Too much protein?

MFP is set to 15% protein by default for new users... I have mine set to 30%, it's not a problem, sometimes I can't make that goal though, hello protein powder (got some today)

the 30% gave me my personal goal of 0.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight so it's right for me.

BUMP

Well if you are an active person/athlete you should only consume 1gram of protein per lean body mass. If you are sedentary you should only consume .5 - .7 grams per lean body mass. If you eat too much protein on a daily basis your body will convert the excess protein into fat.

I think the big question isn't about how much protein, but what kind. You can eat a lot of protein from plant materials such as beans, and it is really good. However, lots of animal protein might be questionable.

I think the big question isn't about how much protein, but what kind. You can eat a lot of protein from plant materials such as beans, and it is really good. However, lots of animal protein might be questionable.

Actually, animal protein is more complete and biologically available typically. If you are getting your protein from plant sources, you have to make sure you are getting some from various categories of plants so that you get all the amino acids necessary for proper muscle repair and other body tissue function. It is the saturated fat that goes along with animal proteins that we need to watch out for from a heart disease standpoint.

I take in 200g protein a day roughly. Having a decent amount of protein is fine, it's the carbs you gotta worry about right :P

Carbs are not the evil macronutrient that the media has made them out to be. Carbs provide the necessary fuel to do high intensity workouts like weight lifting and sprints so that the protein we consume can be used to repair and rebuild the muscles. Without adequate carb intake, there may not be enough protein to reach the full potential for muscular development even with a high protein intake because it is having to be broken down for fuel. It's all about balance. A few carbs, a few proteins, and a few fats. The body needs a little of everything to run optimally.

I was talking about having too many carbs, not cutting them out completely.

I take in 200g protein a day roughly. Having a decent amount of protein is fine, it's the carbs you gotta worry about right :P

Carbs are not the evil macronutrient that the media has made them out to be. Carbs provide the necessary fuel to do high intensity workouts like weight lifting and sprints so that the protein we consume can be used to repair and rebuild the muscles. Without adequate carb intake, there may not be enough protein to reach the full potential for muscular development even with a high protein intake because it is having to be broken down for fuel. It's all about balance. A few carbs, a few proteins, and a few fats. The body needs a little of everything to run optimally.

I was talking about having too many carbs, not cutting them out completely.

Depends on your workouts and needs. What is too many for some is no where near enough for others, just like calories, protein, and fat. Too much of anything can lead to fat/weight gain.

I don't even think it's the carbs that are a problem, not the natural ones anyway, but take a look at what's easily available and called food "cookies, cake, chips of various kinds, crackers, chocolate bars where you get carbs/protein/fat with none of the same good stuff you get by eating "REAL" food. If your carbs are coming from real sources then I don't think it's that big of a deal, carbs are just the current "evil regime" as fat was not so long ago (once again lumping all fat as bad when it's the transfats that are bad, while EVOO, hemp etc are "good")

I take in 200g protein a day roughly. Having a decent amount of protein is fine, it's the carbs you gotta worry about right :P

Carbs are not the evil macronutrient that the media has made them out to be. Carbs provide the necessary fuel to do high intensity workouts like weight lifting and sprints so that the protein we consume can be used to repair and rebuild the muscles. Without adequate carb intake, there may not be enough protein to reach the full potential for muscular development even with a high protein intake because it is having to be broken down for fuel. It's all about balance. A few carbs, a few proteins, and a few fats. The body needs a little of everything to run optimally.

I was talking about having too many carbs, not cutting them out completely.

Depends on your workouts and needs. What is too many for some is no where near enough for others, just like calories, protein, and fat. Too much of anything can lead to fat/weight gain.

Well yes, obviously I was talking relatively.

On a diet that has a primary goal of fat loss, I'd rather have too much protein than too many carbohydrates. Wouldn't you?

No. In order to burn fat for fuel, the chemical process requires a by product of glyolysis (pyruvate) in order to produce ATP (energy) from fat. Glycolysis is the use of glycogen or glucose (AKA Carbs) for fuel. If you do more glycolysis then you have more pyruvate to use for fat burning. If you don't have enough carbs in the form of glycogen in the muscles or glucose available from what you've eaten recently, then the body breaks down protein to convert it to glucose/glycogen to fuel glycolysis. If you are using that protein you've just consumed to fuel glycolysis, then you can't use it to repair the muscles you're damaging on a cellular level with heavy weight training or to replace the muscle you've broken down to convert to glucose for fuel. So, in order to get the most fat loss from my workouts and maintain my muscle mass so that it burns more calories as part of my BMR, I want to use carbs for fuel and save the protein for muscle repair and growth. If you are just using protein for it's jobs in the body and not for the jobs of carbs, then you don't need as much protein in the diet. Also, when you break down protein for fuel, then you have to do something with the nitrogen, which puts extra stress on the liver and kidneys that you don't get from using carbs for fuel. Not to mention the benefits of fiber from fruits, veggies, and whole grains for decreasing heart disease and cancer risk.

Now, do I think that everyone needs to eat the 70-80% carbs that I eat, No. But that is because they aren't doing the amount of exercise I do daily. (I'm on my feet 75% of my day, training clients, teaching fitness classes, and participating in various workouts in the college classes I'm taking that I don't log as exercise.) But I do put all my clients on a minimum of 45% carbs because I know how the body works. Even diabetics need adequate carbs, they just have to eat the right kind and combine the simple carbs with protein and fat so that they don't get blood sugar spikes and dips.

I take in 200g protein a day roughly. Having a decent amount of protein is fine, it's the carbs you gotta worry about right :P

Carbs are not the evil macronutrient that the media has made them out to be. Carbs provide the necessary fuel to do high intensity workouts like weight lifting and sprints so that the protein we consume can be used to repair and rebuild the muscles. Without adequate carb intake, there may not be enough protein to reach the full potential for muscular development even with a high protein intake because it is having to be broken down for fuel. It's all about balance. A few carbs, a few proteins, and a few fats. The body needs a little of everything to run optimally.

I was talking about having too many carbs, not cutting them out completely.

Depends on your workouts and needs. What is too many for some is no where near enough for others, just like calories, protein, and fat. Too much of anything can lead to fat/weight gain.

Well yes, obviously I was talking relatively.

On a diet that has a primary goal of fat loss, I'd rather have too much protein than too many carbohydrates. Wouldn't you?

No. In order to burn fat for fuel, the chemical process requires a by product of glyolysis (pyruvate) in order to produce ATP (energy) from fat. Glycolysis is the use of glycogen or glucose (AKA Carbs) for fuel. If you do more glycolysis then you have more pyruvate to use for fat burning. If you don't have enough carbs in the form of glycogen in the muscles or glucose available from what you've eaten recently, then the body breaks down protein to convert it to glucose/glycogen to fuel glycolysis. If you are using that protein you've just consumed to fuel glycolysis, then you can't use it to repair the muscles you're damaging on a cellular level with heavy weight training or to replace the muscle you've broken down to convert to glucose for fuel. So, in order to get the most fat loss from my workouts and maintain my muscle mass so that it burns more calories as part of my BMR, I want to use carbs for fuel and save the protein for muscle repair and growth. If you are just using protein for it's jobs in the body and not for the jobs of carbs, then you don't need as much protein in the diet. Also, when you break down protein for fuel, then you have to do something with the nitrogen, which puts extra stress on the liver and kidneys that you don't get from using carbs for fuel. Not to mention the benefits of fiber from fruits, veggies, and whole grains for decreasing heart disease and cancer risk.

Now, do I think that everyone needs to eat the 70-80% carbs that I eat, No. But that is because they aren't doing the amount of exercise I do daily. (I'm on my feet 75% of my day, training clients, teaching fitness classes, and participating in various workouts in the college classes I'm taking that I don't log as exercise.) But I do put all my clients on a minimum of 45% carbs because I know how the body works. Even diabetics need adequate carbs, they just have to eat the right kind and combine the simple carbs with protein and fat so that they don't get blood sugar spikes and dips.

"If you don't have enough carbs in the form of glycogen in the muscles or glucose available from what you've eaten recently, then the body breaks down protein to convert it to glucose/glycogen to fuel glycolysis."

That's if you don't have enough carbs. I (nor the thread starter) said anything about not having the required amount of carbs, the point was about an excess.

Now, you are incredibly knowledgeable with your science so I have a question that I believe you will know the answer to:

Excess consumption of protein ultimately leads to protein oxidation and excretion of it.
Excess consumptions of carbohydrates ultimately leads to Lipogenesis and is "stored as fat".

Is that correct? If not, please explain why not and link me some research papers to read (if possible).

I take in 200g protein a day roughly. Having a decent amount of protein is fine, it's the carbs you gotta worry about right :P

Carbs are not the evil macronutrient that the media has made them out to be. Carbs provide the necessary fuel to do high intensity workouts like weight lifting and sprints so that the protein we consume can be used to repair and rebuild the muscles. Without adequate carb intake, there may not be enough protein to reach the full potential for muscular development even with a high protein intake because it is having to be broken down for fuel. It's all about balance. A few carbs, a few proteins, and a few fats. The body needs a little of everything to run optimally.

I was talking about having too many carbs, not cutting them out completely.

Depends on your workouts and needs. What is too many for some is no where near enough for others, just like calories, protein, and fat. Too much of anything can lead to fat/weight gain.

Well yes, obviously I was talking relatively.

On a diet that has a primary goal of fat loss, I'd rather have too much protein than too many carbohydrates. Wouldn't you?

I would. Excess protein can and will be converted to glycogen through a process called gluconeogenesis if no carbs are present. But not all of your dietary protein intake will be converted to glucose. I believe the number is somewhere around 58% if I remember correctly. This still leaves amino acids for muscle and tissue repair.

Carbs cannot be converted to protein.

While carbs do help energize a workout, your body can function just fine without them. Also, while on a caloric deficit, you need that extra protein to help preserve your muscle. Yes, carbs are muscle sparing, but nothing is more muscle sparing than protein itself.

Also, the process to digest protein is more costly than that of carbs so you end up with less net calories on a higher protein diet. I agree you need carbs and they are not the enemy if used correctly, but to answer the above question, I would pick protein.

"If you don't have enough carbs in the form of glycogen in the muscles or glucose available from what you've eaten recently, then the body breaks down protein to convert it to glucose/glycogen to fuel glycolysis."

That's if you don't have enough carbs. I (nor the thread starter) said anything about not having the required amount of carbs, the point was about an excess.

Now, you are incredibly knowledgeable with your science so I have a question that I believe you will know the answer to:

Excess consumption of protein ultimately leads to protein oxidation and excretion of it.
Excess consumptions of carbohydrates ultimately leads to Lipogenesis and is "stored as fat".

Is that correct? If not, please explain why not and link me some research papers to read (if possible).

Here's a quick article from the Journal of Clinical Nutrition that might help explain it a bit. http://www.ajcn.org/content/61/4/952S.full.pdf

My take is that if we are in caloric deficit as MFP sets up, then storage as fat shouldn't be an issue, regardless of whether it is from carbs, protein, or fat. As a population of people who is at a caloric deficit and especially as a population of people who are doing resistance training to help create that caloric deficit, any intake (even what some would consider an excessive imbalance of one over the other) of either carbs or protein should be used to meet the metabolic needs of the body, not stored as fat. In someone who is resistance training, the muscles adapt relatively quickly to be able to store more glycogen then someone who is not resistance training. Therefore, the person who is resistance training will store more carbs as glycogen then the person who isn't resistance training. While that may show up as an increase on the scale, it is actually a fundamental adaptation in order to see future increases in muscle fiber size which will allow for a greater calorie burn later. So, if you are resistance training and in caloric deficit, you can pretty much count on the body to use the carbs and protein you are consuming and not store them as fat. So, since they aren't much to worry about from a weight standpoint, we should focus on what the body needs to fuel the activity we are doing and what the effects of their metabolism can be on other body systems (IE: Diabetes, kidney disease, heart disease, cancer, etc.) so that we function optimally.

Too many carbs = more than your body needs.

Go back to my original response and see how this has been taken way out of what I was originally saying lol. I said having too much protein is better than having too many carbs (key words being too many) and it's perfectly good advice.

I do hear the resistance training points and muscle glycogen and what not (having been on a cyclic ketogenic diet myself, doing weekly carb ups with muscle glycogen in mind).

Thanks for the article too by the way!

"If you don't have enough carbs in the form of glycogen in the muscles or glucose available from what you've eaten recently, then the body breaks down protein to convert it to glucose/glycogen to fuel glycolysis."

That's if you don't have enough carbs. I (nor the thread starter) said anything about not having the required amount of carbs, the point was about an excess.

Now, you are incredibly knowledgeable with your science so I have a question that I believe you will know the answer to:

Excess consumption of protein ultimately leads to protein oxidation and excretion of it.
Excess consumptions of carbohydrates ultimately leads to Lipogenesis and is "stored as fat".

Is that correct? If not, please explain why not and link me some research papers to read (if possible).

Here's a quick article from the Journal of Clinical Nutrition that might help explain it a bit. http://www.ajcn.org/content/61/4/952S.full.pdf

My take is that if we are in caloric deficit as MFP sets up, then storage as fat shouldn't be an issue, regardless of whether it is from carbs, protein, or fat. As a population of people who is at a caloric deficit and especially as a population of people who are doing resistance training to help create that caloric deficit, any intake (even what some would consider an excessive imbalance of one over the other) of either carbs or protein should be used to meet the metabolic needs of the body, not stored as fat. In someone who is resistance training, the muscles adapt relatively quickly to be able to store more glycogen then someone who is not resistance training. Therefore, the person who is resistance training will store more carbs as glycogen then the person who isn't resistance training. While that may show up as an increase on the scale, it is actually a fundamental adaptation in order to see future increases in muscle fiber size which will allow for a greater calorie burn later. So, if you are resistance training and in caloric deficit, you can pretty much count on the body to use the carbs and protein you are consuming and not store them as fat. So, since they aren't much to worry about from a weight standpoint, we should focus on what the body needs to fuel the activity we are doing and what the effects of their metabolism can be on other body systems (IE: Diabetes, kidney disease, heart disease, cancer, etc.) so that we function optimally.

Too many carbs = more than your body needs.

Go back to my original response and see how this has been taken way out of what I was originally saying lol. I said having too much protein is better than having too many carbs (key words being too many) and it's perfectly good advice.

I do hear the resistance training points and muscle glycogen and what not (having been on a cyclic ketogenic diet myself, doing weekly carb ups with muscle glycogen in mind).

Thanks for the article too by the way!

Okay, I guess the confusion comes in with the fact that I can't think of excess of either carbs or protein in terms of weight gain while on a caloric deficit, so I didn't understand what you were meaning.

So Tony, What do you consider to be a reasonable # of carbs for some one following a plan like facebook? I know what they recommend, but I am curious about what you think. thanks.

I'm not sure what plan you are looking at on Facebook, so I can't say for sure. When I do a nutritional analysis on someone I go by their lean body mass to determine their BMR then add in calories for their normal daily activity not counting exercise and then add in more calories for exercise. From that I subtract no more then 20% from their Total Daily Energy Expenditure to get their calorie deficit if they want to lose weight. Or I add calories for those who want to gain weight. I then use their other nutritional needs such as their workout plan and disease category (IE: Diabetes, renal disease, cardiovascular disease, etc.) to determine their specific amounts of carbs, protein, and fat and then adjust them according to their calorie needs. So, in order to give specific recommendations as to what you need for grams of carbs, I'd have to know a lot more about you. Feel free to PM me and I'll be glad to do a breakdown for you that can be more specific.

I take in 200g protein a day roughly. Having a decent amount of protein is fine, it's the carbs you gotta worry about right :P

Carbs are not the evil macronutrient that the media has made them out to be. Carbs provide the necessary fuel to do high intensity workouts like weight lifting and sprints so that the protein we consume can be used to repair and rebuild the muscles. Without adequate carb intake, there may not be enough protein to reach the full potential for muscular development even with a high protein intake because it is having to be broken down for fuel. It's all about balance. A few carbs, a few proteins, and a few fats. The body needs a little of everything to run optimally.

Starchy Carbs and Grain carbs have a high glycemic index...Eating too many of these carbs, as the USDA suggests you do, is what makes people fat. If you are already at your ideal body weight and you workout or are active all day then you can afford to consume 100 - 150 grams a carb...but...If you are trying to lose body fat you don't need to fuel your body with these carbs for energy...overweight people have enough STORED energy (fat) to use for fuel. You have to tap into those fat stores by consuming LESS carbs and sugar. Consuming too many of these carbs will only raise your blood sugar (glucose) and will overwork your pancreas (producing and overwhelming amount of insulin) to regulate your blood sugar by assisting in using a percentage of the glucose for energy...about 70 grams of the excess glucose will get stored in your liver and muscle tissue as glycogen and the rest of the excess glucose will get stored as FAT. Thats the job of insulin. This process of eating all these processed and/or whole grains, believe it or not, is the reason alot of people have TYPE 2 Diabetes.
I follow the regimen below and I lose about 1 lb a week without having to exercise everyday....but I do because I live a sedentary lifestyle so I workout everyday to make up for my inactivity..mostly strength training.

http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-to-succeed-with-the-primal-blueprint/