Intermittent Fasting Questions

Options
MyssPhytt
MyssPhytt Posts: 51 Member
in Health and Weight Loss
So I decided to give this intermittent fasting thing a try. I've heard both good and bad things about it. I've only done minimal research but I am mostly on-board that "IF" can be very beneficial. I would however prefer to hear real-life testimonies and suggestions. I must say, even the word "fasting" makes me suddenly feel hungry. I LOVE FOOD and since adding weight training to my exercise regimen, it seems that my appetite has sky-rocketed. So this is going to be a tough one for me, but I am willing to give it a try. I am currently working toward muscle/strength building and doing weightlifting 3x a week. My goal is to "lean out" and build muscle. I don't have a tremendous amount of pounds to lose but I do suspect that I still have a fair amount of fat percentage that I would like to be a bit lower and I would like to be within the "fitness" category of fat percentage and not just in the "acceptable" range that I'm currently in.

I'm not really sure where to begin or how to begin, but right now my plan is to gradually step into this by doing only a 15 hour fast with a 9 hour feed, fasting from 6 p.m. one day till 10 a.m. the next day. So basically I am just skipping my first meal. I plan to do this for 2 or 3 days then for the remainder of the week continue with my normal deficit diet with no fasting times. I guess this is essentially a 5:2 or 4:3 day ratio with 15:9 fasting/feeding ratio. I know this is not a major "fast" and not that long of a time period, but would this be a good starting point and sufficient enough for now, hoping to build up to longer times in the future? Also, does it matter if the fasting days are done consecutively or should they be broken up sporadically? Should I avoid fasting on certain workout days (weight training days vs cardio days)?

Then I'm curious about how many calories I should consume once I am able to eat. Should I severely restrict cals on fasting days and then eat at TDEE on nonfasting days? If so, how do I know how much to restrict? Also, I certainly don't want to do anything to hinder muscle building or cause muscle burn instead of fat burn, so should my diet be an overload of protein during my fasting days or do I just eat my normal suggested macros according to MFP? Currently I have been eating more protein on weight training days and more carbs/fats on cardio days.

Lastly, I've read that you should do your workout while in a fasting state for optimal fat burn. Unfortunately with my work/family life schedule, I don't get to workout till later in the day and I will be well out of my fasting state by then. Is this a big deal or does it really matter about working out and fasting together? Right now I really, really, REALLY don't want to set back my feeding times to later in the day because that means I would spend the majority of my daytime fasting and I know I will be constantly thinking about food. I work a desk job so its hard to keep myself from not mindlessly eating anyway. I would suspect that having to fight that mindset of not getting to eat at all would greatly increase my chances of failing at this. I know that it would be more optimal to be in a fasting state while working out, but is it absolutely necessary and will I still see results if I don't?

Thanks in advance for any info, testimonies, or suggestions! :happy:
«13

Replies

  • WalkingAlong
    WalkingAlong Posts: 4,926 Member
    Options
    I wouldn't worry about not being able to work out fasted. It's not the huge benefit they once thought.

    Skipping breakfast 3x a week may not do anything, I'm not sure. Even with fasting, it all comes down to calories in vs. out. If skipping breakfast helps you limit your overall calories, it might help. Otherwise, probably not.

    I'm doing JUDDD (alternate days of 500 calories with maintenance level eating) and like it.
  • Deadlay
    Deadlay Posts: 135 Member
    Options
    I loosely follow the 16:8 cycle just because it fits my schedule. I was never one to eat breakfast early in the morning.

    I normally don't work out fasted because my exercise times are usually later in the day. I generally stop eating at 7pm and fast until 11am but those times vary a lot based on whatever is happening. Don't get too hung up on meeting an exact schedule.

    The other thing to avoid is IFOC, or "intermittent fasting on crap". Some people assume that since they haven't eaten in 16 or 24 hours they can binge on whatever. You still need to eat a healthy diet.
  • MKEgal
    MKEgal Posts: 3,250 Member
    Options
    So I decided to give this intermittent fasting thing a try.
    I fast intermittently every day, from about 7pm - 8am.
    It works fine for me.

    My goal is to "lean out" and build muscle. I don't have a tremendous amount of pounds to lose but I do suspect that I still have a fair amount of fat percentage that I would like to be a bit lower and I would like to be within the "fitness" category of fat percentage and not just in the "acceptable" range that I'm currently in.
    Since you want to build muscle, you're going to need to be on the high end of the acceptable protein intake, which is 35% of calories.

    Also, eating higher protein & lower carbs has been shown to lead to more fat & weight loss than other eating patterns.
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/MKEgal/view/2014-08-09-high-protein-diet-685553

    I'm curious about how many calories I should consume once I am able to eat.
    According to Harvard Medical School, to maintain weight when moderately active (30 min per day) you need to eat 15 cal per pound.
    http://www.health.harvard.edu/healthbeat/HB_web/calorie-counting-made-easy.htm

    So take 15x your current weight to get calories,
    then mutiply that times 0.35 to get how many calories should come from protein,
    then divide that by 4 to get how many grams of protein you should aim for.

    And don't restrict your eating. Don't make food the enemy, give it power over your life.
    Eat what you want, what you like, in reasonable portions.

    I've read that you should do your workout while in a fasting state for optimal fat burn.
    There is actually science behind this.
    Your body prefers to use glucose (blood sugar), and after that it pulls on glycogen (stored carbs), and after that it goes to fat.
    While you sleep, you don't eat, so the glucose & glycogen are being depleted & you're closer to using your fat stores if you exercise before eating in the morning.

    "findings suggest that there may be an advantage for body fat regulation and lipid metabolism in exercising before compared with after breakfast."
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23167985

    And eating a large breakfast (half your calories) also helps with weight loss.
    See the last half of this blog post for the studies.
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/MKEgal/view/2014-06-10-some-studies-about-weight-loss-667818

    But, yes, as long as you are eating fewer calories than you need to run your body you will lose weight.

    ***************

    Actually, the people who come up with crazy schemes about when to eat, fasting, binge eating, which foods can't touch, etc. don't usually eat less, are less satisfied when they do eat, and they are more prone to develop further eating disorders.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23244741
    Double trouble: restrained eaters do not eat less and feel worse
    "high levels of dietary restraint do not appear to reflect actual caloric restraint, it has been found to be a risk factor for a wide array of maladaptive eating patterns. ... restrained eaters do not eat less than they intend to do"

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18325547
    "We examine the comfort food preferences and consumption patterns of women with highly versus less developed schemas for cognitive restraint, emotional and situational eating ... complex eating schemas weaken biological signals and produce maladaptive patterns... High schematics reported a lesser post-consumption increase in fullness than low schematics. Low schematics favoured low and high calorie foods equally, their choice motivated by pleasure and positive emotions."

    ***************

    Here are some helpful posts:

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/819925-the-basics-don-t-complicate-it

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1080242-a-guide-to-get-you-started-on-your-path-to-sexypants

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/872212-you-re-probably-eating-more-than-you-think

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/833026-important-posts-to-read


    A post I did about setting goals, including calories, weight, and macros.
    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/MKEgal/view/2014-06-08-setting-goals-667045
    .
  • deansdad101
    deansdad101 Posts: 644 Member
    Options
    So I decided to give this intermittent fasting thing a try. I've heard both good and bad things about it. I've only done minimal research but I am mostly on-board that "IF" can be very beneficial. I would however prefer to hear real-life testimonies and suggestions.

    <snipped>

    Thanks in advance for any info, testimonies, or suggestions! :happy:
    Myss;

    If you haven't seen this video it's well worth the time and should answer a number of your questions:


    It is fairly long (almost an hour) but you really do have to watch it all the way through. Some parts might appear a little "out there" (especially near the beginning) but hang in there - it's worth the time!

    Grab a glass of the grape (or your bev of choice), put your feet up and enjoy.
  • WalkingAlong
    WalkingAlong Posts: 4,926 Member
    Options
    OP- Please check out a book on IF. I can recommend three, if you need suggestions. (I suggest that as opposed to taking the advice of someone whose idea of IF is not eating between dinner and breakfast, not others in the thread. The Michael Mosley video above is one of the book authors I was going to suggest.)

    "Fasted (exercise) = suboptimal"
    http://alanaragon.com/myths-under-the-microscope-part-3-discussion-afterthoughts.html
  • socajam
    socajam Posts: 2,530 Member
    Options
    So I decided to give this intermittent fasting thing a try. I've heard both good and bad things about it. I've only done minimal research but I am mostly on-board that "IF" can be very beneficial. I would however prefer to hear real-life testimonies and suggestions. I must say, even the word "fasting" makes me suddenly feel hungry. I LOVE FOOD and since adding weight training to my exercise regimen, it seems that my appetite has sky-rocketed. So this is going to be a tough one for me, but I am willing to give it a try. I am currently working toward muscle/strength building and doing weightlifting 3x a week. My goal is to "lean out" and build muscle. I don't have a tremendous amount of pounds to lose but I do suspect that I still have a fair amount of fat percentage that I would like to be a bit lower and I would like to be within the "fitness" category of fat percentage and not just in the "acceptable" range that I'm currently in.

    I'm not really sure where to begin or how to begin, but right now my plan is to gradually step into this by doing only a 15 hour fast with a 9 hour feed, fasting from 6 p.m. one day till 10 a.m. the next day. So basically I am just skipping my first meal. I plan to do this for 2 or 3 days then for the remainder of the week continue with my normal deficit diet with no fasting times. I guess this is essentially a 5:2 or 4:3 day ratio with 15:9 fasting/feeding ratio. I know this is not a major "fast" and not that long of a time period, but would this be a good starting point and sufficient enough for now, hoping to build up to longer times in the future? Also, does it matter if the fasting days are done consecutively or should they be broken up sporadically? Should I avoid fasting on certain workout days (weight training days vs cardio days)?

    Then I'm curious about how many calories I should consume once I am able to eat. Should I severely restrict cals on fasting days and then eat at TDEE on nonfasting days? If so, how do I know how much to restrict? Also, I certainly don't want to do anything to hinder muscle building or cause muscle burn instead of fat burn, so should my diet be an overload of protein during my fasting days or do I just eat my normal suggested macros according to MFP? Currently I have been eating more protein on weight training days and more carbs/fats on cardio days.

    Lastly, I've read that you should do your workout while in a fasting state for optimal fat burn. Unfortunately with my work/family life schedule, I don't get to workout till later in the day and I will be well out of my fasting state by then. Is this a big deal or does it really matter about working out and fasting together? Right now I really, really, REALLY don't want to set back my feeding times to later in the day because that means I would spend the majority of my daytime fasting and I know I will be constantly thinking about food. I work a desk job so its hard to keep myself from not mindlessly eating anyway. I would suspect that having to fight that mindset of not getting to eat at all would greatly increase my chances of failing at this. I know that it would be more optimal to be in a fasting state while working out, but is it absolutely necessary and will I still see results if I don't?

    Thanks in advance for any info, testimonies, or suggestions! :happy:

    Be prepared to suffer from constipation, unless you are one of the lucky ones. I refuse to take magnesium etc to have body movements which was normal before starting IF.
  • MyssPhytt
    MyssPhytt Posts: 51 Member
    Options
    I wouldn't worry about not being able to work out fasted. It's not the huge benefit they once thought.

    Skipping breakfast 3x a week may not do anything, I'm not sure. Even with fasting, it all comes down to calories in vs. out. If skipping breakfast helps you limit your overall calories, it might help. Otherwise, probably not.

    I'm doing JUDDD (alternate days of 500 calories with maintenance level eating) and like it.

    I'm leaning more towards doing something like JUDDD of alternating days of very low cals (500 or lower) and around 1800 cals on the other days. I think I could stick to something like this knowing I can eat every other day but as someone else stated above, I don't want to just pig out and eat horrible on those up days. I would still try to stick to a fairly clean diet and not allow myself to get to the point of overeating or eating horrible foods.

    Only thing that scares me a bit is that on days when I have unintentionally had very low cals (being very busy, not having food handy, or just simply forgetting to eat - albeit very rare for me ), like eating a very late breakfast, I have been prone to getting weak spells, feeling faint, or having head-rush type sensations when getting up from a seated position too quickly. I also have a hard time having energy to complete my workouts when I feel like this. I'm sure that has a lot to do with my daily eating habits and not getting the adequate macro-nutrients and appropriate fats. Could also possibly be from not getting enough water....not sure, I'm usually pretty good about that.

    I typically do eat a very good breakfast and that is usually my highest caloric meal and I taper off as the day goes. In the past, I have had no problem fasting 12 hours daily, 7 pm to 7 am, and staying within a caloric deficit while working out 4-5 times a week, with 1 "cheat" day, but it seems that I have plateaued a bit with that . Maybe I didn't stick to it as good as I thought I was or maybe my cheat days were a little too good. That's why I want to give something else a try and change things up a bit.

    Thank you all for the info. Very, very informative stuff here!
  • MyssPhytt
    MyssPhytt Posts: 51 Member
    Options
    Be prepared to suffer from constipation, unless you are one of the lucky ones. I refuse to take magnesium etc to have body movements which was normal before starting IF.

    This was one of my concerns and hopefully I will be one of the "lucky ones". Typically I'm a fairly "regular" person thanks to coffee and bulk fiber from things like oatmeal, broccoli, and an apple a day. I don't take any added fiber or magnesium and I hope I don't ever have to. I think the key of drinking lots of water should help this also. Constipation caused from fasting would probably be a big deal breaker for me so I'm crossing my fingers that this wont be the case.
  • WalkingAlong
    WalkingAlong Posts: 4,926 Member
    Options
    http://www.lowcarbfriends.com/bbs/juddd/

    That's a fairly active JUDDD forum, and a nice bunch. I don't see talk of constipation but it could be a common thing. I think a lot of people get a lot of veggies into their 'down day' calories. Cabbage stir fry is popular. Also fiber supplementation.

    On the 500 calorie days, the challenge is more mental than physical, I think. But I can feel ok with a small infusion of calories, too. I just had a 40 calorie miso soup with an added egg white and sriracha and feel good to go, for example. In the book, Johnson recommends you sip on Atkins shakes as needed, throughout the day. But I think he wants to avoid miscounting so he recommends packaged, pre-portioned foods at first.
  • La5Vega5Girl
    La5Vega5Girl Posts: 709 Member
    Options
    . sorry triple post .
  • La5Vega5Girl
    La5Vega5Girl Posts: 709 Member
    Options
    .
  • La5Vega5Girl
    La5Vega5Girl Posts: 709 Member
    Options
    .
  • La5Vega5Girl
    La5Vega5Girl Posts: 709 Member
    Options
    Be prepared to suffer from constipation, unless you are one of the lucky ones. I refuse to take magnesium etc to have body movements which was normal before starting IF.

    This was one of my concerns and hopefully I will be one of the "lucky ones". Typically I'm a fairly "regular" person thanks to coffee and bulk fiber from things like oatmeal, broccoli, and an apple a day. I don't take any added fiber or magnesium and I hope I don't ever have to. I think the key of drinking lots of water should help this also. Constipation caused from fasting would probably be a big deal breaker for me so I'm crossing my fingers that this wont be the case.

    I never have had a problem with constipation and in fact, until this post never knew it was an issue for I.F.
    I do drink about 4 qt./day of water, so maybe that is why?
  • MyssPhytt
    MyssPhytt Posts: 51 Member
    Options
    Supposedly there is concern that fasting can mess up your normal bowel patterns, but I hear this less so than common. I would like to work up to 18:6 but I think as a test drive I will start at the 15:9. La5Vega5girl, how many cals do you shoot for on your down days vs up days?

    It is definitely going to be a mental challenge more than physical for me. So far today I think I'm doing fairly well. I made it a little over 15 hours and have only ate about 300 cals so far today. Ive definitely been drinking more water today than I normally do just to basically help me to feel full so its already helping me in that aspect. My stomach is angry at me and growling for food but I don't feel miserably starved yet. I made it through my weight lifting session a bit ago with a decent amount of energy and didn't seem to fatigue out too bad.

    One other question I had: Concerning cal burns during workouts while fasting, if I have a day where I am fasting but I end up burning more cals than I usually do, can I allow myself a bit more calories on down days? Like if I burn 500+ cals but I'm only supposed to be eating 500 cals, can I allow myself to eat an extra 100 cals or so? Basically, can you earn extra cals on your down days if you workout more? Or is this cheating and going against the whole process?
  • FitForL1fe
    FitForL1fe Posts: 1,872 Member
    Options
    I ran 16:8 for a few months this summer and found myself a bit too cranky while fasting, as well as being somewhat tired after having a 1200-1500 cal (out of 2500 daily) afternoon refeed meal. Now I'm just skipping breakfast and doing three meals (lunch, mid-afternoon, and a post-workout "dinner"), and it feels like a reasonable balance.

    I didn't experience any digestive issues running IF.

    I definitely did not enjoy fasted workouts. :mad:
  • WalkingAlong
    WalkingAlong Posts: 4,926 Member
    Options
    I haven't read the other IF books yet (but plan to) but the Johnson one says that you can eat more if you burn more that day, if you want. I'd be careful with anything huge, though. I got the impression he meant like go walk 2 miles to earn 150-200 more calories, that sort of thing. He claims there is something you activate (sirt1 gene) by going to say 20% of your maintenance calories, so if you're eating 800 or so, I'm not sure you'd get that effect (if it exists).

    Here's his calculator to estimate your best 'down day' deficit level:
    http://www.johnsonupdaydowndaydiet.com/html/how-to-do-the-diet.html

    It's a little troubling that he sells supplements. I'm anxious to read the Krista Varady book. I think most of the Johnson and Mosley plans rely on her research and their own experiments with themselves and Johnson's patients.

    He also didn't mention constipation, I don't think. I think he said the biggest thing to watch for was dehydration on 'down days'.
  • La5Vega5Girl
    La5Vega5Girl Posts: 709 Member
    Options
    i do not count calories.
    :love:

    i also eat keto so just basically eat whatever i want as long as it's in my feasting window. also, i don't have "down" or "up" days as i practice 18:6 every day of the week. (except of course when i do a 24-hour fast, but then, i consume zero calories)
  • La5Vega5Girl
    La5Vega5Girl Posts: 709 Member
    Options


    I definitely did not enjoy fasted workouts. :mad:

    i am the opposite, i work-out fasted every day and LOVE IT. :love:
    i feel so much stronger, very strange, i know!
    (i do take BCAA before working-out, but it has zero calories and zero carbs)
  • shabaity
    shabaity Posts: 791 Member
    Options
    I do 16:8 myself but I don't work out fasted doesn't sit well with the time frame I have to work out being at the very end of my fasted cycle and my blood sugar getting low.
  • FitForL1fe
    FitForL1fe Posts: 1,872 Member
    Options


    I definitely did not enjoy fasted workouts. :mad:

    i am the opposite, i work-out fasted every day and LOVE IT. :love:
    i feel so much stronger, very strange, i know!
    (i do take BCAA before working-out, but it has zero calories and zero carbs)

    I thought I would love it, but I was wrong :ohwell: didn't rock the BCAAs, though...

Categories