Women that are lean, under 14%--how do you do it???
VegFit72
Posts: 35 Member
So, I'm a trainer and I know how to work out and eat well but I've never been "ripped" or seen my abs. That is my goal. I'm 42, 5'10" . Body fat on 2 machines reads...22% & 15% big difference so I figure I'm in the middle around 18%. My start weight here and the weight I've maintained for years is about 155. I weight last Sun at 143 and now today at 148. I'm eating pretty clean--no processed foods (an occasional slip). I'm 4 weeks in now and just not seeing much change. I work out 4-6x week. About 4x week strength for about 20-30 min and cardio/cardio intervals 4-6x week for about 20-30 min. I push fairly hard for work outs--but could probably push harder for cardio.
I've seen bodybuilders and fitness models and just wonder how on earth do they get that lean. How is it done? Is it done naturally?
Can anyone out there help the fitness trainer??? Thanks
I've seen bodybuilders and fitness models and just wonder how on earth do they get that lean. How is it done? Is it done naturally?
Can anyone out there help the fitness trainer??? Thanks
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Replies
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Through 10+ years of competitive gymnastics and cheerleading, I fluctuated between 12-14% BF.
ETA: 4 weeks isn't nearly long enough. Give it time.0 -
At 18% BF you'd already start seeing definition. So chances are you are not at 18% BF. Use skinfold tests to get a better estimate.
You attain a lower body fat by tracking macros and calories, making sure you eat enough protein to maintain your lean body mass, and eat at a caloric deficit.
eating clean =/= low body fat. I ate clean and was 145lbs, but very soft.
Your diary isn't open, so can't make any suggestions based on how you eat or how much you eat.
Also chances are you are over-doing it on cardio. Especially if you are doing HIIT or high intensity. Very light cardio post-weights (this LISS) or some cardio on your rest days is more than enough, and will help minimize overtraining and burnout. Both of which could likely affect body composition.
Bodybuilders and fitness models are at unnaturally low body fat levels for specific periods of time, not year round. So it'd be better to figure out a good body fat estimate and then figure out about how much you need to lose to start seeing more definition. This chart may be helpful:
Create a slight deficit, eat back exercise cals (50-75%) if you use MFP net method, and don't push yourself too hard.0 -
I was around 11/12%. Not sure what I am right now as I fell off the wagon a little recently, but I was around that twice, both times for quite long periods. I did not really intentionally aim for it, I ended up there through a lot of intense exercise, and high protein intake, and some inadvertent bulk and cut cycles. My main exercise was boxing, circuits, some weights, cycling, walking, running and elliptical on intervals, full effort.0
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I maintained 14/15% body fat for a while earlier in the year. At the time I was doing 1 hour of heavy cardio 6 days per week & heavy lifting 4 days. I was eating overall at a deficit but eating back all workout cals. Basically just lose weight but keep protein high & use your muscles frequently. That's what worked for me. I've since decided it's not sustainable for me in the long term though! Good luck.
ETA: Further to what Graelwyn said, I think I too had some inadvertent bulk/cut cycles as a result of sporadic binging. Not sure if that helped but possibly did.
ETA2: Extra information: I'm 6'1" and weighed 140lbs when I was most "ripped". BMI was 19.1 to give you an idea.0 -
I just recently did a physique competition (photos in my profile) and came in at around 4.5% via skinfold caliper testing. I can tell you how I did it, but pm me if you want...no one here on MFP wants to hear about any diet that doesn't include Pop Tarts and Ice cream
I don't care to argue with people on the forums anymore. 0 -
I just recently did a physique competition (photos in my profile) and came in at around 4.5% via skinfold caliper testing. I can tell you how I did it, but pm me if you want...no one here on MFP wants to hear about any diet that doesn't include Pop Tarts and Ice cream I don't care to argue with people on the forums anymore.
Um, 4.5% BF in a woman is not possible.0 -
Not everyone can have abs. A big part of it is genetics. Even at 8% body fat my abs don't pop. It's just how I'm built.
You're a guy so your essential body fat is lower. A woman can't realistically get below about 10% without risking organ failure. Pauline Nordin reportedly maintains at that percentage so Google image her to get an idea of what that looks like on a woman. Men can get as low as 3-4% and your abs most definitely will "pop" well before that point (assuming you exercise rather than simply starve yourself to that point) or there's something seriously wrong.
ETA: This link shows various men and women at different body fat levels: http://www.leighpeele.com/body-fat-pictures-and-percentages0 -
4 weeks is not long at all, I didn't start seeing changes until about 6 weeks. I have no idea what my BF is but I can see some of my upper ab muscle, they started showing up after about 4 months of strengh exercising, 3 times a week. No cardio. I ate at a deficit but not a huge one. It's not that hard but you have to be patient.0
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I just recently did a physique competition (photos in my profile) and came in at around 4.5% via skinfold caliper testing. I can tell you how I did it, but pm me if you want...no one here on MFP wants to hear about any diet that doesn't include Pop Tarts and Ice cream I don't care to argue with people on the forums anymore.
Um, 4.5% BF in a woman is not possible.
Yes, it is. Women compete at 4-7% bodyfat all the time. It's not healthy or maintainable. It's a very short-term thing. But to say it's not possible is incorrect. I concede a 3% margin for error, which exists with skinfold caliper testing. I was tested by a professional who works with physique competitors, however there is always a margin for error.
Nevertheless, it is possible, and those who say it isn't possible should get out of the way of those doing it, because unless you've done it, you can't understand how brutal it is to get that lean.0 -
I just recently did a physique competition (photos in my profile) and came in at around 4.5% via skinfold caliper testing. I can tell you how I did it, but pm me if you want...no one here on MFP wants to hear about any diet that doesn't include Pop Tarts and Ice cream I don't care to argue with people on the forums anymore.
Um, 4.5% BF in a woman is not possible.
Yes, it is. Women compete at 4-7% bodyfat all the time. It's not healthy or maintainable. It's a very short-term thing. But to say it's not possible is incorrect. I concede a 3% margin for error, which exists with skinfold caliper testing. I was tested by a professional who works with physique competitors, however there is always a margin for error.
Nevertheless, it is possible, and those who say it isn't possible should get out of the way of those doing it, because unless you've done it, you can't understand how brutal it is to get that lean.
No I don't think they do even for competition...skin fold tests are totally unreliable. Even dexa scans have a 2% margin of error so skinfold tests would have to have a much larger margin.
As for "diet" that doesn't include pop tarts and ice cream...that is quite combative if you ask me....
Even as an Elite athlete and we are talking about Olympic athletes here...Apolo Ohno was at 2.8% BF at 65kg back in 2010.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6650717 and this abstract indicates that even female olympic runners (sprinters/marathon) were at on average 13.7%....so 4.5% for anything but a man who trains extremely hard for the olympics yah the would be a big fat NO.0 -
I just recently did a physique competition (photos in my profile) and came in at around 4.5% via skinfold caliper testing. I can tell you how I did it, but pm me if you want...no one here on MFP wants to hear about any diet that doesn't include Pop Tarts and Ice cream I don't care to argue with people on the forums anymore.
Um, 4.5% BF in a woman is not possible.
Yes, it is. Women compete at 4-7% bodyfat all the time. It's not healthy or maintainable. It's a very short-term thing. But to say it's not possible is incorrect. I concede a 3% margin for error, which exists with skinfold caliper testing. I was tested by a professional who works with physique competitors, however there is always a margin for error.
Nevertheless, it is possible, and those who say it isn't possible should get out of the way of those doing it, because unless you've done it, you can't understand how brutal it is to get that lean.
No I don't think they do even for competition...skin fold tests are totally unreliable. Even dexa scans have a 2% margin of error so skinfold tests would have to have a much larger margin.
As for "diet" that doesn't include pop tarts and ice cream...that is quite combative if you ask me....
Even as an Elite athlete and we are talking about Olympic athletes here...Apolo Ohno was at 2.8% BF at 65kg back in 2010.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6650717 and this abstract indicates that even female olympic runners (sprinters/marathon) were at on average 13.7%....so 4.5% for anything but a man who trains extremely hard for the olympics yah the would be a big fat NO.
^QTF0 -
ETA: This link shows various men and women at different body fat levels: http://www.leighpeele.com/body-fat-pictures-and-percentages
Interesting link!
I prefer the physiques of both the Men and Women with a little more body fat than the really ripped people.
The 10% and 14% Men look good and the 18% and 20% Women look good........in MY opinion.0 -
I just recently did a physique competition (photos in my profile) and came in at around 4.5% via skinfold caliper testing. I can tell you how I did it, but pm me if you want...no one here on MFP wants to hear about any diet that doesn't include Pop Tarts and Ice cream I don't care to argue with people on the forums anymore.
Um, 4.5% BF in a woman is not possible.
Yes, it is. Women compete at 4-7% bodyfat all the time. It's not healthy or maintainable. It's a very short-term thing. But to say it's not possible is incorrect. I concede a 3% margin for error, which exists with skinfold caliper testing. I was tested by a professional who works with physique competitors, however there is always a margin for error.
Nevertheless, it is possible, and those who say it isn't possible should get out of the way of those doing it, because unless you've done it, you can't understand how brutal it is to get that lean.
Like you said, skin fold testing is not reliable.
You weren't 4.5% BF. Sorry.0 -
I just recently did a physique competition (photos in my profile) and came in at around 4.5% via skinfold caliper testing. I can tell you how I did it, but pm me if you want...no one here on MFP wants to hear about any diet that doesn't include Pop Tarts and Ice cream I don't care to argue with people on the forums anymore.
Um, 4.5% BF in a woman is not possible.
Yes, it is. Women compete at 4-7% bodyfat all the time. It's not healthy or maintainable. It's a very short-term thing. But to say it's not possible is incorrect. I concede a 3% margin for error, which exists with skinfold caliper testing. I was tested by a professional who works with physique competitors, however there is always a margin for error.
Nevertheless, it is possible, and those who say it isn't possible should get out of the way of those doing it, because unless you've done it, you can't understand how brutal it is to get that lean.
No I don't think they do even for competition...skin fold tests are totally unreliable. Even dexa scans have a 2% margin of error so skinfold tests would have to have a much larger margin.
As for "diet" that doesn't include pop tarts and ice cream...that is quite combative if you ask me....
Even as an Elite athlete and we are talking about Olympic athletes here...Apolo Ohno was at 2.8% BF at 65kg back in 2010.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6650717 and this abstract indicates that even female olympic runners (sprinters/marathon) were at on average 13.7%....so 4.5% for anything but a man who trains extremely hard for the olympics yah the would be a big fat NO.
^QTF
Yup, yup. Thank you, ma'am.0 -
Not everyone can have abs. A big part of it is genetics. Even at 8% body fat my abs don't pop. It's just how I'm built.
You're a guy so your essential body fat is lower. A woman can't realistically get below about 10% without risking organ failure. Pauline Nordin reportedly maintains at that percentage so Google image her to get an idea of what that looks like on a woman. Men can get as low as 3-4% and your abs most definitely will "pop" well before that point (assuming you exercise rather than simply starve yourself to that point) or there's something seriously wrong.
ETA: This link shows various men and women at different body fat levels: http://www.leighpeele.com/body-fat-pictures-and-percentages
Thanks for that link. I'm thinking most folks have inaccurate belief of what their body fat percentage really is.0 -
So, I'm a trainer and I know how to work out and eat well but I've never been "ripped" or seen my abs. That is my goal. I'm 42, 5'10" . Body fat on 2 machines reads...22% & 15% big difference so I figure I'm in the middle around 18%. My start weight here and the weight I've maintained for years is about 155. I weight last Sun at 143 and now today at 148. I'm eating pretty clean--no processed foods (an occasional slip). I'm 4 weeks in now and just not seeing much change. I work out 4-6x week. About 4x week strength for about 20-30 min and cardio/cardio intervals 4-6x week for about 20-30 min. I push fairly hard for work outs--but could probably push harder for cardio.
I've seen bodybuilders and fitness models and just wonder how on earth do they get that lean. How is it done? Is it done naturally?
Can anyone out there help the fitness trainer??? Thanks
Hi there!
Don't worry too much about those numbers. My bathroom scale shows results between 15 and 25% in the same week.... For me, it's either a variety of skin fold caliper pinches or a Bodpod to get a decent result.... Any method has it's limits...from time of the day, to time of the month, to simply taking a shower before.... Gotta read the small print on the instructions....
Competitive bodybuilders are not role models for a healthy lifestyle, when they get ready to lean out for a show. They are on a deadline, and they are always hungry and increasingly dangerous to be around.......lol
Not kidding, though. Crash diets, water pills, fat burners, you name it, I've seen a lot of it... I have ducked for a low flying dumbbell in the gym, too...
I do, however, admire the discipline, dedication, and hard work, that goes into competition prep. It's brutal. So, even if they do not place, just qualifying to step on the stage is a an accomplishment!
And then there's the age to consider. According to the chart that's posted, and I have the same here at home, I gained 0.6 % just because I had a birthday... The 'pinch' has not changed.... 30 years ago, I would be considered under 12 %....
Out of experience, and I have been at 15% just 2 years ago, now around 17%, it is very VERY difficult to maintain, and a very slow process when you are a little older. On the up side, there's not much cellulite left.....
Whatever you decide for your body fat goal, play it safe! :flowerforyou:0 -
I just recently did a physique competition (photos in my profile) and came in at around 4.5% via skinfold caliper testing. I can tell you how I did it, but pm me if you want...no one here on MFP wants to hear about any diet that doesn't include Pop Tarts and Ice cream I don't care to argue with people on the forums anymore.
Um, 4.5% BF in a woman is not possible.
Yes, it is. Women compete at 4-7% bodyfat all the time. It's not healthy or maintainable. It's a very short-term thing. But to say it's not possible is incorrect. I concede a 3% margin for error, which exists with skinfold caliper testing. I was tested by a professional who works with physique competitors, however there is always a margin for error.
Nevertheless, it is possible, and those who say it isn't possible should get out of the way of those doing it, because unless you've done it, you can't understand how brutal it is to get that lean.
Dear, if there's a perfectly sweet and ripe peach, just off the tree, not a single dent in it's skin, there's going to be someone who will hate that, too....
No need to get in a discussion with people who have probably never been there. I looked at your pics, and I think you looked great for your competition!
Happy lifting! :flowerforyou:0 -
I just recently did a physique competition (photos in my profile) and came in at around 4.5% via skinfold caliper testing. I can tell you how I did it, but pm me if you want...no one here on MFP wants to hear about any diet that doesn't include Pop Tarts and Ice cream I don't care to argue with people on the forums anymore.
Um, 4.5% BF in a woman is not possible.
Yes, it is. Women compete at 4-7% bodyfat all the time. It's not healthy or maintainable. It's a very short-term thing. But to say it's not possible is incorrect. I concede a 3% margin for error, which exists with skinfold caliper testing. I was tested by a professional who works with physique competitors, however there is always a margin for error.
Nevertheless, it is possible, and those who say it isn't possible should get out of the way of those doing it, because unless you've done it, you can't understand how brutal it is to get that lean.
Like you said, skin fold testing is not reliable.
You weren't 4.5% BF. Sorry.
I'm gonna have to agree with this. Skin fold tests are accurate for tracking progress, but not the actual BF%. Sure, it's possible that she got to 4%, but there is no way you are going to have any appreciable amount of muscle at that %. 4% bodyfat is critical care low. No way you are competing with bf that low.0 -
I personally don't like the look of man under 10% bf or women under 15% bf.
Ok back on topic....0 -
Thanks for all your comments. The wellness center I work for has 2 ways to measure body fat. The Omron, hand held device and the Futrex infrared device. The Omron reads higher at around 22% and the Futrex around 15%. I've maintained the same weight and about the same body fat percent for as long as I can remember--maybe 20 years or so with the exception of pregnancy and postpartum (2x). I know most of the ins and outs of fitness as I've been in this field for a long time but it always amazed me to see women competition lean. My husband competed in bodybuilding on a local level for a while so I would watch him cut and knew how hard and extreme it is. I've just never been able to get those pesky love handles lost--you know the ones that hang over just a bit on the backs of your jeans..ugh! and I'd love to have a tighter/leaner core--not necessarily ripped. I also know that when people are in competition shape they are usually at their physical weakest and psychologically drained. I know that the pics we see in the mags are taken during this peak and it's very often that the same person is hard to recognize during their off season.
So, I'm aware of all this and do not want to go to that level--just leaner and tighter than I am now. If I get a chance I'll post some pics of me so you can see what I'm talking about. Thanks again for your thoughts and tips. :happy:0 -
I just recently did a physique competition (photos in my profile) and came in at around 4.5% via skinfold caliper testing. I can tell you how I did it, but pm me if you want...no one here on MFP wants to hear about any diet that doesn't include Pop Tarts and Ice cream I don't care to argue with people on the forums anymore.
Um, 4.5% BF in a woman is not possible.
Yes, it is. Women compete at 4-7% bodyfat all the time. It's not healthy or maintainable. It's a very short-term thing. But to say it's not possible is incorrect. I concede a 3% margin for error, which exists with skinfold caliper testing. I was tested by a professional who works with physique competitors, however there is always a margin for error.
Nevertheless, it is possible, and those who say it isn't possible should get out of the way of those doing it, because unless you've done it, you can't understand how brutal it is to get that lean.
Dear, if there's a perfectly sweet and ripe peach, just off the tree, not a single dent in it's skin, there's going to be someone who will hate that, too....
No need to get in a discussion with people who have probably never been there. I looked at your pics, and I think you looked great for your competition!
Happy lifting! :flowerforyou:
no where did any of us say she didn't look good for her competition...but to claim to be 4% BF is just silly and yes she got called out on it
if anything she got combative right off the bat with her commentno one here on MFP wants to hear about any diet that doesn't include Pop Tarts and Ice cream I don't care to argue with people on the forums anymore.0 -
So I followed the link provided---- http://www.leighpeele.com/body-fat-pictures-and-percentages
Not sure where I think I fall on those pics.Maybe between 18-25% I think I see the real me but my husband says I don't. I know I do not have the symmetry and shape of any of those ladies in those pics.0 -
At 18% BF you'd already start seeing definition. So chances are you are not at 18% BF. Use skinfold tests to get a better estimate.
You attain a lower body fat by tracking macros and calories, making sure you eat enough protein to maintain your lean body mass, and eat at a caloric deficit.
eating clean =/= low body fat. I ate clean and was 145lbs, but very soft.
Your diary isn't open, so can't make any suggestions based on how you eat or how much you eat.
Also chances are you are over-doing it on cardio. Especially if you are doing HIIT or high intensity. Very light cardio post-weights (this LISS) or some cardio on your rest days is more than enough, and will help minimize overtraining and burnout. Both of which could likely affect body composition.
Bodybuilders and fitness models are at unnaturally low body fat levels for specific periods of time, not year round. So it'd be better to figure out a good body fat estimate and then figure out about how much you need to lose to start seeing more definition. This chart may be helpful:
Create a slight deficit, eat back exercise cals (50-75%) if you use MFP net method, and don't push yourself too hard.0 -
Thanks for all your comments. The wellness center I work for has 2 ways to measure body fat. The Omron, hand held device and the Futrex infrared device. The Omron reads higher at around 22% and the Futrex around 15%. I've maintained the same weight and about the same body fat percent for as long as I can remember--maybe 20 years or so with the exception of pregnancy and postpartum (2x). I know most of the ins and outs of fitness as I've been in this field for a long time but it always amazed me to see women competition lean. My husband competed in bodybuilding on a local level for a while so I would watch him cut and knew how hard and extreme it is. I've just never been able to get those pesky love handles lost--you know the ones that hang over just a bit on the backs of your jeans..ugh! and I'd love to have a tighter/leaner core--not necessarily ripped. I also know that when people are in competition shape they are usually at their physical weakest and psychologically drained. I know that the pics we see in the mags are taken during this peak and it's very often that the same person is hard to recognize during their off season.
So, I'm aware of all this and do not want to go to that level--just leaner and tighter than I am now. If I get a chance I'll post some pics of me so you can see what I'm talking about. Thanks again for your thoughts and tips. :happy:
Some of us simply have problem areas that tend to store more fat. My thighs are very stubborn, they are fairly lean but the fat around the upper thigh, under my butt is not going anywhere.
But if you do not lift weights I recommend you start, the best way to “get tighter” or “look leaner” whatever that brings to mind is to strength train. Eating at a slight deficit will help you eliminate the fat, make sure to get enough protein.
Good luck ;-)0 -
I do weight train and lift heavy, for me. I lift 4 to 5x week getting all muscles worked. I highly recommend weight lifting to everyone.0
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I do weight train and lift heavy, for me. I lift 4 to 5x week getting all muscles worked. I highly recommend weight lifting to everyone.
You could be lifting too often... If you lift 5x a week then you'd better be doing body part splits (e.g. back, chest, arm, etc). If you work out 4x a week then it'd better be some type of split, such as upper/lower or a specific program based on body part splits like Wendler 5/3/1. If you do full body that often you are over-doing it and that will not help you achieve your goals. I was just doing a push/pull split but it was overworking my muscles, so I've been regressing! Going back to upper/lower.0 -
I do split the body parts ups -- don't forget I am a trainer I know all about over training. I think my biggest question is the how to with getting so lean and the diet part. I have days--such as today where I've gone over my calories for MFP but I'm sitting here and hungry right now. I haven't worked out today either--just shopping. So, contemplating whether to go eat more of call it a night. I think cycling calories helps too and maybe today will be a high cal day. Maybe I have not given it enough time and maybe I'm one of those that may not cut enough to see abs.
I did take some pics today. How do I post them on here?0 -
How do I post pics?0
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I think it really just comes down to eating less/losing fat.
I'm 43, 5'5" and lost weight to below my actual goal, with the plan of then building muscle. It's worked pretty well. At my lowest weight, a DEXA scan put me at 15% BF, and a BIA scale put me at 11% BF (on the same day). Since then--for about 7 months--I've been using a BIA scale every week. My last check put me at 7% BF. Based on the difference 7 months ago, I figure this puts me around 11% BF on a DEXA today. (I go in for another scan in a week.) In those 7 months, I've been lifting weights to build lean mass. I've gained a handful of pounds, while dropping BF%. So the gain seems to be pretty much all muscle per the BIA scale, which is fantastic.
My husband is working with my trainer now too. He's supposed to get to 15% BF before the trainer will have him start lifting seriously. (The trainer says that he'll need to eat at an excess to build muscle, and until he gets to 15% BF, his body will be too proposed to store the extra calories as fat.)
Just one perspective.0
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