Paleo / Primal / hunter gatherer diet
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OMG! Really? posting that crap in the other thread wasn't enough for you??? If people would spend the time working out that they spent hating on everyone else's diet/lifestyle choices, there would be a lot more skinny people in this world! Do what works for you, and just do it! Everyone is different! What works for one, might not work for another! I mean really? let's hate on a group of people that eat only clean natural occuring foods!!! please no, don't eat lots of fruits and veggies and healthy meats!!! really?
ok, sorry, had to vent, so sick of seeing this crap.
I agree. I don't understand why people are so concerned in trying to prove other's diets to be wrong? Any diet can and may work great for some people, but not for others. Just because Paleo isn't ideal for you doesn't mean it isn't ideal for others. Some people just need to get off their high horses and get over it.
Because they work for the government.
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I've always gotten a big chuckle out of that diet as well. I'm a classically trained archaeologist, and my specialization was ancient human remains. Hunting wasn't uncommon but it wasn't a staple either. That much is clear in bone records. You can also surmise this simply by examining a modern human body: we haven't evolved lengthy enough digestive tracts or sharp enough teeth to have eaten much meat until more recently. Ancient people survived largely on things like grains and seeds, although their grains were MUCH different than ours are now...our wheat for example has much less fiber in it than it used to; heads were smaller, tougher, and much less starchy than they are today. We've bred our grains just like we've bred our feeding animals: to be meaty, disproportionate, and poorer in nutrients. :frown:
I’m curious in knowing which “ancient humans” you are talking about?0 -
It necessarily follows that the activities we ascribe to Grok (and to our ancestors) are also just starting points for our exploration of optimum modern health and fitness. They form a basic framework of acceptable evolutionary precedents that are innocent until proven guilty by modern science. Our job, as Primal enthusiasts, is to examine evolutionary biology and apply rigorous standards to those precedents to determine whether they are indeed optimal and useful. This is Grok logic – taking “what would Grok do” and looking sideways at it to ensure it passes muster.0
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But the PB (and other content in the paleosphere) does not commit the naturalistic fallacy, which states that all that is natural is good, and all that is unnatural is bad. That’s far too simplistic, far too dogmatic. Life is made of gray, not stark black and white dualities. Context is everything. We may start with the “natural,” but we discard anything that isn’t also buttressed by science. It’s actually the most rational way to go about things,0
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Other analyses reveal similar results. An often referenced study from the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition estimates hunter-gatherer animal food sources constituting between 45-65% of their total energy intake. The researchers point out that previous research had only taken into account the muscle tissue of game animals as nutrition source, whereas most hunting societies typically used the full potential of the “edible carcass,” which included organ meats, fat, and even bone marrow. (No use wastin’ good eatin’!) Their efficiency meant a higher nutritional gain per hunt than researchers estimated in the past.
http://www.ajcn.org/content/71/3/682.full0 -
I see that it is getting a rise out of you when someone challenges the idea of the paleo diet, here is what I see it as and let the chips fall where they may. Back in the days of man in the paleo era they were opportunistic, eating what they could gather themselves, and if given the chance they would have gladly ate more than their fair share. The problem with today's society and eating is that we treat it like a never-ending buffet cramming to much food down our pie holes and usually not what is good for us. This is a choice, now I am not saying that you are wrong in how you get to your goals, to each their own if it works for you then way to go, keep at it. However when someone challenges your methods of getting to that goal like the OP did then that is good for the community as your diet is far from perfect, as are all diets. Hence the need for different ones to get to the same goal. The paleo diet is essentially a clean diet. My problem with it is that you have to remember that we evolved far beyond our primal brethren. Our world today has become one of instant gratification and that is a problem, we want it and we want it now for everything, food, money, results. I am not saying that the paleo diet does not have its merits but it is not the only way to be healthy, and an extreme of fat in the diet will take its toll in one for or another on some who partake of that methodology. Different cultures react to food different ways that was part of evolution, so this is why some diets work well for others and not so well for certain people. I firmly believe that if we go back to eating like they did say 3 generations ago (meaning making your own bloody meals with natural ingredients) then we would be much healthier. So I do not believe we need to go back as far as the paleo diet originates from or the ideology and in some cases idiocy behind it, depending on whom interprets it.0
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I see that it is getting a rise out of you when someone challenges the idea of the paleo diet, here is what I see it as and let the chips fall where they may. Back in the days of man in the paleo era they were opportunistic, eating what they could gather themselves, and if given the chance they would have gladly ate more than their fair share. The problem with today's society and eating is that we treat it like a never-ending buffet cramming to much food down our pie holes and usually not what is good for us. This is a choice, now I am not saying that you are wrong in how you get to your goals, to each their own if it works for you then way to go, keep at it. However when someone challenges your methods of getting to that goal like the OP did then that is good for the community as your diet is far from perfect, as are all diets. Hence the need for different ones to get to the same goal. The paleo diet is essentially a clean diet. My problem with it is that you have to remember that we evolved far beyond our primal brethren. Our world today has become one of instant gratification and that is a problem, we want it and we want it now for everything, food, money, results. I am not saying that the paleo diet does not have its merits but it is not the only way to be healthy, and an extreme of fat in the diet will take its toll in one for or another on some who partake of that methodology. Different cultures react to food different ways that was part of evolution, so this is why some diets work well for others and not so well for certain people. I firmly believe that if we go back to eating like they did say 3 generations ago (meaning making your own bloody meals with natural ingredients) then we would be much healthier. So I do not believe we need to go back as far as the paleo diet originates from or the ideology and in some cases idiocy behind it, depending on whom interprets it.
What gets a rise out of me is ignorance. It is painfully obvious most of the people that posted on here do not know what the "paleo" diet is about, including you. Did you even read the quotes I posted?
I give a big thumbs up to your statement about going back to the way we ate three generations ago.0 -
Bump, Misskim, Here we go again.0
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I think a big point most people are missing with carbs is the difference in how modern people live as opposed to our ancient relatives. Let's presume our ancient relatives did eat a lot of carbs in their diet.
Today, we drive our cars in perfect climate control to work. We take the elevator. We sit in cubicles in a perfectly climate controlled environment and punch keys on keyboards. We go home, we turn on the T.V. and sit on the sofa.
Most of our "roughest" days would be paradise to our ancient relatives.
Now, don't get me wrong, I know there are people who still earn a living doing hard, physical, work.
The point is, unless you have a job that requires a lot of hard physical labor, there probably is no point in eating so many carbs Our relatives did not have the sedentary lifestyle we do now.
I can only speak from my own experience. I am currently on the diet from the 4 hour body. This diet is pretty close to paleo, except he doesn't even advocate fruits (because the high natural sugars, and as he points out, our ancestors didn't have access to fresh fruits year round.) I eat practically no carbs or sugar. I can tell you, I have never felt this good.
On this particular diet, you're allowed one cheat day per week. You can eat whatever and as much of it as you want. I can tell you, on my cheat days when I eat any carbs or anything with sugar like cakes or cookies, I can feel my blood sugar spike and drop and I instantly feel like crap mentally and physically.
Will I, once I hit my goal weight continue with this strict diet (despite the one cheat day per week)? Yes, and no. I will probably allow myself some fruit, milk, and a few pieces of whole wheat bread per day. However, I will monitor my weight carefully, and add these foods slowly. If I get any sign that I'm gaining weight back, I will cut back.
It's important to find a diet that works for you. Some people couldn't handle this diet I'm on. It's very restrictive, it takes a lot of self-discipline. However, in the past 2 days I lost 3 lbs. 3-5 lbs per week on this diet is pretty common. I'm not even exercising.
I believe I read somewhere once that men who carry the majority of their weight in their stomach (this is me all day long) are not processing carbs efficiently. It is just logical for me to cut sugar/carbs out of my diet as much as possible. I live a very sedentary life, and without sugar and carbs my body is forced to burn the fat which is stored. Which is what our bodies were designed to do. You don't give it energy sources in the form of sugar and carbs, it's forced to burn the stored fat.
If you're exercising a lot, then carbs would probably be fine, so long as you're making sure you only consume enough that get burned off during your exercise and you don't give your body enough so that it also has to burn stored fat.
Good luck everyone, remember there are many paths to choose to arrive at the same destination. Just do what is right for you.0 -
actually I have read about the paleo diet, and that is why I said it has its merits, I do see some problems with it, and I am far from ignorant about it. I believe in common sense and balance, I see big problems with not taking advantage of what is readily available to us to promote our health. So yes the paleo diet does indeed have some good points. I like that it is a clean diet with a minimum of processed foods. My problem is that it excludes some things which are of a benefit to the modern day body. I am not super well versed in the paleo diet but I read enough to get the gist of it from previous posts.0
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Carbs are not the enemy. Sure, some carbs are more beneficial than others but carbs are not bad for you.
You need carbs for proper brain function, energy levels (even for sedentary people), and they are required for building muscle.
If you want to argue that whole grains and all natural carbs are best, I won't argue with you on that point but this notion that carbs are evil needs to go.0 -
OMG! Really? posting that crap in the other thread wasn't enough for you??? If people would spend the time working out that they spent hating on everyone else's diet/lifestyle choices, there would be a lot more skinny people in this world! Do what works for you, and just do it! Everyone is different! What works for one, might not work for another! I mean really? let's hate on a group of people that eat only clean natural occuring foods!!! please no, don't eat lots of fruits and veggies and healthy meats!!! really?
ok, sorry, had to vent, so sick of seeing this crap.
Relax, lol. They're having a healthy, MFP-allowable debate. Discussion does NOT equal an argument. If it does, the mods step in (as they have before) and will handle it. No need to get all worked up over nothing! If this upsets you so much... ignore it and skip through to a different thread!
Frankly, I'm not brave enough to get involved, but as someone who's interested in learning about it, these discussions are a GREAT, fast, efficient way to learn the main points, pros/cons, and see evidence presented by both sides. Please let the rest of us enjoy this thread. Thank you! 0 -
you are bang on here, carbs are not the devil, we need them to function it is just a matter of choosing the better ones.Carbs are not the enemy. Sure, some carbs are more beneficial than others but carbs are not bad for you.
You need carbs for proper brain function, energy levels (even for sedentary people), and they are required for building muscle.
If you want to argue that whole grains and all natural carbs are best, I won't argue with you on that point but this notion that carbs are evil needs to go.0 -
The point is, unless you have a job that requires a lot of hard physical labor, there probably is no point in eating so many carbs Our relatives did not have the sedentary lifestyle we do now.
Amen to this! My grandfather (an insurance executive who lived a very sedentary life) ate the same way as his father (a farmer who did a lot of manual labor). My great-grandfather lived to be 97 and was relatively healthy until the end. My grandfather had his first stroke at 68, a couple of heart attacks in his 70's, and died of another stroke at 80.0 -
I should point out the diet I'm on, from the 4 hour body, allows carbs. Except, they are what's called slow burning carbs. In other words, they don't spike your blood sugar. For example, I eat black beans at least once a day, most days twice a day. 1 cup of black beans has 41 grams of carbs. However, I can eat as many black beans as I want.0
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I've always gotten a big chuckle out of that diet as well. I'm a classically trained archaeologist, and my specialization was ancient human remains. Hunting wasn't uncommon but it wasn't a staple either. That much is clear in bone records. You can also surmise this simply by examining a modern human body: we haven't evolved lengthy enough digestive tracts or sharp enough teeth to have eaten much meat until more recently. Ancient people survived largely on things like grains and seeds, although their grains were MUCH different than ours are now...our wheat for example has much less fiber in it than it used to; heads were smaller, tougher, and much less starchy than they are today. We've bred our grains just like we've bred our feeding animals: to be meaty, disproportionate, and poorer in nutrients. :frown:
I like you.0 -
Carbs are not the enemy. Sure, some carbs are more beneficial than others but carbs are not bad for you.
You need carbs for proper brain function, energy levels (even for sedentary people), and they are required for building muscle.
If you want to argue that whole grains and all natural carbs are best, I won't argue with you on that point but this notion that carbs are evil needs to go.
First off the statement that you need carbs for proper brain function is a lie, flat out not true. I'm not saying you are lying, (who knows if you are or not) but at the very least you are repeating a lie that you think is true.
And your straw man argument about carbs being evil is what has to go, NO ONE SAID CARBS ARE EVIL. So claiming that someone said it and the shooting it down is pointless.0 -
I've always gotten a big chuckle out of that diet as well. I'm a classically trained archaeologist, and my specialization was ancient human remains. Hunting wasn't uncommon but it wasn't a staple either. That much is clear in bone records. You can also surmise this simply by examining a modern human body: we haven't evolved lengthy enough digestive tracts or sharp enough teeth to have eaten much meat until more recently. Ancient people survived largely on things like grains and seeds, although their grains were MUCH different than ours are now...our wheat for example has much less fiber in it than it used to; heads were smaller, tougher, and much less starchy than they are today. We've bred our grains just like we've bred our feeding animals: to be meaty, disproportionate, and poorer in nutrients. :frown:
I guess not all archaeologist agree with your classical training.
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn4122-meat-eating-is-an-old-human-habit.htmlEating meat requires teeth adapted more to cutting than to grinding. The ability to cut is determined by the slope of the cusps, or crests. "Steeper crests mean the ability to consume tougher foods," Ungar says. He has found that the crests of teeth from early Homo skeletons are steeper than those of gorillas, which consume foods as tough as leaves and stems, but not meat.0 -
OMG! Really? posting that crap in the other thread wasn't enough for you??? If people would spend the time working out that they spent hating on everyone else's diet/lifestyle choices, there would be a lot more skinny people in this world! Do what works for you, and just do it! Everyone is different! What works for one, might not work for another! I mean really? let's hate on a group of people that eat only clean natural occuring foods!!! please no, don't eat lots of fruits and veggies and healthy meats!!! really?
ok, sorry, had to vent, so sick of seeing this crap.
Relax, lol. They're having a healthy, MFP-allowable debate. Discussion does NOT equal an argument. If it does, the mods step in (as they have before) and will handle it. No need to get all worked up over nothing! If this upsets you so much... ignore it and skip through to a different thread!
Frankly, I'm not brave enough to get involved, but as someone who's interested in learning about it, these discussions are a GREAT, fast, efficient way to learn the main points, pros/cons, and see evidence presented by both sides. Please let the rest of us enjoy this thread. Thank you!
I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to vent and say whatever I feel just like everyone else is!0 -
OMG! Really? posting that crap in the other thread wasn't enough for you??? If people would spend the time working out that they spent hating on everyone else's diet/lifestyle choices, there would be a lot more skinny people in this world! Do what works for you, and just do it! Everyone is different! What works for one, might not work for another! I mean really? let's hate on a group of people that eat only clean natural occuring foods!!! please no, don't eat lots of fruits and veggies and healthy meats!!! really?
ok, sorry, had to vent, so sick of seeing this crap.
Relax, lol. They're having a healthy, MFP-allowable debate. Discussion does NOT equal an argument. If it does, the mods step in (as they have before) and will handle it. No need to get all worked up over nothing! If this upsets you so much... ignore it and skip through to a different thread!
Frankly, I'm not brave enough to get involved, but as someone who's interested in learning about it, these discussions are a GREAT, fast, efficient way to learn the main points, pros/cons, and see evidence presented by both sides. Please let the rest of us enjoy this thread. Thank you!
I'm pretty sure I'm allowed to vent and say whatever I feel just like everyone else is!
Except you are attacking the person while others are attacking the ideas. There is a difference.0
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