gastric bypass
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I agree.
Doctors may tell you that yo uneed to get psych evals and all that but in the end, they want you to get that expensive horrible surgery. If not, then why would they approve so many for people who are NOT morbidly obese? (I actually know a person who was mildly chubby and had it done. She looks like skeletor.)
I think that it was a big plan. Years ago "they" (conspiracy theorists, call it what you want) decided to call us all morbidly obese because "they" they realized the GBS was going to be the next big thing. So, tell the world they are morbidly obese and they can all get in line to get this expensive surgery. Then the REAL obese people, the ones who were on deaths door, got it. But then and now, the regular chubby to fat people say "Hey, I want that too becasue I don't want to do it on my own (my cousins daughter had it done and padded her body with more fat to pass inspection)." And voila, you have unnecessary deaths.
You can say a million times the any surgery is risky. That's tantamount to a stubborn smoker coming back with "Yeah, everything gives you cancer. Ya gotta die some way" after someone tells them they shoudl quit.
Bottom line, there ARE people who DON'T "need" it and get it anyway.
Yeah, yeah, I'm cranky today. That ish pisses me off.0 -
Nobody who hasn't tried eating small portions of healthy food for six months should have the surgery. There is risk involved. When you have had it, you must eat small portions of healthy food. If you cannot eat small portions of healthy food, you shouldn't even consider taking that risk because you're taking it for no reason.
The point is to force you to eat small amounts. It is not a choice after the surgery. Saying you can't have the surgery unless you can also eat that way by choice makes no sense at all.
The reason for that, though, is that if you don't have the willpower to eat smaller portions, the surgery will not be successful. Some people have actually endangered themselves by eating too much after the surgery and making themselves very ill.
That may be true in a very small percent of the cases, but people who do not have the will power to eat tiny portions of food on their own find success with WLS. To say that everyone without the will power to do it on their own will fail is just not true. Statistics will not back up that statement.0 -
You are making a lot of generalizations based on a few individual cases. You said " too many people take it lightly and go into it with the attitude that it's a quick and easy solution". How do you know? What's too many? I would think most people who have weight loss surgery are made aware of the risks, and extreme lifestyle changes in store for them. Are a few going to slip through the cracks, or choose to ignore the risks, absolutely, but to say many of them take it lightly is purely conjecture. The same goes for the surgeons doing the surgery. I don't think you are any more likely to have a surgeon do a bad job on WLS then you are to have a surgeon do a bad job on any other surgery. Surgeons are humans and just like any other profession in the world, some are good at what they do, some are excellent, some are just good enough to get by, some have high levels of integrity and some are scum bags. The same goes for mechanics, janitors, CEOs. etc.Where did I ever say I was judging people for having it? As I said in my second post, it is ultimately people's choice. But this is serious stuff and too many people take it lightly and go into it with the attitude that it's a quick and easy solution. And sadly, there are quack doctors out there who will fudge the safeguards in place because doing the surgery nets them more money. Again, not saying all doctors or all people who seek out the surgery are this way. But there is a subset of people who have this attitude, just as there are people here on MFP who, in spite of all the MFP warnings, still seek out the crash diets and easy fixes. I just want people to hear this so that maybe it makes them stop and really consider if they're willing to take that risk.
I've known 3 people who have had WLS. One, my aunt, gained a good chunk of the weight back. Another had to have hers reversed because of severe vitamin deficiencies and can now never lose weight again no matter what she does because she trashed her metabolism. The other is this lady who died from complications several years later. So not a single happy ending there. Can you see why this concerns me? I'm not saying that it should never happen, but people just need to think long and hard before resorting to it. And I know there are people here on MFP who have had it and done really well, but there are a lot of horror stories, too. All I'm saying is that if someone is considering it, be sure you know what you're getting into and how risky it is.0 -
All I'm saying is that if someone is considering it, be sure you know what you're getting into and how risky it is.
And I sure hope they balance that with the benefits:
There are 400,000 deaths attributable to obesity in the United States each year. Your anecdotes aside, actual scientific research shows that WLS is an effective method for producing weight loss in obese patients in both the short and long term. And WLS is associated with an 89% reduction in five-year mortality compared to obese patients. Those with WLS are found to have decreased cancer, cardiovascular and circulatory conditions, diabetes, and respiratory conditions. (source: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1356432/)
But - you argue! - that's the easy fix! All these benefits can come also from good old fashioned weight loss. Suck it up, buttercup. Put down the fork. Eat less, move more.
Except our friend science is clear on this too: Lifestyle change does not work for most people. (the source for this was quoted by a different poster above).
So do these weight loss failures just deserve to die? Do they deserve diabetes and hypertension and a reduction in their quality of life because they can't do what I did, go from morbid obesity to a healthy BMI through lifestyle changes alone? (sidenote: I am two years into maintaining this loss, but those with WLS still have better predicted outcomes than I do).
Dr. Yoni Freedhoff put this anti-surgery bias best, in my opinion. And it should be noted that he is a weight loss physician, NOT a surgeon; he makes no money off bariatric surgery:
"Yet many MDs, allied health professionals and health reporters, including some who I know, respect, and admire, are taking this opportunity to discuss how we shouldn't be looking to surgical solutions for diabetes because patients could instead use their forks and feet. While there's no argument about the fact that in a ideal world everyone would take it upon themselves to live the healthiest lives possible, there's two problems with that argument. Firstly, not everyone is interested in changing their lifestyle, and secondly, statistically speaking, the majority of even those who are interested and successful with lifestyle change will ultimately regress - the simple fact remains that we don't yet have a proven, reproducible and sustainable approach to lifestyle change.
And what of those folks not wanting to change? I say, "so what?". Since when did MDs, allied health professionals or health columnists earn the right to judge others on their abilities or desires to change? Our job is to provide patients with information - all information - including information on lifestyle change, medical management and surgery. We can even provide patients with our opinions as to which road we think may be best for them, and why, but honestly, given the results from these studies, I'm not sure how anyone could make an evidence based case that surgery isn't a very real and powerful option that ought to be discussed with all of their type 2 diabetics with overweight or obesity.
Unless of course that someone has some form of weight (or simply anti-surgery) bias.
Let me give you another example. Let's say there was a surgical procedure that folks with breast cancer could undergo that would reduce their risk of breast cancer recurrence by roughly 30%. Do you think anyone would question a woman's desire to have it? I can't imagine. And yet lifestyle - weight loss and exercise has indeed been shown to reduce risk of breast cancer recurrence by 30%. Think people would dare suggest the women choosing surgery were, "taking the easy way out", that they should just use their forks and feet?
We've got to get over ourselves.
Until we have a proven, remotely comparable, reproducible, sustainable, non-surgical option, if you bash the surgical option on its surface for being "easy", or "wrong", you might want to do a bit of soul searching as to whether or not you're practicing good medical caution, or if instead you're practicing plain, old, irrational bias."
http://www.weightymatters.ca/2014/04/should-we-be-treating-type-2-diabetes.html0 -
I am a gastric bypass survivor.
I would rather have a chance to be thin and healthy and relearn my bad habits (like I am doing now and will do for the rest of my life) and have a chance at a longer life than continue to be obese. I was thin when I was in high school, then I became morbidly obese in the years after and was that way for 10+ years and tried to get it under control and couldn't. My body prevented me from even walking long distances...let alone working out enough to lose weight with proper nutrition on top.
I'll take my chance at a normal life with all the risks that come with this way of life after surgery than the other complications that come from being fat as I was before. When you are as over weight as I was, dying to be thin...didn't sound so bad. To this day, I know that is still a likely possibility and take every precaution to make sure it doesn't happen. But if it does...then that was my choice. I don't regret anything I've done to get here. For the first time in my life, I actually love my body and how I look. That is priceless to me. I have also counselled 2 friends of mine and 1 had the surgery in February (has successfully lost over 90 pounds) and another is now going to get it and is awaiting the insurance approval now. It's not really about willpower, it's about addiction. You have to change your relationship to food.0 -
my co-workers niece never made it out of the hospital/surgery center when she had hers done. Also, my son is an ER nurse, and has seen his fair share of problems related to any WLS. he told me that if he found out I was ever considering it, he would chain me down! so I'm trying to do it the old-fashioned way, cut back the calories and exercise. I'm not a patient person, I want instant results. but I'm been on the wagon for almost 7 weeks now, and 20 pounds down. I'm just looking forward to looking back on all this and saying why didn't I do this sooner (rather than wait until I was 55)! good luck to anyone who has the WLS.0
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I'm very sorry to hear about this woman's death. However:
1) A great number of people die each year from complications associated with morbid obesity - heart disease, primarily.
(2) Studies have consistently shown that for some people, gastric bypass is a lifesaving surgery.
(3) All surgeries carry with them inherent risks of infection or other complications.
(4) No one who has gastric does so on a whim. The requirements of insurance companies and doctors include education, counseling, pre-surgery dieting, and, as with all surgery and medical treatments, consent must be given after being informed of the risks.
(5) 117 people a day die in car accidents in the US. DO YOUR RESEARCH before getting in a car, people! It can be incredibly risky. You think you'll be fine...until you aren't.
(for the record, I did not have gastic bypass or weight loss surgery, but I'm friends with several who did - people who worked hard before, work hard now, and most definitely knew the risks and benefits of going forward).
I've worked as a dietitian in hospitals for 10 years and I have seen that, unfortunately, #4 does not always happen.0 -
Wow that is so sad....and scary!0
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Thanks for sharing the story. Very sad, indeed. Doctors have urged my morbidly obese and T2 diabetic mother for decades to lose weight. She has had several surgeries related to her weight (2 back surgeries, hip replacement, repair of shoulder joint degeneration due to T2D, 2 angioplasties/stents). She has also survived a type of NHL cancer associated with obesity. And yes--all these surgeries carry serious risks! The bottom line is she's unwilling to eat less. Admonishes any hospital doctor with the gall to put her on a calorie restricted diet, or even a diabetic diet!
She did have one or 2 WLS consultations and scoffed at the pre-surgical diet requirement. "I wouldn't need the surgery if I could stick to the diet." I respect that the choices people face often balance considerable risks on both sides, and I respect people who are willing and able to change their health behaviors.
On another note, my husband works with financially troubled companies. He worked with a doctor-owned hospital focused almost exclusively on elective surgeries--lots of WLS. The business ethics demonstrated among the MD owners would send shivers down your spine. Not saying all doctors are bad, but nor are all doctors ethical. Buyer beware.0 -
I did it the poor mans way of busting my *kitten* in the gym and clean eating. It can be done for those that really want results work their *kitten* off. 130lbs down and feeling wonderful. I understand if there is health issues that stop you from walking but I seen people that can do it on their own and just go straight for this procedure for a short cut instead of getting out and sweating. I don't respect those kind at all IMO. Go Hard or Go Home!!!!!! MFP!0
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It makes tons of sense to doctors, nurses, dietitians, insurance companies, some of the patients and anyone who has any sense at all. That's why it's a requirement and standard of practice where these surgeries are concerned.Nobody who hasn't tried eating small portions of healthy food for six months should have the surgery. There is risk involved. When you have had it, you must eat small portions of healthy food. If you cannot eat small portions of healthy food, you shouldn't even consider taking that risk because you're taking it for no reason.
The point is to force you to eat small amounts. It is not a choice after the surgery. Saying you can't have the surgery unless you can also eat that way by choice makes no sense at all.
Unfortunately, they don't always ensure that it has happened and people have the surgery without learning how they have to eat after the surgery, which sometimes leads to medical complications and (often) gaining all the weight back.0 -
It makes tons of sense to doctors, nurses, dietitians, insurance companies, some of the patients and anyone who has any sense at all. That's why it's a requirement and standard of practice where these surgeries are concerned.Nobody who hasn't tried eating small portions of healthy food for six months should have the surgery. There is risk involved. When you have had it, you must eat small portions of healthy food. If you cannot eat small portions of healthy food, you shouldn't even consider taking that risk because you're taking it for no reason.
The point is to force you to eat small amounts. It is not a choice after the surgery. Saying you can't have the surgery unless you can also eat that way by choice makes no sense at all.
Unfortunately, they don't always ensure that it has happened and people have the surgery without learning how they have to eat after the surgery, which sometimes leads to medical complications and (often) gaining all the weight back.
Again, the rate of gaining the weight back after WLS is much less than with calorie counting.
What makes you think that eating these tiny amounts of food before surgery is a requirement? What agency monitors the requirements?0 -
I don't mean this as a personal attack, but I see you've lost 11 pounds.
When you've lost over 100 pounds and kept it off for 5 years, you can be an expert, but until then, it might be best to keep your opinions on effective weight loss strategies to yourself.
I realize that you are well-intentioned, but you have no idea why your distant acquaintance actually became septic, as I'm sure you're not privy to her medical records. I also would guess that you have not read any of the evidence based practice or scientific studies regarding the safety or efficacy of weight loss surgery.
There are many of us on these boards who are healthy, fit, happy and maintaining huge losses after weight loss surgery. There are also many people who have lost weight and are maintaining without weight loss surgery. Everyone has their own path, and while I recognize your good intentions, you might be well-served to focus on your own health, fitness and weight loss without judging others.0 -
I'm very sorry to hear about this woman's death. However:
1) A great number of people die each year from complications associated with morbid obesity - heart disease, primarily.
(2) Studies have consistently shown that for some people, gastric bypass is a lifesaving surgery.
(3) All surgeries carry with them inherent risks of infection or other complications.
(4) No one who has gastric does so on a whim. The requirements of insurance companies and doctors include education, counseling, pre-surgery dieting, and, as with all surgery and medical treatments, consent must be given after being informed of the risks.
(5) 117 people a day die in car accidents in the US. DO YOUR RESEARCH before getting in a car, people! It can be incredibly risky. You think you'll be fine...until you aren't.
(for the record, I did not have gastic bypass or weight loss surgery, but I'm friends with several who did - people who worked hard before, work hard now, and most definitely knew the risks and benefits of going forward).
THIS^^^^0 -
I had the Rn Y 9/23, after trying to lose weight for almost ten years, i was so worried about my health that I went for the surgery. For all those of you who say it is the easy way, you are so wrong. You have to be committed to the surgery two years prior. You have to have two years working with a doctor to lose weight on your own, you have see a psychologist, you have to have nutrition classes before you can even get approved for the surgery. I was skinny as a child and teenager, it was after my daughter that I couldn't maintain my weight, but that was not from trying or caring. I do not see this as a quick fix or a fast track. It is very hard to fight your mind and do what needs to be done.0
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Do you actually know anyone who had WLS as a first option? I don't.
Also, have you read the actual research on successful outcomes of dieting/exercising vs WLS on the long-term? (spoiler alert: They have a lower risk of gaining it all back than I do).
I, unfortunately, do. She has now regained all the weight because she came into it thinking that she was cheating the system and everything would be hunky dory afterward. She also had gone into the doctor's office padded so that she qualified for the surgery.
She is obviously not the norm, but those people do exist.
LOLOL..padded, what?! Ridiculous
Statistically, less than 1% of bariatric patients die.0 -
What many need to understand is that WLS is a "tool" to help you retrain yourself on good healthy lifestyle changes. If you don't clearly have that understanding before going into it, yes there is a grave probability of failure (weight gain & other health deficiencies). You still have to choose to eat healthy and "sweat your *** off in exercise" to lose the weight. Over the years you will have ups and downs in weight just like someone who didn't have the surgery. You will have to take vitamins (as you should anyway around age 40-), and keep up with annual health exams just as everyone else. If you listen to your body and if for the rest of your life follow the instructions of your doctor many have had a successful and productive life with WLS. For millions it has been a blessing rather than continuing generations of family health deficiencies.
Not trying to be coy, but whether you have the surgery or not you could be hit by a bus and killed tomorrow. So enjoy life as best you can! No one but the Father knows when your time will on this earth will expire.0 -
I am going to chime in here... I personally know of three people who have had this surgery... all three have had severe complications years later, as a direct result of the surgery... Does that make me an expert? no, not at all...all three of these individuals "tried" to lose weight the old fashioned way (eating right, exercising)...truth is, they didn't try hard enough... I don't buy this crap about "I tried everything and it didn't work"... I was one of those... I have been overweight MY ENTIRE LIFE... weighing in at an all time high at the age of 50... 270 lbs. Today, at the age of 59, I have successfully lost one half of myself... if not more (don't weigh on the scale so don't know for sure... another story, another time)... I went from wearing a size 26-28 to a size 4. And I did it by myself... It took me 57 1/2 years to figure it out, but I did it even when I said I can't do it.
I don't think there is enough research out there to validate anyone choosing to have elective surgery (and yes, I did say "elective"... don't tell me I don't know what I am talking about!). As for the "psychological" testing... uh yeah whatever... I have a family member who administered those tests for the psychologist and she eventually got out of this line of work because of the crap the doctors were scoring on...
So, go ahead and blast me if it makes you feel better...I don't care. I did what I said I could never do... and that was to lose weight successfully... will I keep it off forever? I don't know... but I sure as hell know that WLS doesn't guarentee keeping it off either.0 -
I had gastric bypass a little over 2 months ago. I can honestly say that this is one of the hardest roads I've ever taken in my life, but it has been completely worth it, and I wouldn't change my decision if I had to do it all again. This surgery has given me my life back, encouraged family and friends to take control of their own health, and yeah... I've lost some weight along the way. Having bypass wasn't about looking good in a swim suit for me. It was about breaking free from the control that my weight had taken over me. Any doctor worth his salt will put patients through rigorous pre-testing, psych screenings, nutritional consults. My doctor was painfully honest with me at one point, and said I don't know if you're ready to make these changes... he was right. That conversation made me re evaluate where I was headed and how I was going to proceed in order to be successful. As of today, I'm down 85lbs, 45 inches, 8 pants sizes, my back and knees don't hurt anymore when I walk, I exercise daily and ENJOY IT, I am eating to live instead of living to eat. I have been given a new lease on life. This surgery was not a magic wand or a quick fix. There have been many tears shed throughout this process. I am still very much addicted to carbs, sugars, and generally all things nutritionally bad for me. I struggle with these things every single day, and constantly evaluate the nutritional content of the things I put into my body. The bottom line with bypass surgery is if you follow the guidelines that you're given, take your vitamins and protein seriously, and commit yourself to lifelong change you will be successful.0
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in my area, it is a 2 year wait before you even get an orientation/info session about the surgeries and risks. during that time, we are expected to maintain current weight (not go up) or reduce weight. they weigh you with each appointment. part of the application process is to list all the diets that have failed you in the past. weight watchers x3, nutrisystem, canada food guide, you name it. even trying to follow MFP the first time failed miserably.
you will not be accepted into the program if this is your first or second shot at losing weight. they require you to track everything on MFP every day since your first nutritionist appointment until the day of surgery (and beyond). it is made very clear that this is not a miracle cure, it is a tool to make your portions small.
it is also made clear that there ARE risks to surgery. 1/200 people die on the table. they don't sugar coat it or anything. and after the initial orientation, they make sure you have realistic expectations. if not, they delay you for another few months at a time until they believe that you are truly ready to accept the repercussions of having surgery.
yes, some people have complications and a few of them die, but we know that before we go in. we don't go in blind.0
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