Started counting calories and now my running sucks

Ahrena
Ahrena Posts: 44 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
So I'm coming to the end of a half marathon training programme (I'm doing a tough mudder on the 17th August). It was going really well and a couple of weeks ago my long run was 9 miles which I finished tired but not absolutely dead either. That was running 5 times a week, I was doing about 32km a week (although increasing by about 3km per week?) and it was going really well.

Then just over a week ago I started counting calories as I have 10 pounds I'd like to lose (which I gained after a break up last year). I don't really know how much I should be eating as I'm extremely active but some of it is hard to track. I do on average 18,000 steps a day not including my runs, but during this time I'm mucking out horses, pushing heavy wheelbarrows, carrying buckets of water ect. I also ride 4 or 5 horses a day 5 times a week and 2 at weekends - averaging 2.5-3 hours a day in the saddle. I also do 1.5 hours of pole dancing and about 2 hours of aerial silks a week. I'm 5 foot 8, 22, female and 150 pounds. I've lost 2 pounds this week so wondering if I'm not eating enough, as that's too fast for me to be losing at this weight and perhaps that's why I'm now struggling with my runs?

I eat probably 90% healthy, lots of varied fruit and veg, lots of protein and wholegrain carbs. I always have some chocolate or ice cream or something a day. I've been eating 2500 calories on weekdays and 3000 on weekends (although this Sunday I probably had about 4000 due to an occasion thing).

Should I up my calories and see what happens? I'm not trying to run too fast or anything and I'm generally very determined and stubborn and am good at just keeping going but in 3 out of the last 4 runs I've had to stop earlier than intended and on the one where I completed, it was meant to be a progression run but halfway I hAd to settle for a slow pace or I couldn't of kept going.

Thoughts?

Replies

  • Walter__
    Walter__ Posts: 518 Member
    Prioritize your goals.

    You can't expect to perform optimally when you're eating in a calorie deficit.

    If you want to do your best at the tough mudder then eat for it. Once you're done with it then you can start eating at a deficit to lose weight again.
  • Rocket_Man44
    Rocket_Man44 Posts: 896
    How about counting macros whilst maintaining a deficit. Since i train 4 days and box 2 days I do a 45% carbs 35% Protein and 20% fat split. Gives me good energy to perform intense training while still getting leaner.
  • jimmmer
    jimmmer Posts: 3,515 Member
    Prioritize your goals.

    You can't expect to perform optimally when you're eating in a calorie deficit.

    If you want to do your best at the tough mudder then eat for it. Once you're done with it then you can start eating at a deficit to lose weight again.

    This^

    keep your eyes on the prize. If you want to succeed orientate your training and eating towards your goal. If something interferes (i.e. an extra day of lifting, or a calorie deficit) then drop it. Doing many different things at once usually ends up with you doing them all badly.

    TL;DR: Do one thing well, then do something else well afterwards. Or else you end up sucking at too many things simultaneously!
  • Ahrena
    Ahrena Posts: 44 Member
    Can I really not run decently on a small deficient? I more thought if I'm eating a deficient large enough to lose 2 pounds a week (unintentionally -0.5-1 pound a week is what I was aiming for) then that could be the problem rather than any deficient?

    For me the race is about completion at this point - who knows, maybe in future I'll be more interested beating certain time but I only entered as it sounds great fun! And then I started running purely to get fit for it (then like many people I discovered I actually love it), so I'm not overly bothered about making massive improvements with my pace and distance beyond what I'm currently doing as I do really want to lose these 10 pounds. Might sound silly but I grew up weighing 155 and always felt fat and had low self esteem, and when I made horses my career I lost 14 pounds without trying. I found my quality of life much better when I was at a weight where I genuinely liked my body (purely for myself, I don't care what anyone else thinks) so to be honest losing weight is a priority over improving my running at the mo...but I a also don't want my running to go backwards if that makes sense?

    Sorry rambling! I'll have a play with my macros and maybe add in a couple of hundred calories and see what happens?
  • junlex123
    junlex123 Posts: 81 Member
    Can I really not run decently on a small deficient? I more thought if I'm eating a deficient large enough to lose 2 pounds a week (unintentionally -0.5-1 pound a week is what I was aiming for) then that could be the problem rather than any deficient?

    For me the race is about completion at this point - who knows, maybe in future I'll be more interested beating certain time but I only entered as it sounds great fun! And then I started running purely to get fit for it (then like many people I discovered I actually love it), so I'm not overly bothered about making massive improvements with my pace and distance beyond what I'm currently doing as I do really want to lose these 10 pounds. Might sound silly but I grew up weighing 155 and always felt fat and had low self esteem, and when I made horses my career I lost 14 pounds without trying. I found my quality of life much better when I was at a weight where I genuinely liked my body (purely for myself, I don't care what anyone else thinks) so to be honest losing weight is a priority over improving my running at the mo...but I a also don't want my running to go backwards if that makes sense?

    Sorry rambling! I'll have a play with my macros and maybe add in a couple of hundred calories and see what happens?

    You can run ok on a small deficit, but if your current deficit is causing you to lose 2lb a week of fat (realistically speaking it's probably not all fat, some will be lean body mass, but regardless) then that's quite a significant deficit (roughly 1k cal per day on average). You could a) eat a bit more, so you're at a smaller deficit; b) eat quite a bit more so you're at maintenance; c) eat more still, so you're a little over maintenance. At each subsequent calorie level your running performance will probably improve. As the first replier said, it's a question of priorities. From the sounds of it your priorities at the moment are i) complete the race ii) lose body fat iii) improve running pace, so with that in mind you're probably right that just increasing calories to the point where you are at a slight deficit would be the best fit for you.

    Try it and see; there's no real one-size-fits-all number that will work for everyone. Just make sure you get a decent amount of rest time; personally I've found that if I'm running regularly on a significant deficit without enough rest days I tend to become a lot more injury prone.
  • icrushit
    icrushit Posts: 773 Member
    Maybe consider a carb load before and after your runs. This should fuel your runs, and if you're really on top of what you eat, why not set aside at least 3500 calories extra each week to eat around your runs, as if you're losing 2lbs a week currently, that should bring the loss back to about 1lb a week, while letting you meet your running goals too :)
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
    Prioritize your goals.

    You can't expect to perform optimally when you're eating in a calorie deficit.

    If you want to do your best at the tough mudder then eat for it. Once you're done with it then you can start eating at a deficit to lose weight again.

    THIS
  • kimstwin
    kimstwin Posts: 136 Member
    Prioritize your goals.

    You can't expect to perform optimally when you're eating in a calorie deficit.

    If you want to do your best at the tough mudder then eat for it. Once you're done with it then you can start eating at a deficit to lose weight again.


    This.

    The race is only a couple of weeks away. Finish your race. Then, make sure you get an accurate idea of what your true TDEE is. You don't want to take too steep a cut with only 10lbs to lose.

    Good luck with your race!
  • dirty_diana
    dirty_diana Posts: 27 Member
    Prioritize your goals.

    You can't expect to perform optimally when you're eating in a calorie deficit.

    If you want to do your best at the tough mudder then eat for it. Once you're done with it then you can start eating at a deficit to lose weight again.

    THIS... is bologna. You can absolutely run on a small deficit and still perform well. People do it all the time. I've done it myself. Losing 2 pounds in a week and feeling like crap just means your deficit is too large at this point. I would suggest adding 500-750 calories a day and you should start to feel better and still see some movement on the scale. If you can, I'd also suggest getting some kind of fitness tracking device (I use a Fitbit) to help you see how many calories you're actually burning in a day. Most people tend to overestimate what they burn, but with all your activity, I'd guess you're underestimating.
  • ME0172
    ME0172 Posts: 200
    You cn run and have energy and eat at a deficit. I do it. I have a couple of recommendations. Check your macros. Eat balanced enough to fuel yourself. And eat back your calories - or at least half - of what you burn on your runs. I eat back my burned calories. Oh one more thing - I notice if I do fasted cardio I have poor energy and run performance. So if I run first thing in the morning I eat a piece of toast or a half a mini-bagel before my run. I eat it as soon as I get up, then get dressed, etc. By the time I'm 5-10 minutes into my run my warm up and breakfast kick in and I feel good. Good luck!!
  • MinnieInMaine
    MinnieInMaine Posts: 6,400 Member
    OP, did I understand correctly that you set your profile up to lose 2 pound per week? That's WAY too agressive for someone with as little to lose as you do, not to mention someone who's training for a major athletic event. In either situation, 1/2 a pound per week is a more optimal goal for you.

    What do you have your activity level set at? Are you logging exercise for both your farm work and your race training? Are you eating some of those calories back?

    It might help, if you're willing, to make your diary public so we can make more specific suggestions.
  • badbcatha05
    badbcatha05 Posts: 200 Member
    I trained for my first half at a deficit. I was aiming for .5 loss a week. That is about what it ended up being. I had to make sure on my long run days I ate more than on my shorter mid week runs. But not by a ton. Do you take anything with you to eat on your long runs? I like to take some Honey Zinger chews around mile 6. I might try a bit earlier and take them twice in my next half (which I am still eating at a deficit for).

    You may just be eating at TOO MUCH of a deficit for what you are trying to do right now. I think you said you weigh about 150? I was a little bit over that when I started the first training program. I think timing your food intake right is important too, so maybe look and see when you meals are falling in relation to your runs.

    During the week before my race I tapered down the mileage and in a sense tapered up my food intake and by the 2-3 days before the race, I was eating at maintenance. It seemed to work, and I felt pretty awesome during the race and finished 23 minutes faster than my goal. You can absolutely train for your half at a deficit, just maybe a bit smaller of one than you are at now.
  • PeauxPeaux
    PeauxPeaux Posts: 71 Member
    One of my favorite fitness experts JUST wrote a post about how to eat and train to lose exactly ten pounds while training for a marathon----SERENDIPITY!

    http://www.laineygossip.com/Smutty-Fitness-Marathon-training-and-weight-loss/Lifestyle/24336
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
    Your deficit is too aggressive and your race is too close. Maintain for the next two weeks and then cut. With only 10 pounds to lose, you should only be losing 1/2 to 1 pound a week anyway.
  • 58Rock
    58Rock Posts: 176 Member
    With all the things you have listed that are doing physically, it sounds to me like your are over training (over working). Cut back on something and concentrate on your running.
  • Carrieendar
    Carrieendar Posts: 493 Member
    Have you read any of Matt Fitzgerald's books? Check out Racing Weight, I highly highly highly recommend it for a someone looking to get leaner but remain an endurance runner! Lots of great information on carbs, high quality foods, fueling training, and all that.
  • EmoJew
    EmoJew Posts: 94 Member
    OP, why don't you go back to eating however you WERE eating when you felt fine and log it for a week or 4 to see what your average looks like. You clearly had a balance then.


    Then, when you have a food idea of how your own body functions, knock 5% or so off your intake to lose slowly. Everyone is different.
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
    OP, why don't you go back to eating however you WERE eating when you felt fine and log it for a week or 4 to see what your average looks like. You clearly had a balance then.


    Then, when you have a food idea of how your own body functions, knock 5% or so off your intake to lose slowly. Everyone is different.

    This is terrific advice.
  • Ahrena
    Ahrena Posts: 44 Member
    Thanks very much guys, lots of food for thought ;)

    I havn't been logging my intake/outtake on MFP to be honest because I used to have any ED and I'm happier trying to think about food as little as possible, whereas if I get too obsessive logging ect, I get obsessive in general. Also MFP doesn't have horse riding, pole or silks so I can only log my steps and running! Hence why I kind of picked a calorie intake out of the blue (and its slightly higher than the highest amount I get recommended on any of the calculators), I didn't intend to lose 2 pounds, but given I've only just started counting, until I realised how poor my running was, I was going to wait another week before adjusting it incase it was water weight. Losing 0.5 or 1 pound a week is absolutely fine with me, I'm perfectly content with it coming off nice and slow.

    I tend to run about half an hour after I get up, and beforehand I have either a banana or a nakd or nut bar. Sometimes before my long runs I have a proper breakfast (say egg and veg frittata and wholegrain toast or a protein pancake and banana) and tend to my horses first - that's what I did before my last 2 longer runs which really sucked, I had plenty of time to digest but perhaps that was too protein heavy for me?

    On my last long run I took an energy gel (it came free with the running water bottle I bought), which is the first time I've taken anything. On runs 8km plus I take a water bottle with electrolytes in it.

    Oddly enough I didn't really /have/ a balance before I started logging - that's part of the reason I did. I gained these 10 pounds by binge eating after a break up and its taken a long time for my eating patterns to settle, and I partly wanted to count because I was in a bit of an under eating then over eating cycle I think (scared to eat too much but clearly not eating enough and then compensating by having a few days a week where I ate everything in sight) - its all a bit awkward haha!

    Really hope this doesn't sound like I'm chucking everyone's advice away, absolutely not, I'm thinking about it all. I've raised my calories by 250 to start and if I still feel crummy or lose weight too fast I'll up it again. I will up my calories as well in the week before the race (and reduce the running, was planning on doing that anyway from what I've read online).

    Thanks so much for all the advice. I've never exercised this much in my life and I know its a lot, but I genuinely do it all because I enjoy it, so I need to figure out how to fuel myself so I can carry on. (I do take days off from exercise btw, although the horses are a 7 day week thing, but has been like that for 10 years and I can't afford a groom so that's how it has to be :) )

    I'll check out that book too, thanks :) Definitely want to figure out a way to make all this work as if I had to give something up or reduce it, it would have to be running to be honest and I really don't want to!
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
    I was in a total restraint/binge cycle before I started MFP. I felt totally out of control.

    There are entries for horse riding, and I might try silks under calisthenics - but I'm pretty casual because everything washes out when you compare it to weight lost. As long as you are consistent, you can make up the difference by tweaking activity level.

    Bad runs can be anything - fuel, hydration, going too fast, heat. But it sounds like fueling is a great place to start. Good luck!
  • bobbijodmb
    bobbijodmb Posts: 463 Member
    I ran two half marathons this spring and lost 30 lbs while doing it. It only impacted my running positively. What i have found works for me is on days that I just run for an hour- i keep my calories that same that I would doing any other exercising (for me right now that is 1300). on days i run up to 16 miles, I increase those calories by 75 calories a mile. and I listen to my body on those long run days-- if I am hungry I eat-- just healthy options.

    It may not have anything to do with your eating- it could be weather, you body, training etc.

    Usually with training programs it should be a pyramid. For example- 20 miles, 22 miles, 25 miles, 20 miles. you body needs a down week every 2-3 weeks to repair

    just my opinion from my experience, best of luck =)
  • alathIN
    alathIN Posts: 142 Member
    With all the things you have listed that are doing physically, it sounds to me like your are over training (over working). Cut back on something and concentrate on your running.

    This was my first thought too.

    Even when you are doing a run-focused training program, they are not constantly building longer and faster with every workout. Fitness is built with cycles of stress and recovery. If you just stress stress stress all the time, your body never has a chance to build fitness.
  • malenkilady
    malenkilady Posts: 1 Member
    Hey I totally get what your going through. I'm working on losing weight for ROTC right now and I'm doing the Tahoe Tough Mudder race this Sunday. I'd say follow what your body tells you is right for it. I mainly use MFP to regulate my food intake rather than to just count calories. Just be safe and don't starve yourself, but two pounds as an initial weight loss is normal. Your body drops a lot of water weight first then it kicks into weight loss overdrive. I dropped 10 pounds my first month then slowed down exponentially. That's just how our body works :)
  • SingingSingleTracker
    SingingSingleTracker Posts: 1,866 Member
    Prioritize your goals.

    You can't expect to perform optimally when you're eating in a calorie deficit.

    If you want to do your best at the tough mudder then eat for it. Once you're done with it then you can start eating at a deficit to lose weight again.

    Dirty Diana wrote...

    THIS... is bologna. You can absolutely run on a small deficit and still perform well. People do it all the time. I've done it myself. Losing 2 pounds in a week and feeling like crap just means your deficit is too large at this point. I would suggest adding 500-750 calories a day and you should start to feel better and still see some movement on the scale. If you can, I'd also suggest getting some kind of fitness tracking device (I use a Fitbit) to help you see how many calories you're actually burning in a day. Most people tend to overestimate what they burn, but with all your activity, I'd guess you're underestimating.

    Dirty D - you're almost right.

    Howver....studies have shown that performance will suffer while losing weight (Lunn, Finn, and Axtell's work in 2009). The book referenced above in this thread by Matt Fitzgerald sites the studies of athletes where they took several groups and divided them up thusly for a 10 week training study...

    Group 1 - added 2 x week sprint intervals to increase their power, but maintained their current weight
    Group 2 - maintained their regular training, and actively pursued weight loss through dieting
    Group 3 - added 2 x week sprint intervals to increase their power, and pursued weight loss through dieting
    Group 4 - control group that maintained their current training and their current body weight

    The group that saw the most performance increase was group 1 (gained 10% in performance). Of the two groups that pursued weight loss - group 3 - saw no performance increase due to, what Lunn refers to, as "inadequate protein intake kept their muscles from adapting to the stress imposed by the sprints"... .

    Howver, group 2 saw a performance increase simply due to the weight loss making them lighter so their power to weight ratio was better than it was at the heavier weight.

    The ideal time to lose weight and gain peformance is not leading right up into an event (such as the OP). So the posts suggesting to the OP to hold off on the weight loss until after this weekend may have a point depending on the OP's diet, and final 2-3 weeks of taper training into the event. And you may be correct in that a fine balance of losing the weight, yet fueling with enough protein to avoid muscle power performance loss could still allow the OP to trim some of the fat without a degradation in peformance.

    At this point, it is probably moot with an event only 4 days away. The OP should focus on nutrient loading and recovery leading into the event to peak as best as they can for the best performance. It's the recovery where the most gains are made - and all the stress that the OP loaded onto her body with the final training should now be left to recover and build for this weekend.
  • ElliottTN
    ElliottTN Posts: 1,614 Member
    So just going to throw this out here from personal experience. If you think your runs are suffering due to overall calorie deficit than why not pay closer attention to meal timing and macros? No reason to not have your cake and eat it too.

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