Intermittent Fasting Questions
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I do the 5:2 plan where two days I eat 500 calories and then eat at TDEE the other days of the week (and, yes, fast days are supposed to be non-consecutive). I also tend to save my 500 calories for dinner rather than break them up into two smaller meals.
I put off trying this for a long time because I thought it would just be waaaaay too hard. But, I was pleasantly surprised by how manageable it was. If I eat a protein-heavy dinner the night before (which I make sure I do), I don't even really start to get hungry until about 2 - 4 pm. So, I really only have to battle through a few hours until 6 pm when I have my dinner (so I end up with a 24 hour fast or so). If I keep busy, I don't notice it at all. And, sipping green tea or water pretty much gets me through it. It's actually shockingly easy for me.
Then, the rest of the days I eat at TDEE or less (if I'm just not hungry for the extra calories). I've found that there are plenty of days where I eat below my TDEE because I just don't feel like I need them, though it's nice to that they're there if needed. I feel that IFing has really helped teach me about hunger and only eating when I'm truly hungry, rather than out habit, boredom, emotional reaction, etc.
I found the 5:2 system (and occasionally I'll throw in an extra day for 4:3) to be really manageable and a much easier way of creating my weekly deficit than daily restriction. And, so far, I haven't hit any plateaus -- in fact, it was what helped me break my previous plateau. I don't know if the calorie cycling helps prevent hormonal stress reactions (cortisol, leptin, insulin sensitivity, etc.) which can stall weight loss or if it's something else. But, it is working for me right now and it will be my way of eating for the rest of my life.0 -
You asked for testimonials, so here's mine. A lot of people-mainly women-don't find success with IF. It really isn't a one-size fits all approach. However, I strongly suggest at least trying it!
That being said, I have found huge success with IF. I do 20:4 and it really works out for me. I've struggled with trying to find a diet that fits me and my lifestyle for a loooong time now. I've done counting calories, paleo, etc. They always work but I tire of them quickly. I read a quote somewhere that said, "Normal diets are easy in the contemplation, hard in the execution. IF is hard in the contemplation, yet easy in the execution."
People always ask me, "ARENT YOU STARVING?!" Nope. Not really. I drink a lot of water throughout the day and some coffee and it keeps me satisfied until my 4pm feeding window starts. I workout fasted, at 2pm. The first 2 minutes are agonizing, but then I can literally feel my body switching from easy glucose to my fat stores & I'm FILLED with energy. It's unlike anything I've ever felt before.
I love IF. It's definitely not for everyone, but I eat less, eat better, have more energy, and have gotten over my emotional dependence on food. It really has changed my life. Try it out for a few weeks!0 -
It looks like you are trying to mix 2 forms of IF. The 16:8 and 5:2
I would suggest you try one or the other and see how it goes. I personally do 5:2 and love it. I eat 500 calories twice a week and around TDEE other days. Timing of eating does not matter.
I THINK for 16:8, you do it everyday, and have a 8 hour eating window.
It seems people have success with both, but I think combining the 2 is just going to make it unnecessarily complicated.
good luck0 -
It looks like you are trying to mix 2 forms of IF. The 16:8 and 5:2
I would suggest you try one or the other and see how it goes. I personally do 5:2 and love it. I eat 500 calories twice a week and around TDEE other days. Timing of eating does not matter.
I THINK for 16:8, you do it everyday, and have a 8 hour eating window.
It seems people have success with both, but I think combining the 2 is just going to make it unnecessarily complicated.
good luck
So is the 5:2 basically just a calorie restriction and the 16:8 an actual fast? Right now I am loosely following the JUDDD format which seems to be an alternate day fasting with restriction. The restriction is required for obvious reasons, but the fast is required to active the SIRT1 gene to optimize fat burning and reduce hunger, among other things. But maybe I'm confused on how JUDDD is supposed to work. Like I said, I've only minimally read about it on websites/forums.0 -
Doing JUDDD, you don't have to worry about any eating window. If it's a 'down day', you get 500 calories (or 20% of your maintenance, if you'd rather) all day, however you want to split them up. A 'day' is not 'dinnertime last night to dinnertime tonight'. It's not eating more than 500 calories during your whole waking day.
As in:
Sunday: eat TDEE
Monday: eat 500
Tues: eat TDEE
Wed.: eat 500
And so on. The day is from the time you wake up to the time you wake up the next day.0 -
I did IF for 3 years straight and had great success. I currently only do it during fat loss phases (cutting) as I find it easier to not restrict when I eat when my goal is muscle gaining (bulking). That's not to say you can't do IF on a bulk but I eat 3500+ calories on a bulk and squeezing that into 8 hours is tough and provides no real benefit in that scenario.
You still seem a bit confused on the types of fasting. ADF (alternate day fasting), 5:2, 4:3 all refer to eating something around maintenance calories on non fasting days, having them whenever you want on that day (no feeding window) and then having very few to no calories on fasting days. IF (intermittent fasting) is having a feeding window everyday and sticking to it (16:8 being most popular). You do not need to have an 8 hour window on feeding days if you are doing 5:2, nor do you need super low/no calorie days if you are doing 16:8.
My best advice is to pick one or the other, and do it all the time. If you pick 16:8 do it every day. It takes a few days to a few weeks to get used to it and if you stop doing it each weekend, it can make the transition difficult. Regardless of which method you pick, your overall weekly caloric deficit is what is going to drive results. So if you eat 2000 calories for 5 days, and 500 calories for 2 fasting days, your weekly average is 1571calories. If you do 16:8 and eat 1570 calories every day, you will have VERY similar results. If you don't fast at all and eat 1570 every day, you will have very similar results. IF or ADF is best used to enhance compliance. Which of those plans above seems the easiest for you to stick to? That's how you should determine which you want to try. If you can't decide try one, see how it works. If you find it hard to stick to, try another method. No one is better then any other so the best one is simply the one you can stick to the easiest. If all the methods seem like more trouble then just eating whenever you want and hitting your goals, then I would say abandon IF all together. Remember though, if you are not in a deficit, no matter what fasting method (if any) you do, you will not lose weight. Thermodynamics > fasting. CICO always applies.
The same goes for fasted training. Any boost you get to fat burning isn't going to be huge. If you find it difficult to impossible to train fasted either because you don't feel good doing it, or you schedule doesn't allow it, don't worry about it. The important thing is that you train, and train hard. Make sure you are on a quality training program that has you hitting all body parts 2-3 times a week.
As far as constipation, YMMV. I never had any issues. Again, IF and ADF is all about making your diet work better for you. If you find that you are working very hard to make the eating schedules "fit" then you are probably not a good candidate for them. You ultimately want an eating schedule that works for you, not an eating schedule that you have to work for. Try one or try them both. Give them a fair amount of time as well. Don't panic after 2 or 3 days and quit. I found it took 3 weeks initially for me to adjust. Good luck.0 -
I agree. But just for the sake of discussion, I think Johnson and Mosley (author of 5:2) claim there is some unique benefit to the spans of fasting. Who knows. Johnson claims it activates some special gene that helps fat loss (sirt1). Mosley claims it reduces some compound (igf-1) that causes cancer and other bads. Probably neither here nor there, but interesting to consider. They've known for decades that they can increase lifespan of mice by 40% through calorie restriction.Regardless of which method you pick, your overall weekly caloric deficit is what is going to drive results. So if you eat 2000 calories for 5 days, and 500 calories for 2 fasting days, your weekly average is 1571calories. If you do 16:8 and eat 1570 calories every day, you will have VERY similar results. If you don't fast at all and eat 1570 every day, you will have very similar results.0 -
I feel like the research just isn't there yet to prove anything solid about IF. I really think it is something that potentially has loads of benefits to it and that with time, research might prove many of them. Currently however, having read quite a bit of the relevant research available on IF, I think it's too early to say it's definitively anything more then an alternate style of feeding one's self.
I agree. But just for the sake of discussion, I think Johnson and Mosley (author of 5:2) claim there is some unique benefit to the spans of fasting. Who knows. Johnson claims it activates some special gene that helps fat loss (sirt1). Mosley claims it reduces some compound (igf-1) that causes cancer and other bads. Probably neither here nor there, but interesting to consider. They've known for decades that they can increase lifespan of mice by 40% through calorie restriction.Regardless of which method you pick, your overall weekly caloric deficit is what is going to drive results. So if you eat 2000 calories for 5 days, and 500 calories for 2 fasting days, your weekly average is 1571calories. If you do 16:8 and eat 1570 calories every day, you will have VERY similar results. If you don't fast at all and eat 1570 every day, you will have very similar results.0 -
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Be prepared to suffer from constipation, unless you are one of the lucky ones. I refuse to take magnesium etc to have body movements which was normal before starting IF.
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What? First I've heard of this. I've been doing IF for a while now and I'm better than ever, in that regard.
Anyway...OP, check out this group:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/groups/home/49-intermittent-fasting
I fast daily from 10 pm to noon/2 pm-ish, depending on when I get hungry. I've never been a "breakfast" eater, even when I was overweight. I'm maintaining now, so I eat my TDEE daily. While I was losing, I ate like this, just at a slight deficit, but again the same amount of calories each day. (Eating the same each day works best for me. I tried 5:2 but always went way over by the second day of the week, because I was starving.)0 -
I agree with above posters regarding read and check out things for yourself, so you can make up your own mind about what probably will work best for you. There are tons of real-life experience on the official http://thefastdiet.co.uk/ and a good FAQ that should cover most of your questions:)
That said, I love this eating plan. I'm finally loosing weight after trying for a loooong time. 3 kg in less than 3 weeks. Interestingly enough, I lost most of it in my belly, a bit in arm and almost none in chest or hips. Yeah, that's 7 cm (2.7 inches) !
I'm doing a combo of 5:2 and Leangains with eating window between 12-8. Never liked breakfast anyway. I exercise cardio primarily, walks and strength as I see fit.
I don't know if cutting and bulking works with IF. There are plenty of shredded guys on youtube talking about IF, that would suggest it does. Maybe ask them? since you have a very specific goal in mind. Or find someone here on MFP with similar goals as you.
Yes, you will be hungry now and then. Accept it, the reward is tenfold.
Good luck:)0 -
Yeah, I'd really like to read the Krista Varady book. I keep waiting for a local library to get it but I think I'll just spring for it on kindle. She's been researching it the longest and has the best qualifications. Johnson's a plastic surgeon. Mosley's a journalist with MD training he seems to have only used as a journalist.
I feel like the research just isn't there yet to prove anything solid about IF. I really think it is something that potentially has loads of benefits to it and that with time, research might prove many of them. Currently however, having read quite a bit of the relevant research available on IF, I think it's too early to say it's definitively anything more then an alternate style of feeding one's self.
I agree. But just for the sake of discussion, I think Johnson and Mosley (author of 5:2) claim there is some unique benefit to the spans of fasting. Who knows. Johnson claims it activates some special gene that helps fat loss (sirt1). Mosley claims it reduces some compound (igf-1) that causes cancer and other bads. Probably neither here nor there, but interesting to consider. They've known for decades that they can increase lifespan of mice by 40% through calorie restriction.Regardless of which method you pick, your overall weekly caloric deficit is what is going to drive results. So if you eat 2000 calories for 5 days, and 500 calories for 2 fasting days, your weekly average is 1571calories. If you do 16:8 and eat 1570 calories every day, you will have VERY similar results. If you don't fast at all and eat 1570 every day, you will have very similar results.
I can read Varady's published research but I'm sure the book puts it in a more interesting, readable format.0 -
Ok let me see if I can get this to make sense as to why I am sort of doing a bit of both methods....
I do the 16:8 to basically get my body to go through my glucose stores, then onto stored carbs, then to fat burning and also for stimulating SIRT1 (if theoretically all that works). But also, because I'm eating later in the day and only have a certain time frame for eating, it makes it easier for me to restrict calories to a greater degree because I simply can't eat as much food in a smaller time frame as I would feel miserably full. In general, I don't eat large meals, but I do eat often. In other words, the act of fasting helps me to cut back more on calories, so why not take advantage of that and fast/restrict together but in an alternate fashion so I'm not fasting all the time nor am I restricting all the time? Its basically a method for me to eat at a deficit easier while reaping the benefits of an occasional fast. On non-fasting/non-restricting days I eat as close to my normal deficit, but no more than my maintenance level. Then if my deficits are sufficient perhaps I can have a splurge day on a weekend without it completely sabotaging my entire week. Also, doing this helps me to realize true hunger versus habitual eating. Before trying any of this, I was finding that if I ate at my usual deficit every single day, I wanted to keep eating and still felt hungry all the time. I felt like I was planning my whole day around food and even when I knew I had already ate plenty of calories and should be full, I still wanted to eat. It seemed that eating food all the time (even within a deficit) stimulated the "want" for more food. So I already knew restriction was important as it is required for weight loss, but now it seems the fasting is just as important to help me distinguish when I am truly hungry and getting by for periods of time without having to have food constantly. Of course, I plan to still listen to my body and adjusting accordingly to other factors like how active I am on certain days or if I feel weak and unable to get through my workouts, then I know I need to make a change. I know it sounds like a lot to take on and a bit complicating but it seems the two methods work hand-in-hand greatly for me. Its a trial and error basis right now and I am sure it will take some tweaking until I figure out what works best.0 -
This is interesting. I never made the differentiation between ADF and IF that Vismal is. I always thought ADF was 4:3 where you're literally fasting every other day, where essentially ADF was a type of IF. But IF was a bigger umbrella term that encompassed more, including 16:8 window or the 5:2 plan.
I know I do 5:2 and from when I read the book, they said you could divide up your 500 calories between two meals if you had to but would get greater benefits if you could hold them all until dinner -- because you'd have the full 24 hour fasting period from dinner to dinner. I don't remember the specific of the genes/hormones, but I thought it was related to increased insulin sensitivity and IGF-2 which deals with cellular repair. I was particularly interested in the increased insulin sensitivity since I'm insulin resistant and that's why I was hoping I'd be able to hold out for the full 24 hour fast, which I ultimately found quite manageable. In fact, I found it easier than dividing into two meals throughout the day. When I did that, I found myself hungrier and it taking waaaay more will power to stick to 500 calories (or 25% of your TDEE) than if I just held everything until dinnertime.0 -
Technically 16:8 and 5:2, 4:3 could all be called intermittent fasting. Technically eating for 16 hours and sleeping for 8 could be called intermittent fasting. I guess you could say all alternate day fasting is intermittent fasting, but not all intermittent fasting is alternate day fasting.This is interesting. I never made the differentiation between ADF and IF that Vismal is. I always thought ADF was 4:3 where you're literally fasting every other day, where essentially ADF was a type of IF. But IF was a bigger umbrella term that encompassed more, including 16:8 window or the 5:2 plan.
I know I do 5:2 and from when I read the book, they said you could divide up your 500 calories between two meals if you had to but would get greater benefits if you could hold them all until dinner -- because you'd have the full 24 hour fasting period from dinner to dinner. I don't remember the specific of the genes/hormones, but I thought it was related to increased insulin sensitivity and IGF-2 which deals with cellular repair. I was particularly interested in the increased insulin sensitivity since I'm insulin resistant and that's why I was hoping I'd be able to hold out for the full 24 hour fast, which I ultimately found quite manageable. In fact, I found it easier than dividing into two meals throughout the day. When I did that, I found myself hungrier and it taking waaaay more will power to stick to 500 calories (or 25% of your TDEE) than if I just held everything until dinnertime.0 -
Technically 16:8 and 5:2, 4:3 could all be called intermittent fasting. Technically eating for 16 hours and sleeping for 8 could be called intermittent fasting. I guess you could say all alternate day fasting is intermittent fasting, but not all intermittent fasting is alternate day fasting.This is interesting. I never made the differentiation between ADF and IF that Vismal is. I always thought ADF was 4:3 where you're literally fasting every other day, where essentially ADF was a type of IF. But IF was a bigger umbrella term that encompassed more, including 16:8 window or the 5:2 plan.
I know I do 5:2 and from when I read the book, they said you could divide up your 500 calories between two meals if you had to but would get greater benefits if you could hold them all until dinner -- because you'd have the full 24 hour fasting period from dinner to dinner. I don't remember the specific of the genes/hormones, but I thought it was related to increased insulin sensitivity and IGF-2 which deals with cellular repair. I was particularly interested in the increased insulin sensitivity since I'm insulin resistant and that's why I was hoping I'd be able to hold out for the full 24 hour fast, which I ultimately found quite manageable. In fact, I found it easier than dividing into two meals throughout the day. When I did that, I found myself hungrier and it taking waaaay more will power to stick to 500 calories (or 25% of your TDEE) than if I just held everything until dinnertime.
Gotcha. That's what I thought the differentiation was but was interested in what you knew -- thanks for the clarification.0 -
I definitely did not enjoy fasted workouts. :mad:
i am the opposite, i work-out fasted every day and LOVE IT.
i feel so much stronger, very strange, i know!
(i do take BCAA before working-out, but it has zero calories and zero carbs)
I thought I would love it, but I was wrong :ohwell: didn't rock the BCAAs, though...
using the BCAA's made a HUGE difference in my lifting. i can lift much heavier when i use them. (sometimes i run out the door to the gym and forget to drink it)
try watermelon flavor of the brand USP Labs. i got it at GNC, zero carbs and tastes great.
10g about 30 min before i work-out.0 -
It looks like you are trying to mix 2 forms of IF. The 16:8 and 5:2
I would suggest you try one or the other and see how it goes. I personally do 5:2 and love it. I eat 500 calories twice a week and around TDEE other days. Timing of eating does not matter.
I THINK for 16:8, you do it everyday, and have a 8 hour eating window.
It seems people have success with both, but I think combining the 2 is just going to make it unnecessarily complicated.
good luck
yes i agree. i didn't like 5:2 at all. i am a consistency freak so the 18:6 works better for me because it's every single day.0 -
Bumping this thread because it discusses something I've been trying to determine myself. I've been following Varady's ADF for about 12 weeks now - so limiting myself to 500 calories every other day and eating whatever I want on the other days. My weight loss has been slower than I had hoped. Averaging 0.7 lbs/week, but I also don't have a lot to lose, live a pretty sedentary lifestyle, and am at the point in my life where things are starting to slow down.
My husband recently decided to join me, but he didn't stay on ADF for very long before switching over to a 16:8 IF. I had read about the benefits of fasting in regards to SIRT1 and IGF-1 and started comparing what he was doing to what I was doing and realized I was only getting the benefits of a fast every other day, and he was getting them every day.
For about 2 weeks I tried changing my schedule where I would eat my 500 calories in the early afternoon - allowing me an 18hr fast both before and after my meal and matching the number of fasts he was getting a week, which according to the Leangains diet is the optimum length of fasting. (It's only supposed to be 14hrs for women, but I figured I'd try it with 18.) I found it hard to avoid dinner. It also seemed like I was having more side effects like headaches and just feeling "off", but that could have been attributed to something else.
I look forward to the day when there is more research on SIRT1 and IGF-1. I still favor Varady's research and wish she would include it in her studies. She seems the most valid of the 3 in terms of ADF. The others seem to be out to make money, and she seems more interested in the research than selling books. Also my neighbor works with her, so how can I ignore that.
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I am doing a calorie cycling diet routine to maintain weight and lose fat, and Intermittent Fasting is a staple in this program. I fast 16 hours 4 days per week on cardio days with a slight calorie deficit.
On strength training days I eat to a slight surplus and do not fast.
My macro's are balanced for each day as well.
I know egg heads argue and debate these issues, and they've already began here
I just tried it for myself, and in 3 years of weight maintenance, I have cut 3 inches off my belly and went from 22% body fat down to 15%. It's a slow process that is steady but sure. Others have gotten results using different methods, so who knows?
Try it for yourself. Good Luck!
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I am doing a calorie cycling diet routine to maintain weight and lose fat, and Intermittent Fasting is a staple in this program. I fast 16 hours 4 days per week on cardio days with a slight calorie deficit.
On strength training days I eat to a slight surplus and do not fast.
My macro's are balanced for each day as well.
I know egg heads argue and debate these issues, and they've already began here
I just tried it for myself, and in 3 years of weight maintenance, I have cut 3 inches off my belly and went from 22% body fat down to 15%. It's a slow process that is steady but sure. Others have gotten results using different methods, so who knows?
Try it for yourself. Good Luck!
First off thank you for your info and congrats to you! That's a great transformation! Just to update everyone since starting this thread, I have been doing about a 16 hr fast 3 days a week, alternating days, and I am trying to also make those days a bit of restriction in calories to 1,000 or less. The rest of the days I am eating at about maintenance or a bit less. Its been going quite well and right off the bat in the first week or two I dropped a few pounds, but thanks to a week of vacation and some bad eating habits and not working out as much, I gained a bit of that back. So I'm back into doing my fasting/restricting schedule again.
You said you fast on cardio days and eat at a surplus on strength training days, I realize now that my fasting days land on my strength training days. Should I be fasting on cardio days instead? I am however keeping my macros more in check on fasting days and really increasing the protein and trying to cut more on carbs to try to help keep me fuller longer and help with the fasting/restricting, but coincidentally I thought it would also help with strengthening since I realized I was doing it on those days also. The rest of the days I just try to stay within Fitnesspal's suggested macros. But will fasting on strength training days hinder my strength and muscle building? Should I be using my higher calorie days to fuel my strength training and use my cardio days to help boost calorie burns on fasting days? As I have said before, I just want to make sure I am making the best of my calorie burns and not doing anything to sabotage the strengthening along the way. I didn't really plan for my fasting to be on strengthening days, it just worked out that way and I didn't really think about risks vs benefits of fasting/restricting and strengthening vs cardio days.
Thanks again everyone for your help and info!0
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