5/3/1 - do you start at the beginning?
micheleb15
Posts: 1,418 Member
Probably a dumb question. I have been lifting for a while now and having some cartilage issues in my knees which is causing swelling. I'm switching from 5x5 back to 5/3/1 for less repetition. I have done it before, but honestly it didn't feel like enough work. Looking at strstd.com and the workouts for the first 4 weeks seem super light. I know it will get harder once I get farther in the program, but when you are used to squatting almost 200 lbs for 5x5, it feels odd to start so low again and by week 3 only be at 150 for 3 reps. Do you start at a higher percentage or just follow the program and shut up?
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Replies
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Start higher. Why do light weight workout when 5,3,1 is a heavy workout.0
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I started with my real ORMs that I had tested a few months prior to switching programs. I think the first cycle was only moderately heavy, but that worked well since I was still trying to figure it out. After that, it got heavy. I'm not sure why you'd drop all the way back to 150 lbs....maybe I missed something when I read the book.
ETA: Set 1 135 lbs x 5 150 lbs x 3 160 lbs x 5 85 lbs x 5
Set 2 160 lbs x 5 170 lbs x 3 180 lbs x 3 105 lbs x 5
Set 3 180 lbs x 5+ 190 lbs x 3+ 200 lbs x 1+ 125 lbs x 5
^^According to that, based on a 5 rep squat at 200 pounds, your week 3 is 3x150/3x170/3+x190. So, I guess I'm still not quite sure what the issue is.0 -
I just follow the program. I don't worry about the percentages being too light because the last set is all out as many as you can do. If you really blow that set out you will be crying and you won't be thinking about the two lighter sets before it. Then you have your auxiliary sets to do afterward that should tax you as well.0
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I'd start higher.
I'm facing a fairly similar problem- I'm actually considering running starting strength just to do the program- but I'm sure as *kitten* not starting at 45 pound bar- I'm 1 RMP at 225- but I think realistically it's 235.
I don't know how 5/3/1 works in terms of % of your 1RPM- but if it isn't- I'd take a look forward to the end of the program and work backwards to a more realistic starting point.
I did the 20 rep squat breathing program- and that's how it works- it takes your working 5 rep #'s and subtracts 90 pounds I think- 5 pounds for every workout for 3 workouts for 6 weeks- and that's your starting weight- so when I did it- I used 175- and started 95 (I wasn't doing 85- FTS). It sucked for the first week- after that the weight shoots up so quickly I was sad my light weights were gone.0 -
enter your 1RM into strstd.com start from there. but you say that you are having some knee issues... then i guess you need to go light?
i've never really heard anyone say that 5/3/1 is too light. i mean, it's based off of what you can lift. so if it's too light, that means you're entering the numbers wrong... did you not click the button to give you 100% numbers, and not 90%?
5/3/1 is a completely customizable program based off of what you can lift and how you want to lift. want to get a lot of volume and muscular endurance? big but boring. want to work out any imbalances? dave tates periodization bible.0 -
I started with my real ORMs that I had tested a few months prior to switching programs. I think the first cycle was only moderately heavy, but that worked well since I was still trying to figure it out. After that, it got heavy. I'm not sure why you'd drop all the way back to 150 lbs....maybe I missed something when I read the book.
ETA: Set 1 135 lbs x 5 150 lbs x 3 160 lbs x 5 85 lbs x 5
Set 2 160 lbs x 5 170 lbs x 3 180 lbs x 3 105 lbs x 5
Set 3 180 lbs x 5+ 190 lbs x 3+ 200 lbs x 1+ 125 lbs x 5
^^According to that, based on a 5 rep squat at 200 pounds, your week 3 is 3x150/3x170/3+x190. So, I guess I'm still not quite sure what the issue is.
StrStd.com has my week 3 at 130x5, 150x3 and 165x1+. I am currently squatting 195lbs 5x5, so that just seems like a big jump down.0 -
enter your 1RM into strstd.com start from there. but you say that you are having some knee issues... then i guess you need to go light?
i've never really heard anyone say that 5/3/1 is too light. i mean, it's based off of what you can lift. so if it's too light, that means you're entering the numbers wrong... did you not click the button to give you 100% numbers, and not 90%?
5/3/1 is a completely customizable program based off of what you can lift and how you want to lift. want to get a lot of volume and muscular endurance? big but boring. want to work out any imbalances? dave tates periodization bible.
I was only at 90%. That made a big difference, thanks!0 -
enter your 1RM into strstd.com start from there. but you say that you are having some knee issues... then i guess you need to go light?
i've never really heard anyone say that 5/3/1 is too light. i mean, it's based off of what you can lift. so if it's too light, that means you're entering the numbers wrong... did you not click the button to give you 100% numbers, and not 90%?
5/3/1 is a completely customizable program based off of what you can lift and how you want to lift. want to get a lot of volume and muscular endurance? big but boring. want to work out any imbalances? dave tates periodization bible.
I was only at 90%. That made a big difference, thanks!
once i started typing, i figured it was that. i don't know why it automatically defaults to 90% though.
if you're having knee issues, maybe you should do your leg workouts at 90%.0 -
I started with my real ORMs that I had tested a few months prior to switching programs. I think the first cycle was only moderately heavy, but that worked well since I was still trying to figure it out. After that, it got heavy. I'm not sure why you'd drop all the way back to 150 lbs....maybe I missed something when I read the book.
ETA: Set 1 135 lbs x 5 150 lbs x 3 160 lbs x 5 85 lbs x 5
Set 2 160 lbs x 5 170 lbs x 3 180 lbs x 3 105 lbs x 5
Set 3 180 lbs x 5+ 190 lbs x 3+ 200 lbs x 1+ 125 lbs x 5
^^According to that, based on a 5 rep squat at 200 pounds, your week 3 is 3x150/3x170/3+x190. So, I guess I'm still not quite sure what the issue is.
StrStd.com has my week 3 at 130x5, 150x3 and 165x1+. I am currently squatting 195lbs 5x5, so that just seems like a big jump down.
Ok - I was guessing at some of the numbers. I would tweak your ORM until you get that 1+ up around 185ish, and then proceed with the program. I have everything plugged into Excel, making it easy to get the numbers where I want them. Keep in mind though that Wendler is all about progressing slowly. So sometimes it is achingly slow, but the likelihood of stalling is much lower.0 -
I started with my real ORMs that I had tested a few months prior to switching programs. I think the first cycle was only moderately heavy, but that worked well since I was still trying to figure it out. After that, it got heavy. I'm not sure why you'd drop all the way back to 150 lbs....maybe I missed something when I read the book.
ETA: Set 1 135 lbs x 5 150 lbs x 3 160 lbs x 5 85 lbs x 5
Set 2 160 lbs x 5 170 lbs x 3 180 lbs x 3 105 lbs x 5
Set 3 180 lbs x 5+ 190 lbs x 3+ 200 lbs x 1+ 125 lbs x 5
^^According to that, based on a 5 rep squat at 200 pounds, your week 3 is 3x150/3x170/3+x190. So, I guess I'm still not quite sure what the issue is.
StrStd.com has my week 3 at 130x5, 150x3 and 165x1+. I am currently squatting 195lbs 5x5, so that just seems like a big jump down.
Ok - I was guessing at some of the numbers. I would tweak your ORM until you get that 1+ up around 185ish, and then proceed with the program. I have everything plugged into Excel, making it easy to get the numbers where I want them. Keep in mind though that Wendler is all about progressing slowly. So sometimes it is achingly slow, but the likelihood of stalling is much lower.
yup. many people can do 5/3/1 for a long time without stalling.
a progression is a progression no matter what, whether it is by reps or by weight.0 -
enter your 1RM into strstd.com start from there. but you say that you are having some knee issues... then i guess you need to go light?
i've never really heard anyone say that 5/3/1 is too light. i mean, it's based off of what you can lift. so if it's too light, that means you're entering the numbers wrong... did you not click the button to give you 100% numbers, and not 90%?
5/3/1 is a completely customizable program based off of what you can lift and how you want to lift. want to get a lot of volume and muscular endurance? big but boring. want to work out any imbalances? dave tates periodization bible.
I was only at 90%. That made a big difference, thanks!
once i started typing, i figured it was that. i don't know why it automatically defaults to 90% though.
if you're having knee issues, maybe you should do your leg workouts at 90%.
It defaults to 90% because that is how the program is written. You are supposed to calculate your 1 rep max or take your actual tested max and work your numbers based off of 90% of that. The first month will probably feel light compared to what you have been doing, but he states in the book that he wants you to be able to progress as long as possible without stalling. Also, if you have been having knee problems backing off and working your weight slowly back up is probably a good idea. By doing Wendler's you will also be able to add in some accessories that will help work on your knee issues.
Edited to add: your calculated 1 rep max would be 219 lbs and 90% of that is 197.1lbs. That should be the number you base your calculations off of. So the last week of your first month would be 150x5, 170x3 and 190x1 + however many more you can do.0 -
Just to toss this in here. In the past I have found blackironbeast.com to be a useful site for 5/3/1. It has a really nice assortment of various modifications to the program.0
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I'd recommend reading the book. It's a quick read and all the intricacies of why you set it up a certain way and how you do it are tackled.
Like a previous poster said, you base it off 90% of your 1RM - what Wendler calls your working max. You seem to have miscalculated somewhere in order to get your week 3 numbers.0 -
enter your 1RM into strstd.com start from there. but you say that you are having some knee issues... then i guess you need to go light?
i've never really heard anyone say that 5/3/1 is too light. i mean, it's based off of what you can lift. so if it's too light, that means you're entering the numbers wrong... did you not click the button to give you 100% numbers, and not 90%?
5/3/1 is a completely customizable program based off of what you can lift and how you want to lift. want to get a lot of volume and muscular endurance? big but boring. want to work out any imbalances? dave tates periodization bible.
I was only at 90%. That made a big difference, thanks!
once i started typing, i figured it was that. i don't know why it automatically defaults to 90% though.
if you're having knee issues, maybe you should do your leg workouts at 90%.
It defaults to 90% because that is how the program is written. You are supposed to calculate your 1 rep max or take your actual tested max and work your numbers based off of 90% of that. The first month will probably feel light compared to what you have been doing, but he states in the book that he wants you to be able to progress as long as possible without stalling. Also, if you have been having knee problems backing off and working your weight slowly back up is probably a good idea. By doing Wendler's you will also be able to add in some accessories that will help work on your knee issues.
Edited to add: your calculated 1 rep max would be 219 lbs and 90% of that is 197.1lbs. That should be the number you base your calculations off of. So the last week of your first month would be 150x5, 170x3 and 190x1 + however many more you can do.
Yeah, I should have said week 3 not last week of the month. In my head deload doesn't count, lol.0 -
Rather than starting a new thread, I might as well ask here. I'm currently in week 12 of strong lifts 5x5 and the squats every workout are starting to kill my legs, would this be a good program to transition to since its still the same exercises just split up?0
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Rather than starting a new thread, I might as well ask here. I'm currently in week 12 of strong lifts 5x5 and the squats every workout are starting to kill my legs, would this be a good program to transition to since its still the same exercises just split up?
After you've done a few deloads and the can no longer make linear gains, then an intermediate routine may be suitable. There's no reason you can't do an intermediate routine before you've tapped out your linear gains, but you'll progress much more slowly than you would have otherwise.
So make the choice in the full knowledge of where you are currently and what you are doing when you go on an intermediate routine.0 -
thanks0
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