Starvation Mode is a Myth.

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Replies

  • scagneti
    scagneti Posts: 707 Member
    Miss Misinformation:

    Do YOUR homework first. (Note the condescending tone similar to your post.) So you know, any point discussed on this site (or any other) can find a counterpoint and copy and paste it. You are completely missing what the starvation mode is, and how it can affect someone. It's based on long-term weight loss, and your body's ability to continue to burn calories at an effective level, and upon storing calories, store them in a way that powers short term activity instead of long-term fat storage.

    If you'd like to discuss this in detail, I will happily PM my phone number, and you can call me from a blocked number and I'll help you understand this.

    Also, if you'd simply gone and worked out rather than copying and pasting random articles, you'd be in a better place. If you find this place so annoying, get your information from what you consider the other "diet sites"...

    SSG

    As I stated at the beginning of the post, they were not my words, I only posted an article I found because I found it interesting. I wanted to see what everyone would say about it. No need to call people names. I don't find this place annoying at all (where did you get that from?) I love myfitnesspal and tell everyone I know about it.
    The reason I went looking for information on starvation mode is because I was BLASTED by another user recently because of my average 900 calorie daily intake which is being monitored by a doctor. This person told me my organs were going to shut down and I was going to die. I was SHOCKED that my doctor would allow this to happen to me! So I went looking for the information. I am in a great place right now. I've lost 20 lbs in 2 months. I just recently reached a healthy BMI, which is really exciting for me! I really just wanted to see what everyone had to say about this article.....
    Peace?

    What kind of a doctor would put a person who is at or near a healthy BMI on a starvation diet? And yes, it's a starvation diet.

    When I got down to a healthy BMI, I upped my caloric intake because I didn't need to lose weight as quickly. Then when I got within a few percentage points of what I was aiming for for body fat % (I'm going for 18 -- which I'd never get to by starving myself because it's easier for the body to burn muscle than it is to burn fat. Did your blogger tell you that too?) I upped my caloric intake again. And I'm STILL losing fat and building/keeping my beautiful lean muscle because I don't have an insane deficit.
  • SiltyPigeon
    SiltyPigeon Posts: 920 Member
    My intentions for posting this article for everyone to read were misunderstood (my fault) please see this.....

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/184809-to-clear-things-up
  • Losing2Live69
    Losing2Live69 Posts: 743 Member
    I must have ADD because this post was way to long to keep my attention. We are each individuals and as the old saying goes, "different strokes for different folks". If you are indeed eating 900 calories or less a day, what does that have to do with the other 99.9% of people that eat 1200-1500 calories a day? I tried a much lower calorie count to start with. I ended up at the doctor, with heart palpitations, low blood pressure, I almost passed out several times, and my potassium and sodium were dangerously low from exercising and not taking in additional calories to compensate for it. That may work for you for a short period, but as soon as you go back to a reasonable calorie intake, you are going to gain weight. You cannot live for a prolonged amount of time with so few calories...and that my dear is what MY doctor told me. I think I would be doing a little research on this doc of yours. A lot of doctors are quacks you know?
  • scagneti
    scagneti Posts: 707 Member
    and that my dear is what MY doctor told me. I think I would be doing a little research on this doc of yours. A lot of doctors are quacks you know?

    Where did I hear the saying that many patient's doctors graduated last in their class?

    I'm sure if I'm saying it right. Anyways, I'd guess that most GPs took around two days of nutrition in med school and haven't bothered to update what they've learned since.
  • runningneo122
    runningneo122 Posts: 6,962 Member
    The following describe the various risks inherent in LCDs and VLCDs (eating below BMR, typically), especially without supervision of a doctor and dietician. And these are mostly for obese/morbidly obese people - The dangers for a relatively lean person can be far higher.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8777329&dopt=AbstractPlus

    http://www.ajcn.org/content/47/6/981.full.pdf+html

    http://www.ajcn.org/content/56/1/230S.full.pdf+html

    http://www.ajcn.org/content/39/5/695.full.pdf

    http://www.springerlink.com/content/vl488623pn1q0219/


    Long-Term Weight Patterns and Risk for Cholecystectomy in Women
    Background: Obesity and rapid weight loss in obese persons are known risk factors for gallstones. However, the effect of intentional, long-term, moderate weight changes on the risk for gallstones is unclear.

    Objective: To study long-term weight patterns in a cohort of women and to examine the relation between weight pattern and risk for cholecystectomy.

    Design: Prospective cohort study.

    Setting: 11 U.S. states.

    Participants: 47 153 female registered nurses who did not undergo cholecystectomy before 1988.

    Measurements: Cholecystectomy between 1988 and 1994 (ascertained by patient self-report).

    Results: During the exposure period (1972 to 1988), there was evidence of substantial variation in weight due to intentional weight loss during adulthood. Among cohort patients, 54.9% reported weight cycling with at least one episode of intentional weight loss associated with regain. Of the total cohort, 20.1% were light cyclers (5 to 9 lb of weight loss and gain), 18.8% were moderate cyclers (10 to 19 lb of weight loss and gain), and 16.0% were severe cyclers (≥ 20 lb of weight loss and gain). Net weight gain without cycling occurred in 29.3% of women; net weight loss without cycling was the least common pattern (4.6%). Only 11.1% of the cohort maintained weight within 5 lb over the 16-year period. In the study, 1751 women had undergone cholecystectomy between 1988 and 1994. Compared with weight maintainers, the relative risk for cholecystectomy (adjusted for body mass index, age, alcohol intake, fat intake, and smoking) was 1.20 (95% CI, 0.96 to 1.50) among light cyclers, 1.31 among moderate cyclers (CI, 1.05 to 1.64), and 1.68 among severe cyclers (CI, 1.34 to 2.10).

    Conclusion: Weight cycling was highly prevalent in this large cohort of middle-aged women. The risk for cholecystectomy associated with weight cycling was substantial, independent of attained relative body weight.
    http://www.annals.org/content/130/6/471.full

    http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v22/n6/pdf/0800634a.pdf

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8696424?dopt=Citation

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7489033&dopt=Citation

    http://www.springerlink.com/content/t462u540t7151722/

    http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0689/is_n3_v41/ai_17516395/

    http://www.jacn.org/cgi/content/full/18/6/620?ck=nck

    http://www.ajcn.org/content/53/4/826.full.pdf+html

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=2341229&dopt=Citation

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2613433?dopt=Abstract

    http://www.ajcn.org/content/49/1/93.full.pdf+html

    http://www.ajcn.org/content/45/2/391.full.pdf+html

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6694559&dopt=AbstractPlus

    http://www.ajcn.org/content/57/2/127.full.pdf

    http://www.ajcn.org/content/51/2/167.abstract?ck=nck

    http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v32/n3/abs/0803720a.html

    http://win.niddk.nih.gov/publications/low_calorie.htm
  • RushinBruisette
    RushinBruisette Posts: 2,109 Member
    .
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
    love love love this post! THANKS for setting it straight...like you said, People seem to forget that humans(sadly)all around the world die everyday of starvation, not by making sure they eat their 1200+ calories a day...

    You are talking about somethign completely different. I wish people would quit calling it starvation mode - really, it's "reduced metabolism mode" or something like that. I know there's actually a scentific name for it but I can't remember what post I saw it in. Someone starving to death and someone doing damage to their bodies (and causing weight loss to slow) because they eat too little (but not enough to truly starve) are two different scenarios.
    Similarly, your body is not going to shut down your organs or eat your muscle tissue until your fat stores are used up.

    That's not true. Obese individuals can burn more fat in higher deficits, but for people who have just a little weight to lose (or are just regular "overweight" instead of obese) cannot handle a high deficit the same way that an obese individual can. Someone of a little-more-than healthy weight who goes on a crash diet and eats 800 calories a day while still exercising (or whatever the specific scenario might be) will lose lean muscle mass because the body is not getting all the fuel it needs. The body will take some from fat, but it will take some from muscle, too.

    the technical term is either long term fasting, or the famine response. Most research calls it Long Term Fasting as it's easier to turn into an acronym that way, and scientists love their acronyms, plus it's easier to contrast it to Short Term Fasting.
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member
    admittedly I didn't read the whole thing as this is kind wordy... but I did get as far as reading the link it's copied from.
    i'm hesitant to believe things from a 'blogspot' address.
    Too often people look at calories as the enemy... but we all need them to survive.
    Moderation is key - but I'll stick to asking my Dr for advice on that front.

    YES!!! THIS IS NOT A LEGIT SOURCE! PLEASE DO BETTER RESEARCH BEFORE SAYING STUFF!

    Here is a report from the National Health Association:

    http://www.healthscience.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=512:are-you-in-the-starvation-mode-or-starving-for-truth&catid=102:jeff-novicks-blog&Itemid=267

    Surely that is a "legit source"?

    firstly, that article is a reprint from a reporter, not a scientist. Oh I've seen that article before, it's so wrong it's silly, I did a little research on that "reporter" and he's a sham, has no degree in any field even close to nutrition or exercise, and he got about 1/2 of his facts wrong. Besides the fact that he not only misquoted keys in his facts on the Minnesota starvation study, but he also only took the facts he found relevant and left out a whole bunch more from that same study that actually prove the existance of starvation mode.
  • SHBoss1673
    SHBoss1673 Posts: 7,161 Member


    As I stated at the beginning of the post, they were not my words, I only posted an article I found because I found it interesting. I wanted to see what everyone would say about it. No need to call people names. I don't find this place annoying at all (where did you get that from?) I love myfitnesspal and tell everyone I know about it.
    The reason I went looking for information on starvation mode is because I was BLASTED by another user recently because of my average 900 calorie daily intake which is being monitored by a doctor. This person told me my organs were going to shut down and I was going to die. I was SHOCKED that my doctor would allow this to happen to me! So I went looking for the information. I am in a great place right now. I've lost 20 lbs in 2 months. I just recently reached a healthy BMI, which is really exciting for me! I really just wanted to see what everyone had to say about this article.....
    Peace?

    My dear, I understand that you want this discussed, but I would hope that before you do something like this, with a topic this charged by emotion (and it is on this site) you would first at least do a search on the forums, you'll see if you do, that there's literally hundreds of posts about this very topic to read over where myself and others have already posted the research to read, or if you are so inclined, just go to www.ajcn.org and look at the studies and research for yourself.

    Anyway, think about what you just said, you were blasted by another user, Medically monitored low calorie diets are usually ok if the doctor is credible in that field, and if that's the case, why worry about what another user said? Doctor prescribed diets are the only time I'd feel comfortable, as a trainer, with someone moving forward with it. Although I am curious about the reasoning behind it. Was there some specific reason why he had you on a diet with so few calories? I ask because I HAVE done all the research, I mean the real research via medical journals and pouring over hundreds of studies done by research firms, and I can confirm that except in special cases where either the subjects were morbidly obese and could support extended very low calorie diets, or they were in some other way metabolically impaired, a diet that low was never found to be worth the risks to health.
  • Texsox
    Texsox Posts: 146 Member
    I'll let the author herself respond for me, also from her blog . . .

    "The opinions in this blog are my own. I am not a medical professional and have no specialized training or knowledge in anything I write about. Okay, except software development and project management. But, luckily for you, I don't write about that much.

    I am happy to talk about obesity, WLS, exercise, nutrition, parenting, the meaning of life, anything really, with anyone. I'll clarify anything I wrote that isn't clear to you. Plus, I love it when people comment on my blog entries.

    But I don't give advice or at least I try not to. And, if I do give you something that feels like advice, remember it's worth what you paid for it."
  • janesmith1
    janesmith1 Posts: 1,511 Member
    admittedly I didn't read the whole thing as this is kind wordy... but I did get as far as reading the link it's copied from.
    i'm hesitant to believe things from a 'blogspot' address.
    Too often people look at calories as the enemy... but we all need them to survive.
    Moderation is key - but I'll stick to asking my Dr for advice on that front.

    YES!!! THIS IS NOT A LEGIT SOURCE! PLEASE DO BETTER RESEARCH BEFORE SAYING STUFF!

    Here is a report from the National Health Association:

    http://www.healthscience.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=512:are-you-in-the-starvation-mode-or-starving-for-truth&catid=102:jeff-novicks-blog&Itemid=267

    Surely that is a "legit source"?

    No they're not a legit source OP. They are a group that promotes "fasting" & a "plant based diet" and their board of directors does not have one legitimate nutritionist on it.
  • SlimingChris
    SlimingChris Posts: 6
    Wow people give her a break.. like she has stated before. She copied and pasted this.. It is just a convertation starter.. There is no need to bash her. This should be a place of friendship and motivation.. not hate.
  • blueviolet20
    blueviolet20 Posts: 317 Member
    You can absolutely lose weight by not eating 1200 calories, and going into "starvation mode". BUT, you will NEVER maintain it, if you change your diet in the slightest. So basically you'd end up eating next to nothing for the rest of your life.

    not true for everyone

    I agree, it's not true for everyone. In fact, for anorexia patients, when they start eating more, their metabolism kicks right back in and starts burning away those calories, because their body needs them. Often, they can go back to a normal diet, and maintain a normal, healthy weight. One reason for massive weight gain after a very low calorie diet is the desire to binge eat and acting on that desire. That's one reason why it's dangerous to go on a very low calorie diet for an extended period of time, let alone the risk of nutrient deficiencies and improper organ functions. Also, typically you cannot stay on a very low calorie diet healthily, because you're weight will eventually go below the normal, healthy range, causing the need for you to up your calories anyway and gain back some weight. But, even then, you can still to a relatively decent amount of food and maintain a healthy weight. Your metabolism typically returns close to it's normal range, unless you've been depriving yourself for a very long time (a few years, let's say). It's gets tougher then. All things aside, though, if you can stay healthy, maintain good nutrition, and feel satisfied on less than 1200 calories a day, and your doctor says that you need to be below that...then I guess I don't see anything wrong about it...seems weird for me to say that, but there are stranger things in the world :)
  • Nailrep
    Nailrep Posts: 966 Member
    You can absolutely lose weight by not eating 1200 calories, and going into "starvation mode". BUT, you will NEVER maintain it, if you change your diet in the slightest. So basically you'd end up eating next to nothing for the rest of your life.

    not true for everyone

    I agree, it's not true for everyone. In fact, for anorexia patients, when they start eating more, their metabolism kicks right back in and starts burning away those calories, because their body needs them. Often, they can go back to a normal diet, and maintain a normal, healthy weight. One reason for massive weight gain after a very low calorie diet is the desire to binge eat and acting on that desire. That's one reason why it's dangerous to go on a very low calorie diet for an extended period of time, let alone the risk of nutrient deficiencies and improper organ functions. Also, typically you cannot stay on a very low calorie diet healthily, because you're weight will eventually go below the normal, healthy range, causing the need for you to up your calories anyway and gain back some weight. But, even then, you can still to a relatively decent amount of food and maintain a healthy weight. Your metabolism typically returns close to it's normal range, unless you've been depriving yourself for a very long time (a few years, let's say). It's gets tougher then. All things aside, though, if you can stay healthy, maintain good nutrition, and feel satisfied on less than 1200 calories a day, and your doctor says that you need to be below that...then I guess I don't see anything wrong about it...seems weird for me to say that, but there are stranger things in the world :)

    I totally disagree that you will automatically gain all the weight you lose as soon as you start eating normally. I am living proof. No studies or stats. After I had my 2nd son, I weighed about 175 pounds. (I'm 5'2"). I went on a low calorie diet (probably 700-800 calories a day.) I weighed about 125 pounds by the time I went back to work. That was almost 22 years ago. While I dieted, I also did cardio. No weight training - I was too broke to afford a gym membership.

    I'm now 44 years old. There are a few reasons I'm battling with my weight at this point - perimenopause, I travel for a living, so I sit much of the day, and depression. The first problem is out of my control. The second problem is offset by alittle more cardio and weights per week. The last problem, depression, surfaced after my youngest went into the Navy. I did three things...sleep, eat, and cry. I was able to get it under control and lost the weight I had gained for 2 years. Gained it all back when he deployed. I'm now dieting (not as low calorie wise as before), working out, AND getting counseling for my depression. Hopefully the three pronged approach will work for me. Long story short, I think a low calorie diet can work IF you can control your eating once you have lost the weight. If you binge eat, you WILL gain it back. I don't care HOW you lose it. AND you HAVE to do some strength training to maintain muscle mass. But mostly, people who lose weight on a low calorie diet have to understand that this is only a temporary fix if you don't modify your eating habits. Anyhow, just my two cents worth.
  • crystal_sapphire
    crystal_sapphire Posts: 1,205 Member
    lol
  • blueviolet20
    blueviolet20 Posts: 317 Member
    You can absolutely lose weight by not eating 1200 calories, and going into "starvation mode". BUT, you will NEVER maintain it, if you change your diet in the slightest. So basically you'd end up eating next to nothing for the rest of your life.

    not true for everyone

    I agree, it's not true for everyone. In fact, for anorexia patients, when they start eating more, their metabolism kicks right back in and starts burning away those calories, because their body needs them. Often, they can go back to a normal diet, and maintain a normal, healthy weight. One reason for massive weight gain after a very low calorie diet is the desire to binge eat and acting on that desire. That's one reason why it's dangerous to go on a very low calorie diet for an extended period of time, let alone the risk of nutrient deficiencies and improper organ functions. Also, typically you cannot stay on a very low calorie diet healthily, because you're weight will eventually go below the normal, healthy range, causing the need for you to up your calories anyway and gain back some weight. But, even then, you can still to a relatively decent amount of food and maintain a healthy weight. Your metabolism typically returns close to it's normal range, unless you've been depriving yourself for a very long time (a few years, let's say). It's gets tougher then. All things aside, though, if you can stay healthy, maintain good nutrition, and feel satisfied on less than 1200 calories a day, and your doctor says that you need to be below that...then I guess I don't see anything wrong about it...seems weird for me to say that, but there are stranger things in the world :)

    I totally disagree that you will automatically gain all the weight you lose as soon as you start eating normally. I am living proof. No studies or stats. After I had my 2nd son, I weighed about 175 pounds. (I'm 5'2"). I went on a low calorie diet (probably 700-800 calories a day.) I weighed about 125 pounds by the time I went back to work. That was almost 22 years ago. While I dieted, I also did cardio. No weight training - I was too broke to afford a gym membership.

    I'm now 44 years old. There are a few reasons I'm battling with my weight at this point - perimenopause, I travel for a living, so I sit much of the day, and depression. The first problem is out of my control. The second problem is offset by alittle more cardio and weights per week. The last problem, depression, surfaced after my youngest went into the Navy. I did three things...sleep, eat, and cry. I was able to get it under control and lost the weight I had gained for 2 years. Gained it all back when he deployed. I'm now dieting (not as low calorie wise as before), working out, AND getting counseling for my depression. Hopefully the three pronged approach will work for me. Long story short, I think a low calorie diet can work IF you can control your eating once you have lost the weight. If you binge eat, you WILL gain it back. I don't care HOW you lose it. AND you HAVE to do some strength training to maintain muscle mass. But mostly, people who lose weight on a low calorie diet have to understand that this is only a temporary fix if you don't modify your eating habits. Anyhow, just my two cents worth.

    So many quotes! Anyway, yeah, when I gained weight it was because of depression and binge eating...so I'm taking the three-pronged approach too. Good luck with your weight loss!
  • Nailrep
    Nailrep Posts: 966 Member
    Thanks Blue! You too! :flowerforyou:
  • Texsox
    Texsox Posts: 146 Member
    I've heard people say someone may or had starved to death, I'm trying to remember someone who starved to health and fitness :wink:
  • runningneo122
    runningneo122 Posts: 6,962 Member
    I've heard people say someone may or had starved to death, I'm trying to remember someone who starved to health and fitness :wink:

    Well said.
  • Nailrep
    Nailrep Posts: 966 Member
    I've heard people say someone may or had starved to death, I'm trying to remember someone who starved to health and fitness :wink:

    I DO know a guy who was a long distance runner. Died because of a heart issue having to do with excessive running. He didn't have an eating disorder. We was a high school track coach. (I know this is the exception - I'm just messin' with ya!!)
  • EbonyGemstoneHealth
    EbonyGemstoneHealth Posts: 249 Member
    Bump!
  • SiltyPigeon
    SiltyPigeon Posts: 920 Member
    Wow people give her a break.. like she has stated before. She copied and pasted this.. It is just a convertation starter.. There is no need to bash her. This should be a place of friendship and motivation.. not hate.

    Thank you for your support. :flowerforyou:
  • SiltyPigeon
    SiltyPigeon Posts: 920 Member
    You can absolutely lose weight by not eating 1200 calories, and going into "starvation mode". BUT, you will NEVER maintain it, if you change your diet in the slightest. So basically you'd end up eating next to nothing for the rest of your life.

    not true for everyone

    I agree, it's not true for everyone. In fact, for anorexia patients, when they start eating more, their metabolism kicks right back in and starts burning away those calories, because their body needs them. Often, they can go back to a normal diet, and maintain a normal, healthy weight. One reason for massive weight gain after a very low calorie diet is the desire to binge eat and acting on that desire. That's one reason why it's dangerous to go on a very low calorie diet for an extended period of time, let alone the risk of nutrient deficiencies and improper organ functions. Also, typically you cannot stay on a very low calorie diet healthily, because you're weight will eventually go below the normal, healthy range, causing the need for you to up your calories anyway and gain back some weight. But, even then, you can still to a relatively decent amount of food and maintain a healthy weight. Your metabolism typically returns close to it's normal range, unless you've been depriving yourself for a very long time (a few years, let's say). It's gets tougher then. All things aside, though, if you can stay healthy, maintain good nutrition, and feel satisfied on less than 1200 calories a day, and your doctor says that you need to be below that...then I guess I don't see anything wrong about it...seems weird for me to say that, but there are stranger things in the world :)

    I totally disagree that you will automatically gain all the weight you lose as soon as you start eating normally. I am living proof. No studies or stats. After I had my 2nd son, I weighed about 175 pounds. (I'm 5'2"). I went on a low calorie diet (probably 700-800 calories a day.) I weighed about 125 pounds by the time I went back to work. That was almost 22 years ago. While I dieted, I also did cardio. No weight training - I was too broke to afford a gym membership.

    I'm now 44 years old. There are a few reasons I'm battling with my weight at this point - perimenopause, I travel for a living, so I sit much of the day, and depression. The first problem is out of my control. The second problem is offset by alittle more cardio and weights per week. The last problem, depression, surfaced after my youngest went into the Navy. I did three things...sleep, eat, and cry. I was able to get it under control and lost the weight I had gained for 2 years. Gained it all back when he deployed. I'm now dieting (not as low calorie wise as before), working out, AND getting counseling for my depression. Hopefully the three pronged approach will work for me. Long story short, I think a low calorie diet can work IF you can control your eating once you have lost the weight. If you binge eat, you WILL gain it back. I don't care HOW you lose it. AND you HAVE to do some strength training to maintain muscle mass. But mostly, people who lose weight on a low calorie diet have to understand that this is only a temporary fix if you don't modify your eating habits. Anyhow, just my two cents worth.

    Thank you for sharing your story with me/us. I will take your advice and add some strength training.
  • Nailrep
    Nailrep Posts: 966 Member
    Thanks for that! And if you dip below 1000 calories to drop your weight, make sure that you reintroduce calories slowly back into your diet. Example - add 100 calories a day for 10 days. Than add back another 100 calories for 10 more days, and so on. Your metobolism will speed up quickly, but you have to bring it up slowly. Once you get to your maintenance calorie level, you will be good to go!
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