted by this psychotic person who does things for no good reason at all.0
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Illegal to tape someone without their knowledge unless someone feels threatened going into it (i.e. a sting operation where the informant could die).
Bring that to HR. Now.
ETA: Check your state for the specific law, but what your coworker is doing is retaliation for you letting them know they rubbed you the wrong way. In the future, I would bring complaints like that to your boss instead of trying to handle it on your own.
Excellent legal advice.
:laugh:
ETA: Dang, a lot of casual lawyers in this thread with pretty specific ideas.
Thank... you?
:flowerforyou:
ETA because I missed the ETA: I'm a law student...?
I believe that OP is in the UK . . . .
Her profile says WA, which is indeed a two, or all, party state. To clarify
"Intercepting, recording, or divulging private communication — Consent required — Exceptions.
(1) Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, it shall be unlawful for any individual, partnership, corporation, association, or the state of Washington, its agencies, and political subdivisions to intercept, or record any:
(a) Private communication transmitted by telephone, telegraph, radio, or other device between two or more individuals between points within or without the state by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record and/or transmit said communication regardless how such device is powered or actuated, without first obtaining the consent of all the participants in the communication;
(b) Private conversation, by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record or transmit such conversation regardless how the device is powered or actuated without first obtaining the consent of all the persons engaged in the conversation."
There is no Abbey Ward in Washington State and her profile pic is from an Oxford garden party.
I have pictures from parties in Canada but I'm not in Canada?
And there is no Abby Ward anywhere that would have a WA qualifier.
Wales? Warrington?
Are you asking if there is an Abbey ward in those places? Or rather assuming that I don't know that such places exist and wouldn't google them to check?
That said it's possible the city is made up. My location isn't real, after all.
http://www.safer-neighbourhoods.co.uk/your-neighbourhood/nuneaton-and-bedworth-district/nuneaton-central/wards/AbbeyWard
Warwick ?0 -
Donald Sterling 2.0? ... I wonder if we heard the content of the tapes if the reaction would be the same.0
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He's recorded you to try and intimidate you and cover his own *kitten* if you did actually complain about him. He's a bully, yeah I said it, bully! I've worked with someone like this, he had the union so far up his *kitten* he had management running round in circles and he actually got paid off to leave quietly. He recorded people as well, more than one person. People on lunch breaks chatting to friends and everything. It's weird and says a lot about them. Just avoid him, he's not worth the effort.0
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WA, if your profile is accurate, is a two (or all) party consent state. Which means someone can only record if they let everyone know they're being recorded and they consent. So you could file criminal charges against him, IF he really recorded your conversations....he may just have been saying that and really didn't do it. If you aren't in the habit of saying things that could get you fired, then I'd call his bluff. Maybe have someone with you that could be a witness and get him to repeat that he recorded you, THEN let him know it's illegal and you could file charges.
http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/washington/washington-recording-law
^^This. You list yourself as being in WA, and as such read up on Washington Law, from what I gather In the state of Washington, the person recording the conversation must announce to the other people involved in the conversation that it is being recorded, and record the announcement that they are in fact recording. That being said.... you'd have to really hate the guy to go to all the trouble and expense of suing him over it. You'd be better off to simply work out your differences and avoid talking to the guy in the future.
** For anyone that cares, here in Canada tho' as long as one party agrees (ie. oneself) a conversation can be recorded. You can legally record any conversation that you are part of without consent of the other person, you cannot legally record a conversation between two other people as a third party unless you have their consent.
Source: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.73.030
**** EDITED TO NOTE: I just read through the pages and discovered that OP has clarified is from UK (to be fair profile of WA was misleading. lol. ) I've now wasted several minutes researching a law that isn't even applicable. I'm not searching for it in UK. Do your own google. I'm leaving this post up tho'......... maybe someone in WA - United States will find it informative, I really don't want it to go to waste. Haha.0 -
WA, if your profile is accurate, is a two (or all) party consent state. Which means someone can only record if they let everyone know they're being recorded and they consent. So you could file criminal charges against him, IF he really recorded your conversations....he may just have been saying that and really didn't do it. If you aren't in the habit of saying things that could get you fired, then I'd call his bluff. Maybe have someone with you that could be a witness and get him to repeat that he recorded you, THEN let him know it's illegal and you could file charges.
http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/washington/washington-recording-law
^^This. You list yourself as being in WA, and as such read up on Washington Law, from what I gather In the state of Washington, the person recording the conversation must announce to the other people involved in the conversation that it is being recorded, and record the announcement that they are in fact recording. That being said.... you'd have to really hate the guy to go to all the trouble and expense of suing him over it. You'd be better off to simply work out your differences and avoid talking to the guy in the future.
** For anyone that cares, here in Canada tho' as long as one party agrees (ie. oneself) a conversation can be recorded. You can legally record any conversation that you are part of without consent of the other person, you cannot legally record a conversation between two other people as a third party unless you have their consent.
Source: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.73.030
(a) Private communication transmitted by telephone, telegraph, radio, or other device between two or more individuals between points within or without the state by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record and/or transmit said communication regardless how such device is powered or actuated, without first obtaining the consent of all the participants in the communication;
(b) Private conversation, by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record or transmit such conversation regardless how the device is powered or actuated without first obtaining the consent of all the persons engaged in the conversation.
(2) Notwithstanding subsection (1) of this section, wire communications or conversations (a) of an emergency nature, such as the reporting of a fire, medical emergency, crime, or disaster, or (b) which convey threats of extortion, blackmail, bodily harm, or other unlawful requests or demands, or (c) which occur anonymously or repeatedly or at an extremely inconvenient hour, or (d) which relate to communications by a hostage holder or barricaded person as defined in RCW 70.85.100, whether or not conversation ensues, may be recorded with the consent of one party to the conversation.
(3) Where consent by all parties is needed pursuant to this chapter, consent shall be considered obtained whenever one party has announced to all other parties engaged in the communication or conversation, in any reasonably effective manner, that such communication or conversation is about to be recorded or transmitted: PROVIDED, That if the conversation is to be recorded that said announcement shall also be recorded.
OP is in UK. A quick google search shows UK shares similar laws to Canada - it is legal to record your own conversations.
ETA - I was typing while you were editing.0 -
WA, if your profile is accurate, is a two (or all) party consent state. Which means someone can only record if they let everyone know they're being recorded and they consent. So you could file criminal charges against him, IF he really recorded your conversations....he may just have been saying that and really didn't do it. If you aren't in the habit of saying things that could get you fired, then I'd call his bluff. Maybe have someone with you that could be a witness and get him to repeat that he recorded you, THEN let him know it's illegal and you could file charges.
http://www.dmlp.org/legal-guide/washington/washington-recording-law
^^This. You list yourself as being in WA, and as such read up on Washington Law, from what I gather In the state of Washington, the person recording the conversation must announce to the other people involved in the conversation that it is being recorded, and record the announcement that they are in fact recording. That being said.... you'd have to really hate the guy to go to all the trouble and expense of suing him over it. You'd be better off to simply work out your differences and avoid talking to the guy in the future.
** For anyone that cares, here in Canada tho' as long as one party agrees (ie. oneself) a conversation can be recorded. You can legally record any conversation that you are part of without consent of the other person, you cannot legally record a conversation between two other people as a third party unless you have their consent.
Source: http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.73.030
(a) Private communication transmitted by telephone, telegraph, radio, or other device between two or more individuals between points within or without the state by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record and/or transmit said communication regardless how such device is powered or actuated, without first obtaining the consent of all the participants in the communication;
(b) Private conversation, by any device electronic or otherwise designed to record or transmit such conversation regardless how the device is powered or actuated without first obtaining the consent of all the persons engaged in the conversation.
(2) Notwithstanding subsection (1) of this section, wire communications or conversations (a) of an emergency nature, such as the reporting of a fire, medical emergency, crime, or disaster, or (b) which convey threats of extortion, blackmail, bodily harm, or other unlawful requests or demands, or (c) which occur anonymously or repeatedly or at an extremely inconvenient hour, or (d) which relate to communications by a hostage holder or barricaded person as defined in RCW 70.85.100, whether or not conversation ensues, may be recorded with the consent of one party to the conversation.
(3) Where consent by all parties is needed pursuant to this chapter, consent shall be considered obtained whenever one party has announced to all other parties engaged in the communication or conversation, in any reasonably effective manner, that such communication or conversation is about to be recorded or transmitted: PROVIDED, That if the conversation is to be recorded that said announcement shall also be recorded.
OP is in UK. A quick google search shows UK shares similar laws to Canada - it is legal to record your own conversations.
ETA - I was typing while you were editing.
LOL
ETA - you're awesome.0 -
Somewhat relevant to the discussion at hand, do similar laws apply to saving mfp profile photos? I'm asking for a friend.0
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