Children with ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder )??
Lizzy_Sunflower
Posts: 1,510 Member
My 8 year old is diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. Quite frankly, I am exhausted. He wears me out. I am exhausted and all of the conflicts are destroying my marriage.
Does anyone out there have strategies to suggest in dealing with a child that says 'no' first and thinks about it later???
It is effecting every aspect of his life, including school.
I am very afraid that if we don't get a handel on it now, I will have a juvinile delinquent on our hands by the time he is a teenager.
Any and all suugestions are greatly appreciated :flowerforyou:
Does anyone out there have strategies to suggest in dealing with a child that says 'no' first and thinks about it later???
It is effecting every aspect of his life, including school.
I am very afraid that if we don't get a handel on it now, I will have a juvinile delinquent on our hands by the time he is a teenager.
Any and all suugestions are greatly appreciated :flowerforyou:
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Replies
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Whoever diagnosed him should have recommended a good counselor as well. Find one that uses Cognitive Behavioral Therapy and works specifically with young children. Best of luck. Take care.0
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Lizzy,
do you have him medicated? Normally, not a first suggestion I go with as I'm not fond of kids and medication if at all avoidable - BUT this sounds pretty severe.0 -
My son was diagnosed with ODD at age 5 (he is now 18). I feel your pain! He was not, however diagnosed with ADHD. The constant conflict in my home was absolutely exhausting as well - particularly meal times, in my case. The only REAL good piece of advice that I ever received was to NOT ACKNOWLEDGE them whatsoever when they are acting out, etc. Physically remove yourself from the room - do not even make eye contact. They soon learn that their behavior is NOT getting them the attention they are trying to get, but in fact doing the exact opposite.
But this is not necessarily a recipe for "juvenile delinquent" - my son is far from a juvenile delinquent and definitely knows right from wrong and never gets into trouble, and really didn't over the years. He is, however, still very "disagreeable" - nothing I say or do or suggest is ever good enough and he will argue black is white, which is stressful for sure, but it could be worse.0 -
I work in an elementary school in the behavior room. We try to give them ALOT of positives when they earn, in hopes that they will want that positive attention. Maybe trying small things that he can earn? We are also very consistent with them. If he has a behavior that you dont like, make sure you treat him the same way every time he does it. The same consequence each time. And getting angry will just heighten his anxiety, so try to keep cool (which can be hard to do), but dont give in when he does something he shouldnt. Is he in any kind of therapy? Sometimes talking about how he's feeling can help too! Good luck!0
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I am a jr high teacher, but deal with 4 kids (12-13 yrs old) with ODD. I personally tell them what is expected, and both the positives AND consequences that will go along with their decision...they have a little bit of time to decide what they wanted to do. Most times they will do whatever is needed or expected, even if they complain a bit as they do it.
I will definitely tell you that I admire you for trying to find what will work! Sorry this is not much help, but I do look up to you! 0 -
I think Suzy12 had a pretty good answer....
Anyways, I've been diagnosed with ADHD, schitzophrenia, bipolar, OCD and major depression (believe it or not, all of those things!).... Medication and CBT have helped me tremendously (specifically the anti-psychotics).
In regards to children, I personally know that medication isn't always the way to go - like Suzy said, I would seek counseling first....
Hope that helps a little - best of luck! 0 -
sounds like my son lots of therapy and meds for the adhd0
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My 8 year old is diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. Quite frankly, I am exhausted. He wears me out. I am exhausted and all of the conflicts are destroying my marriage.
Does anyone out there have strategies to suggest in dealing with a child that says 'no' first and thinks about it later???
It is effecting every aspect of his life, including school.
I am very afraid that if we don't get a handel on it now, I will have a juvinile delinquent on our hands by the time he is a teenager.
Any and all suugestions are greatly appreciated :flowerforyou:
I really wish I could offer you some magical answer that will make this bearable for you. But all I can do is offer my support and sincere understanding for your situation.
My 6 y/o daughter was diagnosed with ADHD and ODD when she was 5, shortly before she turned 6 they did the hours of testing to test for disorders in the Autism Spectrum. The day she started 1st grade we were given a diagnoses of Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Probably Asperger's Syndrome.
I have yelled, begged, pleaded, cried, spanked, grounded, taken things away, given her chores, made her do exercises, used behavior modifications... EVERYTHING under the sun, and still just gone to bed and cried, beyond frustrated, with the same thoughts and fears that you have expressed.
All I can say is hang in there, don't give up. Ask about "play therapy" My daughter is doing it and it does seems to be having an affect on her "thinking before doing" issues, not a HUGE affect, but an affect lol. We've also started using a little oven timer. "In 10 minutes, when this timer goes off, it is time to put those toys away and get in the shower." Seeing it, having something visual in front of her, and giving her time to adjust to the idea of transitioning from one thing to another seems to help!0 -
Yes. He is medicated for the ADHD. . And while that helps for the concentration it does nothing for the constand rebuking of authority. I think what has made me reach out to MFP was the recent incident where he got suspended from school.for bringing a swiss army knife to class. ( worlds best mother ):0
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And yes...we are in therapy. Doing the incentive chart. I feel like it is a waste of time .... I know it probably isn't in the long run, but right now I feel like Nothing I am doing helps. Overly frustrated mommy:sad:0
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Yes. He is medicated for the ADHD. . And while that helps for the concentration it does nothing for the constand rebuking of authority. I think what has made me reach out to MFP was the recent incident where he got suspended from school.for bringing a swiss army knife to class. ( worlds best mother ):
Please do not beat yourself up. I have done it and it's gotten us no where. I have blamed myself for a REALLY long time, and taken responsibility for the way she is. It's not fair to you. While it's not really his fault either, it is NOTHING you did. You are a GREAT mother, because you are looking for answers! And that's what you and he oth need.
DON'T BEAT YOURSELF UP! YOU ARE A GOOD MOTHER!0 -
May I add this - my parents learned from NAMI that in order to help me, they had to help themselves first and foremost (or they wouldn't be able to help me at all)....
So, I would get all the support for YOURSELF that you need at this point (whatever that may mean)!
Take it easy..0 -
Hi, I am in your boat too. My son is now 16. It haas been very difficult and especially for my youngest son. All I can tell you is definatly put on ADHD meds. mine has been on adderall since 2nd grade. My husband in the early years couldnt accept the defiance and it really put alot of pressure on our marriage still does BUT we hav grown to understand the diseases and embrace them. The more you battle the worse it gets. There are some good parent support groups out there for you also, that is our next thing. Couseling of course but depending on the degree of ODD it may or may not work. Do your best not to hook into a battle then hes won, and gets great pleasure in it. ADHD is very difficult and yes I worry also about drugs etc. I just read an artical about teen ADD and kids that arent medicated usually do get into trouble. My son has great difficulty in school but is a Varsity football player now. # years of football has done amazing things for him. Not baseball, these kids need agressive exercise and disapline.
Recently my 10 year old was also diagnosed with ADD. He is a good kid by comparison to his brother. But I do see struggles with school ahead of him. Be patient, grow spiritually if your not already (that was my saving grace was by Gods help) he is the only one that has helped all of us. I pray for patients and tolerance for me and his dad and brother. We try to keep the house calm as possible. Which is extremely difficult with 3 men. Hang in there find time for exercise together with your husband, walking has been awesome for us. Good luck0 -
Ouch, Lizzie. But it's okay - it's not a zero tolerance district, obviously, or he'd be expelled. And frankly, alot of 8 year old boys would do something like that so don't worry about whether or not that's "normal". It is. Boys love weapons and they love to show off their "toys". Even grown up boys.
Okay, so I don't think a chart is helping either. I've *never* had much luck with those things. They just don't mean anything to the kid unless it's very concrete, like "I ate my veggies at dinner!" and you can't be that detailed with every single thing in life.
You *have to be* extraordinarily consistent and firm. Make up a set of house rules the he can see easily and make him aware of consequences. I'm not fond of spanking but yes - I use it when I feel like it's really necessarily. But it's a last resort. Do NOT LET HIM DEFY YOU EVEN ONCE! He knows your boundaries and limits as well as school's. He's going to keep pushing it because that's the nature of ODD. To see how far he can break the rules; which also means he knows he can.
I think the timer is a GREAT idea. And, give him an incentive AND a negative consequence ahead of time. "In 10 minutes, you need to clean up your mess. I'll reset the time for another 10 minutes and if you get it done before it goes off, I'll give you an extra 10 minutes of tv before bed; but if you don't, then you'll go to bed an extra 10 minutes early". and then follow through. You gave him his warning and time to consider what he wants to do. If he doesn't comply, inform him that bed will be 10 minutes earlier and then give him less time to clean up his mess with a more immediate consequence if he doesn't comply - such as sitting in time out for the same amount of time. If THAT doesn't work, then I'd warn that a good solid butt-thump is the last consequence, in ADDITION TO the time out and early bedtime (these are obviously just examples).
BE CONSISTENT. And talk to him about his choices AFTER the immediate consequence; have him reason through the process through inquiry. "So, what happened that you got time out today? How did you feel about that? What could have been done differently to have avoided time out? Would you have enjoyed more tv time? What do you think you'll do next time?" and be sure to give him a hug and kiss to reassure that you still love him. ALWAYS address behavior, not the child.
"That was not a nice thing you just did!" vs. "You're not being a nice boy!"
My kids know they have alot of wiggle room with me, but they also know when I'm not kidding around and I'll not hesitate to open up a can of whoop-*kitten*. For my younger, he knows when I start to count, he'd better comply long before I get to three. At that point, he's already been duly warned adn knows he's on his last leg. My older.. hmm.. well, he's a different story. Not ODD but on some days, you'd think so.
I hope some of this helps. :: hugs ::0 -
I agree with the other posters who said that your son needs to see a therapist.
I would NOT recommend medication for many reasons: 1) a child's brain is still forming and there is NO medical evidence that these medications are safe for a developing brain; 2) medication trials are conducted on adults-- a developing brain does not act at all like an adult brain so there really is little evidence that medications are effective in children in the same way they are effective in adults-- this is how we get the warnings that are now present on depression meds stating that they may cause *worse* symptoms (and even suicide) in children and young adults; 3) there are VERY few professionals that are properly trained in prescribing and monitoring medication in children-- most of it is trial and error, and that's a scary thing when playing with the health of a child.
Behavior issues in children tend to be a combination of maladaptive coping strategies for their emotions and well-intentioned parents who are unwittingly reinforcing the child's actions. Because parents often aren't able to make sense of the behaviors, they don't really know what can be done to correct things. I think seeing a specialist who can both deal with your son AND help you change so that you are correcting bad behaviors and rewarding good ones will (hopefully!) help you and your son be healthier and happier. Don't worry-- this isn't unfixable and is by no means a predictor of how things have to be in the future. 0 -
Gosh I really feel your pain and wish I knew you to give you a hug. Just dont give up....NEVER GIVE UP ON HIM!0
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Thank you all for the replies. We have such a loving MFP family here. I knew someone would understand. (((Hugs)))0
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My now 20 year old was diagnosed with ODD, ADD and is developmentally delayed. It was a long road....I looked into getting him medication when he was about 11 or 12 - and it was a huge difference. I had really been against getting him on meds before this, but it came to a point when I needed SOMETHING to change! I am fortunate enough that he is very shy, so he does not speak up or act up out in public or at his work (he now works full time in a factory)...but he saves it for home. He did act up at school sometimes when he was younger. It is hard, he does exactly the opposite of what he should do, or what you would like him to do. He doesn't listen when you suggest something or ask him something. It is better now than when he was younger, but we still have daily conflict with him - just much easier to handle.
I was called to the school many times when he was young....he once threw his shoe at a teacher and threw the chair....this is what made me look into the medication. The school even had a police officer come talk to him once - but seriously, he was not even slightly scared of the officer! He couldn't have cared less.
I say all this and at the same time, I honestly would not want him any other way. If he was any different - he would not be "my Eric".....As I said, he now works fulltime, and worked really hard in high school to get a full diploma - he was the only one in his special needs class to do so last year! High school was much better for him than grade school was all around - he was very well behaved. Probably because he really wanted to be in the "regular classes" and we told him that was a priveledge....he did not like being in his "special needs" class.
My suggestion, is find someone for YOU to talk to as well. I went to counselling several times, more just so I could have someone to talk to that I did not feel would judge me....way too many people just looked at my son and assumed - "what a bad mom!"...it was the counsellors who would remind me I did everything I could - the best that I could. It was exactly what I needed when I was feeling like we were going backwards instead of forwards.
You really need to stay strong, and be consistent!
Feel free to message me anytime!
Elle0 -
ODD is tough!! Not only for you but also your son..I know seems silly but he is really a people please and is in battle within himself which is why he says no soo easily! I did foster care and have had several children with ODD..my adopted daughter also sufferes...she is now 20 yrs old. It is soooo hard..do find a therapist for you both!! I recommend therapy which focuses on you guys together as well as each alone. You will need to add tools that you both can use. For us, meds had mixed results..but my kids had sooooo much baggage I am not sure what did what. Feel free to contact me privately if you just need to sound off or if i can help in any way !! Prayers are with you !!!0
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Most of all, the lesson I learned the hardest, he is YOUR child. People will say SO many things about medication, make you feel guilty for using it, make you feel guilty for not using it... WHATEVER it may be. He is YOUR child.
So many people made my decision to put her on medication EXCRUCIATING for me. And that IS NOT FAIR. Like this isn't already hard enough?
Trust me when I say NO ONE wants to medicate their children. No little girl has ever said "when I grow up I want medicated kids!" And if any of you are those people who are against using the meds, then that is FINE, but PLEASE have enough respect for the parents who are going through this to NOT make them feel bad for using them!
ok... off my soap box now0 -
Oh Lizzy my heart goes out to you. I have no doubt you are amazing mother.
My son who is almost 10 has ADHD and been diagnosed as having such since 5. I seriously thought he had ODD when he was little got kicked out of daycare after daycare for fighting. I eventually had to leave my job as there was no one to take care of him for me so I could work. At 21/2 he was tested as being developmentally delayed and got special preschool services but that didn't go well for him or his teachers. Finally said if no one can handle him I will have to be the one to figure it out and worked on him at home until kindergarten. They wanted to place him in "special" classes in K, but I said that he was at least average IQ, but behavior may be another story and I was working very hard with him at home- to please give him a chance. Wouldn't you know the day I discovered my son was actually gifted is the day he got OSS (out of school suspension) for kicking the principal in the legs and tearing up her pantyhose:blushing:
I'm NOT a licensed psychologist, but psychology is what my degree is in, and the more I studied the more I realized there is more than one way to do this. What finally worked for me is one comes down to 2 things: Positive rephrasing and reinforcement (ex instead of saying "Eat your dinner or you are not getting any cookies" I learned to say "Sure you can have cookies soon as dinner is over." Or "I love it when you use your inside voice" instead of "Shut up! You're loud") and secondly CONSISTENCY. And that is the hardest one. I know. BUT it is soooo important to let him know everything has cause and effect and it's HIS actions that guide the outcome. I have learned to never ever make an empty threat or a "punishment" that I am not willing to carry out. In fact I prefer to think of discipline as means to "correct a misbehavior" and in thinking in that way you tend to eventually keep both your and their held more level.
Oh goodness I could seriously go on and on and in fact will probably post more later, but feel to message me too. Just know you are not in this alone. And more so, know you ARE a wonderful mom and your son is blessed to have you! In time you guys will work through this
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oops double post!0
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I am a educated in child development and psychology though not my current field. What I have to suggest has helped tremendously w/all of the children I worked with. It's consistency and discipline to a degree that most parents don't take it. It's why these kids often (not always) thrive in institutional or school settings. It's not an easy thing to live an EXTREMELY organized and planned life but the results are amazing. Anxiety decreases as they can relax in an environment where they ALWAYS know what is coming next and what it expected of them. Conflict is greatly reduced and it will allow some peace into your household. For example, dinner: same time, same plate, same seat, same menu (like same meal EVERY Monday) and be as repetitive as possible. Even what you say and when you say it in relation to everyday activities (like, warning we are leaving the house in 5 min. for the school bus and please get your shoes one, said exactly the same way at the same time every day). You could try these extremes with one issue at a time. Personally I would try it Mon.-Fri. mornings before school, a tough chaotic time but a short enough time to be able to streamline. It will take about a month to show improvement.0
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So true about "positive rephrasing and reinforcement", as other said if you add that to a well-organized environment and repetition it really helps to relax and he will come to know what is expected from him.What finally worked for me is one comes down to 2 things: Positive rephrasing and reinforcement (ex instead of saying "Eat your dinner or you are not getting any cookies" I learned to say "Sure you can have cookies soon as dinner is over." Or "I love it when you use your inside voice" instead of "Shut up! You're loud") and secondly CONSISTENCY. And that is the hardest one. I know. BUT it is soooo important to let him know everything has cause and effect and it's HIS actions that guide the outcome. I have learned to never ever make an empty threat or a "punishment" that I am not willing to carry out. In fact I prefer to think of discipline as means to "correct a misbehavior" and in thinking in that way you tend to eventually keep both your and their held more level.
I worked in a school for more than 10 years and I always did like that. Kids knew what I wanted or not, and knew that if they didn't behave I wasn't gonna just leave it to that. It went extremely well with kids with ODD and Asperger. In fact, I often loved those kids very much because there is usually a "spark" to them, something very special that makes them different and amazing.
What I really didn't liked and had troubles with were kids who were spoiled little "normal" brats with parents who just didn't care ("if it happened at school it's none of my business and I don't wanna know about it").
HartJames is right, and I would try that (repetitive) asap. Just don't give up, in the long run it will be worth it.
You may be scared that your kid will grow up to be something bad but believe me, if you care, and if you work in cooperation with therapists, teachers, everything will turn out fine. Hang in there.0 -
THe timer is a good idea, also other things you can do that will take away you having to tell your child what to do or not to do. It helps put the ball in his court and takes you out of the loop a bit, so there will be less confrontation. I used timers and I used schedules, the began with pictures then after old enough we didn't need pictures, but I made it very clear what exactly was expected, and what the reward/priveledge was in doing so. generally the video games/computer was the best incentive for most my kids, but mostly for my son who was diagnosed with Adhd and Bipolar. As mine got older and showed an interested and ability to negotiate and make choices, then I certainly allowed for that to happen, but once the schedule/contract was made then that was what needed to be followed. We had family meetings every Sunday, and that was when things could be discussed and renegotiated.My 8 year old is diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. Quite frankly, I am exhausted. He wears me out. I am exhausted and all of the conflicts are destroying my marriage.
Does anyone out there have strategies to suggest in dealing with a child that says 'no' first and thinks about it later???
It is effecting every aspect of his life, including school.
I am very afraid that if we don't get a handel on it now, I will have a juvinile delinquent on our hands by the time he is a teenager.
Any and all suugestions are greatly appreciated :flowerforyou:
I really wish I could offer you some magical answer that will make this bearable for you. But all I can do is offer my support and sincere understanding for your situation.
My 6 y/o daughter was diagnosed with ADHD and ODD when she was 5, shortly before she turned 6 they did the hours of testing to test for disorders in the Autism Spectrum. The day she started 1st grade we were given a diagnoses of Pervasive Developmental Disorder, Probably Asperger's Syndrome.
I have yelled, begged, pleaded, cried, spanked, grounded, taken things away, given her chores, made her do exercises, used behavior modifications... EVERYTHING under the sun, and still just gone to bed and cried, beyond frustrated, with the same thoughts and fears that you have expressed.
All I can say is hang in there, don't give up. Ask about "play therapy" My daughter is doing it and it does seems to be having an affect on her "thinking before doing" issues, not a HUGE affect, but an affect lol. We've also started using a little oven timer. "In 10 minutes, when this timer goes off, it is time to put those toys away and get in the shower." Seeing it, having something visual in front of her, and giving her time to adjust to the idea of transitioning from one thing to another seems to help!0 -
Just last week my 6 year old son was diagnosed with ADHD and ODD. Doc is starting him on 10mg of Metadate. We go back in a month to review. He mentioned that he might need to see a psychiatrist, but wants to see if the medicine helps first. While we were there, he was kicking the nurses and even spit in the doctor's face. He's also spit in the dentist's face before. He doesn't like being cornered and people in his face if not willing. I've wondered where in the world he would get the idea to actually spit in an adult's face. My other son who is 8, is the complete opposite of my youngest. Blake (oldest) is sooooo sweet natured, but not my Ethan. I'm pretty tough on them and his dad is as well, as we don't want to raise bratty kids. Nothing we do for punishment phases him, his teacher agrees. We take away privileges (computer, wii, toys, etc), we send him to his room, we swat him on the butt occasionally, but seriously nothing works. I'm hoping the medicine works although I haven't noticed any change so far. When we go back next month, they might need to up the dosage. So I totally feel your pain. Feel free to add me as a friend and maybe we can help each other along the way.0
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My14 year old son is ADHD and ODD. He has been on Ritalin for a few years. It helps a little. Hes on RISPERIDONE for the ODD. Hes been on it for about 2 years .This medication has changed our lives ! Now hes just your regular rotten teenage boy !
Even his school is finaly happy . I now only get the phone calls from school every 6 months or so. It used to be every second day. I really enjoy the time I spend with my son now. Sadly it wasnt always like this. I hope that someday soon you both can be happy.0 -
I was diagnosed with ADD as a kid, and again, as an adult, and boy, did medication help! Gave me focus, motivation, and made me feel a lot better about myself cause I could actually get stuff done. I have tried counseling too, but it wasn't as effective as medication, in my case.0
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Oh Lizzy my heart goes out to you. I have no doubt you are amazing mother.
My son who is almost 10 has ADHD and been diagnosed as having such since 5. I seriously thought he had ODD when he was little got kicked out of daycare after daycare for fighting. I eventually had to leave my job as there was no one to take care of him for me so I could work. At 21/2 he was tested as being developmentally delayed and got special preschool services but that didn't go well for him or his teachers. Finally said if no one can handle him I will have to be the one to figure it out and worked on him at home until kindergarten. They wanted to place him in "special" classes in K, but I said that he was at least average IQ, but behavior may be another story and I was working very hard with him at home- to please give him a chance. Wouldn't you know the day I discovered my son was actually gifted is the day he got OSS (out of school suspension) for kicking the principal in the legs and tearing up her pantyhose:blushing:
I'm NOT a licensed psychologist, but psychology is what my degree is in, and the more I studied the more I realized there is more than one way to do this. What finally worked for me is one comes down to 2 things: Positive rephrasing and reinforcement (ex instead of saying "Eat your dinner or you are not getting any cookies" I learned to say "Sure you can have cookies soon as dinner is over." Or "I love it when you use your inside voice" instead of "Shut up! You're loud") and secondly CONSISTENCY. And that is the hardest one. I know. BUT it is soooo important to let him know everything has cause and effect and it's HIS actions that guide the outcome. I have learned to never ever make an empty threat or a "punishment" that I am not willing to carry out. In fact I prefer to think of discipline as means to "correct a misbehavior" and in thinking in that way you tend to eventually keep both your and their held more level.
Oh goodness I could seriously go on and on and in fact will probably post more later, but feel to message me too. Just know you are not in this alone. And more so, know you ARE a wonderful mom and your son is blessed to have you! In time you guys will work through this
We're totally on the same page. That was another inquiry/suggestion I was going to make - get him tested for gifted. Many ADHD kids are. These days it's called "twice exceptional". In your case, it'd be thrice. :-) Sometimes, this gives enough fodder for positive reiforcement, feedback and esteem so as to help counter some of the negative behaviors. Another thing that helps: a sport; something that requires discipline and self-control. The most immediate recommendation I can come up with is a martial art. :: hugs :: you already know you can PM me anytime. MUAH!!0 -
Tell me about it ahh its so stressful, im holding off on the meds and my son is so hyper all the time, he hardly ever sits down still and just now me & my husband got in an argument just a while ago cause my son jumped on the counter top & knocked down a crate of glass bottles and a huge mess of glass everywhere. it was a split second thing i was feeding my 7month old when he jumped up there. and thats just one of the many things he does. i wish i could give you advice but im looking for advice like you. im know how you feel though .... i forgot to mention he got a knot on his fore head a month ago when he ran straight into a pole and his school called CPS on me & they sent me to the doctor to check it. the doctor sent a fax to cps telling them it was accidental & no signs of abuse. Even though thats cleared up, cps still comes sometimes to check up & its stressful & i feel like i have to worry if he gets a bruise again cause then the school will make a big deal of it again. i have enough to deal with & then this just adds on0
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