Ketosis and Primal dieting??
bbygrl5
Posts: 964 Member
I really like the science behind the primal diet and in recent weeks have tried to make the switch to lowering my carbs and eating lean proteins and veggies more.
I've been studing ketosis, which is the means by which the primal diet works. The body burns its own fat for fuel instead of burning carbohydrates for fuel. However, I've seen a lot of conflicting information as to whether or not this is okay and healthy to put our bodies in this state.
I pulled this article from WebMD. http://women.webmd.com/guide/high-protein-low-carbohydrate-diets
Here is an excerpt explaining potential health risks:
"High protein, low-carb diets can cause a number of health problems, including:
Kidney failure. Consuming too much protein puts a strain on the kidneys, which can make a person susceptible to kidney disease.
High cholesterol. It is well known that high protein diets (consisting of red meat, whole dairy products, and other high fat foods) are linked to high cholesterol. Studies have linked high cholesterol levels to an increased risk of developing heart disease, stroke, and cancer.
Osteoporosis and kidney stones. High protein diets have also been shown to cause people to excrete more calcium than normal through their urine. Over a prolonged period of time, this can increase a person's risk of osteoporosis and kidney stones.
Cancer. One of the reasons high protein diets increase the risks of certain health problems is because of the avoidance of carbohydrate-containing foods and the vitamins, minerals, fiber, and antioxidants they contain. It is therefore important to obtain your protein from a diet rich in whole grains, fruits, and vegetables. Not only are your needs for protein being met, but you are also helping to reduce your risk of developing cancer.
Unhealthy metabolic state (ketosis). Low-carb diets can cause your body to go into a dangerous metabolic state called ketosis since your body burns fat instead of glucose for energy. During ketosis, the body forms substances known as ketones, which can cause organs to fail and result in gout, kidney stones, or kidney failure. Ketones can also dull a person's appetite, cause nausea and bad breath. Ketosis can be prevented by eating at least 100 grams of carbohydrates a day."
I don't just accept everything I read as truth though, so I'm trying to do more research and collect more thoughts and opinions. I would like to solicit opinions from people that have had experience with low carb dieting, be it positive or not, or anyone who has done research on ketosis and/or low carb dieting.
Thanks for your input!
I've been studing ketosis, which is the means by which the primal diet works. The body burns its own fat for fuel instead of burning carbohydrates for fuel. However, I've seen a lot of conflicting information as to whether or not this is okay and healthy to put our bodies in this state.
I pulled this article from WebMD. http://women.webmd.com/guide/high-protein-low-carbohydrate-diets
Here is an excerpt explaining potential health risks:
"High protein, low-carb diets can cause a number of health problems, including:
Kidney failure. Consuming too much protein puts a strain on the kidneys, which can make a person susceptible to kidney disease.
High cholesterol. It is well known that high protein diets (consisting of red meat, whole dairy products, and other high fat foods) are linked to high cholesterol. Studies have linked high cholesterol levels to an increased risk of developing heart disease, stroke, and cancer.
Osteoporosis and kidney stones. High protein diets have also been shown to cause people to excrete more calcium than normal through their urine. Over a prolonged period of time, this can increase a person's risk of osteoporosis and kidney stones.
Cancer. One of the reasons high protein diets increase the risks of certain health problems is because of the avoidance of carbohydrate-containing foods and the vitamins, minerals, fiber, and antioxidants they contain. It is therefore important to obtain your protein from a diet rich in whole grains, fruits, and vegetables. Not only are your needs for protein being met, but you are also helping to reduce your risk of developing cancer.
Unhealthy metabolic state (ketosis). Low-carb diets can cause your body to go into a dangerous metabolic state called ketosis since your body burns fat instead of glucose for energy. During ketosis, the body forms substances known as ketones, which can cause organs to fail and result in gout, kidney stones, or kidney failure. Ketones can also dull a person's appetite, cause nausea and bad breath. Ketosis can be prevented by eating at least 100 grams of carbohydrates a day."
I don't just accept everything I read as truth though, so I'm trying to do more research and collect more thoughts and opinions. I would like to solicit opinions from people that have had experience with low carb dieting, be it positive or not, or anyone who has done research on ketosis and/or low carb dieting.
Thanks for your input!
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I have done low carb diets and ALWAYS felt awful. While I never made it more than a couple weeks, I had quick results but didnt do anything except lay around, was really moody, and thanks to the lack of fiber and fruits had some digestion problems.0
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That sounds like plenty of reasons NOT to do it. Believing only HALF of that list keeps me from trying it. I burn fat the old-fashioned way.... fasted cardio. Running every AM for at least 40 minutes yields me a 2 pound/week drop like clockwork.
"Diets" are unsuccessful at KEEPING off the weight b/c it is meant to be temporary. Dropping weight and keeping it off requires a change in eating HABITS, not necessarily changing all of the food you are eating.0 -
Years ago I did the Adkins diet and went into ketosis. My breath smelled awful, I had a dry mouth constantly, and I had NO energy. It was all I could do to go to work and just get through the day. I'm pretty sure I wasn't in my most menatally aware state either. In my experience it is not a healthy thing to do.0
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I eat a high-protein low-fat diet. Did you know that unless you are eating over 1.5g-per-pound-of-bodyweight in protein (for a 130 pound me, that would be 195g of protein a day which is almost unattainable unless you REALLY REALLY work at it), then your kidneys are not much at risk. There have been multiple new studies that show this is a myth that has been passed around for ages.
If someone is consuming grilled skinless chicken breasts, salmon and ground turkey most of the time it is much safer than those who consume fatty meats like dark meat chicken, fried meats, red meat etc. Obviously you want to eat the right types of protein too
Read more: http://www.menshealth.com/mhlists/food_myths/High_Protein_is_Harmful.php#ixzz1CYaTHgjh0 -
Quite a few of the bariatric doctors up here promote ketosis in controlled, monitored diets. Going on a low-carb diet takes as much consideration for variety, in my opinion as switching to a vegetarian diet. You will still be consuming carbohydrates if you are maintaining a vegetable rich diet - they are more absorbed differently than those in breads, pastas, rice and baked goods. You will definitely lose on a low carb diet, but if you stop doing it at any point, you will see immediate results of the weight gain back on (at least for several of my friends that lost weight doing them). You would have to feel comfortable committing to it long term, even with the bariatric doctors, you never get off their diet......you just slowly increase your carbohydrate intake.
High protein diets can be detrimental typically if you have some kidney damage already (remember that prolonged obesity CAN cause kidney damage). Also the brain requires a certain amount of carbohydrates a day to keep it functioning properly so you might not be as sharp as you would otherwise.
Best advice is to ask your physician about their advice based on your own situation. Appreciate that you are doing the research before jumping on the bandwagon.0 -
As you know I've been primal for a while now. Ketosis is what I strive for! Ketoacidosis (sp?) is what harms your kidneys. Isn't it all of our goals to burn fat we have stored?? I have been under a dr's supervision the whole time and my cholesterol is perfect, good cholesterol is on the high side of normal. I only eat around 60 g of carbs on any given day and they are almost always from fruits, nuts and vegetables. Eating a primal diet is super healthy b/c you cut out all things processed, not because you cut out things like fruit, which your body needs. I can see where low-carb can be harmful, like in adkins, but I think primal is just about as healthy as it gets. It's not specifically low-carb, it's low carb by default. I like to think of it more in Biblical terms. If God made it, I eat it. If man made it, I don't. God made us to survive on plants and animals, not loaves of white bread and boxes of whatever is fast. Think about what grain has to go through to be "food"... cheerios do not grow on a vine, LOL. I know it's a topic that everyone has an opinion about, and this is just mine... I love being primal! I feel incredible and have lost a ton of weight and gained a ton of muscle definition. You have to decide what's right for you though, no one can do it for you. Good luck with whatever you choose 0
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I did this diet whn I was 16,now 41 and had never felt better! I lost much weight and felt full of energy. When I attempted to do the diet again in the future, I didn't have as much success! I don't think eating low carb is as dangerous as what you wrote on it but I do think that sticking with a very low carb diet is not realistic as one continues to want their carbs eventually. Doing a low carb diet can get real old real fast! I have been stuck in a plateau for ablut 2 1/2 weeks and I have heard and read from a few people that doing a 3 day low carb, high protein diet might knock me out of the plateau. I am willing to give it a shot yet once again, it's only for 3 days so I think I can manage to get through it. Dr. Atkins claims that the health benefits from doing low carb are some of the best. There is much controversy with low carb eating and like any other fad diet out there, it's probally not the best way to go on a permanent basis. Eating healthy and portion control is something that we will benefit from on a permanent basis.0
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There's a lot of hard scientific research stating that low carb, high protein lifestyles work. I've been on it for quite some time. I feel fine. If I start to feel lethargic, it's because I am not getting enough fat in my diet. I just up the fat intake and I'm good to go. I know several people who have lost significant amount of weight changing their diet to the low carb, high protein lifestyle. My cholesterol, along with those other people who went to the doctor to get cholesterol levels before and after, have declined. My cholesterol did not go up. Another important thing to know is that you MUST drink lots of water. This is to empty the ketones in your body and all the other benefits water has. If you have a lot of fiber in your diet, you should be drinking tons of water anyway in order to not be constipated. I attempt to drink 14 8oz glasses of water. Caffeine does not count. As far as the poster who had digestive problems, you get fiber from eating vegetables.
I could go on, but if you have questions, let me know.0 -
I eat a high-protein low-fat diet. Did you know that unless you are eating over 1.5g-per-pound-of-bodyweight in protein (for a 130 pound me, that would be 195g of protein a day which is almost unattainable unless you REALLY REALLY work at it), then your kidneys are not much at risk. There have been multiple new studies that show this is a myth that has been passed around for ages.
If someone is consuming grilled skinless chicken breasts, salmon and ground turkey most of the time it is much safer than those who consume fatty meats like dark meat chicken, fried meats, red meat etc. Obviously you want to eat the right types of protein too
Read more: http://www.menshealth.com/mhlists/food_myths/High_Protein_is_Harmful.php#ixzz1CYaTHgjh
This is one of the comments that followed the above cited article:
"Funny, I am a Security Consultant in Latin American, and one of my men just got out of surgery due to a kidney stone. It was a large PROTEIN deposit, not calcium. Two doctors stated the main factor was a high protein diet off red meats over the years. In Northern Mexico they eat pestiside-free red meat at every sitting and yet they have the highest kidney stones problem in that country. Hmmmm
This article is a myth! "
Cerainly can't believe everything you read but it pays to read the "fine print" as well.0 -
I lost 125 pounds in a year and a half on a low carb, high protein diet, I would (and still do) take in whole wheat products once a day.
I can say that other than perhaps a change in my breath (for the worse-hello gum!) I haven't noticed any of those side effects, and I would take that 125 pounds lost over my good breath any day!
Well worth it in my opinion, and a lot of those are somewhat exaggerated claims, I would suggest some further research on your part.
Also my diet was recommend to me by a doctor, not a magazine editor
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I personally wouldn't do it....but that's me. I love food, I love variety, and I can't imagine limiting my diet to that extent. That is not said to discourage you from doing this!
On a forum like this, you are going to get plenty of opinons from either side. None of which are going to help you, because in the end it is your body and your choice. You have obviously done your research, and from there it boils down to whether you are willing to take the risks in order to reap the perceived benefits. Good for you for digging deeper and researching before you make a lifechanging choice like this. And good luck in whatever you decide! 0 -
Ketosis can be prevented by eating at least 100 grams of carbohydrates a day."
I keep my carbs at no higher than 100-120 a day. Excess carbs make me bloat and gain weight... like most people, hence the popularity and proven success of low-carb lifestyles.
I love the primal concept too, and find a more relaxed version of it is easier to live by. So I consume lots of lean protein, vegetables, only small portions of whole grains, and still have fat free/low-fat dairy products.0 -
Am taking a nutrition class this term in preparation for starting nursing school soon--the body does NOT perceive ketosis as a good thing. It exists basically as an emergency mechanism so you don't die. Further, your body/muscles can use other types of fuel (fat/protein) but the brain cannot. It needs carbohydrates as fuel. That's why people are cranky/spacy/fuzzy-headed on low-carb diets. I tried it for a week once (about 7 years ago) and felt awful. I did lose weight rapidly, but put it back on as soon as I ate a fruit--what the heck kind of life is that? There aren't any shortcuts. We got here by eating more than our bodies needed and we need to get back by eating less. Bariatric doctors might recommend ketosis-inducing diets because they are in the business of the quick fix. They want you to get to an acceptable weight ASAP so you can write them the check for still another quick fix.0
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Wow, these are some awesome responses!! Thanks a lot everyone!! I appreciate anything else anyone has to add! 0
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Am taking a nutrition class this term in preparation for starting nursing school soon--the body does NOT perceive ketosis as a good thing. It exists basically as an emergency mechanism so you don't die. Further, your body/muscles can use other types of fuel (fat/protein) but the brain cannot. It needs carbohydrates as fuel. That's why people are cranky/spacy/fuzzy-headed on low-carb diets. I tried it for a week once (about 7 years ago) and felt awful. I did lose weight rapidly, but put it back on as soon as I ate a fruit--what the heck kind of life is that? There aren't any shortcuts. We got here by eating more than our bodies needed and we need to get back by eating less. Bariatric doctors might recommend ketosis-inducing diets because they are in the business of the quick fix. They want you to get to an acceptable weight ASAP so you can write them the check for still another quick fix.
I love this post. Well said!0 -
I prefer a well balanced plan. I will not stick to anything that restrictive for the rest of my life, so why should I be a cranky, spacy stinky person for a short while only to re-gain the weight? Not for me.
My dad is doing this, he is restricting himself to 60 carbs perday, period. He makes no adjustments for fiber. He drinks 3-4 glasses of vodka nightly (no carbs!). He has lost 40 lbs, but he is a cranky, stinky unhealthy unbalanced mess. IMHO. He may be shrinking but he is ruining his health in the process.0 -
It comes down to this: Do you need to loose the weight so fast your health is secondary to the weight loss? Or is your main goal to be healthy and keep that way? If you are in the first category, say you need to loose weight fast or you can't have life saving surgery or something, I can understand that. But why compromise your health for a quick fix, when you can have the loss and the health. Most of us need to learn how to get and stay healthy and that is not the quickie route. So I don't like all the fad diets and cleansing enemas ideas for a "diet". Starvation is also a great way to drop weight. Why not just go straight to that. It's proven, it works, it's fast. I'm making a point with that statement. I don't believe extremes is a healthy way to go.0
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It's not just about carbs but WHAT carbs. Our bodies LOVE fruit and veggie carbs - it's the grain carbs that screw us up. I shoot for right around 100 g of carbs and steer away from grains, that's when I feel my best 0
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Ummm, sorry to say this but I have been in a mild state of ketosis for almost 5 months now----obviously its working for me! I don't eat high fat protein. I only get 20-25 grams of fat a day. no more than 120 grams of protein and I stay 80-100 grams of carbs a day. Keeps my blood sugar even all day long! It works. I am not tired at all. I have a ton of energy.
I did Atkins, had to quit cuz I had no energy--well yea, who woulnd't after eating all that high fat food.
Did WW---had to quit cuz I could eat my points worth in carbs every day---not a good thing for me.
Now I have balance!0 -
i did the low-carb, high protein/fat diet for a summer. i was totally miserable. i ate something like 20 g of net carbs per day. i had no energy, i was cranky, and shaky quite often. i could go a week without pooping (TMI, sorry) and i also got insanely sick whenever i had anything with more than like, 15 carbs in it. i lost weight, but i was miserable!0
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I eat a high-protein low-fat diet. Did you know that unless you are eating over 1.5g-per-pound-of-bodyweight in protein (for a 130 pound me, that would be 195g of protein a day which is almost unattainable unless you REALLY REALLY work at it), then your kidneys are not much at risk. There have been multiple new studies that show this is a myth that has been passed around for ages.
If someone is consuming grilled skinless chicken breasts, salmon and ground turkey most of the time it is much safer than those who consume fatty meats like dark meat chicken, fried meats, red meat etc. Obviously you want to eat the right types of protein too
Read more: http://www.menshealth.com/mhlists/food_myths/High_Protein_is_Harmful.php#ixzz1CYaTHgjh
This is one of the comments that followed the above cited article:
"Funny, I am a Security Consultant in Latin American, and one of my men just got out of surgery due to a kidney stone. It was a large PROTEIN deposit, not calcium. Two doctors stated the main factor was a high protein diet off red meats over the years. In Northern Mexico they eat pestiside-free red meat at every sitting and yet they have the highest kidney stones problem in that country. Hmmmm
This article is a myth! "
Cerainly can't believe everything you read but it pays to read the "fine print" as well.
That's exactly why I said you have to eat the RIGHT types of protein. This person had eaten years of fatty red meats...0 -
When I lose weight it's been on a lower carb diet. Not no carb - just really really careful with what carbs I eat. Fruit - if it's whole and has some nutrients - like apples and strawberries - not grapes and watermelon. I eat veggies! I eat lean meats.
For carbs I love a little brown rice, and some of the newer grains we're seeing in our grocery store! High fiber whole grain bread in moderation (a couple times a week).
But every night I have a glass or two of carbs in the form of red wine.
Not so much a low carb diet as it is a LIQUID carb diet :laugh:0 -
I suggest watching fathead (do a search for it on youtube) it's funny and VERY informative and has a real live study done for 30 days eating low carb. If you can't find the movie, message me I will help you locate it. Read Good Calories Bad Calories by Gary Taubes, and Protein Power by Dr. Eades (they have a clinic based on low carb they have cited several studies also on the health benifits of low carb. Gary Taubes (he is a scientific writer and has put several studies in his books on the safety and healthy benefits of a low carb diet) latest book Why we get fat and what to do with it. these will solidify your confidence in primal and debunk the dietary myths out there on low carbing.
I'm an advocate of low carb, I feel best and more energetic. I have been doing it now for over 8 years, excellent health, in fact when I up my carbs and delve into more carbs I get ill and suffer from large ovarian cysts. The minute I get back on track the cyst go away (after about a month low carbing) this has been proven by ultra sound too. My sister has been on a low carb diet for 15 years and is excellent health, blood lipids and all blood levels come out perfect and she is lean and very toned and energetic.
Believe it or not in the beginning of a low carb diet, many people feel lethargic because they are not getting enough sodium, as the body transitions to burning fat the kidneys release alot of excess water (urine) causing some of the side effects mentioned by other posters who have tried, these symptoms go away as the body gets adjusted and transitions into burning fat more efficiently.0 -
After years of yo-yo dieting, I have come to believe that calories are the one and only factor that one needs to measure to stay at a comfortable weight. In my opinion, the only way to keep calories low is by eating foods that fill you up. If you go through the day under your calorie goal, while eating frequently and not allowing yourself to get too hungry, you will likely look back at the end of the day and see that you are over your protein goal and under your carb goal. Trying to get over your fiber goal is also helpful toward staying sated.
My motto: "stay under your calorie goal, eat frequently, never let yourself get too hungry"0 -
It comes down to this: Do you need to loose the weight so fast your health is secondary to the weight loss? Or is your main goal to be healthy and keep that way? If you are in the first category, say you need to loose weight fast or you can't have life saving surgery or something, I can understand that. But why compromise your health for a quick fix, when you can have the loss and the health. Most of us need to learn how to get and stay healthy and that is not the quickie route. So I don't like all the fad diets and cleansing enemas ideas for a "diet". Starvation is also a great way to drop weight. Why not just go straight to that. It's proven, it works, it's fast. I'm making a point with that statement. I don't believe extremes is a healthy way to go.
Ummm....I dunno, I lost my weight fast and got off my blood pressure meds and my cholesterol is now normal. I do not abuse protein. I do not eat red meat, I eat lean protein, chicken, fish, ground turkey. I eat 80-100 grams of carbs a day. Not sure what health risk you are referring to.0 -
The brain does use ketones:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketone_bodies0 -
Am taking a nutrition class this term in preparation for starting nursing school soon--the body does NOT perceive ketosis as a good thing. It exists basically as an emergency mechanism so you don't die. Further, your body/muscles can use other types of fuel (fat/protein) but the brain cannot. It needs carbohydrates as fuel. That's why people are cranky/spacy/fuzzy-headed on low-carb diets. I tried it for a week once (about 7 years ago) and felt awful. I did lose weight rapidly, but put it back on as soon as I ate a fruit--what the heck kind of life is that? There aren't any shortcuts. We got here by eating more than our bodies needed and we need to get back by eating less. Bariatric doctors might recommend ketosis-inducing diets because they are in the business of the quick fix. They want you to get to an acceptable weight ASAP so you can write them the check for still another quick fix.
Actually we don't need carbs for brain function. We do not need Glucose for brain function. Through Gluconeogenesis, the brain gets everything it needs and is actually better off. Long chain fatty acids (aka saturated fats) are actually more important for proper brain function than glucose (aka carbs).
And most people on low carb plans have MORE mental clarity than any fogginess.
Personally I find that I am much better with protein and vegetables. Vegetables are carbs and that is plenty.
I eat at least 60% fat, 30% protein and 10% carbs - protein, fats and vegetables. My cholesterol is actually too low now and my doctor is asking me to raise it.
I use fruit as desserts. I eat very little dairy, no grains, beans or legumes and I feel better than I have felt in a long time.
I am primal and getting more primal every day, even going raw in some areas. Hence my screen name.0 -
It comes down to this: Do you need to loose the weight so fast your health is secondary to the weight loss? Or is your main goal to be healthy and keep that way? If you are in the first category, say you need to loose weight fast or you can't have life saving surgery or something, I can understand that. But why compromise your health for a quick fix, when you can have the loss and the health. Most of us need to learn how to get and stay healthy and that is not the quickie route. So I don't like all the fad diets and cleansing enemas ideas for a "diet". Starvation is also a great way to drop weight. Why not just go straight to that. It's proven, it works, it's fast. I'm making a point with that statement. I don't believe extremes is a healthy way to go.
Ummm....I dunno, I lost my weight fast and got off my blood pressure meds and my cholesterol is now normal. I do not abuse protein. I do not eat red meat, I eat lean protein, chicken, fish, ground turkey. I eat 80-100 grams of carbs a day. Not sure what health risk you are referring to.
There aren't any health risks with what your doing or have done. Your body is thanking you and that is all that matters.0 -
I just finished rereading "The South Beach Diet" and I have to say, Phases II and III sound the most balanced. Lean protein, good fats, carbs with fiber in them. A bit different than what you asked about, but there are similarities, too.
Still toying with starting South Beach again - your thread is helping me weigh my options. Thanks!0
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