Is it bad to work out when...

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  • CoachChris78
    CoachChris78 Posts: 30 Member
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    Why don't I need to do the dips?

    Why are squats the single most important exercise?

    Whilst these are different questions they are kind of both the same answer so I'll do them together. I'm also going to try really hard not to waffle on and use jargon too much. I'm going to make it as simple as I can to avoid having to write too much so please don't take offence.

    We have 5 big muscle groups. Shoulders, Chest, Back, Bum and Thighs. When we work a big muscle it has a much bigger hormone response on the body than a little muscle. It also uses far more calories than a little muscle. (this is why the guys in the gym spending hours boing bicep curls but not squatting are idiots).

    Because of the bigger benefits from training the big muscles all strength programs should focus on these. I imagine as a CFS suffer you are aware of spoon theory . It also applies to strenght training. If you only have 10 spoons to use on exercise and it takes 1 spoon to do a push up and 1/2 a spoon to do a dip. Spending the spoons on 10 push ups would use more calories and produce a greater homonal response than 20 dips. Because of the hormonal response the 10 pushups wopuld also have a bigger effect on your triceps than just the 20 dips.

    I really hope this is making sense.

    The reason my a lifting program usually includes more than just the big compound lifts is because you reach a point where you have extra spoons to spend on lifting but your main muscle has fatigued. Then you sopend as many spoons as you can as yopu can on the compound lift and then spend the rest on the smaller muscles.

    for example after doing 9 sets of squats I then move onto leg press, step ups and calf raises. I am amxed out on the amount I can squat but have more spoons to use up at the gym. The other exercises target different bits of my legs to finish that but off.

    As for why squats are the king of exercises it is because of the amount of muscle groups you activate when performing a weighted squat. Your shoulders, back and core get some works and your thighs and bum do the heavy lifting. One rep of a squat can activate the majority of your body, if you consider about what I said before about calories and hormonal response you will see why squats are important.

    Now you won't be sat under a bar so that won't be quite as benificial but you will still be working you thighs, bum and core when done correctly (heels of the floor, chin up, bum nearly to the ground, weight back).

    Squats are hard because of the amount of work required from your body to do one correctly but the pay off in return is far higher than other exercises.

    I think it's a great ised to take it slowly so start with half or quarter squats, they won't be anywhere near as good but as a way of building the strength safely to then move onto a full squat they are a great idea.

    Step ups are also another great exercise to build the strength needed for squats so do a few of them after your 1/4 squats.

    Did I manage to make it understandable?
  • Lottiotta
    Lottiotta Posts: 162 Member
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    Yeah, it does. I'm very dubious about including squats because I tried that and wow was I not ready - I'm going to wait before working those in. Also, I find the dips much easier than the push-ups, so maybe I can start with dips and then when I'm stronger I can take on the push-ups.

    Maybe your form was off.

    @randomtai, how could I check for that? I've been largely bed-bound for 6 years so if I'm finding squats difficult I'm suspecting that it's because I've not used the muscles enough, but I'm open to being corrected on my form!

    Youtube is a good source for videos which show you form. I particularly like the "So You Think You Can Squat" series.


    @randomtai, thanks, I'm watching them now!
  • Lottiotta
    Lottiotta Posts: 162 Member
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    Stretching doesn't help relieve soreness, per se.

    But it does help alleviate risk of injury.

    Pre-Stretching should be avoided, as it loosens muscles and puts them at risk of over-extension.

    Post-Stretching tightened and sore muscles allows your muscles to maintain flexibility. Even if you are new to exercise, this is critical. It won't make you less sore, but that shouldn't be the only reason to do it. It will, however, prevent your newly formed muscles from pulling joints out of sockets.

    "When sorting out all the research on stretching and flexibility for athletes, it's important to remember that the goal of stretching is to develop and maintain an appropriate range of motion around specific joints. It's also important to realize that stretching (or releasing) tight muscles should go hand in hand with strengthening the weak muscles."
    http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/flexibility/a/aa022102a.htm

    For me, I run a high risk of lower back injury. Increasing flexibility in my hamstrings and hips helps prevent this injury from occurring.

    If you feel its difficult to perform an every day action or even your workout routine because of muscle TIGHTNESS (not muscle soreness), then stretch.

    @CLM1227 Ahhhh okay, so it's for tightness and not soreness. That is very useful. Thanks!
  • Lottiotta
    Lottiotta Posts: 162 Member
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    Why don't I need to do the dips?

    Why are squats the single most important exercise?

    Whilst these are different questions they are kind of both the same answer so I'll do them together. I'm also going to try really hard not to waffle on and use jargon too much. I'm going to make it as simple as I can to avoid having to write too much so please don't take offence.

    We have 5 big muscle groups. Shoulders, Chest, Back, Bum and Thighs. When we work a big muscle it has a much bigger hormone response on the body than a little muscle. It also uses far more calories than a little muscle. (this is why the guys in the gym spending hours boing bicep curls but not squatting are idiots).

    Because of the bigger benefits from training the big muscles all strength programs should focus on these. I imagine as a CFS suffer you are aware of spoon theory . It also applies to strenght training. If you only have 10 spoons to use on exercise and it takes 1 spoon to do a push up and 1/2 a spoon to do a dip. Spending the spoons on 10 push ups would use more calories and produce a greater homonal response than 20 dips. Because of the hormonal response the 10 pushups wopuld also have a bigger effect on your triceps than just the 20 dips.

    I really hope this is making sense.

    The reason my a lifting program usually includes more than just the big compound lifts is because you reach a point where you have extra spoons to spend on lifting but your main muscle has fatigued. Then you sopend as many spoons as you can as yopu can on the compound lift and then spend the rest on the smaller muscles.

    for example after doing 9 sets of squats I then move onto leg press, step ups and calf raises. I am amxed out on the amount I can squat but have more spoons to use up at the gym. The other exercises target different bits of my legs to finish that but off.

    As for why squats are the king of exercises it is because of the amount of muscle groups you activate when performing a weighted squat. Your shoulders, back and core get some works and your thighs and bum do the heavy lifting. One rep of a squat can activate the majority of your body, if you consider about what I said before about calories and hormonal response you will see why squats are important.

    Now you won't be sat under a bar so that won't be quite as benificial but you will still be working you thighs, bum and core when done correctly (heels of the floor, chin up, bum nearly to the ground, weight back).

    Squats are hard because of the amount of work required from your body to do one correctly but the pay off in return is far higher than other exercises.

    I think it's a great ised to take it slowly so start with half or quarter squats, they won't be anywhere near as good but as a way of building the strength safely to then move onto a full squat they are a great idea.

    Step ups are also another great exercise to build the strength needed for squats so do a few of them after your 1/4 squats.

    Did I manage to make it understandable?

    @CoachChris78, yeah I think so. I do appreciate you simplifying it all for me, because I am a total noob. :P Yeah if I'm going to do squats I definitely need to start at half- or quarter-squats, because I think a full squat is way too much of a leap. But it's good to know that there is a mini-version, at least. Thank you. :)
  • GingerLolita
    GingerLolita Posts: 738 Member
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    When I'm slightly achy, I power through my workouts anyway. But if you're experiencing serious aches, sometimes you need a rest day and that's ok too. You may want to take it easy that day or do something like yoga.
  • Lottiotta
    Lottiotta Posts: 162 Member
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    Assuming that 1g of protein per 1kg of weight is needed per day means I'm supposed to get 62g protein per day on average - and I think I do. I will double-check though; sometimes it's higher and sometimes it's lower, so I should do some maths.

    Just checked; my average for the past 17 days is 63g of protein per day. I weigh between 62 and 63kg most of the time. Awesome!

    I use different figures and calculations than you. I would aim for a minimum of 0.7g per lb of lean muscle mass. I don't know your %body fat but if you were 20% my calculations would have you eating about 80g of protien a day. I personally aim a 1g per lb so have a target of 180ish grams a day but I'm over 300lbs :-) 1g/lb would put you at about 114 grams a day but that is often quite hard if you are also trying to cut weight.

    It sounds like you're getting it mostly right though, keep going and the strength will come. I know that CFS takes a long time to recover from but getting stronger will ameka big difference.

    I just used a calculator that asked me for my forearm measurement but didn't specify which part of my forearm or in which direction! Sooo, it said 26% but I have no idea if it's accurate...

    Can anyone recommend a good one?
  • MeanderingMammal
    MeanderingMammal Posts: 7,866 Member
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    "some people did stretches after working out, and some people didn't, and it turns out the stretching had no significant effect on whether people felt sore afterwards."

    Feeling sore is one thing, improving performance is something very different.

    @MeanderingMam, could you talk some more about that?

    By stretching while you're muscles are warmed up you progressively increase your range of motion, which helps improve your ability to perform over time. For me, when running or cycling, that leads to lower fatigue for a given level of effort, and a level of resilience that helps conserve energy. As a result I can put more power into the motion, or I can improve my stamina.

    As you're discussing predominantly resistance training the range of motion leads to more opportunity to work the muscles through the fuller range, so optimising the re-growth process.

    That said, I've already alluded to EDS and if that is a condition related to your CFS you do need to be careful about balancing range of motion against connective tissue tension.
  • meshashesha2012
    meshashesha2012 Posts: 8,326 Member
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    "some people did stretches after working out, and some people didn't, and it turns out the stretching had no significant effect on whether people felt sore afterwards."

    Feeling sore is one thing, improving performance is something very different.

    @MeanderingMam, could you talk some more about that?

    maybe because stretching afterwards has no effect on any soreness caused from muscle tears which is what a lot of DOMS is.. you strength train, you tear the muscles, they grow back stronger. post workout static stretching can have great benefit on improving flexibility though, which is eventually going to help your performance since that's will really improve mobility