Squats scare me

Menix8 · July 2014

I used to squat regularly, but when I signed on with a physique trainer last December he switched me over to the Leg Press. I've since stopped training with that coach, and would love to get into power lifting, but when it comes to squats I get nervous.

Honestly, I'm scared to do them. I'm 5'10", and my height is all in my legs. It feels really hard to even get to parallel, and the whole a** to grass thing almost seems out of my range of motion. I don't lack muscle in my legs, but even just body weight squats... that motion just feels really awkward. I've been doing Sumo/Goblet squats in the meantime, but I feel like I should be doing deep back squats.

Mark Rippetoe claims everyone can squat deep, and there are a lot of people who agree and disagree with him. Even in the Olympics, a squat doesn't count if you're not low.

So, what should I do? Can everyone squat low with good form? Should I suck it up and squat the bar as low as I can, or load it up and go as low as I feel comfortable going? Should I accept that I'm not built for back squats and continue with not-as-heavy Sumo/Goblet squats?

TL;DR - Are my fears of the a**-to-grass back squat legit?

ironanimal · July 2014

Can you squat down deep, flat footed, without any addiitonal weight? If not, it's likely that flexibility is an issue, either in the hip, knee or ankle or all of the above.

mjudd1990 · July 2014

I'd say it's definitely possible for almost everyone to squat low with the caveat of everyone will need a slightly varied stance to have full ROM. Femur length and the amount of anteversion/retroversion of your femoral head are major determinants of your optimal squat stance. Sounds like you have longer legs like myself so try adopting a slightly wider than shoulder width stance and play around with your toe placement. Sometimes it's as simple as rotating your feet outward or inward slightly to achieve that last bit of depth. Obviously those things are all anatomical and beyond your control so other than that do lots of mobility work (stretch, foam roll, etc.) and work on glute activation especially right before you squat. I've found that doing a few sets of body weight glute bridges and duck walks prior to squatting makes a major difference in how deep I can comfortably go.

sympha01 · July 2014

Man, bumping for the replies. I've been trying for about a year and my bodyweight squats have gotten better, but I feel really unbalanced at the bottom, and it's just not possible for me to keep the angle of my back equal to the angle of my shins. Using weight just doesn't seem like a good idea if as long as my form in bodyweight is so poor!

I'm inclined to think that flexibility in the hips is my problem, though it's possible the ankles are tricky for me too as I've got a (mild, now) PF issue.

Menix8 · July 2014

Can you squat down deep, flat footed, without any addiitonal weight? If not, it's likely that flexibility is an issue, either in the hip, knee or ankle or all of the above.

No, not really.

I just feel like I'm going to fall back. I tried to compensate for that with front squats until someone at the gym informed me that I was leaning waaay too far forward.

6ftamazon · July 2014

I think you just have to change your stance. I'm 6 feet tall with long legs....just have a bit wider stance and practice and you'll get the proper motion

Menix8 · July 2014

Try adopting a slightly wider than shoulder width stance and play around with your toe placement. Sometimes it's as simple as rotating your feet outward or inward slightly to achieve that last bit of depth. Obviously those things are all anatomical and beyond your control so other than that do lots of mobility work (stretch, foam roll, etc.) and work on glute activation especially right before you squat. I've found that doing a few sets of body weight glute bridges and duck walks prior to squatting makes a major difference in how deep I can comfortably go.

Leg day tomorrow, I'll give these a shot. Thanks.

chrissyrenee1029 · July 2014

Can you squat down deep, flat footed, without any addiitonal weight? If not, it's likely that flexibility is an issue, either in the hip, knee or ankle or all of the above.

No, not really. I just feel like I'm going to fall back. I tried to compensate for that with front squats until someone at the gym informed me that I was leaning waaay too far forward.

Have you tried box squats? Maybe having the box behind you will make you less apprehensive until you can get your form down?

Temple_Fit · July 2014

I'd say it's definitely possible for almost everyone to squat low with the caveat of everyone will need a slightly varied stance to have full ROM. Femur length and the amount of anteversion/retroversion of your femoral head are major determinants of your optimal squat stance. Sounds like you have longer legs like myself so try adopting a slightly wider than shoulder width stance and play around with your toe placement. Sometimes it's as simple as rotating your feet outward or inward slightly to achieve that last bit of depth. Obviously those things are all anatomical and beyond your control so other than that do lots of mobility work (stretch, foam roll, etc.) and work on glute activation especially right before you squat. I've found that doing a few sets of body weight glute bridges and duck walks prior to squatting makes a major difference in how deep I can comfortably go.

I agree completely agree with this comment.

krivedal · July 2014

I'm far from perfect at squats but I have found three things helpful:

1 - the "smith machine" or what ever 'attached' squat rack is at your gym -- it keeps the weight on an even path and even lets me lean on the bar a bit to feel the proper body angle

2 - use a 'step up' box as a safety net -- if I know I will sit on the box rather than falling to the ground, I am a bit braver about pushing for depth

3 - just keep at it. You'll never get better if you avoid them (now, if I could only force myself to really do that with burpees...)

Walter__ · July 2014

Find your squat position:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdWERbUBOc4 (most relevant part starts at 3:35, but you can watch the whole thing)

Once you find that position, perfect the technique:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ME8gEN54Ao (it's a 5 part series - watch at least the first 3)

These are the best videos I've ever found to fix my squat.

ironanimal · July 2014

Can you squat down deep, flat footed, without any addiitonal weight? If not, it's likely that flexibility is an issue, either in the hip, knee or ankle or all of the above.

No, not really. I just feel like I'm going to fall back. I tried to compensate for that with front squats until someone at the gym informed me that I was leaning waaay too far forward.

Bodyweight - That's normal. A barbell shifts you centre of gravity forward by comparison anyway. If you can get into a deep squat position with your chest up, even if you have a hand on something to stabilise you, you should be fine to squat with a barbell.

If your front squat was way forward, you need more of a heel in your shoe or better flexibility in your wrists usually.

Edit; Stay away from Smith Machines for Squats. They force you into a direct vertical movement, which the squat is not.

6ftamazon · July 2014

Can you squat down deep, flat footed, without any addiitonal weight? If not, it's likely that flexibility is an issue, either in the hip, knee or ankle or all of the above.

No, not really. I just feel like I'm going to fall back. I tried to compensate for that with front squats until someone at the gym informed me that I was leaning waaay too far forward.

Have you tried box squats? Maybe having the box behind you will make you less apprehensive until you can get your form down?

Box squats are a great help as well, I forgot about this. When I first started, my trainer retrained me using the box and holding his hand out, forcing me to do proper form.

Menix8 · August 2014

*UPDATE*

So I watched the videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pdWERbUBOc4 <--- super helpful

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ME8gEN54Ao

I did the stretches, and find them extremely helpful to do right before I squat. Definitely going to continue these.
http://www.mikereinold.com/2013/03/ankle-mobility-exercises-to-improve-dorsiflexion.html

And I still can't do body weight squats without feeling like I'm falling forward. I also find that when I do back squats, my knees do go past my toes. Is that concerning? It's not by a lot, but they definitely do.

However, I finally feel comfortable with my back; specifically, I asked a fellow gym-goer to evaluate my form, and I tried watching in the mirror, and I finally feel confident that my back is straight and not bending at the bottom. I did several sets of front squats this morning (with just the bar) and actually felt good. I felt like I was going low enough, I pushed through my heels, and didn't feel off-balance at all. When I felt my back rounding on the fourth set, I knew it was time to stop. The first three sets looked good though.

TL;DR Does it matter that my knees go over my toes on back squats? Should I still focus on improving my back squat, or will front squats give me similar hypertrophy and strength results?

Thanks!

ecjim · August 2014

With long legs you might have more trouble getting low
-You might be able to get lower if you use more of a power lifting stance (wider stance)
- When I warm up I sort of relax my legs when I'm deep in the squat to help stretch my legs (do this with light weights only or just the bar or body wieght)
-maybe elevate your heel - oly shoes have a higher heel - with you heels elevated your knees will go farther forward

There is a reason why the Squat is called King of the Exercises

if you are going heavy or high reps learn how to dump the bar off your back or squat in a rack

ecjim · August 2014

just to clarify what I meant - You don't really relax in the down position - that would be dumb - just sort of let the weight push you lower - I was just starting a squat session and was warming up - I did a lot of damage to my left leg & ankle in the past and have limited flexibility there and lumbar spine, so I really have to warm up - Eastcoast Jim

meshashesha2012 · August 2014

i'm not 5'10 but i am relatively all leg all leg as well. it's ok if your knees go past your knees since the only way around it with long legs is to be seated so far back that you lose balance. i've been squatting for like 26 years some of those years competing and my knees have always gone past my toes when i get post paralell. i've never had knee issues

i use a wider stance, not sumo but wider than normal i guess. ankle and calf flexibility are also going to be key for long legged squats

also i understand what you mean about not being able to go ATG, my hamstrings could be on the back of my calves and i'd still have like 12" of space between my butt and the floor.

i

QueenBishOTUniverse · August 2014

A couple stretches to help with hip mobility:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2qZ517Rw7ME

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBHzXF-mVjY

As has been mentioned, ATG may not be an option, but there's no reason you can't get a good low squat if you open up your stance and work on whatever mobility issues you have.

Menix8 · August 2014

i'm not 5'10 but i am relatively all leg all leg as well. it's ok if your knees go past your knees since the only way around it with long legs is to be seated so far back that you lose balance. i've been squatting for like 26 years some of those years competing and my knees have always gone past my toes when i get post paralell. i've never had knee issues

i use a wider stance, not sumo but wider than normal i guess. ankle and calf flexibility are also going to be key for long legged squats

also i understand what you mean about not being able to go ATG, my hamstrings could be on the back of my calves and i'd still have like 12" of space between my butt and the floor.

i

Thank you for this. I've been poking around the interwebz and it looks like the whole "don't let you knees go past your toes!" theory has about as much substantial evidence as "starvation mode." I just don't like to be careless with my joints, since that's one part of the body you REALLY don't want to screw up.

But this is good! The videos (emphasizing the wider stance and knees out especially) and the stretching (ankle and hip flexibility) really helped. I may be back to squatting the bar, but at least I've got my form down and can feel comfortable and safe about increasing the weight. No more partial squats for this girl.

cwolfman13 · August 2014

Sounds like you have longer legs like myself so try adopting a slightly wider than shoulder width stance and play around with your toe placement.

Mikkimeow · August 2014

Hardcore bumping.

wonderwoman234 · August 2014

When I first started squatting, it felt unnatural and I had a hard time getting to parallel even with just body weight. But that changed very quickly. I started out doing squats with just the bar for a few weeks and in between, my trainer had me doing *kitten* to grass assisted squats holding on to straps on the RDX machine we have at my gym. It really, really helped. I also use a shoulder width stance and my toes are slightly pointed out. Your legs/knees should follow the line of your toes, so don't go crazy pointing them too far.

I am up to 95 lbs. (not my max, but what I can do for 4 sets/8 reps.) and I think my form is pretty darn good at this point.

Also, my trainer would recommend that you do your squats FIRST so that you are doing them with fresh legs.

meshashesha2012 · August 2014

i'm not 5'10 but i am relatively all leg all leg as well. it's ok if your knees go past your knees since the only way around it with long legs is to be seated so far back that you lose balance. i've been squatting for like 26 years some of those years competing and my knees have always gone past my toes when i get post paralell. i've never had knee issues

i use a wider stance, not sumo but wider than normal i guess. ankle and calf flexibility are also going to be key for long legged squats

also i understand what you mean about not being able to go ATG, my hamstrings could be on the back of my calves and i'd still have like 12" of space between my butt and the floor.

i

Thank you for this. I've been poking around the interwebz and it looks like the whole "don't let you knees go past your toes!" theory has about as much substantial evidence as "starvation mode." I just don't like to be careless with my joints, since that's one part of the body you REALLY don't want to screw up.

But this is good! The videos (emphasizing the wider stance and knees out especially) and the stretching (ankle and hip flexibility) really helped. I may be back to squatting the bar, but at least I've got my form down and can feel comfortable and safe about increasing the weight. No more partial squats for this girl.

i think that advice was written for people with stubby legs or something :laugh:

shor0814 · August 2014

In addition to the above videos, here is another that shows a 2 part process for squatting; breaking at the hip then dropping at the knees.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RMFHgVN_pcg&list=UUaHx0T1LWrVKWF1XfWWLSuw

This allows you to concentrate on one movement at a time.

Once you set your upper body position don't move it, it should stay where it is at through the whole movement and should be right place the bar over the mid-foot as determined by bar location on the back. You can also stand in front of the squat upright, set your upper body and squat down, your face should stay the same distance from the upright.

The other tip I got was to keep pushing your butt back like you are trying to sit on a chair that keeps moving further back.

Your knees can go past your toes but it should happen in the first 1/3 of the squat and then stop moving.

You can test your ankle flexibility by placing 2.5 lb plates below your heels and squatting with low or no weight, if you can get deeper then you need to work on ankle flexibility.

Keep practicing and make videos of your squat to review between sets.

meshashesha2012 · August 2014

OP if you want to get more ATG you can try front squats. i find the weight in from of my body really helps as a counterbalance

sheilaq14 · August 2014

Bump

juliewatkin · August 2014

I'm not as tall as you but I'm a lot of leg. I watch with envy as my short legged co-competitors squat with their stupid little short ranges of motion. Who knew I would one day envy stubby legged women. When I squat I feel like my *kitten* is traveling through time zones. Having said that, I've found what I think works for me. If I sit back into a squat, I get a lot of forward lean and because of the length of my femurs, I have to travel a fair distance to break parallel. What works best for me when raw squatting is slightly wider than shoulder width and breaking at the knees first and dropping down rather than sitting back. Once I get too much forward lean, I tend to 'good morning' out of the hole meaning my hips rise faster than my shoulders.

Anyone can squat. You only have to watch a world championship to see the wide range of body types. You just have to spend time figuring out what works best for you.

fatfudgery · August 2014

First of all, don't worry about going ATG unless you're squatting high bar. Just squat low bar, which forces you to bring your torso forward a little more, maximizing hamstrings and glutes activation just by hitting parallel. Rippetoe's book Starting Strength goes into all of this in detail if you want to read about it.

Now, almost every person I've seen who can't squat at least to parallel is trying to stand with their feet too close for the length of their legs. Widen your stance!

Also try some ankle stretches to help with the whole falling over at the bottom thing. Kelly Starrett is the man:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gwgm3s2EQ0

Lemongrab13 · August 2014

This fixed my squat 100% http://www.schwarzenegger.com/fitness/post/picking-the-squat-thats-rght-for-you
Before that I couldn't get it. At all :noway:
I'm 6'3, so that squat form for shorties was not cutting it, bruh.

Squats scare me

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