Shakeology?

245

Replies

  • GiveMeCoffee
    GiveMeCoffee Posts: 3,556 Member
    ok. I use shakeology daily. This is probably my favorite thing ever. No, its not overpriced. the way I see it, I could either be paying for a bunch of food to make up a breakfast, or I could be paying for this shake. its not junk, its done wonders for me. If you are interested in learning more about it let me know! I'm more than willing to help you figure out if its worth your money!

    You can say it all you want....it's still junk.

    OP, no need to buy that junk.

    you can also say all you want hating on it. but obviously you never tried it so don't know. how about instead of negativity and judging something you wouldn't look twice at just because your "that kind of guy" you let somebody with an honest opinion help out.

    Your opinion is skewed due to being a beachbody coach and getting money off selling people overpriced junk. Nice that your contribution to the community since June 2013 is 15 post and majority in here trying to take advantage of people.
  • tshabliss
    tshabliss Posts: 22 Member
    [/quote]

    Your opinion is skewed due to being a beachbody coach and getting money off selling people overpriced junk. Nice that your contribution to the community since June 2013 is 15 post and majority in here trying to take advantage of people.
    [/quote]

    can you people not read?!?! I DID NOT SELL OR TRY TO SELL HER SOMETHING! i gave her my opinion. if i wanted to sell it to her i would have given her way more information than that. im a coach because if i can help somebody else then so be it. i get a discount on my stuff, and nutrition and fitness is what i love to do. so until you know the whole story, why not gang up on somebody who actually values your opinion?
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    ok. I use shakeology daily. This is probably my favorite thing ever. No, its not overpriced. the way I see it, I could either be paying for a bunch of food to make up a breakfast, or I could be paying for this shake. its not junk, its done wonders for me. If you are interested in learning more about it let me know! I'm more than willing to help you figure out if its worth your money!

    A dozen eggs and a package of bacon costs around $5 and covers breakfast for 3 days.
    A package of chicken and several cans of vegetables costs $12 and covers lunch for an entire week.
    A bag of potatoes costs $5 and lasts 3-4 weeks.

    With your beachbody coach discount a single shake costs you $3.32.

    Explain how that isn't over priced.
  • newdaydawning79
    newdaydawning79 Posts: 1,503 Member
    and why would i want to take advantage of somebody in the same boat as I've been? that's stupid. get your **** straight before you open your mouths.

    Wow. Someone's hangry. Those shakes must not be cutting it. :laugh:
  • tshabliss
    tshabliss Posts: 22 Member
    ok. I use shakeology daily. This is probably my favorite thing ever. No, its not overpriced. the way I see it, I could either be paying for a bunch of food to make up a breakfast, or I could be paying for this shake. its not junk, its done wonders for me. If you are interested in learning more about it let me know! I'm more than willing to help you figure out if its worth your money!

    A dozen eggs and a package of bacon costs around $5 and covers breakfast for 3 days.
    A package of chicken and several cans of vegetables costs $12 and covers lunch for an entire week.
    A bag of potatoes costs $5 and lasts 3-4 weeks.

    With your beachbody coach discount a single shake costs you $3.32.

    Explain how that isn't over priced.

    did i ever say it wasn't overpriced? nope i think the cost is absolutely ridiculous. but it works for ME. im not worried about what works for you. and cans of vegetables are gross. so no, i don't get those. this shake it what i use. i gave my opinion of it. i am not saying that it would be great for you or the next person. i gave what i personally think. the price works with my meal plan and my program. so if that's not ok with you, then alright, you are entitled to that opinion. im glad you found a system that works for you. but this is me.
  • GiveMeCoffee
    GiveMeCoffee Posts: 3,556 Member
    and why would i want to take advantage of somebody in the same boat as I've been? that's stupid. get your **** straight before you open your mouths.

    This is your motto on your profile : "Mission: role model"

    Might want to work on that... but it's very overpriced, it is not necessary and this comment
    If you are interested in learning more about it let me know! I'm more than willing to help you figure out if its worth your money!
    That is a sales pitch
  • iheartinsanity
    iheartinsanity Posts: 205 Member
    As a coach you get it for (no, i'm not one) $3.74 a pop, plus tax. I used to do morning fluff coffee so it replaced it. No biggie if you have that kind of money to shell out at Starbucks every day of the week. Just gotta swap out and make it yourself.

    Everything it promised on the package it did for me: improved regularity, lost weight, reduced cravings. I'm also growing my hair out waist length and it the extra vitamins it provides it definitely helping my hair/skin/nails when I take it.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    ok. I use shakeology daily. This is probably my favorite thing ever. No, its not overpriced. the way I see it, I could either be paying for a bunch of food to make up a breakfast, or I could be paying for this shake. its not junk, its done wonders for me. If you are interested in learning more about it let me know! I'm more than willing to help you figure out if its worth your money!

    A dozen eggs and a package of bacon costs around $5 and covers breakfast for 3 days.
    A package of chicken and several cans of vegetables costs $12 and covers lunch for an entire week.
    A bag of potatoes costs $5 and lasts 3-4 weeks.

    With your beachbody coach discount a single shake costs you $3.32.

    Explain how that isn't over priced.

    did i ever say it wasn't overpriced? nope i think the cost is absolutely ****ing ridiculous. but it works for ME. im not worried about what works for you. and cans of vegetables are ****ing gross. so no, i don't get those. this shake it what i use. i gave my opinion of it. i am not saying that it would be great for you or the next person. i gave what i personally think. the price works with my meal plan and my program. so if that's not ok with you, then alright, you are entitled to that opinion. im glad you found a system that works for you. but this is me.

    You did say it was not overpriced, which is why I commented on that part (please check the areas I bolded). Also, frozen vegetables and fresh vegetables are nearly the same cost as a can of vegetables.
  • tshabliss
    tshabliss Posts: 22 Member
    [/quote]
    That is a sales pitch
    [/quote]

    yea, and if you knew anything about it, you'd know that if she was interested in it, she probably already has a coach that she has talked to. what is it with you people and constantly spreading hate?! i honestly don't get why you are even on here if you are just gonna be rude to people all day. sounds like you live positive lives
  • newdaydawning79
    newdaydawning79 Posts: 1,503 Member
    To the OP: I make my own protein smoothie using whey protein (mine's from GNC but you can get it pretty much anywhere anymore), light almond milk and frozen fruit. It's so thick you have to eat it with a spoon til it warms up a little, and can last me hours. I think it'd wind up being cheaper than these and you'd get just as much out of it.

    I don't subscribe to any of those shakes/diets/wraps/etc that come along. Now is that saying some people haven't benefitted from it? Not at all. Some use it for a jump-start and then go on to normal eating at a deficit without a problem. However, a lot will try it for a quick fix and then gain it all back plus some once they stop drinking them (shakes) or eating whatever food comes in the mail (diets).

    I'm losing steadily eating at a deficit and walking. Adding personal training starting in 2 weeks (since this Monday is a holiday and the trainer won't be in town) to retain more lean body mass. You have to do what's best for YOU, no matter what I or anyone else in here thinks!
  • iheartinsanity
    iheartinsanity Posts: 205 Member
    ok. I use shakeology daily. This is probably my favorite thing ever. No, its not overpriced. the way I see it, I could either be paying for a bunch of food to make up a breakfast, or I could be paying for this shake. its not junk, its done wonders for me. If you are interested in learning more about it let me know! I'm more than willing to help you figure out if its worth your money!

    A dozen eggs and a package of bacon costs around $5 and covers breakfast for 3 days.
    A package of chicken and several cans of vegetables costs $12 and covers lunch for an entire week.
    A bag of potatoes costs $5 and lasts 3-4 weeks.

    With your beachbody coach discount a single shake costs you $3.32.

    Explain how that isn't over priced.

    I don't know where you live but bacon here costs $5.99 a package, $4.99 if you find it on sale (plus we're one of the states that have sales tax on food, so add in more). Eggs about $2 a package. Eggs bacon, chicken, and canned veggies (hello sodium!!) don't contain spirulina, wheat grass, yacon root, goji berry, acai, flax, etc. I'd rather may more and keep the garbage out of my temple.
  • tshabliss
    tshabliss Posts: 22 Member
    [/quote]

    You did say it was not overpriced, which is why I commented on that part (please check the areas I bolded). Also, frozen vegetables and fresh vegetables are nearly the same cost as a can of vegetables.
    [/quote]

    i just personally don't like canned veggies. i like the frozen stuff. maybe its just personally preference. either way. its what i like. its not overpriced if you learn how to budget stuff. a lot of people say they cant afford shakeology, but are at starbucks every day with a $5 coffee when its just as easy to make it at home. or they go out to eat 4 nights a week when they could cook at home and save a ton of money. I've learned to make it work for me. if you are going to be another person *****ing about the way i do things then save your breath. i was giving an opinion that's it.
  • GiveMeCoffee
    GiveMeCoffee Posts: 3,556 Member

    That is a sales pitch
    yea, and if you knew anything about it, you'd know that if she was interested in it, she probably already has a coach that she has talked to. what is it with you people and constantly spreading hate?! i honestly don't get why you are even on here if you are just gonna be rude to people all day. sounds like you live positive lives

    Yes I know you coaches are a dime a dozen, and with the OP making this thread she is probably being flooded with messages. It's not hate, it's helping other people not to waste money on a product that is unnecessary. I live a very positive live and luckily for me when I was new on here there were people that posted so I didn't spend money and believe the crap. So if I can help prevent one person from wasting their money on worthless junk, I'll post.
  • RGv2
    RGv2 Posts: 5,789 Member
    ok. I use shakeology daily. This is probably my favorite thing ever. No, its not overpriced. the way I see it, I could either be paying for a bunch of food to make up a breakfast, or I could be paying for this shake. its not junk, its done wonders for me. If you are interested in learning more about it let me know! I'm more than willing to help you figure out if its worth your money!

    A dozen eggs and a package of bacon costs around $5 and covers breakfast for 3 days.
    A package of chicken and several cans of vegetables costs $12 and covers lunch for an entire week.
    A bag of potatoes costs $5 and lasts 3-4 weeks.

    With your beachbody coach discount a single shake costs you $3.32.

    Explain how that isn't over priced.

    I don't know where you live but bacon here costs $5.99 a package, $4.99 if you find it on sale (plus we're one of the states that have sales tax on food, so add in more). Eggs about $2 a package. Eggs bacon, chicken, and canned veggies (hello sodium!!) don't contain spirulina, wheat grass, yacon root, goji berry, acai, flax, etc. I'd rather may more and keep the garbage out of my temple.

    Are we still talking about shakeology?
  • tshabliss
    tshabliss Posts: 22 Member
    ok. I use shakeology daily. This is probably my favorite thing ever. No, its not overpriced. the way I see it, I could either be paying for a bunch of food to make up a breakfast, or I could be paying for this shake. its not junk, its done wonders for me. If you are interested in learning more about it let me know! I'm more than willing to help you figure out if its worth your money!

    A dozen eggs and a package of bacon costs around $5 and covers breakfast for 3 days.
    A package of chicken and several cans of vegetables costs $12 and covers lunch for an entire week.
    A bag of potatoes costs $5 and lasts 3-4 weeks.

    With your beachbody coach discount a single shake costs you $3.32.

    Explain how that isn't over priced.

    I don't know where you live but bacon here costs $5.99 a package, $4.99 if you find it on sale (plus we're one of the states that have sales tax on food, so add in more). Eggs about $2 a package. Eggs bacon, chicken, and canned veggies (hello sodium!!) don't contain spirulina, wheat grass, yacon root, goji berry, acai, flax, etc. I'd rather may more and keep the garbage out of my temple.

    thank you, for at least understanding!
  • newdaydawning79
    newdaydawning79 Posts: 1,503 Member
    ok. I use shakeology daily. This is probably my favorite thing ever. No, its not overpriced. the way I see it, I could either be paying for a bunch of food to make up a breakfast, or I could be paying for this shake. its not junk, its done wonders for me. If you are interested in learning more about it let me know! I'm more than willing to help you figure out if its worth your money!

    A dozen eggs and a package of bacon costs around $5 and covers breakfast for 3 days.
    A package of chicken and several cans of vegetables costs $12 and covers lunch for an entire week.
    A bag of potatoes costs $5 and lasts 3-4 weeks.

    With your beachbody coach discount a single shake costs you $3.32.

    Explain how that isn't over priced.

    I don't know where you live but bacon here costs $5.99 a package, $4.99 if you find it on sale (plus we're one of the states that have sales tax on food, so add in more). Eggs about $2 a package. Eggs bacon, chicken, and canned veggies (hello sodium!!) don't contain spirulina, wheat grass, yacon root, goji berry, acai, flax, etc. I'd rather may more and keep the garbage out of my temple.

    Where was there garbage in that, other than the sodium (which, easy -buy fresh/frozen or get no salt added canned vegetables)?
  • a_stronger_me13
    a_stronger_me13 Posts: 812 Member
    ok. I use shakeology daily. This is probably my favorite thing ever. No, its not overpriced. the way I see it, I could either be paying for a bunch of food to make up a breakfast, or I could be paying for this shake. its not junk, its done wonders for me. If you are interested in learning more about it let me know! I'm more than willing to help you figure out if its worth your money!

    A dozen eggs and a package of bacon costs around $5 and covers breakfast for 3 days.
    A package of chicken and several cans of vegetables costs $12 and covers lunch for an entire week.
    A bag of potatoes costs $5 and lasts 3-4 weeks.

    With your beachbody coach discount a single shake costs you $3.32.

    Explain how that isn't over priced.

    I don't know where you live but bacon here costs $5.99 a package, $4.99 if you find it on sale (plus we're one of the states that have sales tax on food, so add in more). Eggs about $2 a package. Eggs bacon, chicken, and canned veggies (hello sodium!!) don't contain spirulina, wheat grass, yacon root, goji berry, acai, flax, etc. I'd rather may more and keep the garbage out of my temple.

    Jennifer-Lawrence-Saying-Whatever.gif

    My "temple" does just fine regularly eating bacon, chicken, eggs, canned/frozen veggies and excluding things like spirulina, wheat grass, yacon root, goji berry, acai and flax.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member
    ok. I use shakeology daily. This is probably my favorite thing ever. No, its not overpriced. the way I see it, I could either be paying for a bunch of food to make up a breakfast, or I could be paying for this shake. its not junk, its done wonders for me. If you are interested in learning more about it let me know! I'm more than willing to help you figure out if its worth your money!

    A dozen eggs and a package of bacon costs around $5 and covers breakfast for 3 days.
    A package of chicken and several cans of vegetables costs $12 and covers lunch for an entire week.
    A bag of potatoes costs $5 and lasts 3-4 weeks.

    With your beachbody coach discount a single shake costs you $3.32.

    Explain how that isn't over priced.

    I don't know where you live but bacon here costs $5.99 a package, $4.99 if you find it on sale (plus we're one of the states that have sales tax on food, so add in more). Eggs about $2 a package. Eggs bacon, chicken, and canned veggies (hello sodium!!) don't contain spirulina, wheat grass, yacon root, goji berry, acai, flax, etc. I'd rather may more and keep the garbage out of my temple.

    We have tax here too. Even for a couple of dollars more for a few days of food it comes out to less than the shakes you drink. You do not need spirulina, wheat grass, yacon root, goji berry, acai or flax to lose weight. Several of those are proven to do nothing for you. The vitamins in the shake are not even high quality.
  • BombshellPhoenix
    BombshellPhoenix Posts: 1,693 Member
    ok. I use shakeology daily. This is probably my favorite thing ever. No, its not overpriced. the way I see it, I could either be paying for a bunch of food to make up a breakfast, or I could be paying for this shake. its not junk, its done wonders for me. If you are interested in learning more about it let me know! I'm more than willing to help you figure out if its worth your money!

    A dozen eggs and a package of bacon costs around $5 and covers breakfast for 3 days.
    A package of chicken and several cans of vegetables costs $12 and covers lunch for an entire week.
    A bag of potatoes costs $5 and lasts 3-4 weeks.

    With your beachbody coach discount a single shake costs you $3.32.

    Explain how that isn't over priced.

    I don't know where you live but bacon here costs $5.99 a package, $4.99 if you find it on sale (plus we're one of the states that have sales tax on food, so add in more). Eggs about $2 a package. Eggs bacon, chicken, and canned veggies (hello sodium!!) don't contain spirulina, wheat grass, yacon root, goji berry, acai, flax, etc. I'd rather may more and keep the garbage out of my temple.

    Lmfao:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

    Oh, I'm sorry. I swore off forums until I saw a MLM scheme member actually use this phrase as a means to try and scam someone out of their money. Omg. No, its fine. There will be more gelato and chips for my "temple" then, since yours finds it off limits. I named it "The Temple of Doom"
  • George_Baileys_Ghost
    George_Baileys_Ghost Posts: 1,524 Member
    Not familiar with it. Is it like a sequel to Darren's Dance Grooves?

    tumblr_mhgoh1gLYh1qhonq7o2_250.gif
  • ok. I use shakeology daily. This is probably my favorite thing ever. No, its not overpriced. the way I see it, I could either be paying for a bunch of food to make up a breakfast, or I could be paying for this shake. its not junk, its done wonders for me. If you are interested in learning more about it let me know! I'm more than willing to help you figure out if its worth your money!

    A dozen eggs and a package of bacon costs around $5 and covers breakfast for 3 days.
    A package of chicken and several cans of vegetables costs $12 and covers lunch for an entire week.
    A bag of potatoes costs $5 and lasts 3-4 weeks.

    With your beachbody coach discount a single shake costs you $3.32.

    Explain how that isn't over priced.

    did i ever say it wasn't overpriced? nope i think the cost is absolutely ****ing ridiculous. but it works for ME. im not worried about what works for you. and cans of vegetables are ****ing gross. so no, i don't get those. this shake it what i use. i gave my opinion of it. i am not saying that it would be great for you or the next person. i gave what i personally think. the price works with my meal plan and my program. so if that's not ok with you, then alright, you are entitled to that opinion. im glad you found a system that works for you. but this is me.

    You did say it was not overpriced, which is why I commented on that part (please check the areas I bolded). Also, frozen vegetables and fresh vegetables are nearly the same cost as a can of vegetables.


    And ^^^THIS^^^ is why I love you! :heart:


    *I* HAVE tried Shakeology. I bought the Koolaid and paid the absurd cost. Everyone that thinks it is "delicious" must have very different tastebuds than I do. It was quite gross tasting to me. But, I sucked it up and drank it anyway. It led to horrible gas and digestive issues. Again, I kept drinking it, thinking my body would get used to it. About halfway through my second bag, I realized that it is not my body, but the shake. It is NOT delicious, and it is NOT worth the ridiculous price. A good multivitamin, fresh, healthy fruits and veggies, and watching my calorie intake is working much better for me.
  • tshabliss
    tshabliss Posts: 22 Member
    [/quote]

    Yes I know you coaches are a dime a dozen, and with the OP making this thread she is probably being flooded with messages. It's not hate, it's helping other people not to waste money on a product that is unnecessary. I live a very positive live and luckily for me when I was new on here there were people that posted so I didn't spend money and believe the crap. So if I can help prevent one person from wasting their money on worthless junk, I'll post.
    [/quote]

    and you're completely entitled to that. i don't care. good for you that you met your goals doing whatever you are doing. congrats. but seriously get over it. i wasn't talking to you, nor did i tell her to buy it. i said if she wanted to know more I'd let her know more. maybe don't be so quick to judge
  • HeidiCooksSupper
    HeidiCooksSupper Posts: 3,839 Member
    Oh, OP, hon' ... you've been suckered. That how multi-level-marketing schemes AKA pyramid schemes work. We are all just trying to save you here.
  • _crafty_
    _crafty_ Posts: 1,682 Member
    I'll just sit over here and keep eating my (homemade) egg sandwich covered in cheese every morning for an average price of about $0.75. Oh, and I'll keep dropping clothing sizes while I do it. kthxbye.
  • Hornsby
    Hornsby Posts: 10,322 Member
    ok. I use shakeology daily. This is probably my favorite thing ever. No, its not overpriced. the way I see it, I could either be paying for a bunch of food to make up a breakfast, or I could be paying for this shake. its not junk, its done wonders for me. If you are interested in learning more about it let me know! I'm more than willing to help you figure out if its worth your money!

    You can say it all you want....it's still junk.

    OP, no need to buy that junk.

    you can also say all you want hating on it. but obviously you never tried it so don't know. how about instead of negativity and judging something you wouldn't look twice at just because your "that kind of guy" you let somebody with an honest opinion help out.

    Yes, I am the kind of guy that doesn't fall for scams. Sorry that you are/were. An honest opinion from a coach that sells the product is kind of an oxymoron, no? The FACT is, one does not have to try something to know if it's junk. If you want to make a living scamming people, have at it, but don't get upset when "not so gullible" people try to deter people from making mistakes.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,219 Member

    i just personally don't like canned veggies. i like the frozen stuff. maybe its just personally preference. either way. its what i like. its not overpriced if you learn how to budget stuff. a lot of people say they cant afford shakeology, but are at starbucks every day with a $5 coffee when its just as easy to make it at home. or they go out to eat 4 nights a week when they could cook at home and save a ton of money. I've learned to make it work for me. if you are going to be another person *****ing about the way i do things then save your breath. i was giving an opinion that's it.

    I don't care how you do things. I was pointing out that if someone cooks their own food they would have to spend extra money per meal on Shakeology, which makes it overpriced.
  • GiveMeCoffee
    GiveMeCoffee Posts: 3,556 Member

    Yes I know you coaches are a dime a dozen, and with the OP making this thread she is probably being flooded with messages. It's not hate, it's helping other people not to waste money on a product that is unnecessary. I live a very positive live and luckily for me when I was new on here there were people that posted so I didn't spend money and believe the crap. So if I can help prevent one person from wasting their money on worthless junk, I'll post.
    and you're completely entitled to that. i don't care. good for you that you met your goals doing whatever you are doing. congrats. but seriously get over it. i wasn't talking to you, nor did i tell her to buy it. i said if she wanted to know more I'd let her know more. maybe don't be so quick to judge

    Well thank you for permission to be entitled to my opinion, I appreciate it. Now you are speaking in a public forum, making claims that you can't even keep straight from post to post. It's not overpriced, it is overpriced. I will also state my opinion and judge when I think someone is selling a substandard unnecessary product.
  • tshabliss
    tshabliss Posts: 22 Member
    [/quote]

    Yes, I am the kind of guy that doesn't fall for scams. Sorry that you are/were. An honest opinion from a coach that sells the product is kind of an oxymoron, no? The FACT is, one does not have to try something to know if it's junk. If you want to make a living scamming people, have at it, but don't get upset when "not so gullible" people try to deter people from making mistakes.
    [/quote]

    you think I make a living doing this?!?! you are sadly mistaken sir
  • tshabliss
    tshabliss Posts: 22 Member

    Yes I know you coaches are a dime a dozen, and with the OP making this thread she is probably being flooded with messages. It's not hate, it's helping other people not to waste money on a product that is unnecessary. I live a very positive live and luckily for me when I was new on here there were people that posted so I didn't spend money and believe the crap. So if I can help prevent one person from wasting their money on worthless junk, I'll post.
    and you're completely entitled to that. i don't care. good for you that you met your goals doing whatever you are doing. congrats. but seriously get over it. i wasn't talking to you, nor did i tell her to buy it. i said if she wanted to know more I'd let her know more. maybe don't be so quick to judge

    congrats....I still don't care

    Well thank you for permission to be entitled to my opinion, I appreciate it. Now you are speaking in a public forum, making claims that you can't even keep straight from post to post. It's not overpriced, it is overpriced. I will also state my opinion and judge when I think someone is selling a substandard unnecessary product.
  • a_stronger_me13
    a_stronger_me13 Posts: 812 Member

    Yes I know you coaches are a dime a dozen, and with the OP making this thread she is probably being flooded with messages. It's not hate, it's helping other people not to waste money on a product that is unnecessary. I live a very positive live and luckily for me when I was new on here there were people that posted so I didn't spend money and believe the crap. So if I can help prevent one person from wasting their money on worthless junk, I'll post.
    and you're completely entitled to that. i don't care. good for you that you met your goals doing whatever you are doing. congrats. but seriously get over it. i wasn't talking to you, nor did i tell her to buy it. i said if she wanted to know more I'd let her know more. maybe don't be so quick to judge

    congrats....I still don't care

    Well thank you for permission to be entitled to my opinion, I appreciate it. Now you are speaking in a public forum, making claims that you can't even keep straight from post to post. It's not overpriced, it is overpriced. I will also state my opinion and judge when I think someone is selling a substandard unnecessary product.

    Please learn how to properly use the quoting feature. You're making quite a mess of this very intriguing debate.