Lifting at a calorie deficit?

farberry · September 2014

I'm getting near my goal weight, and want to end up with a toned/slightly muscular body (at the moment I'm sporting some incredible skinny-fat haha). I am starting to lift using the free weights at my gym, and have been doing a lot of research on routines etc.

However I am still eating at a calorie deficit of 1200 a day - is there any point lifting while I do this? Can I realistically build any muscle at a deficit, even though I am aiming for 100 grams of protein a day (usually hit 70-80)?

Should I stick to cardio until I've lost the last 12ish lbs, then start to lift properly while eating at maintenance? Also is an endless cutting/bulking cycle the only way to get that athletic look? As a busy student in my final year I don't know if I have the time and energy to devote to meticulously controlling my food intake and exercise regime to the degree that bulking/cutting cycles seem to need.

Help please! Getting discouraged and very confused!!

My diary is open - the last two days are anomalous for various reasons so ignore, but if you go back to pre-saturday that's the intake I've been aiming for and would hope to continue if it's on the right lines.

threnjen · September 2014

Lift! Lift heavy, lift now! Lifting is awesome

Stronglifts 5x5
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/forums/show/4618-stronglifts-5x5-for-women

What is your height/weight? You absolutely must be eating back exercise calories if you lift, or eating using the TDEE method to account for your lifting. I don't see you logging exercise or eating back any even though you mention cardio, and you often eat only 1,000ish calories a day. You're not going to be able to sustain lifting with this at all, but lifting is what is going to give you the look you are seeking. (worth noting I don't think you should be eating only 1,000 at all, or doing cardio without eating exercise cals either)

You'll definitely want to hit that protein macro, too. Personally I'm not a huge meat lover but I've figured out how to make it work. My diary is open.

farberry · September 2014

Thanks for replying! I've seen the stronglifts 5x5 program around a lot but I don't have access to the big barbells to do squats/deadlifts etc, only dumbbells and kettlebells

I've been trying to create a routine or two that feels like it uses all my muscles, with kettlebell goblet squats included.

I'm a vegetarian, so the only way I can hit my protein macro without going crazy on carbs is to eat a LOT of dairy

But yes, you're right, 1000 a day isn't enough. I just wasn't hungry at all yesterday!

EDIT: Oh and I'm 5'6 at around 130lbs right now.

KarenJanine · September 2014

Yes, LIFT!

Lifting while at a deficit will help ensure the majority of weight loss comes from fat, not muscle. The result is a decrease BF%, helping you achieve the lean look you desire.

logg1e · September 2014

With a height of 5ft 6, a weight of 118lb is very low. Where did you get your goal from?

KarenJanine · September 2014

I'm a vegetarian, so the only way I can hit my protein macro without going crazy on carbs is to eat a LOT of dairy

There are lots of non-dairy protein sources for vegetarians, e.g.

tofu
edamame
eggs / egg whites
seitan
Quorn
soya 'meat'
nuts / seeds / nut butters
peas
beans / lentils
chick peas

As far as dairy sources are concerned, there are lots of different ones with decent amounts of protein to give you some variety, e.g.

Greek yoghurt
fromage frais
cottage cheese
Babybel / Dutch edam
Milk

And there is always the option of protein powders which are a very cost effective way of boosting protein intake, e.g.

whey
casein
soya
hemp
pea

farberry · September 2014

Thank you for the replies!

@KarenJanine Thank you for that list! I've been eating a lot of eggs, but I need to eat more quorn/tofu products. I find that nuts/beans etc are often too high in carbs/cals for the protein they contain if I want to fit them into my daily intake alongside fruit and veg etc, but I guess I'll just have to be more careful with planning! And yes I am using a soya based protein powder to mix into porridge and smoothies

@logg1e I originally set my goal at 126lbs (9 stone), but I hit that number and was unhappy with how I looked. I want to build some muscle, so if the final number is higher than 118 I obviously don't mind if I look how I want. At the moment though even if I built muscle it would be hidden by a layer of fat, so I need to lose that fat in order for any muscle definition to show. I think maybe I'm quite small framed/ruler shaped - never had much in the way of boobs or butt!

SezxyStef · September 2014

With a height of 5ft 6, a weight of 118lb is very low. Where did you get your goal from?

I agree @ 1 inch taller than you me at 148 I wear a size 4..but I lift...and have for over a year...

As for your original post...if you are going to start lifting start eating more...expect gains but not from muscle but water weight.

You won't be building muscle eating 1200 calories and the issue right now is that you have probably lost some LBM (lean body mass) because of your 1200 a day...

Suggestion start slowly adding in some calories (50 a day for a week, then another 50 a day for a week) until you get to a decent amount of calories (1400 is what I ate but also ate back exercise calories at first...then moved to 1750 while l lifting) and you will find that you change the way you look whiile losing little bits of fat (weight) but it won't be quick.

It almost sounds tho that you don't want to eat above 1200....and if that is the case you won't find lifting that fun as you won't have much energy to do it.

farberry · September 2014

@SezxyStef Thank you for your advice, I am definitely happy to weigh more if I look good - the number is not the important thing, I just need something tangible/measurable to aim for to keep me motivated

You're definitely right that I've lost a lot of LBM (I often joke with friends that I am 1% muscle...). I have a history of slightly disordered eating and eating 500-800 cals a day does make you lose fat but also definitely wastes your muscles and drives you crazy! Would not recommend AT ALL.

And you're right that I'm nervous to go above 1200 - I tried eating 1600-1700 cals a day and it just made me really uncomfortable and tempted to drop down to drastically low numbers - I don't want to be tempted back into unhealthy habits.

I'm in a much more positive mind set now though! I plan to continue lifting AND doing cardio, and eating as much protein as I can, then even if I don't gain muscle I'll preserve what LBM I have left. Then, once I'm down to a lower BF% I can comfortably up my calories (I'll have the 'space' to do so as once I'm at a lower weight I won't be as worried about gaining too much fat) and concentrate on lifting heavy things to build some real muscle!

Thanks for all your responses, feel free anyone reading/posting here to add me for mutual support/motivation/help! x

logg1e · September 2014

I think that there are signs here that your eating may still be "disordered".

I am also 5ft 6 and a bit older than you. At 9st 7lb I hit my goal and have started trying to eat at maintenance / surplus to support my weight-lifting. I'm up to 1900 calories per day and still losing.

If you're like me, you'll have to start taking the focus off the scale and on to the weights you can lift and the protein you can pack away. Gaining strength and muscle is a good feeling though, so I feel it's worth it!

skaboom163 · September 2014

Yes, keep doing weight training. My main exercise is weightlifting and I am trying to get to a lower weight class so I make sure my calorie intake is from good sources with quality protein and complex carbs.

What are your ultimate goals? What is your ideal "look"? I would keep a healthy balance of weight training and cardio for the most part. I think cardio can do more "harm" to your body with a calorie deficit since you usually burn more calories from cardio. When you put more muscle on your body, it will burn more calories at a resting state than when you have no muscle, so you might need to up your calorie intake if you start putting on some muscle. If you aren't worried about the number on the scale, I highly suggest just using your judgement (how pants fit, how you feel, and etc...) and just seeing where it takes you. Alternate days between weight training and cardio and use my fitness pal as a guide to keep track of calories (don't' worry if you go a little over a few days here and there). If you feel hungry/tired then just EAT and listen to your body.

Jreeves9210 · September 2014

I have a related question. I'm mainly losing for fat loss (I don't use the food diary thing on this, but I count macros. 1g protein per lb of lean bodyweight, .4g fat for lb of lean mass, and the balance carbs), and am planning on primarily using bodyweight exercises with some kettlebell for resistance, nothing crazy. Is it still beneficial for me to really push myself for my strength training even though I'm eating at a deficit? I'm not saying phone in the workouts, but is it still beneficial to give all I've got right now when I'm just trying to keep what muscle I do have? or should I wait till I start adding calories to push the envelope? FWIW, I'm 165 ish, about 23-25% bf, and eating about 1600-1800 calories a day

Liftng4Lis · September 2014

Lift, lift, lift! I warn you, its frustrating and a slow process, but I am STRONG now. I don't lose poundage often, because I'm in a deficit (I have a great FL to hear me whine when I melt down), but I am STRONG!

Jreeves9210 · September 2014

I'm not worried about the frustration. I've never been truly fit or strong, and it's killed my self confidence and, in turn, my social life, so this, aside from any academic/professional pursuits, is my only real goal. I've got a couple of peripheral hobbies, but my fitness is my focus. I've fallen off the wagon and gotten back on 5 or 6 times now at least over the past year or so and didn't make or lose any progress, but I've got the mindset right this time around. I've got a plan, tools to execute that plan, and a realistic approach this time.

I_Will_End_You · September 2014

Definitely lift. Eat a little more, try to retain as much LBM as possible.

With a height of 5ft 6, a weight of 118lb is very low. Where did you get your goal from?

I am 5'6, 118. I'm within the healthy weight range for my height, feel great and don't look sickly or unhealthy. Everyone doesn't have to have the same goals.

sijomial · September 2014

However I am still eating at a calorie deficit of 1200 a day - is there any point lifting while I do this?

You should be reducing the size of your deficit as you get closer to goal - i.e. slow down the rate of loss.
Yes there is a point in lifting while losing weight - it's one of the best things to do to retain muscle.

Can I realistically build any muscle at a deficit, even though I am aiming for 100 grams of protein a day (usually hit 70-80)

Chances are much higher if you are new to lifting, (or returning after a break), have an adequate protein intake and a small calorie deficit. Note - small calorie deficit!!

Should I stick to cardio until I've lost the last 12ish lbs, then start to lift properly while eating at maintenance?

No - lift now.

Also is an endless cutting/bulking cycle the only way to get that athletic look?

No, you can make significant progress while maintaining weight.

ana3067 · September 2014

Chances are if you are skinny fat, your goal weight will not give you the results you want. Definition is all about low body fat, and being skinny fat indicates a higher body fat with a lower lean body mass. You may experience some newbie gains but otherwise you'd mostly just be supporting what muscle you do have, and your caloric deficit period is liekly going to go on longer than you had anticipated.

Continue eating your net, log lifting in the cardio section adn eat back cals (I eat back 100% of my cals atm as I've been losing TOO quickly), consider 3x5 or 4x5 instead of 5x5 simply due to the lowered ability to recover (especially for your CNS, which is what strength training can drain really easily when in a deficit), deload/week off every other month or so.

farberry · September 2014

OK I will continue to lift! I really enjoy it and I want to get strong so I can beat my male friends in play fights and so that if I ever feel threatened I have slightly more chance of defending myself/throwing a decent punch... I've found a nice 3-day split workout using only dumbbells on bodybuilding.com, just got back from chest/back and I can barely type I feel all floppy haha. Will alternate this with long runs and HIIT and 1 or 2 rest days per week.

I need a bit of time to get over any old weird attitudes to food - I like the security of a specific plan with the confidence that it will work, even if it takes time. It sounds like, with your guys' help, I should be on the right track. I'm a lot less obsessive now - I can enjoy a cheat/treat with my friends without feeling horribly guilty or being thrown into a binge/purge mindset hooray!

I'm gonna eat when I'm hungry and not stress about going over my 1200 limit, especially on lifting days, with the aim to increase my calories to 1400-1600 over time. Of course protein is my number one macro right now (just bought 3 packets of quorn fillets and a ton of kidney beans

). I'm going to keep my 118lb goal where it is for now, so I have the motivation to keep working, but I am also taking pictures regularly so I can see any changes that might not show on the scale.

Thank you so much to all who have posted - I feel a lot more motivated and a lot less confused! You guys are great!

Again anyone reading this in a similar situation please feel free to add me

EDIT: @ana3067 - didn't know you could log lifting as cardio, thanks for the tip I'll check that out!

logg1e · September 2014

Definitely lift. Eat a little more, try to retain as much LBM as possible.

With a height of 5ft 6, a weight of 118lb is very low. Where did you get your goal from?

I am 5'6, 118. I'm within the healthy weight range for my height, feel great and don't look sickly or unhealthy. Everyone doesn't have to have the same goals.

I asked my question because the OP describes herself as having higher body fat percentage than she'd like. Losing even more weight and becoming even more "skinny-fat" is not going to give her the look she's after in the same way that putting on muscle and weight would.

J72FIT · October 2014

However I am still eating at a calorie deficit of 1200 a day - is there any point lifting while I do this? Can I realistically build any muscle at a deficit, even though I am aiming for 100 grams of protein a day (usually hit 70-80)?

If you are a newbie you may have some increase in muscle mass. Other then that, you will not build muscle in a calorie deficit. Is there a point? Yes. Lifting in a calorie deficit you help you RETAIN your lean muscle while you lose body fat.

Lifting at a calorie deficit?

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