type 2 diabetes and body fat
Options
candistyx
Posts: 547 Member
I am looking for some information about type 2 diabetes. I want to know if anyone has any experience of someone who:
- Got diagnosed with diabetes while clinically "obese"
- Reduced their body fat percentage into a low range (15-10% say for a male)
- Still had abnormal blood sugars
I am wondering how effective it would be for a diabetic male to reduce his body fat very low as a response to a diabetes diagnosis. I have found lots of people on the internet saying they lost a small amount of weight (some of whom were already in or close to the normal range of weight) and that their diabetes remained, but I have found very few cases of people making radical changes to their fat mass in order to get a picture of how effective a strategy that was. I know some genes which cause low body fat also increase the risk of diabetes which is why I am only interested in people who already had high body fat at the point of diagnosis.
- Got diagnosed with diabetes while clinically "obese"
- Reduced their body fat percentage into a low range (15-10% say for a male)
- Still had abnormal blood sugars
I am wondering how effective it would be for a diabetic male to reduce his body fat very low as a response to a diabetes diagnosis. I have found lots of people on the internet saying they lost a small amount of weight (some of whom were already in or close to the normal range of weight) and that their diabetes remained, but I have found very few cases of people making radical changes to their fat mass in order to get a picture of how effective a strategy that was. I know some genes which cause low body fat also increase the risk of diabetes which is why I am only interested in people who already had high body fat at the point of diagnosis.
0
Replies
-
Hello
I was diagnosed 10 years ago with type 2 diabetes. I was also diagnosed with high blood pressure and high cholesterol. I made a lifestyle change in diet and activity and lost 18kgs over the first 12 months.
I had managed to control my diabetes for 10 years, just last month i was placed on meds. I had gained around 8kgs over the last 12-18 months and have had trouble shifting it. I believe that was the cause of my raised blood sugar levels.
I cant tell you whether i had high or low body fat.
I followed a low GI diet and exercised daily. Weights/cardio 1 1/2 hrs per day.
Good luck0 -
My worry is the person in question already lost 90lbs (40kg) in the year prior to getting diagnosed with diabetes. Obviously this was not enough weight loss to prevent it.
My hope is that if he got to a low enough body fat percentage though it might help.0 -
How closely was the person in question paying attention to their carbohydrate intake? Because they could have lost the weight while still eating things that negatively affect blood sugar levels. I think the recommendation is to keep them under 200 a day? Maybe try to get them lower than that? And definitely space them out throughout the day.0
-
Restricting carbohydrates only prevents the immediate post prandial glucose spike (and any failure to clear that spike as the day progresses). It won't change the underlying mechanisms that cause diabetes.
People on e.g. the Newcastle Protocol, at least temporarily could eat a diet with normal amounts of carbohydrates for at least 12 weeks after and still have normal blood sugar, so something else must have happened there than just prevention of post prandial highs. The pancreas fat theory makes sense but idk.
The point is I want to fix the diabetes, temporarily if that's all that is possible, not just mask high blood sugars with low carbohydrate dieting. Obviously it might not be possible, that's why I want to know if getting to a very low body fat has effected someone's ability to tolerate glucose.
As it happens though they generally get less than 150 carbohydrates a day (they are aiming for 20% carbs). Although stuff like this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24532293 makes me wonder if the low carbohydrate option is the best option.0 -
Restricting carbohydrates only prevents the immediate post prandial glucose spike (and any failure to clear that spike as the day progresses). It won't change the underlying mechanisms that cause diabetes.
People on e.g. the Newcastle Protocol, at least temporarily could eat a diet with normal amounts of carbohydrates for at least 12 weeks after and still have normal blood sugar, so something else must have happened there than just prevention of post prandial highs. The pancreas fat theory makes sense but idk.
The point is I want to fix the diabetes, temporarily if that's all that is possible, not just mask high blood sugars with low carbohydrate dieting. Obviously it might not be possible, that's why I want to know if getting to a very low body fat has effected someone's ability to tolerate glucose.
As it happens though they generally get less than 150 carbohydrates a day (they are aiming for 20% carbs). Although stuff like this http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24532293 makes me wonder if the low carbohydrate option is the best option.
Eh, my country seems to be behind the times then (I'm not surprised).
I wish you good luck in your efforts.0 -
There's a great group on here you might want to check out.. loads of resources and help for people with T2
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/1772-type-2-diabetes-support-group
:bigsmile:0 -
There's a great group on here you might want to check out.. loads of resources and help for people with T2
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/1772-type-2-diabetes-support-group
:bigsmile:
Thank you. I am at high risk. My doctor is following me to see if it improves with diet/exercise.0 -
I was diagnosed with diabetes type 2 when I was obese. However since I have been exercising everyday and eating right I don"t have to take my meds.
On the days that I happen to eat something I'm not supposed to and don't exercise my sugar will spike. The key for me is eating right and exercising. I think once diabetic always diabetic but I know you can control it. I DO.
I have a lot of lows if i'm not careful. This is my experience and I know its different for everyone.0 -
I found out that I am. Insulin resistance, and I find that everything I eat has carbs in it. I also find it hard to find anything to eat, but I keep trying. In the morning I can only eat so many eggs. My Doctor has put so many restrictions on me and that makes me very upset I find. my self going back to my bad eating habits. I really do like my doctor and I know she's only doing her job my doctor has put me on medicine it makes me sick so I take it at night. I am really not one for exercise.0
-
There are lots of possible causes of diabetes, and being obese is just one risk factor (not necessarily a cause). I was "only" about 210 at my heaviest (male, 5'11") and had just lost 40 lbs when diagnosed pre-diabetic. There are lots of skinny diabetics out there! Although, for people who are obese when diagnosed, losing 10% of their body weight can lead to significant improvements in their blood sugar control.
Personally, it seems to me that some evidence is coming out that visceral fat (the fat that surrounds your organs) is more important to control than regular body fat, but the jury is still out on that.
Plus, I don't think you are ever truly cured (although that may depend on what caused an individuals specific case). If your insulin response is abnormal due to mutations in a gene, no diet or drug is going to change that. "Masking" the blood sugar spikes is really the best you can hope for, but may well be sufficient. The primary damage of diabetes comes from high levels of sugar in the blood hardening capillaries (especially in the extremities and eyes), shutting them down. This is why diabetics lose feet and eye sight.
A balanced diet of low to moderate carbs seems to work for most people, spread out throughout the day. Don't have a meal or snack that is purely carbs - always try to get some protein/fat in too. And exercise! Very important to move, even if it just a walk.0 -
Have you seen a nutritionist who specializes in diabetes?I found out that I am. Insulin resistance, and I find that everything I eat has carbs in it. I also find it hard to find anything to eat, but I keep trying. In the morning I can only eat so many eggs. My Doctor has put so many restrictions on me and that makes me very upset I find. my self going back to my bad eating habits. I really do like my doctor and I know she's only doing her job my doctor has put me on medicine it makes me sick so I take it at night. I am really not one for exercise.
Try to make small changes, and track your blood sugar 2 h after eating to see what happens. For example, have less pasta and more sauce, or have a wrap instead of a hoagie. Increase the amounts of protein and veggies you eat at each meal too. While some people find they have to cut out almost all "simple" carbs, others (like me!) find we can do OK just moderating how much we eat.
And do try to exercise. Just find something you can enjoy and do that. Even a short walk after a carb heavy meal can help to bring glucose down to normal levels.0 -
Some people have suggested that insulin's effects on blood vessel walls (or lack of those effects in the absence of insulin) might be partially responsible, not just glycotoxcicity, for the extremely elevated heart disease risk in diabetics. Given that it seems like the prevention of further beta cell loss is imperative in order to preserve as much insulin capacity as possible.
I'm sure there's other stuff we don't know. In a markov model of mortality and complications of people diagnosed in their late teens and early 20s they predicted an average lifespan of 63 (15 years below population average) and the onset of seriously disabling complications in their 40s! Yet according to their model (based on data from UKPDS) good glycemic control was only associated with less than an extra year of total life and less than an extra year of un-disabled life.
If good glycemic control is insufficient to provide those benefits then good glycemic control is not a good enough treatment, the underlying disease process needs to be attacked.
I will not be satisfied with merely covering it up by controlling sugars if there is even a smidgin of hope for a better outcome, 15 years of life and decades of disability are not acceptable.0 -
I was 270 lbs. at 5' 8" when I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes. I am now at 160 lbs. While I still take Metformin 1000 mg daily, my fasting blood sugar is in the 70's and I have more energy than I did when I was in my 20's. I don't count carbs, just net calories and I walk 5 miles daily.0
-
just had to respond.... candi, carbs are the enemy....
i have been a type 2 diabetic since 2005 and on insulin since 2008.... 49 units a night of Lantus
....so June 2nd, i went on the PALEO diet..... ina little over 3 months, i have lost 65 pounds and stopped completely one of the blood pressure meds i was on....
over that 3 months I had to slowly reduce the units of insulin on a regular basis...
yesterday I went to my doctor and WAS TAKEN COMPLETELY OFF INSULIN.... I BEAT DIABETES..... my doctor was doing flips... he was excited more than i was...
A1c went from over 10 % down to a non diabetic level....
I take no more insulin...i was on that for 6 years.....
I eat fruits, veggies...lean meats...healthy fats.... my carb intake runs less than 20 grams a day.....
carbs do matter to some diabetics....one guy said that it all depends why you are diabetic...mine was purely obesity ... and being lazy....
i cut the carbs got back in teh gym, lost the weight...and BAM! I BEAT DIABETES... I know I will always be a diabetic for life but right now I am controlling it with my low carb diet and exercise....
good luck to you0 -
Restricting carbohydrates only prevents the immediate post prandial glucose spike (and any failure to clear that spike as the day progresses). It won't change the underlying mechanisms that cause diabetes.
That entirely depends on the underlying mechanism that causes Diabetes in that particular person.
For example, I'm at high risk of developing Diabetes, because I'm hyperinsulinemic and insulin resistant, and the cause of that is PCOS (polycystic ovarian syndrome). In other words, my fasting insulin runs high, even though my blood sugar is normal, and it takes more insulin to keep it that way. For that reason, a high fat, low carb, moderate protein diet is what holds the most promise for me, because it results in the least amount of insulin increases from food.
Likewise, I know several Type I Diabetics for whom LCHF changed their lives. They were able to reduce their insulin down to basal or just a small amount of bolus.My worry is the person in question already lost 90lbs (40kg) in the year prior to getting diagnosed with diabetes. Obviously this was not enough weight loss to prevent it.
My hope is that if he got to a low enough body fat percentage though it might help.
Is he and his doctor sure that he's not actually Type I Diabetic? It's not uncommon for Type I to not be diagnosed until adulthood, or for it to not set in until adulthood. Type I differs from Type II in that it's an autoimmune condition, and insulin production can be "good enough" for years, until one day it's no longer good enough.
While lowering body fat can help people with Type II Diabetes, if he's lost 90lbs, and has a good diet (ie - Twinkies and pasta aren't the bulk of his diet), then it's possible it's not Type II. Conversely, if he's lost that much on Twinkies and pasta, it might have been sufficient to lose weight, but it's still causing blood sugar issues, because despite the weight loss, he's still having issues.
Weight loss, in and of itself, isn't the cure-all for Diabetes. Generally speaking, people see improvements, because they go from sedentary and eating crap to eating better (more whole foods, less refined sugar, etc) and exercising more (which increases insulin sensitivity). It's those things that do more for it. The weight loss is just a more obvious external sign.0 -
Some people have suggested that insulin's effects on blood vessel walls (or lack of those effects in the absence of insulin) might be partially responsible, not just glycotoxcicity, for the extremely elevated heart disease risk in diabetics. Given that it seems like the prevention of further beta cell loss is imperative in order to preserve as much insulin capacity as possible.
I'm sure there's other stuff we don't know. In a markov model of mortality and complications of people diagnosed in their late teens and early 20s they predicted an average lifespan of 63 (15 years below population average) and the onset of seriously disabling complications in their 40s! Yet according to their model (based on data from UKPDS) good glycemic control was only associated with less than an extra year of total life and less than an extra year of un-disabled life.
If good glycemic control is insufficient to provide those benefits then good glycemic control is not a good enough treatment, the underlying disease process needs to be attacked.
I will not be satisfied with merely covering it up by controlling sugars if there is even a smidgin of hope for a better outcome, 15 years of life and decades of disability are not acceptable.
Type 2 can be either a reduced response to insulin (i.e at the level of the insulin receptor), or reduced production of insulin itself by beta cells. Left untreated, the beta cells might become damaged as they try to pump out more and more insulin.
But it seems to me that what you are looking for doesn't exist yet! We don't know the actual causes of diabetes, so we can't actually attack the underlying disease process. There are at least a dozen genes that have been implicated in leading to T2D, and then there the environmental factors needed to trigger the disease. The *best* we can do is to try to prevent the blood sugar spikes. You can control the environmental ones to some extent (eating right, exercising, weight management) but we can't do anything about the genetic ones. For some people, unfortunately, the genetic factors will still win out.
btw - most people who are type 2 are diagnosed later in life - after about 45. I'm not aware of significant reduction in life expectancy for them if controlled (though I haven't looked...). Was this person diagnosed early?0 -
Yeah they were diagnosed at age 27. It's not quite in the 15-24 range of the model but its close enough (and other life expectancy models start at much older ages - and predict about 8 years reduction in life expectancy vs 15 in this group).
btw - most people who are type 2 are diagnosed later in life - after about 45. I'm not aware of significant reduction in life expectancy for them if controlled (though I haven't looked...). Was this person diagnosed early?0 -
And just another word on the low body fat thing... people who tend to have abdominal fat stores (as opposed to say on their hips or thighs) are more prone to diabetes. This MIGHT be linked to what I mentioned earlier about visceral fat. Basically, if the pancreas is surrounded by too much fat, it can't do it's job properly. Plus, we are really only just starting to realize that "fat" isn't simply for storage, but an active "organ" all of it's own, which can affect hormone action.
Of course, one can't control where one loses fat, especially not visceral fat. Getting to a very low overall bf % might be required and may help (but this is just speculative on my part).0 -
And just another word on the low body fat thing... people who tend to have abdominal fat stores (as opposed to say on their hips or thighs) are more prone to diabetes. This MIGHT be linked to what I mentioned earlier about visceral fat. Basically, if the pancreas is surrounded by too much fat, it can't do it's job properly. Plus, we are really only just starting to realize that "fat" isn't simply for storage, but an active "organ" all of it's own, which can affect hormone action.
Of course, one can't control where one loses fat, especially not visceral fat. Getting to a very low overall bf % might be required and may help (but this is just speculative on my part).
Yeah but if someone with X ratio of subcutaneous to visceral fat loses X% of their body weight, presumably they'd lose it equally from both stores (barring some unexpected hormonal change). Even if they didn't getting to a very low body fat as you say might be the key...
Also have been led to believe that type 2 must involve both reduced insulin capacity and reduced insulin sensitivity (particularly in the liver - which fails to stop producing extra glucose in response to insulin).
I am also sceptical the tired pancreas model of diabetes. The reasons I am include:
1. There is evidence that people whose beta cell function degraded to the point they required insulin, in some of the Ma-Pi participants cases after 30 years of type 2 diabetes, were able to restore enough function, on a high carbohydrate diet(!) to be able to stop taking insulin. That's remarkable, it also suggests that the beta cells are not "dead" but simply not working for some reason.
2. Likewise, people on the Newcastle protocol restored function they had lost at the end of it, this wasn't just due to insulin sensitivity increases, beta cell function was tested and had improved.
The theory behind the Ma-Pi diet (not the woo woo theory, which also exists, the real theory) is that the high fiber nature of it induces gut bacteria to release chemicals that improve GLP-1 production by the gut, very interesting and exciting - so this could explain (within a dead beta cells model) the improvements.
But the newcastle diet had no extra fiber, in fact it was mostly horrible for anyone Optifast! At least in the early stage of diabetes beta cells can't be "dead" - in later stages even if they are the right protocol can actually result in beta cell growth. A person need not be resigned to having an insufficient number of beta cells, at least not always.0 -
You have obviously done your research! I've got some reading to do...0
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 391.7K Introduce Yourself
- 43.5K Getting Started
- 259.8K Health and Weight Loss
- 175.6K Food and Nutrition
- 47.3K Recipes
- 232.3K Fitness and Exercise
- 395 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.4K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.5K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 152.7K Motivation and Support
- 7.8K Challenges
- 1.3K Debate Club
- 96.3K Chit-Chat
- 2.5K Fun and Games
- 3.3K MyFitnessPal Information
- 23 News and Announcements
- 960 Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 2.3K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions