Am I under eating?

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My current stats:
31 year old Male
190 - 195 lbs Body Fat % 23.3ish
Strength Training(1 hr) x 3 week (20-30 mins cardio after)
Cardio 60 Minutes (1 hr) x 3 week (use HRM and eat back calories)

Goal - 15% body fat - 185lbs

I've been eating at a 1 lb /week deficit based on MFPs recommendation, which is 1780 calories.

While I've been seeing some awesome strength gains (I was a total lifting newb) and I can fit into old high school clothes, my belly fat is stubborn :-(

I've begun toying with the idea of either a bigger deficit or perhaps I've hit a strong plateau and need to change something up?

I haven't seen the scale dropping nearly as fast as before I started lifting(been at it just over 6 weeks). When I search my tdee and look at the -20 method it's a much bigger # of calories per day (2204)... so I'm wondering if I'm actually under eating?

Any suggestions interwebz?
«1

Replies

  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,392 MFP Moderator
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    it's not uncommon to drop more weight when you only cardio it up, that is because you tend to lose muscle mass. The advantage to weight training is it minimizes muscle loss. And as you get leaner, you will want to minimize the deficit to also help get all the nutrients you need and maintain lean body mass.

    Anyways, do you use a food scale, can you open your food diary? It's possible since you eat back exercise calories, you are over estimating calories burned.



    BTW, if you want to be 15% body fat and maintain your current lean body mass (about 150lb), your goal weight will be around 177.


    As a reference, I am 31, 5'11, 180 and workout 5-6 hours a week and lose 1 lb per week at 2400 ish calories per day.
  • markjacobs1987
    markjacobs1987 Posts: 162 Member
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    1780 calories is low for a male. You shouldn't be eating any less than 1800 calories a day. Ideally for losing weight you should be eating at around 2200 for starting out with the fat shredder macro of 50% protein, 30% carbs, 20% fats. If you get to a plateau (which eventually you will) you will have nowhere to cut from at 1780-1800 calories. Try bumping it up a little bit every 2-3 weeks to build your metabolism back up. I'd recommend to start eating at 2000 calories for 3 weeks with the fat shredder macro and see how that works for you.
  • mrloserpunk
    mrloserpunk Posts: 92 Member
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    I do use a food scale, although I've had to do quick adds for some recent vacations. I thought my diary was open, let me check it and open it.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,392 MFP Moderator
    Options
    I do use a food scale, although I've had to do quick adds for some recent vacations. I thought my diary was open, let me check it and open it.


    here is the link in case you need it.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/diary_settings
  • DeguelloTex
    DeguelloTex Posts: 6,658 Member
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    1780 calories is low for a male. You shouldn't be eating any less than 1800 calories a day. Ideally for losing weight you should be eating at around 2200 for starting out with the fat shredder macro of 50% protein, 30% carbs, 20% fats. If you get to a plateau (which eventually you will) you will have nowhere to cut from at 1780-1800 calories. Try bumping it up a little bit every 2-3 weeks to build your metabolism back up. I'd recommend to start eating at 2000 calories for 3 weeks with the fat shredder macro and see how that works for you.
    Eat more to lose more? Seems pretty unlikely.
  • mrloserpunk
    mrloserpunk Posts: 92 Member
    Options
    1780 calories is low for a male. You shouldn't be eating any less than 1800 calories a day. Ideally for losing weight you should be eating at around 2200 for starting out with the fat shredder macro of 50% protein, 30% carbs, 20% fats. If you get to a plateau (which eventually you will) you will have nowhere to cut from at 1780-1800 calories. Try bumping it up a little bit every 2-3 weeks to build your metabolism back up. I'd recommend to start eating at 2000 calories for 3 weeks with the fat shredder macro and see how that works for you.

    This is kinda what I was thinking I'd hear. Would you just up it right to 2k? Or move 100 a week? I'm not overly worried about the scale going up while my body sorts it out, cause I started at 270 lbs a year and a half ago!!! I know I can correct it :-)

    That protein % scares me... I've tried hitting 30% daily for a bit and continually fail :-( maybe it's due to the low calorie goal....
  • mrloserpunk
    mrloserpunk Posts: 92 Member
    Options
    I do use a food scale, although I've had to do quick adds for some recent vacations. I thought my diary was open, let me check it and open it.


    here is the link in case you need it.

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/account/diary_settings

    Opened. I get that the beers don't help but if it fits! :-)
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,392 MFP Moderator
    Options
    First, you don't need to do 50% protein. It's completely unnecessary and will not help you lose fat. You just need to hit .8-1g of proteins per lb of lean body mass. So hitting 150g of protein or slightly less is perfect.


    The thing is, you aren't eating 1780 calories, you are probably more like 2600-2850 based on a lot of your days. At this point, i would switch to the TDEE - 20% method and eat the same calories daily. Set your account to 2200 calories and do about 40% carbs, 25% protein and 35% fats (if you want, you can do 40/30/30). Use your food scale for as much if not everything. Log daily and do not use quick adds and do not eat back exercise calories. Cutting out beer will just help give you more room for food. If you hit your protein goal and have a little extra room, you can incorporate alcohol. It won't affect fat loss or anything.
  • acorsaut89
    acorsaut89 Posts: 1,147 Member
    Options
    it's not uncommon to drop more weight when you only cardio it up, that is because you tend to lose muscle mass. The advantage to weight training is it minimizes muscle loss. And as you get leaner, you will want to minimize the deficit to also help get all the nutrients you need and maintain lean body mass.

    No, no, no and no - you lose muscle mass if you're a) seriously undereating, b) if you're bed-ridden (also known as muscle atrophy), c) may have an illness that contributes to this or d) a combination of the above. If you're doing cardio only, or you're workouts are cardio-heavy, you WILL NOT lose muscle mass. You won't gain any, but you won't lose any.You lose more weight during cardio because it burns huge amounts of calories (usually) while lifting/body building doesn't burn quickly, it takes longer. You're building muscle you will use daily now, but the muscle is what will keep you fit so you don't have to do hour or two hour long cardio sessions 4 times a week - muscle keeps you fit because it burns more calories, even at rest. So by building muscle, you're gaining Lean Body Mass but my only doing cardio, you're simply using up energy (calories).

    Cardio burns calories for today so if you have a lot of weight to lose, which it sounds like you don't, you won't see a whole lot of change with your muscle mass because cardio is really only using up calories (energy). If you want to gain muscle mass, increase your weight traing and consider something like heavy lifting if you want to bulk. I am on the heavier side and I switch things up . . . I have a lot of muscle underneath because, well, it takes a lot of muscle to carry around the weight I used to be, but when I do cardio I burn more calories because of the muscle I also have. The more muscle you have, the more calories you burn daily (including while at rest).

    Please don't list to this poster if he/she thinks you lose muscle mass during cardio, you don't. You can live your whole life, doing normal every day things, and not lose muscle. You only lose the muscle when you undereat (this is also referred to as losing lean body mass or LBM) or you're sick and bedridden for months and your muscles go into atrophy from not using them. Simply put, the only way to really, actually lose muscle mass is to not use it. For example, I have a lot of friends who are runners. They don't do a lot of weight training because the way weight training works your muscles and the way they need their muscles for running are different. Does this mean they don't have any muscle mass? Are they just skin and bones? No, they have muscles - their legs are INCREDIBLE - but they just haven't bulked because it isn't appropriate for their chosen sport. It depends on what you want, but you definitely WILL NOT lose muscles just by doing cardio. If you're a runner, you might actually help to work your core (stabilizer) and some of your leg muscles by running.
  • mrloserpunk
    mrloserpunk Posts: 92 Member
    Options
    First, you don't need to do 50% protein. It's completely unnecessary and will not help you lose fat. You just need to hit .8-1g of proteins per lb of lean body mass. So hitting 150g of protein or slightly less is perfect.


    The thing is, you aren't eating 1780 calories, you are probably more like 2600-2850 based on a lot of your days. At this point, i would switch to the TDEE - 20% method and eat the same calories daily. Set your account to 2200 calories and do about 40% carbs, 25% protein and 35% fats (if you want, you can do 40/30/30). Use your food scale for as much if not everything. Log daily and do not use quick adds and do not eat back exercise calories. Cutting out beer will just help give you more room for food. If you hit your protein goal and have a little extra room, you can incorporate alcohol. It won't affect fat loss or anything.

    I had a vacation and a wedding in august so I ended up quick adding. When I returned from it and let the water weight get back to normal I was within .5 of my pre vacation weight. The MFP goal is net and that's what I've been doing. Eating back calories burned from cardio. To be clear the tdee method is a straight number regardless of exercise right?
  • mrloserpunk
    mrloserpunk Posts: 92 Member
    Options
    it's not uncommon to drop more weight when you only cardio it up, that is because you tend to lose muscle mass. The advantage to weight training is it minimizes muscle loss. And as you get leaner, you will want to minimize the deficit to also help get all the nutrients you need and maintain lean body mass.

    No, no, no and no - you lose muscle mass if you're a) seriously undereating, b) if you're bed-ridden (also known as muscle atrophy), c) may have an illness that contributes to this or d) a combination of the above. If you're doing cardio only, or you're workouts are cardio-heavy, you WILL NOT lose muscle mass. You won't gain any, but you won't lose any.You lose more weight during cardio because it burns huge amounts of calories (usually) while lifting/body building doesn't burn quickly, it takes longer. You're building muscle you will use daily now, but the muscle is what will keep you fit so you don't have to do hour or two hour long cardio sessions 4 times a week - muscle keeps you fit because it burns more calories, even at rest. So by building muscle, you're gaining Lean Body Mass but my only doing cardio, you're simply using up energy (calories).

    Cardio burns calories for today so if you have a lot of weight to lose, which it sounds like you don't, you won't see a whole lot of change with your muscle mass because cardio is really only using up calories (energy). If you want to gain muscle mass, increase your weight traing and consider something like heavy lifting if you want to bulk. I am on the heavier side and I switch things up . . . I have a lot of muscle underneath because, well, it takes a lot of muscle to carry around the weight I used to be, but when I do cardio I burn more calories because of the muscle I also have. The more muscle you have, the more calories you burn daily (including while at rest).

    Please don't list to this poster if he/she thinks you lose muscle mass during cardio, you don't. You can live your whole life, doing normal every day things, and not lose muscle. You only lose the muscle when you undereat (this is also referred to as losing lean body mass or LBM) or you're sick and bedridden for months and your muscles go into atrophy from not using them. Simply put, the only way to really, actually lose muscle mass is to not use it. For example, I have a lot of friends who are runners. They don't do a lot of weight training because the way weight training works your muscles and the way they need their muscles for running are different. Does this mean they don't have any muscle mass? Are they just skin and bones? No, they have muscles - their legs are INCREDIBLE - but they just haven't bulked because it isn't appropriate for their chosen sport. It depends on what you want, but you definitely WILL NOT lose muscles just by doing cardio. If you're a runner, you might actually help to work your core (stabilizer) and some of your leg muscles by running.

    I appreciate your response. I lost 65-70 lbs by doing pretty much only cardio. Mainly running. I enlisted a trainer to show me the ropes of lifting and help me create a routine. I specifically asked him about the cardio and muscle loss, his response was unless I planned on being a pro bodybuilder(I don't lol), any muscle loss that would occur from cardio would easily be countered by the muscle stress of my 3day a week routine. Basically he said run to your hearts content, just don't do it first thing during lifting days and to make sure I'm eating enough calories to keep me energized for lifting sessions.
  • acorsaut89
    acorsaut89 Posts: 1,147 Member
    Options
    it's not uncommon to drop more weight when you only cardio it up, that is because you tend to lose muscle mass. The advantage to weight training is it minimizes muscle loss. And as you get leaner, you will want to minimize the deficit to also help get all the nutrients you need and maintain lean body mass.

    No, no, no and no - you lose muscle mass if you're a) seriously undereating, b) if you're bed-ridden (also known as muscle atrophy), c) may have an illness that contributes to this or d) a combination of the above. If you're doing cardio only, or you're workouts are cardio-heavy, you WILL NOT lose muscle mass. You won't gain any, but you won't lose any.You lose more weight during cardio because it burns huge amounts of calories (usually) while lifting/body building doesn't burn quickly, it takes longer. You're building muscle you will use daily now, but the muscle is what will keep you fit so you don't have to do hour or two hour long cardio sessions 4 times a week - muscle keeps you fit because it burns more calories, even at rest. So by building muscle, you're gaining Lean Body Mass but my only doing cardio, you're simply using up energy (calories).

    Cardio burns calories for today so if you have a lot of weight to lose, which it sounds like you don't, you won't see a whole lot of change with your muscle mass because cardio is really only using up calories (energy). If you want to gain muscle mass, increase your weight traing and consider something like heavy lifting if you want to bulk. I am on the heavier side and I switch things up . . . I have a lot of muscle underneath because, well, it takes a lot of muscle to carry around the weight I used to be, but when I do cardio I burn more calories because of the muscle I also have. The more muscle you have, the more calories you burn daily (including while at rest).

    Please don't list to this poster if he/she thinks you lose muscle mass during cardio, you don't. You can live your whole life, doing normal every day things, and not lose muscle. You only lose the muscle when you undereat (this is also referred to as losing lean body mass or LBM) or you're sick and bedridden for months and your muscles go into atrophy from not using them. Simply put, the only way to really, actually lose muscle mass is to not use it. For example, I have a lot of friends who are runners. They don't do a lot of weight training because the way weight training works your muscles and the way they need their muscles for running are different. Does this mean they don't have any muscle mass? Are they just skin and bones? No, they have muscles - their legs are INCREDIBLE - but they just haven't bulked because it isn't appropriate for their chosen sport. It depends on what you want, but you definitely WILL NOT lose muscles just by doing cardio. If you're a runner, you might actually help to work your core (stabilizer) and some of your leg muscles by running.

    I appreciate your response. I lost 65-70 lbs by doing pretty much only cardio. Mainly running. I enlisted a trainer to show me the ropes of lifting and help me create a routine. I specifically asked him about the cardio and muscle loss, his response was unless I planned on being a pro bodybuilder(I don't lol), any muscle loss that would occur from cardio would easily be countered by the muscle stress of my 3day a week routine. Basically he said run to your hearts content, just don't do it first thing during lifting days and to make sure I'm eating enough calories to keep me energized for lifting sessions.

    I still don't see from all the research I've done for my own personal goals - which I'm sure are much different than yours - how you'd lose muscle during cardio. I have a system of things: January - April, I lift with minimal cardio, May - August I do nothing but cardio and then September - December I do 3 days cardio/3 days lifting and after each section I do a weigh in. I didn't drop any muscle mass (granted I didn't gain any) but I did see a positive change in my LBM but that's solely related to the amount of fat dropping off. I have never experienced losing muscle from cardio - I know men and women are different, though.

    However, if you're trainer is advising of this then maybe it is true. They're the professionals, it just doesn't fit with what I've experienced.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,392 MFP Moderator
    Options
    it's not uncommon to drop more weight when you only cardio it up, that is because you tend to lose muscle mass. The advantage to weight training is it minimizes muscle loss. And as you get leaner, you will want to minimize the deficit to also help get all the nutrients you need and maintain lean body mass.

    No, no, no and no - you lose muscle mass if you're a) seriously undereating, b) if you're bed-ridden (also known as muscle atrophy), c) may have an illness that contributes to this or d) a combination of the above. If you're doing cardio only, or you're workouts are cardio-heavy, you WILL NOT lose muscle mass. You won't gain any, but you won't lose any.You lose more weight during cardio because it burns huge amounts of calories (usually) while lifting/body building doesn't burn quickly, it takes longer. You're building muscle you will use daily now, but the muscle is what will keep you fit so you don't have to do hour or two hour long cardio sessions 4 times a week - muscle keeps you fit because it burns more calories, even at rest. So by building muscle, you're gaining Lean Body Mass but my only doing cardio, you're simply using up energy (calories).

    Cardio burns calories for today so if you have a lot of weight to lose, which it sounds like you don't, you won't see a whole lot of change with your muscle mass because cardio is really only using up calories (energy). If you want to gain muscle mass, increase your weight traing and consider something like heavy lifting if you want to bulk. I am on the heavier side and I switch things up . . . I have a lot of muscle underneath because, well, it takes a lot of muscle to carry around the weight I used to be, but when I do cardio I burn more calories because of the muscle I also have. The more muscle you have, the more calories you burn daily (including while at rest).

    Please don't list to this poster if he/she thinks you lose muscle mass during cardio, you don't. You can live your whole life, doing normal every day things, and not lose muscle. You only lose the muscle when you undereat (this is also referred to as losing lean body mass or LBM) or you're sick and bedridden for months and your muscles go into atrophy from not using them. Simply put, the only way to really, actually lose muscle mass is to not use it. For example, I have a lot of friends who are runners. They don't do a lot of weight training because the way weight training works your muscles and the way they need their muscles for running are different. Does this mean they don't have any muscle mass? Are they just skin and bones? No, they have muscles - their legs are INCREDIBLE - but they just haven't bulked because it isn't appropriate for their chosen sport. It depends on what you want, but you definitely WILL NOT lose muscles just by doing cardio. If you're a runner, you might actually help to work your core (stabilizer) and some of your leg muscles by running.


    Any time a person is trying to lose weight, regardless of their training routine, they will lose lean body mass. A person who is lean does not need to carry as much muscle as a person who is obese. If you honestly think that you will maintain all your muscle during a large weight loss, you are mistaken. And I can guarantee you, that if you got a body fat analysis done today vise when you lose the 80 lbs, your overall lean body mass will decrease. Muscle is very inefficient so it requires a lot of calories to maintain.


    Also, there are very few people that can actually gain new lean body mass while they are in a catabolic state (deficit). Those that are brand new to weight lifting, those that are obese (more likely morbidly obese) and those that are athletes that are returning. The thing is, those gains diminish quickly; in fact, a person will probably only gain a few lbs of new lean body mass.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,392 MFP Moderator
    Options
    First, you don't need to do 50% protein. It's completely unnecessary and will not help you lose fat. You just need to hit .8-1g of proteins per lb of lean body mass. So hitting 150g of protein or slightly less is perfect.


    The thing is, you aren't eating 1780 calories, you are probably more like 2600-2850 based on a lot of your days. At this point, i would switch to the TDEE - 20% method and eat the same calories daily. Set your account to 2200 calories and do about 40% carbs, 25% protein and 35% fats (if you want, you can do 40/30/30). Use your food scale for as much if not everything. Log daily and do not use quick adds and do not eat back exercise calories. Cutting out beer will just help give you more room for food. If you hit your protein goal and have a little extra room, you can incorporate alcohol. It won't affect fat loss or anything.

    I had a vacation and a wedding in august so I ended up quick adding. When I returned from it and let the water weight get back to normal I was within .5 of my pre vacation weight. The MFP goal is net and that's what I've been doing. Eating back calories burned from cardio. To be clear the tdee method is a straight number regardless of exercise right?

    If you use the TDEE method, exercise is already included, so you would not eat back exercise calories. The only time you would eat more calories is if you do exercise above and beyond that of a normal day. And after 4 to 6 weeks, if you are losing too much weight or the results are not to your likely, you can modify your intake. For the most part, this is all trial and error. I suggest the TDEE method because it's a bit easier to figure out your maintenance calories.
  • mrloserpunk
    mrloserpunk Posts: 92 Member
    Options
    it's not uncommon to drop more weight when you only cardio it up, that is because you tend to lose muscle mass. The advantage to weight training is it minimizes muscle loss. And as you get leaner, you will want to minimize the deficit to also help get all the nutrients you need and maintain lean body mass.

    No, no, no and no - you lose muscle mass if you're a) seriously undereating, b) if you're bed-ridden (also known as muscle atrophy), c) may have an illness that contributes to this or d) a combination of the above. If you're doing cardio only, or you're workouts are cardio-heavy, you WILL NOT lose muscle mass. You won't gain any, but you won't lose any.You lose more weight during cardio because it burns huge amounts of calories (usually) while lifting/body building doesn't burn quickly, it takes longer. You're building muscle you will use daily now, but the muscle is what will keep you fit so you don't have to do hour or two hour long cardio sessions 4 times a week - muscle keeps you fit because it burns more calories, even at rest. So by building muscle, you're gaining Lean Body Mass but my only doing cardio, you're simply using up energy (calories).

    Cardio burns calories for today so if you have a lot of weight to lose, which it sounds like you don't, you won't see a whole lot of change with your muscle mass because cardio is really only using up calories (energy). If you want to gain muscle mass, increase your weight traing and consider something like heavy lifting if you want to bulk. I am on the heavier side and I switch things up . . . I have a lot of muscle underneath because, well, it takes a lot of muscle to carry around the weight I used to be, but when I do cardio I burn more calories because of the muscle I also have. The more muscle you have, the more calories you burn daily (including while at rest).

    Please don't list to this poster if he/she thinks you lose muscle mass during cardio, you don't. You can live your whole life, doing normal every day things, and not lose muscle. You only lose the muscle when you undereat (this is also referred to as losing lean body mass or LBM) or you're sick and bedridden for months and your muscles go into atrophy from not using them. Simply put, the only way to really, actually lose muscle mass is to not use it. For example, I have a lot of friends who are runners. They don't do a lot of weight training because the way weight training works your muscles and the way they need their muscles for running are different. Does this mean they don't have any muscle mass? Are they just skin and bones? No, they have muscles - their legs are INCREDIBLE - but they just haven't bulked because it isn't appropriate for their chosen sport. It depends on what you want, but you definitely WILL NOT lose muscles just by doing cardio. If you're a runner, you might actually help to work your core (stabilizer) and some of your leg muscles by running.


    Any time a person is trying to lose weight, regardless of their training routine, they will lose lean body mass. A person who is lean does not need to carry as much muscle as a person who is obese. If you honestly think that you will maintain all your muscle during a large weight loss, you are mistaken. And I can guarantee you, that if you got a body fat analysis done today vise when you lose the 80 lbs, your overall lean body mass will decrease. Muscle is very inefficient so it requires a lot of calories to maintain.


    Also, there are very few people that can actually gain new lean body mass while they are in a catabolic state (deficit). Those that are brand new to weight lifting, those that are obese (more likely morbidly obese) and those that are athletes that are returning. The thing is, those gains diminish quickly; in fact, a person will probably only gain a few lbs of new lean body mass.

    See this is exactly what I've been pondering. As great as my trainer has been with showing me form and the work outs, he isn't a nutritionalist and I appreciate that he doesn't pretend to be one.

    I can decrease body fat % in 2 ways right? Lose the fat or gain muscle. Losing just fat isn't gonna give me the body I want. I love lifting and I have a great plan for it. I think imma give 2200 without eating back all my calculated calorie burns a spin. But that's still in a deficit. Since I'm a lifting newb, the results I've gotten so far are going to start to dwindle... Thoughts on what % body fat one should look at stopping the cut? Is that just personal preference? Would lifting regularly and at maintainence help reduce the belly roll even if the scale doesn't drop?
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,392 MFP Moderator
    Options
    See this is exactly what I've been pondering. As great as my trainer has been with showing me form and the work outs, he isn't a nutritionalist and I appreciate that he doesn't pretend to be one.

    I can decrease body fat % in 2 ways right? Lose the fat or gain muscle. Losing just fat isn't gonna give me the body I want. I love lifting and I have a great plan for it. I think imma give 2200 without eating back all my calculated calorie burns a spin. But that's still in a deficit. Since I'm a lifting newb, the results I've gotten so far are going to start to dwindle... Thoughts on what % body fat one should look at stopping the cut? Is that just personal preference? Would lifting regularly and at maintainence help reduce the belly roll even if the scale doesn't drop?

    Since you are a fairly lean individual, even if you do happen to gain some new lean body mass, it won't be outside of a few lbs. If you want to look ripped or cut, you will probably need to get near 10% body fat or into the single digits, especially if your predispositioned to storing your fat in your stomach. You have very similar stats as me, so 2200 calories is probably about right in terms of losing fat and maintenance is probably near 2800 calories. But like i noted before, give it a try for 4 to 6 weeks to see what kind of results you have. At 23% body fat, I wouldn't advise trying to bulk. If you bulk now, you will be adding additional fat too, which will prolong the time needed to achieve the body you want. Once you get down to 10% or lower body fat, and don't like your look, then a bulk could be considered.

    In terms of eating at maintenance and lifting, you can achieve some recomposition but it's a very slow process and not ideal for a person who is at your body fat %. I worked with a women who cut from 26% body fat to 14.6% body fat (confirmed through a hydrostatic body fat analyzer) through a recomp and it took just over a year to achieve that. But she also was very meticulous with her logging and dedication.
  • mrloserpunk
    mrloserpunk Posts: 92 Member
    Options
    See this is exactly what I've been pondering. As great as my trainer has been with showing me form and the work outs, he isn't a nutritionalist and I appreciate that he doesn't pretend to be one.

    I can decrease body fat % in 2 ways right? Lose the fat or gain muscle. Losing just fat isn't gonna give me the body I want. I love lifting and I have a great plan for it. I think imma give 2200 without eating back all my calculated calorie burns a spin. But that's still in a deficit. Since I'm a lifting newb, the results I've gotten so far are going to start to dwindle... Thoughts on what % body fat one should look at stopping the cut? Is that just personal preference? Would lifting regularly and at maintainence help reduce the belly roll even if the scale doesn't drop?

    Since you are a fairly lean individual, even if you do happen to gain some new lean body mass, it won't be outside of a few lbs. If you want to look ripped or cut, you will probably need to get near 10% body fat or into the single digits, especially if your predispositioned to storing your fat in your stomach. You have very similar stats as me, so 2200 calories is probably about right in terms of losing fat and maintenance is probably near 2800 calories. But like i noted before, give it a try for 4 to 6 weeks to see what kind of results you have. At 23% body fat, I wouldn't advise trying to bulk. If you bulk now, you will be adding additional fat too, which will prolong the time needed to achieve the body you want. Once you get down to 10% or lower body fat, and don't like your look, then a bulk could be considered.

    In terms of eating at maintenance and lifting, you can achieve some recomposition but it's a very slow process and not ideal for a person who is at your body fat %. I worked with a women who cut from 26% body fat to 14.6% body fat (confirmed through a hydrostatic body fat analyzer) through a recomp and it took just over a year to achieve that. But she also was very meticulous with her logging and dedication.

    So I was looking at my net cals vs gross and my HRM, and that 2200 number seems awfully low. The 1750 number is net. So, at 2200 we are talking just shy of every work out running about 500 calories. On my lifting days (1 hour) I aim for at least 250 calories burned in after lifting cardio. On my cardio days anything shy of 600 is a baddddd day. Now granted my HRM can be 15-20% off as it doesn't have vo2( hunny if your reading this wink wink Xmas aaaachooo) but that's a far cry from 2200 averaged each day. I guess that's what kinda has me baffled... The tdee calculator doesn't ask about work out intensity, doesn't ask about length of workout nor give advice on how to adjust for bigggg CardiOH! days......

    Could you see my caloric burns thru my diary? I don't think even at 2lbs a week target with MFP settings it had me eating as little as 2200 net with my workouts.... Am I over thinking this?
  • haildodger
    haildodger Posts: 181 Member
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    When in doubt watch the scale. If you're shooting for a pound a week loss, then it's pretty simple math. If you lose 2lbs that week then add 3500 more calories to your diet over the next week. Regardless of your goal, you can adjust your intake based on your weigh ins. Just remember one pound equals 3500 calories and work it from there.
  • psuLemon
    psuLemon Posts: 38,392 MFP Moderator
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    See this is exactly what I've been pondering. As great as my trainer has been with showing me form and the work outs, he isn't a nutritionalist and I appreciate that he doesn't pretend to be one.

    I can decrease body fat % in 2 ways right? Lose the fat or gain muscle. Losing just fat isn't gonna give me the body I want. I love lifting and I have a great plan for it. I think imma give 2200 without eating back all my calculated calorie burns a spin. But that's still in a deficit. Since I'm a lifting newb, the results I've gotten so far are going to start to dwindle... Thoughts on what % body fat one should look at stopping the cut? Is that just personal preference? Would lifting regularly and at maintainence help reduce the belly roll even if the scale doesn't drop?

    Since you are a fairly lean individual, even if you do happen to gain some new lean body mass, it won't be outside of a few lbs. If you want to look ripped or cut, you will probably need to get near 10% body fat or into the single digits, especially if your predispositioned to storing your fat in your stomach. You have very similar stats as me, so 2200 calories is probably about right in terms of losing fat and maintenance is probably near 2800 calories. But like i noted before, give it a try for 4 to 6 weeks to see what kind of results you have. At 23% body fat, I wouldn't advise trying to bulk. If you bulk now, you will be adding additional fat too, which will prolong the time needed to achieve the body you want. Once you get down to 10% or lower body fat, and don't like your look, then a bulk could be considered.

    In terms of eating at maintenance and lifting, you can achieve some recomposition but it's a very slow process and not ideal for a person who is at your body fat %. I worked with a women who cut from 26% body fat to 14.6% body fat (confirmed through a hydrostatic body fat analyzer) through a recomp and it took just over a year to achieve that. But she also was very meticulous with her logging and dedication.

    So I was looking at my net cals vs gross and my HRM, and that 2200 number seems awfully low. The 1750 number is net. So, at 2200 we are talking just shy of every work out running about 500 calories. On my lifting days (1 hour) I aim for at least 250 calories burned in after lifting cardio. On my cardio days anything shy of 600 is a baddddd day. Now granted my HRM can be 15-20% off as it doesn't have vo2( hunny if your reading this wink wink Xmas aaaachooo) but that's a far cry from 2200 averaged each day. I guess that's what kinda has me baffled... The tdee calculator doesn't ask about work out intensity, doesn't ask about length of workout nor give advice on how to adjust for bigggg CardiOH! days......

    Could you see my caloric burns thru my diary? I don't think even at 2lbs a week target with MFP settings it had me eating as little as 2200 net with my workouts.... Am I over thinking this?

    You are definitely over thinking this, but you are also under a false assumption that a HRM is accurate for anything other than steady state cardio. I don't like the concept of net calories because it assumes that you can accurately measure calories burned. And unless you have very high tech equipment, it's not that easy. Yes body media/hrm can give you a general understand and some find them beneficial to their journey, i find them unnecessary.
  • mrloserpunk
    mrloserpunk Posts: 92 Member
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    For what it's worth, recently had my body fat % checked using one of those hand held thingies. Certainly not the most accurate, but it showed me going from 23.3 to 18.7 over the span of a few months :-) that's the same way I got the 23.3 number.

    I've adjust to 2200 pretty well, although there have been a few days after pushing it at the gym, that by bed time, I'm starting to get hunger grouchy.

    Thanks again for the advice :-) it's gotten me past my little plateau and the scale has moved down too!! :-)