Enemy Number One Here...

[agape.gif]

Is this a mean people thread disguised as a clean eating thread? That is like a double rainbow...

I need to print out a Bingo card one of these days.

So you conclude your "apology" by making the same unsubstantiated assertions. Nice.

I have cheat days. I go over my sodium, I bake, I eat chocolate and bacon from time to time. I drink whiskey, and skip work outs. I am a human being, just like everyone one of you.

Yea, but we do this in moderation and without guilt because we're also eating our vegetables and training. It's all part of the program and that was the fundamental point of many of the responses.

I understand that beginning a "healthy" lifestyle is the hardest thing a person can do. To even take the first step to becoming healthy is the most commendable thing I can think of.

No. No it's not. It takes effort, but the point is to make it sustainable and easier by cutting away all the crazy self-flaggelation that seems to be associated with many diets, such as cutting out entire groups of food, coming up with crazy rules, and guilt.

I thought about my response all day long, and had really come to the conclusion that it was best just to let this thread die out, as I'm sure some dummy like me will come along again in the near future, and make the mistake I did today.

It's the internet. Nothing that happens here matters unless you internalize it and let it affect you. Don't. Let it go. You will have friends come and go. Some will delete you and you will delete some. It doesn't matter. It is very likely that you will meet very few, if any, of these people IRL and they will definitely not be the same IRL as they are here. It's just the way this thing works. Relax and focus on your diet and exercise as those will help you far more than anything here.

But also be aware that as human beings we survive, and more specifically, THRIVE on fruits and vegetables, whole grains, and lean meat more than we do on fast food and processed flours/sugars.

Really? You want to start this up again? Look, I eat mostly meat and veggies. I fit in Wendy's and beer because I like them. See above regarding guilt. Nutrition isn't exactly straight forward but it's not magic either.

The apology felt sincere and started out so well, and then...

That's how I read it, too.

OP, all I can say is if you really want to teach nutrition, healthy eating, and eating better, please learn a kinder bedside manner.


Edit: reworded because of comma overloads.

I feel like people like to pick on words, terms ad phrasing a bit excessively sometimes. We can't all be professional writers. Anyway, nice to see an apology even though I'm pretty sure I missed the original thread. I would just like to see everyone let it go and not bring it up again just because she is trying to state an opinion as so many people on these forums do.

I feel like people like to pick on words, terms ad phrasing a bit excessively sometimes. We can't all be professional writers. Anyway, nice to see an apology even though I'm pretty sure I missed the original thread. I would just like to see everyone let it go and not bring it up again just because she is trying to state an opinion as so many people on these forums do.

I'm pretty sure she started this thread ...

If you want people to let something go (that they already forgot about, anyway), don't start a whole new thread about it.

I want to educate and help as many people as possible achieve their best selves - and by all means, if that means that you're just looking to lose some weight, awesome!

your apology started off kinda ok, but the public crucifying of yourself by pre-empting everyone else in calling you public enemy number 1 was my first "uhhhhh ok"

but then this above quote......you came here to educate us? We are all here educating ourselves. Why don't you worry about you, and we will worry about us. And IF and WHEN someone PM's you and says hey, you seem to know a lot and I want to know more, do you want to help me? THEN maybe start educating.

A teacher needs to have students, students in need of their message. A teacher is not someone that suddenly starts shouting at a crowd of people simply because they feel they have a message everyone needs to hear.

worry about you. I got me....everyone else here, has got themselves...and when and if they need more info from you, they will come to you.

^^Seriously, so much truth here. Hope you read it...twice...

You're not Enemy Number One -- just one of a long list of people who start those same types of threads.

The MFP user community tends to be unfriendly toward people who say things like "you HAVE to do X in order to lose weight" or "you WON'T lose weight if you do Y." There is an incredible amount of bad health/weightloss information available in the world, so people who are new to trying to lose weight can feel like they're drowning in fad diets and conflicting rules.

If you've been paying attention to health/diet news in the last 30 years, you've been told:

Don't eat fat
Don't eat eggs because cholesterol
Don't eat carbs
Only drink skim milk/Never drink skim milk
Aspartame is the savior/Aspartame is the devil
Limit meat consumption/Increase meat consumption
A vegetarian diet is good for your heart/A vegetarian diet will make you fat

None of those things are absolutely true, and it can be confusing and demoralizing for people when they follow the current rules and don't lose weight. We actually like newbies around here and want them to succeed, so we spend a lot of time trying to get people to understand that there are a million different ways to lose weight, and it's okay for them to break the rules if that's what works for their personality and lifestyle.

If you came along and said "eating a diet that has a lot of whole, unprocessed foods is generally good for your health," nobody would've reacted, because that's true. If you come along and say "you can't lose weight while eating processed foods," our response is going to be "can you prove that?" It was the "have to" and "can't" words that we were challenging, not the suggestion that people can benefit from eating vegetables.

Note, I'm re-arranging things in this post, because it lets me respond more coherently. Also note - I know I should just walk away, but some days I can't resist the urge to educate either.

I understand that we all have different views of what healthy means to us. I sincerely did not mean to offend. I'm going to school to study health and human performance. I want to educate and help as many people as possible achieve their best selves - and by all means, if that means that you're just looking to lose some weight, awesome! Calories in vs Calories out is the equation. I'm not presuming that every person on here is looking to be in the best physical state possible. But I also hope that most people know that whole foods are a large part of the answer.

I'm really only answering because you say that your goal is to educate and help people with regards to their health and human performance.

Whole foods are not always a large part of the answer, and by starting with that assumption - you do damage.

I am a human being, just like everyone one of you. My original post was not to give off some "holier than thou" vibe, and shame people into eating more fruits and veggies. I know I wasn't specific, but I wasn't just saying in order to lose weight and be healthy you can only eat whole foods. A balanced diet including MOSTLY whole foods was all I was suggesting. To tell someone that they can never eat their favorite foods again is very obviously leading them to fail.

For a very long time, I agreed with you. A balanced diet of mostly whole foods is best for everyone. Even though it never seemed to work well for me. I could eat "whole" or "healthy" foods - lots of vegetables, lots of fruit, lots of lean meat, etc. Then after a little while, I'd feel bad, and eating things that were sugary or starchy or creamy - very easy to digest - it made me feel better. The same philosophy that told me "whole foods are better" also told me that this was addiction, and those foods were bad.

I was diagnosed with gluten intolerance, and for awhile after that - my diet was higher in white starches. I felt great, but also mentally bad - because I believed that I felt better because I was gluten free and that I needed to prune all those non-nutritious white starches from my diet. And to shore up my belief that eating "clean" was healthier - I got pretty holier-than-thou with people. My way was -clearly- better, otherwise why would I struggle so much to stick with it?

I've wrestled with this for YEARS. I failed every diet I tried, because I'd eat "healthy food", and feel like I'd been run over by a truck - but drinking a milkshake made me feel better, in a matter of minutes. But I kept trying, in part because I -like- vegetables. I like salads and lean meats and lightly steamed veggies with just a sprinkle of salt. Fresh fruit is an awesome snack.

Over the last two years, I learned (through some very expensive and invasive medical testing) that my digestive system is different than average. It doesn't process food the way that dietitians expect it to, and asking it to eat like that has damaged it.

My diary isn't open, because I don't want to deal with people like you telling me that I'm doing it wrong - when my day was a peanut butter shake, a V8, processed chicken fingers with sriracha mayo and mashed potatoes full of butter and cream. Especially when at the end of the day, I had a handful of chocolate chips to make my calorie targets.

I can hear the gears in your head spinning - you want to tell me that I could do better. You're right, I could. I could have had cream-enriched gravy on my potatoes.

In order to stay out of the emergency room - I have to consume less than 15 grams of fiber a day. Most days I need to consume less than 10. I can't eat lean proteins. I can manage one meal a day that didn't go through the blender - if it has sufficient fat that's liquid at body temperature. My "cheat" this week was a ham sandwich on gluten free bread, and I paid for that for 2 days. I'll have pain from a salad for up to a week - but I do it anyway, because I can't face life without my favorite foods.

Every day I make choices - do I eat the food I want (fruits, vegetables, proteins, whole grains) or do I have the ability to exercise, to grocery shop, clean my house and parent my child? I pick life. I listen to my doctor when he tells me that I need to maintain weight at a number the BMI tables tell me is overweight - because I can lose weight too quickly, and it's dangerous. I listen when he tells me that my a1c is dangerously low and I need to get my blood sugar up. That I need to eat more salt, to keep my blood pressure up.

I don't need you to tell me that I'm right, and I should eat crap, because you're not qualified to say that. I've got nutritionists and doctors and we're all working hard to figure out how to pack nutrients into what I can digest.

If you want to help people, and actually be helpful - stop thinking you know what's best for all of us. Stop encouraging us to judge what we eat based on anything other than how our bodies react to it. And for damn sure - don't tell people like me that our bodies are broken or wrong or lying to us.

I want to be in the best physical shape possible. But my possible is not your possible, and my path isn't your path.

I'm just here to learn more about how processing is inherently bad and lean meats are superior to not-lean meats.

hi

:flowerforyou:

That thread provided lots of entertainment. It's the internet; don't take it too seriously.

[insert "Internet . . . Serious Business" image here]

Well, if you're enemy number one - we really have nothing to fear. I think it's awesome that you came back and posted this. You can learn a lot from reading on MFP. You are also entitled to your feelings - even if no one else agrees with you.

Some people on MFP love to argue for the sake of arguing. It's like a pastime. Figure out what matters to you - and then go live your life.


A man lives by believing something: not by debating and arguing about many things.
Thomas Carlyle

This^^^^^So much this! :flowerforyou:

Not that I think John Mayer should be held up as a philosopher - but this is succinct - "Belief is a beautiful armour, it makes for the heaviest sword."

Without debate there is no learning, without learning there is no progress. Without progress - what's the point?

Carlyle believed in the "Heroic Leader" - felt democracy was pointless, and argued that slavery should never have been abolished.

FIFY

Haha - obliged! Makes much more sense that way.:drinker: