Nutrition help for elite athletes needed

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blankiefinder
blankiefinder Posts: 3,599 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
I was hoping someone could help me try to figure out the macro nutrients etc that I should be feeding my 16 year old daughter and 18 year old son. They are national level swimmers. It's hard trying to make sure they are getting the protein etc that they need, and I am hoping someone can help me figure out how to calculate what they should be having.

Per week, per kid:

18 year old male: edited to add, 5'11.5, 140 lbs
3 hours weights
4.5 hours dry land (mainly running right now)
16 hours intense swimming

16 year old female: edited to add, 5 ft 6, 120 lbs
6 hours dry land (running, spin bikes, push ups, planks,etc)
16 hours intense swimming

I'm not sure if I should be calculating it by the week and averaging, or if they should be adjusting on a daily basis depending on single practice days, double days, or their one day off. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks!
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Replies

  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
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    It's hard to calculate protein goals without knowing their weight. Basically they should shoot to consume a minimum of 0.82g of protein per lb of body weight. As for fat, it's recommended to consume a minimum of 0.4g of dietary fat per lb of body weight. Since they are elite athletes I'd recommend that the remainder of their calorie intake come mostly from carbohydrates.
  • blankiefinder
    blankiefinder Posts: 3,599 Member
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    It's hard to calculate protein goals without knowing their weight. Basically they should shoot to consume a minimum of 0.82g of protein per lb of body weight. As for fat, it's recommended to consume a minimum of 0.4g of dietary fat per lb of body weight. Since they are elite athletes I'd recommend that the remainder of their calorie intake come mostly from carbohydrates.

    Thanks, AJ! I've edited the post to add in their height and weight.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
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    You'll want to invest in consulting with a nutritionist trained in working with elites to work up a feeding schedule and plan.
  • blankiefinder
    blankiefinder Posts: 3,599 Member
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    You'll want to invest in consulting with a nutritionist trained in working with elites to work up a feeding schedule and plan.

    I actually did speak with the team nutritionist, and they were less than helpful. I may have to try a different one, but I also want to get both of them tracking their food through MFP so that they can take responsibility for reaching their macros on their own, and make better food decisions. After all, Mom can't be with them every moment ;)
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
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    If I were in that situation, I'd find a new nutritionist to work as their personal nutritionist on retainer.

    I'd not ask randoms.
  • Cherimoose
    Cherimoose Posts: 5,209 Member
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    I'd hire a Registered Dietitian. Or read a textbook on sports nutrition (library, bookstore, etc).

    Who knows if we're qualified to give advice.
  • chrisdavey
    chrisdavey Posts: 9,834 Member
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    I'd assume with that sort of training volume they are doing 2 a day training?

    Times like these, nutrient timing definitely matters.

    If they are serious about optimal performance, I'd be bulk cooking a lot of meals for both of them. Something with some protein and fat but majority carbs. Simple ones are rice, pasta, potato dishes with meat of choice and some sauce (for fats). Slow cooker works a treat.

    I don't think too many young ones would be willing to track all their foods? May be better to implement a meal plan. Include a free meal from time to time. With the amount of activity they are doing, the free meal could definitely be a less than "clean" option. As always, once your micro nutrient needs are met you don't get a bonus for more. Athletes may benefit from magnesium supplementation for recovery purposes. But overall a good variety of foods is important.
  • blankiefinder
    blankiefinder Posts: 3,599 Member
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    If I were in that situation, I'd find a new nutritionist to work as their personal nutritionist on retainer.

    I'd not ask randoms.

    I do understand your point, but from personal experience, the nutritionists we have dealt with in the past have literally just said to follow the Canada food guide (aka food pyramid). I won't take responses here as the gospel truth, but am hoping for a starting point to calculate the number of calories they are burning, etc.
  • blankiefinder
    blankiefinder Posts: 3,599 Member
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    I'd assume with that sort of training volume they are doing 2 a day training?

    Times like these, nutrient timing definitely matters.

    If they are serious about optimal performance, I'd be bulk cooking a lot of meals for both of them. Something with some protein and fat but majority carbs. Simple ones are rice, pasta, potato dishes with meat of choice and some sauce (for fats). Slow cooker works a treat.

    I don't think too many young ones would be willing to track all their foods? May be better to implement a meal plan. Include a free meal from time to time. With the amount of activity they are doing, the free meal could definitely be a less than "clean" option. As always, once your micro nutrient needs are met you don't get a bonus for more. Athletes may benefit from magnesium supplementation for recovery purposes. But overall a good variety of foods is important.

    Thanks, Chris!!
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
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    If I were in that situation, I'd find a new nutritionist to work as their personal nutritionist on retainer.

    I'd not ask randoms.

    I do understand your point, but from personal experience, the nutritionists we have dealt with in the past have literally just said to follow the Canada food guide (aka food pyramid). I won't take responses here as the gospel truth, but am hoping for a starting point to calculate the number of calories they are burning, etc.

    Keep in mind there is a big difference between a "Nutritionist" and a "Registered Dietitian". Almost anybody can call themselves a Nutritionist, but to be a Registered Dietitian you have to be certified.
  • FoxyMcDeadlift
    FoxyMcDeadlift Posts: 771 Member
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    Id buy the HRM to get a feel for their expenditure and add these values on top of their tdee using the highly active multiplier. Id make the base activity factor include the weights then add everything on top. That's the method I use when doing heavy amounts of cardio plus weights. Simple carbs right after training. I presume there are good hrms out there for triathletes that are water resistant? Monitor their weights for progress. Do they have set weight limits? Is the son trying to build mass or maintain his current physique?
  • blankiefinder
    blankiefinder Posts: 3,599 Member
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    Keep in mind there is a big difference between a "Nutritionist" and a "Registered Dietitian". Almost anybody can call themselves a Nutritionist, but to be a Registered Dietitian you have to be certified.

    I hadn't even thought of that, thanks!! Excellent point. I'm not sure if the team nutritionist is a registered dietician or not.
  • blankiefinder
    blankiefinder Posts: 3,599 Member
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    Id buy the HRM to get a feel for their expenditure and add these values on top of their tdee using the highly active multiplier. Id make the base activity factor include the weights then add everything on top. That's the method I use when doing heavy amounts of cardio plus weights. Simple carbs right after training. I presume there are good hrms out there for triathletes that are water resistant? Monitor their weights for progress. Do they have set weight limits? Is the son trying to build mass or maintain his current physique?

    Foxy, my son's university team coach has said that they are supposed to be taking a lot of extra protein, so he is definitely building mass. Both have minimal body fat, especially my son. I don't think he has any set weight limits.
  • lexlomax
    lexlomax Posts: 1
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    I am a competitive swimmer from Australia (at a masters level) and I have found it very difficult to get trustworthy advice around nutrition requirements for swimming. I engaged a professional nutritionist also, however I found her advice to be way too generic to be of any benefit. I recently completed a course at Vanderbilt university on Nutrition and Fitness, and found this to be very helpful. I thought I might post some links that the academics recommended for athletes:

    http://www.epi.umn.edu/let/pubs/img/adol_ch16.pdf
    http://fnic.nal.usda.gov/lifecycle-nutrition/fitness-and-sports-nutrition/nutrition-athletes
    http://fnic.nal.usda.gov/lifecycle-nutrition/teen-nutrition

    They also referenced this guy, Dan Benardot a lot. He seems to be some sort of sports nutrition god.
    http://snhp.gsu.edu/profile/dan-benardot-ph-d-r-d-l-d-facsm/
    http://foodandsport.com/publications.html
  • blankiefinder
    blankiefinder Posts: 3,599 Member
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    Thanks, Lex! I will have a good read of all those links tonight. Greatly appreciated!
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
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    Keep in mind there is a big difference between a "Nutritionist" and a "Registered Dietitian". Almost anybody can call themselves a Nutritionist, but to be a Registered Dietitian you have to be certified.

    I hadn't even thought of that, thanks!! Excellent point. I'm not sure if the team nutritionist is a registered dietician or not.

    That's a good distinction to make, and I didn't. Glad someone did. I didn't think of it, because frankly, at the elite level, most of the quackery has been filtered out by things like the expectation of proper results.

    Quacks can't stand up to that. I cannot imagine what your food bills are like.
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
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    How frequent is that training regimen you listed above? I can figure it out if I know the frequency.
  • dbmata
    dbmata Posts: 12,950 Member
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    Per week, per kid

    That would lead me to believe, weekly.
  • Sam_I_Am77
    Sam_I_Am77 Posts: 2,093 Member
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    How frequent is that training regimen you listed above? I can figure it out if I know the frequency.

    It would also help to understand what type of swimming they're doing. Are they training for shorter events or longer events?
  • AJ_G
    AJ_G Posts: 4,158 Member
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    How frequent is that training regimen you listed above? I can figure it out if I know the frequency.

    It would also help to understand what type of swimming they're doing. Are they training for shorter events or longer events?

    Good point, it would be advantageous to build muscle and subsequently strength if they're sprinters, whereas if they're distance swimmers endurance is more important than strength.

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