middle aged squatting - knee pain

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madslacker
madslacker Posts: 39
in Fitness and Exercise
Hello!

Just wanted to get some feedback on this. I'm 36 years old and I weight in at about 269lbs. Working with an upper 30% for body fat, so I have a long ways to go.

I'm not brand new to lifting - I've had a few attempts. I've never graduated to the advanced camp - but I have a fair idea of what I'm doing when it comes to form (trainer, research, trial and error, etc.).

I suffer from knee pain (during, and the days after squatting) and I wondered if anyone had suggestions.

To start with I do a full body routine 2x per week. I was initially doing 3x but found this to be too hard on me physically. I do three exercises that focus on legs:

- Squat - 2 warmup sets (25% and 50% of my work weight), and 2 works sets (currently @ 150lbs / sets of 10)
- Stiff Legged Dead Left - 2 warmup sets (as described above) as 2 work sets (currently @ 120lbs / sets of 10)
- Calf Raise - 3 sets o 25, bodyweight only

I'll focus on the squats I'm performing because I can feel the pain on occasion during the exercise (usually the warmup sets). I know that there are some things that I need to avoid and I think I'm doing them pretty well.

1. My knees aren't going over my toe through the movement
2. My knees aren't pointing in

I usually position my feet slightly wider that shoulder width. As I squat, I try to go parallel or a bit lower. As I've gotten more comfortable squatting I push back with my hips and rump keeping the weight on my heals - as opposed bending at the knees or going over the toes. Obviously, to squat my knees will bend but the movement is initiated and followed through by pushing out with my hips/butt. By using this form I've mostly eliminated / minimized the knee pain during the exercise (I feel as though my form is good - but that's really been a process of evolution).

That being said - my knees tend to be sore/stiff the day or two after lifting. Sometimes this pain persists some after. If I have my knees bent I notice a stiffness/pain when I straighten them out. I'll also experience this pain (very center of the knee) when walking up a few flights of stairs.

Any suggestions/solutions?

Replies

  • 365andstillalive
    365andstillalive Posts: 663 Member
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    If you have a trainer available to you, I would pose the question to them, but...
    From my own experience and the experiences of a few of my friends who are working their way into lifting, you can get the type of pain you're describing when your knee cap isn't tracking right through the motion, this often has a lot to do with uneven muscle building in your legs/ankles or even just unsteady balance. It might be worth trying to tape your knee for a few days so that your knee will track how it naturally should, which should relieve the pain if that is the problem.
    But if it persists, I'd really recommend you stop squatting until you can see a doctor; as someone who's destroyed their knees and had multiple surgeries, it's not worth it to push through without being medically cleared.
  • Akimajuktuq
    Akimajuktuq Posts: 3,037 Member
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    I had knee problems all of my life. I couldn't even do squats when I was a child (I was not over-weight then). I was very active but always plagued by pain. I am almost 42 and now have zero knee pain and can squat as much as I want. It's the FOOD. Also, the foods I chose and eliminated helped me to lose weight which also has a positive effect on knee pain, but the actual foods were the biggest factor. Research dietary treatments for joint pain.
  • SunofaBeach14
    SunofaBeach14 Posts: 4,899 Member
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    Go to a doc and get your knees looked at first. If there's no damage then it may just be lack of muscle balance. Make sure to work your hamstrings as much as your quads. I do straight legged deads and leg curls for this. Also, try some knee sleeves.
  • Shawshankcan
    Shawshankcan Posts: 900 Member
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    1. Toes over knees is an outdate myth.
    2. I have knee issues from time to time, and I find voodoo floss helps. (Can get it on roguefitess, or google for a DIY version.) It hurts while "flossing." (The term given for using the product.) But the relief is almost instantaneous. Do it a few times a day, do it for a warm up, do it before you go to bed. It is what helps me.
  • CallMeCupcakeDammit
    CallMeCupcakeDammit Posts: 9,377 Member
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    After you get the ok from the doctor, you might want to give goblet squats a try. I can barely get to parallel without getting a sharp pain in my knees, but for some reason I can get below parallel with goblet squats and there's no pain. After reading this, I figured out why they were so easy. http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/grab-sit-repeat-the-simple-power-of-the-goblet-squat.html
  • sjaplo
    sjaplo Posts: 974 Member
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    36 is not middle aged. Just sayin'
  • parkscs
    parkscs Posts: 1,639 Member
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    As others have said, get an ortho to do some xrays and confirm there isn't a problem. If everything checks out, just try and avoid exercises that put extra stress on the knees. Unless you compete, I wouldn't go below parallel on the squat as going lower puts additional strain on the knees, and make sure you're stretching and warming up before starting the squats. It may be a muscle imbalance or it may simply be a cartilage tear that may heal over time..
  • OhCora
    OhCora Posts: 72 Member
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    36 is not middle aged. Just sayin'

    the older we get, the older "middle aged" is. :laugh:

    I have knee pain too, never actually had an injury, but when I crouch down, my knees crack loudly. when I walk up stairs, they creak and grind. I have recently been trying to run, and it is hell. trying Knee Wrap supports, I hope it helps. also there are exercises that strengthen the muscles around the knee that help stabilize it, I don.t know what they are called. sitting in a machine, knees bent, with the pad in front of your ankles, and straightening your legs lifting the bar, that one is one that was suggested to me. It hurts too. I guess starting with a lower weight and working up will be the way to go.
  • HappyGramps
    HappyGramps Posts: 10 Member
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    You're about half my age .... is that how you get 36 to be "middle aged"? :laugh:

    Your description of your squats said nothing about stretching AFTER your weight/squat sessions. You should be stretching your calves and hamstrings (3 sets of 60 seconds) to ensure you're not "seizing up" after your session. According to my fitness trainer/certified athletic therapist, knee pain after the fact is almost always a result of tight calf and hamstring muscles.
  • clarion_r
    clarion_r Posts: 53 Member
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    When I started with my PT he noticed I tend to roll my left knee in when I do anything. So I went to a physio who gave me a set of exercises to strengthen the muscles around the knee and my glutes. Stronger knee/glutes, plus better form = much better knees!

    Might be worth even one session with someone to check your form - I'm sure you know what you're doing, but I know I never noticed the knee thing until my PT mentioned it!
  • itsbasschick
    itsbasschick Posts: 1,584 Member
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    when i was your age, i noticed that squatting hurt my knees but working the leg press didn't so i worked my quads on the leg press and lived happily ever after... but if nothing is wrong, strengthening the muscles around the area as others have suggested is a good idea.
  • 34blast
    34blast Posts: 166 Member
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    You didn't mention your foot / toe angle or depth.

    You might try this to see if it helps. If not maybe a visit to the doctor or at least some ibuprofen
    Start empty bar, if possible use low bar position
    Toes pointing out 30 degrees
    Shove your knees out, so that the alignment is with your toes on the way down and up
    Go to just below parallel
    Think about hips up
    After warming up put the amount of weight on you can do your 10 rep routine with perfect form.

    I used to get some minor knee pain with high bar squat and toes pointed straight.

    Google youtube rippetoe teaches squat
  • benchsquad65
    benchsquad65 Posts: 147 Member
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    Hello!

    Just wanted to get some feedback on this. I'm 36 years old and I weight in at about 269lbs. Working with an upper 30% for body fat, so I have a long ways to go.

    I'm not brand new to lifting - I've had a few attempts. I've never graduated to the advanced camp - but I have a fair idea of what I'm doing when it comes to form (trainer, research, trial and error, etc.).

    I suffer from knee pain (during, and the days after squatting) and I wondered if anyone had suggestions.

    To start with I do a full body routine 2x per week. I was initially doing 3x but found this to be too hard on me physically. I do three exercises that focus on legs:

    - Squat - 2 warmup sets (25% and 50% of my work weight), and 2 works sets (currently @ 150lbs / sets of 10)
    - Stiff Legged Dead Left - 2 warmup sets (as described above) as 2 work sets (currently @ 120lbs / sets of 10)
    - Calf Raise - 3 sets o 25, bodyweight only

    I'll focus on the squats I'm performing because I can feel the pain on occasion during the exercise (usually the warmup sets). I know that there are some things that I need to avoid and I think I'm doing them pretty well.

    1. My knees aren't going over my toe through the movement
    2. My knees aren't pointing in

    I usually position my feet slightly wider that shoulder width. As I squat, I try to go parallel or a bit lower. As I've gotten more comfortable squatting I push back with my hips and rump keeping the weight on my heals - as opposed bending at the knees or going over the toes. Obviously, to squat my knees will bend but the movement is initiated and followed through by pushing out with my hips/butt. By using this form I've mostly eliminated / minimized the knee pain during the exercise (I feel as though my form is good - but that's really been a process of evolution).

    That being said - my knees tend to be sore/stiff the day or two after lifting. Sometimes this pain persists some after. If I have my knees bent I notice a stiffness/pain when I straighten them out. I'll also experience this pain (very center of the knee) when walking up a few flights of stairs.

    Any suggestions/solutions?

    Don't listen to all these people like "you need to squat" or "you a wimp if you don't squat."

    DO LEGPRESS.

    One reason why overweight people struggle with squatting is because they don't have the core strength developed yet to properly perform the movement. You might struggle with 135 on squat or something but legpress 350 for reps no problem. I'd say just do legpress until you lose more weight and develop more. Also, WRAP YOUR KNEES.
  • madslacker
    madslacker Posts: 39
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    36 is not middle aged. Just sayin'

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_life_expectancy

    Life expectancy is 77/78 in the USA. I suppose I could wait until I turned 38.5/39 to officially declare myself in the middle of my life :)

    That being said - thank you for the replies.

    I think that I'm dealing with an injury at this point. I was stretching last night and found that I could bend my right leg/knee with no pain, but bending my left leg/knee to the same angle produced a pain in my kneecap and tight sensation.

    I'm not sure if the injury was caused by squatting from the knee as opposed to the butt/hips (as said, finding the right form has been a process), or from walking. I have plantar fasciitis, and I believe this also caused some issues with my ankle (circular rotations of my foot certainly cause popping and cracking in my ankle). I'm sure there's a relationship in all of this :)

    I went to my general MD and complained of multi-joint pain (knees, ankles, shoulders). Unfortunately I seem to be prone to joint/ligament injury and and pain. I also have a decent amount of arthritis in my family so I could just be dealing with the beginning stages of this.

    I know for a fact that my Vitamin D levels were quite low (was tested and found to be quite low) and have recently started taking about 8000 ui daily, along with a quality multi and Omega 3/6/9. I'll consider an ibuprofen regimen - but I want to be careful to treat the root cause rather than symptom.

    For now I'll take a few weeks off of Leg Exercises completely, and stick with very low impact cardio (elliptical). I enjoy walking but my feet smacking the pavement seems to trigger a decent amount of pain for me the next day. I'm hoping that reducing my fat and associated weight will help greatly.

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