Starvation Mode MYTH and DANGERS!
McKayMachina
Posts: 2,670 Member
I've only read one synopsis of one starvation study, so I feel that further investigation is likely necessary. However, based on the limited information I've got, the following appears to be true:
1. Severely limiting your caloric intake is DANGEROUS and may result in irreparable physical and psychological damage.
2. Starvation mode does not appear to be real. At least not in the sense that if you net 1600 calories/day, everyday for the rest of your life, you will get or stay fat. Doesn't work like that.
MFP does the math FOR YOU. It factors in weight loss goals. I suggest setting your desired weight loss in MFP (#s/week)and following the calorie guidelines set for you. If MFP tells you to net 1600 calories per day, do so. Account for calories IN (via foods) and calories OUT (via exercise).
What your ideal result should look like:
Obviously, your numbers will be different. But GOAL and NET calories should be equal at the end of the day (or very close to it)
***You are not doing yourself any favors by starving yourself!***
---
Below is my synopsis of the Wiki entry. Below that is a link to the page. Check it out for yourself.
---
The Minnesota Starvation Experiment
400 men volunteered for the 1944 study. 36 healthy men were ultimately selected to participate. They were all white males aged 22-33.
"The primary objective of the Minnesota Starvation Experiment was to study in detail the physical and psychological effects of prolonged, famine-like semi-starvation on healthy men, and their subsequent rehabilitation from this condition."
There were four phases of the study:
- Control Period: 12 weeks. 3,200 calories.
- Semi-Starvation Period: 24 weeks. 1,560 calories.
- Restricted Rehabilitation Period: 12 weeks. Men split into four groups. Various caloric restrictions per group.
- Unrestricted Rehabilitation Period: 8 weeks. No calorie restriction. Food intake still monitored and recorded.
"Throughout the duration of the study each man was assigned specific work tasks, was expected to walk 22 miles each week and required to keep a personal diary."
RESULTS
"The full report of results from the Minnesota Starvation Experiment was published in 1950 in a two-volume, 1,385 page text entitled The Biology of Human Starvation (University of Minnesota Press). The 50-chapter work contains an extensive analysis of the physiological and psychological data collected during the study, and a comprehensive literature review.
Among the conclusions from the study was the confirmation that prolonged semi-starvation produces significant increases in depression, hysteria and hypochondriasis* as measured using the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI) (a standardized test administered during the experimental period). Indeed, most of the subjects experienced periods of severe emotional distress and depression.[6] There were extreme reactions to the psychological effects during the experiment including self-mutilation (one subject amputated three fingers of his hand with an axe, though the subject was unsure if he had done so intentionally or accidentally).[7] Participants exhibited a preoccupation with food, both during the starvation period and the rehabilitation phase. Sexual interest was drastically reduced, and the volunteers showed signs of social withdrawal and isolation.[8] The participants reported a decline in concentration, comprehension and judgment capabilities, although the standardized tests administered showed no actual signs of diminished capacity. There were marked declines in physiological processes indicative of decreases in each subject’s basal metabolic rate (the energy required by the body in a state of rest), reflected in reduced body temperature, respiration and heart rate. Some of the subjects exhibited edema (swelling) in their extremities, presumably due to the massive quantities of water the participants consumed attempting to fill their stomachs during the starvation period."
*Hypochondriasis (aka: Hypochondria) is a belief that physical symptoms are signs of a serious illness, even when there is no medical evidence to support the presence of an illness.
NOTES
"the physical effects of the induced semi-starvation during the study well approximates the conditions experienced by patients afflicted with a range of eating disorders, such as anorexia nervosa and bulimia nervosa. As a result of the study it has been postulated that many of the profound social and psychological effects of these disorders may result from undernutrition, and recovery depends on physical re-nourishment as well as psychological treatment."
---
Source: Minnesota Starvation Experiment Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment
I apologize if this has already been covered. It seems to come up a lot!
---
Hope this helps! Please feel free to weigh in with any and all supporting AND alternative thoughts!
1. Severely limiting your caloric intake is DANGEROUS and may result in irreparable physical and psychological damage.
2. Starvation mode does not appear to be real. At least not in the sense that if you net 1600 calories/day, everyday for the rest of your life, you will get or stay fat. Doesn't work like that.
MFP does the math FOR YOU. It factors in weight loss goals. I suggest setting your desired weight loss in MFP (#s/week)and following the calorie guidelines set for you. If MFP tells you to net 1600 calories per day, do so. Account for calories IN (via foods) and calories OUT (via exercise).
What your ideal result should look like:
Obviously, your numbers will be different. But GOAL and NET calories should be equal at the end of the day (or very close to it)
***You are not doing yourself any favors by starving yourself!***
---
Below is my synopsis of the Wiki entry. Below that is a link to the page. Check it out for yourself.
---
The Minnesota Starvation Experiment
400 men volunteered for the 1944 study. 36 healthy men were ultimately selected to participate. They were all white males aged 22-33.
"The primary objective of the Minnesota Starvation Experiment was to study in detail the physical and psychological effects of prolonged, famine-like semi-starvation on healthy men, and their subsequent rehabilitation from this condition."
There were four phases of the study:
- Control Period: 12 weeks. 3,200 calories.
- Semi-Starvation Period: 24 weeks. 1,560 calories.
- Restricted Rehabilitation Period: 12 weeks. Men split into four groups. Various caloric restrictions per group.
- Unrestricted Rehabilitation Period: 8 weeks. No calorie restriction. Food intake still monitored and recorded.
"Throughout the duration of the study each man was assigned specific work tasks, was expected to walk 22 miles each week and required to keep a personal diary."
RESULTS
"The full report of results from the Minnesota Starvation Experiment was published in 1950 in a two-volume, 1,385 page text entitled The Biology of Human Starvation (University of Minnesota Press). The 50-chapter work contains an extensive analysis of the physiological and psychological data collected during the study, and a comprehensive literature review.
Among the conclusions from the study was the confirmation that prolonged semi-starvation produces significant increases in depression, hysteria and hypochondriasis* as measured using the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory (MMPI) (a standardized test administered during the experimental period). Indeed, most of the subjects experienced periods of severe emotional distress and depression.[6] There were extreme reactions to the psychological effects during the experiment including self-mutilation (one subject amputated three fingers of his hand with an axe, though the subject was unsure if he had done so intentionally or accidentally).[7] Participants exhibited a preoccupation with food, both during the starvation period and the rehabilitation phase. Sexual interest was drastically reduced, and the volunteers showed signs of social withdrawal and isolation.[8] The participants reported a decline in concentration, comprehension and judgment capabilities, although the standardized tests administered showed no actual signs of diminished capacity. There were marked declines in physiological processes indicative of decreases in each subject’s basal metabolic rate (the energy required by the body in a state of rest), reflected in reduced body temperature, respiration and heart rate. Some of the subjects exhibited edema (swelling) in their extremities, presumably due to the massive quantities of water the participants consumed attempting to fill their stomachs during the starvation period."
*Hypochondriasis (aka: Hypochondria) is a belief that physical symptoms are signs of a serious illness, even when there is no medical evidence to support the presence of an illness.
NOTES
"the physical effects of the induced semi-starvation during the study well approximates the conditions experienced by patients afflicted with a range of eating disorders, such as anorexia nervosa and bulimia nervosa. As a result of the study it has been postulated that many of the profound social and psychological effects of these disorders may result from undernutrition, and recovery depends on physical re-nourishment as well as psychological treatment."
---
Source: Minnesota Starvation Experiment Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment
I apologize if this has already been covered. It seems to come up a lot!
---
Hope this helps! Please feel free to weigh in with any and all supporting AND alternative thoughts!
0
Replies
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Nice post. Bump.0
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I actually hadnt seen this specific article before, i heard something about it but never read it.
Very interesting! Explains why I seem to be a little on edge since starting my journey!0 -
I have read a few studies about it and I think it goes both ways. I am more of a person who thinks starvation mode exists, but it doesnt happen over night a some people may think.
Rarely eat all of my exercise calories, And perform very well as a starter flank on my university's rugby team. And am the same happy bubbly girl i have been all along :]0 -
Thank you for posting this. My hope is that everyone who uses MFP will read this and actually do their own starvation mode research. Hopefully this will cut down on the number of people here who think that the medical community is full of **** regarding starvation mode. It's very real, and can be very dangerous and even lethal.0
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that article is about a starvation diet not starvation mode. They are not the same thing. When you stay severely low calorie for too long your body eats itself. It eats up muscle mass (not fat) while it shuts down systems and organs too. The scientific term for starvation mode is 'adaptive thermalgenesis'. It is real.0
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I just don't believe in eating if I'm not hungry. I'm not going to eat calories just for calories sake. I think you also have to feel what your body is telling you. I ate some very filling food today, and am under my calorie goal. I still have some stationary bike riding to do, also. I know I won't hit my calorie goal today, and that's O.K. with me 'cause if I ate anymore I think I'd explode!
On days that I feel hungry, I'll eat.0 -
I just watched the movie "Hunger" about the 1981 Irish republican hunger strike.
The main character was based off of the real life Bobby Sands. He was already thin to begin with and he died within 66 days of beginning the strike.
Starvation is scary stuff. I won't mess with it.
Aren't we all here to get healthy, anyway? 0 -
that article is about a starvation diet not starvation mode. They are not the same thing. If you eat less thsn 500 calorie a day or less than of course you will lose weight. You body eats itself. It eats up muscle mass while it shuts down systems and organs too. The scientific term for starvation mode is 'adaptive thermalgenesis'. It is real.
You're absolutely right. This is more to address people who seem to think they will get/stay fat if they eat only 1200 calories/day for the rest of their lives.0 -
I just don't believe in eating if I'm not hungry. I'm not going to eat calories just for calories sake. I think you also have to feel what your body is telling you. I ate some very filling food today, and am under my calorie goal. I still have some stationary bike riding to do, also. I know I won't hit my calorie goal today, and that's O.K. with me 'cause if I ate anymore I think I'd explode!
On days that I feel hungry, I'll eat.
It sounds like you're definitely on the right track! Bodies are all different and don't function within mathematical ideals. It's very important to listen to your body. The numbers are just guidelines.0 -
Yes "starving" yourself into weight loss can cause issues with your body including gallstones and needing your gallbladder removed. I had that when I was going through a rough time in 2009(financially and emotionally so I didn't have enough to eat like I would normal nor the appetite for it) and didn't eat much at all.
I had my gallbladder removed almost a year ago. I've had no issues really since.
I've been finding I do best with a day where I go over a tad and eating most of my exercise calories has produced the highest week of loss. Very strange. Sometimes eating all of my calories when the calories out raises it leaves me with 2200-2500 calories to eat. Sometimes that is hard to do.
I vary it because I'm not completely sure how accurate using circuit training and calisthenics is to record my calories burned on dvds like 30 Day Shred and Banish Fat Boost Metabolism that aren't exactly aerobics. I like to leave little room for error on those estimations.0 -
I just watched the movie "Hunger" about the 1981 Irish republican hunger strike.
The main character was based off of the real life Bobby Sands. He was already thin to begin with and he died within 66 days of beginning the strike.
Starvation is scary stuff. I won't mess with it.
Aren't we all here to get healthy, anyway?
Unfortunately, we're not all here to get healthy. There are a lot of people here who will fail because they refuse to take the proper steps to become healthy by adopting an actual healthy lifestyle. There are people here who think that it is just fine to eat 500 calories one day and 2,000 the next, and will continue doing so even after attempts to educate them about the metabolic system are made.
I've had several "friends" fail here already just since mid-January. It's pretty depressing, but it's just how this journey works sometimes. There are very few people here who are truly ready to adopt a healthy and sustainable lifestyle. The rest will fail. I estimate the success:failure ratio of MFP users to be about 1:2,500. I have made this estimate only through observation, and I've not conducted a scientific study of the matter.
You should note, however, that you are referring mostly to a consistent starvation diet. A starvation diet will ALWAYS result in hospitalisation and/or death. The definition of "starvation diet" is consuming less than 40% of your caloric needs for a prolonged period of time (usually months). Example: Your caloric need is 2,000 net and you consume 800 net per day for an extended period of time. You are starving yourself.
Starvation "mode" is a bit different. Given that the metabolic system is sensitive to everything we do and everything we eat (adaptive thermogenesis is a key card here) the starvation "mode" can be triggered in a very short period of time (less than 24 hours) if we consume less than 40% of our calorie needs for a specific day. However, recovery from an entrance into starvation mode is easy and takes about as much time as it took to trigger it. Stay in starvation mode for more than 2 weeks and you are causing serious damage to your body, and it will become harder to recover. You will also then be starvation dieting.0 -
You're absolutely right. This is more to address people who seem to think they will get/stay fat if they eat only 1200 calories/day for the rest of their lives.
Yep! Take a look at starving 3rd world countries and we can see that isn't so.0 -
that article is about a starvation diet not starvation mode. They are not the same thing. If you eat less thsn 500 calorie a day or less than of course you will lose weight. You body eats itself. It eats up muscle mass while it shuts down systems and organs too. The scientific term for starvation mode is 'adaptive thermalgenesis'. It is real.
You're absolutely right. This is more to address people who seem to think they will get/stay fat if they eat only 1200 calories/day for the rest of their lives.
1200 is a baseline number. If you stay under this for more than a few days your body will adapt by hanging onto fat and storing what you take in. And it will start pulling fuel from your muscles so you lose muscle mass, not fat. Yes you will lose weight, it will slow down, then stop and you will start to gain. It has happened to me. I gained 20 lbs by not eating. That number could be higher or lower for some people. I don't wait for my stomach to rumble to eat. I make sure to eat the calories my body requires.0 -
I just don't believe in eating if I'm not hungry. I'm not going to eat calories just for calories sake. I think you also have to feel what your body is telling you. I ate some very filling food today, and am under my calorie goal. I still have some stationary bike riding to do, also. I know I won't hit my calorie goal today, and that's O.K. with me 'cause if I ate anymore I think I'd explode!
On days that I feel hungry, I'll eat.
It sounds like you're definitely on the right track! Bodies are all different and don't function within mathematical ideals. It's very important to listen to your body. The numbers are just guidelines.
It doesn't sound like this person is on the right track at all. Our bodies can and do get used to what we do to them. So, while it is important to listen to our bodies it's more important to realise that our bodies listen to us constantly. This person who thinks they will explode if they eat anymore are adhering to a false idea propagated by their own mind that is based on their own false ideas about nutrition. The numbers are there for a reason. Yes, there is some variance, but the majority of people exist inside those numbers.
Hunger works a lot like addiction. When we eat a lot (addicted to food) we are hungry a lot. If we eat just enough for what our bodies need then we will only be hungry when food is required. However, if we eat less than needed we will be very hungry for awhile, but then as time goes on that hungry feeling will become less frequent and we will begin to think we are eating just enough despite being in starvation.0 -
that article is about a starvation diet not starvation mode. They are not the same thing. If you eat less thsn 500 calorie a day or less than of course you will lose weight. You body eats itself. It eats up muscle mass while it shuts down systems and organs too. The scientific term for starvation mode is 'adaptive thermalgenesis'. It is real.
You're absolutely right. This is more to address people who seem to think they will get/stay fat if they eat only 1200 calories/day for the rest of their lives.
1200 is a baseline number. If you stay under this for more than a few days your body will adapt by hanging onto fat and storing what you take in. And it will start pulling fuel from your muscles so you lose muscle mass, not fat. Yes you will lose weight, it will slow down, then stop and you will start to gain. It has happened to me. I gained 20 lbs by not eating. That number could be higher or lower for some people. I don't wait for my stomach to rumble to eat. I make sure to eat the calories my body requires.0 -
It doesn't sound like this person is on the right track at all.
All I have is theory and information in front of me. I can't come to this discussion with any personal experience as I'm new to weight loss. All I can do is examine the info before me. This is why this discussion is important! Thank you for bringing your opinions, interpretations and experience to the table.
I'm still inclined to believe that every body is different and you have to find what works for you. Some people will even be ultra-outliers and not follow the patterns at all. One of my MFP friends gained 60 lbs. in 6 weeks due to a totally stalled metabolism. That is NOT normal and goes to show the uniqueness of each person.0 -
Completely Agree. I would say every body is different. I eat six evenly spaced meals through out the day. And if at 8 my firends want to go play some raquetball? Im not going to eat 700 calories right before bed to make sure my net is at 1200. Every body is different and requires different amounts of calories. I tend to only eat 1500 calories on days I do not have a game so my net is usually at 900-1000. but guess what? still have will power, stilll am happy, and still healthy.
do what you can :] as time goes by most people I have noticed start to eat more of their exercise calories to adapt0 -
I've noticed that a lot of people have come to this site to start losing weight, mostly because they couldn't do it on their own. They create posts telling others how MFP's program is wrong, how their personal method is right, and how others should adapt it as well.
--If it is so great, why are these people coming to this site to begin with? Their methods are not working, because they're faulty.
Too many are uneducated about proper nutrition, body mechanics, and healthy weight loss. This is fine, but these people should not be spouting advice and suggestions to the rest of the community. MFP's system DOES work, and most people came here to see results. Follow the program, don't argue the methods, and enjoy a lighter/healthier body when you're done playing by the rules.
Why is this so hard?0 -
I TOTALLY agree.
My cursory "research" supports MFP's standards. MFP tells me to net 1200 cals so I do. Plain and simple. So far, it's working BRILLIANTLY.
17 lbs. lost in 2 months says so! 0 -
I just don't believe in eating if I'm not hungry. I'm not going to eat calories just for calories sake. I think you also have to feel what your body is telling you. I ate some very filling food today, and am under my calorie goal. I still have some stationary bike riding to do, also. I know I won't hit my calorie goal today, and that's O.K. with me 'cause if I ate anymore I think I'd explode!
On days that I feel hungry, I'll eat.
It sounds like you're definitely on the right track! Bodies are all different and don't function within mathematical ideals. It's very important to listen to your body. The numbers are just guidelines.
It doesn't sound like this person is on the right track at all. Our bodies can and do get used to what we do to them. So, while it is important to listen to our bodies it's more important to realise that our bodies listen to us constantly. This person who thinks they will explode if they eat anymore are adhering to a false idea propagated by their own mind that is based on their own false ideas about nutrition. The numbers are there for a reason. Yes, there is some variance, but the majority of people exist inside those numbers.
Hunger works a lot like addiction. When we eat a lot (addicted to food) we are hungry a lot. If we eat just enough for what our bodies need then we will only be hungry when food is required. However, if we eat less than needed we will be very hungry for awhile, but then as time goes on that hungry feeling will become less frequent and we will begin to think we are eating just enough despite being in starvation.
This person, being me, has lost 42 lbs in 30 weeks. That equals out to 1.4 lbs a week. Call me crazy, but I call that SPOT ON.
I looked at your food diary briefly, and all the days I looked at- about 4- you failed to reach your calorie goal. Everybody has a sweet spot where they can get healthy and lose weight if need be. What works for one does not work for all. That is the beauty of this site. You can track and tweak til you hit your sweet spot, and if that changes you tweak some more. There is always more to learn. But one thing I can say for sure. People that continue to shove food down their throat once their body has signaled them that it is full are, imho, people that have an eating disorder.
Good luck to all in finding what works for them! You can do it! :happy:0 -
I wish I had a dollar for every time someone on this site had tried to talk down to me because I gave advice that conflicted with their pro-starvation mode stance. For those who understand what PSMF diets are for extremely obese people(or modified PSMF for those on the completely opposite end of the spectrum) understand that it often has much less to do with how many calories, rather than what TYPE of calories, and where you are getting your nutrients from. You want to keep you body out of a catabolic burning state, which is not hard to do with a constant supply of proteins and your daily BCAAs(especially leucine) Doctors prescribe PSMF diets often to the morbidly obese, and for men that is 800 calories a day(typically 60% protein, 25% carbs and 15% healthy fats) along with BCAA supplements.
So, while someone people on this site may argue a hard line on whether starvation exists or not, it is typically more a result of improperly caloric reductions, rather than your metabolism panicking.0 -
I've noticed that a lot of people have come to this site to start losing weight, mostly because they couldn't do it on their own. They create posts telling others how MFP's program is wrong, how their personal method is right, and how others should adapt it as well.
--If it is so great, why are these people coming to this site to begin with? Their methods are not working, because they're faulty.
Too many are uneducated about proper nutrition, body mechanics, and healthy weight loss. This is fine, but these people should not be spouting advice and suggestions to the rest of the community. MFP's system DOES work, and most people came here to see results. Follow the program, don't argue the methods, and enjoy a lighter/healthier body when you're done playing by the rules.
Why is this so hard?
Good post. Follow the plan and it will work. Trying to cheat the system or bend the rules is only hurting yourself.0
This discussion has been closed.
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