Proposed structure/plan for healthy bulking/fat loss.

ToxicOnes
ToxicOnes Posts: 21
edited October 2014 in Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
I am roughly about 15% body fat, most likely. I can't afford a doctor and I don't have insurance, so I can't give you an exact number. Don't ask for something 100% accurate.

Goal: Bulk
Current weight: About 180
Height: 5'9
Body Fat estimate: Listed above. This is not 100% accurate, but after a few tests of sorts, seems highly plausible.

This number is a bit high, based off research, when it comes to bulking. That said... Here is my proposed structure.

Two week diet (Phase 1) Exercise: Heavy cardio, no lifting, deficit calories
Maintain calories diet (Phase 2) Exercise: heavy cardio, no lifting, maintaining calories
Bulking diet (Phase 3) Exercise: No cardio, heavy lifting, surplus calories

I am thinking 2 week phases will be good. The diet phase will help me cut the body fat number. The maintaining time will be good to regulate my body back to normal levels, before I jump into gaining weight. From what I read, jumping straight into bulking from dieting has adverse affects. The third phase would obviously be bulking. I will then repeat this.

Should I alter time lengths? Add phases? Rethink phases? Anything at all? I want input from people experienced in this area. If I need to make one phase longer than another, let me know. I am trying my best to do this healthily and progressively.

Thanks in advance for the input.

Replies

  • SteveJWatson
    SteveJWatson Posts: 1,225 Member
    Why would you not lift when you are cutting?

    Cutting: Lift, (cardio if you choose), eat at a deficit

    Bulking: Lift, eat at a surplus.
  • ToxicOnes
    ToxicOnes Posts: 21
    edited October 2014
    I am new to the whole bulking thing. So, excuse my rookie mistakes and misunderstandings lol. So, what is a better plan for the cutting stage? Should I do less/more/equal lifting as I would in the bulking stage (where I eat surplus)? How much should I lift in this time? It seems like too heavy of lifting in this stage would be bad.

    I do know when I focus on bulking and bulking alone that cardio needs to be minimal. I am opting to do none since the deficit phase will be heavy cardio.
  • AliceDark
    AliceDark Posts: 3,886 Member
    So, your body doesn't respond to changes that quickly. It'll be impossible for you to see the effects of the changes you make, and make any necessary adjustments, if you're running two-week cycles. You'll end up spinning your wheels and won't have any idea if what you're doing is causing any changes, positive or negative, whatsoever.

    Either do a recomp, where you eat at maintenance and lift, or commit to bulking. It's freaky as heck seeing the scale go up, but take it slow and steady and trust that you can cut the fat off after you gain.
  • ToxicOnes
    ToxicOnes Posts: 21
    Ah, so the plan is faulty? What exactly is it that makes it faulty and/or bad? I just want to understand these things. What tips do you have for the best recomp results?
  • AliceDark
    AliceDark Posts: 3,886 Member
    It can take 3-4 weeks at a certain intake level before you have any idea whether or not what you're doing is working. If you go into the Losing Weight forum, you'll see TONS of people freaking out about why they've been dieting for a week and haven't seen any changes. It's because the human body doesn't work that way -- it takes time to produce results based on what you change. The same thing is true of gaining, and maintaining.

    Have you seen this site? It's a phenomenal guide to bulking: http://strengthunbound.com/

    This site is also really informative: http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/

    Bulking is confusing as hell. It's WAY more of a mental challenge than losing. Your first bulk is really not the time to be trying to reinvent the wheel -- read everything you can find that was written by people who have bulked before.
  • Hornsby
    Hornsby Posts: 10,322 Member
    edited October 2014
    ToxicOnes wrote: »
    Ah, so the plan is faulty? What exactly is it that makes it faulty and/or bad? I just want to understand these things. What tips do you have for the best recomp results?

    Even if you were bulking using steroids, which speeds up the process dramatically, you would still go on a 10 week cycle. What does that say about an all natural bulk cycle of 2 weeks? Just a point to say you are going to have to go at it longer than that.


  • ToxicOnes
    ToxicOnes Posts: 21
    This is why I made this post. To fact check myself, and make sure I am not doing it all wrong.
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
    There is so much to learn that its hard to put in a single post.

    Basics comes down to:

    Resistance training is for building/maintaining muscle and strength.

    Cardio/endurance training is for heart and lung health and/or improving performance in those activities.

    Calorie/macro management for weight control and body composition.

    For the resistance training there is no reason to cycle on and off. Pick a lifting program and follow it whether you are trying to lose weight or gain it. While losing weight it will maintain your muscle and strength. If you dont use it, you lose it. While gaining weight it will promote the growth of new muscle.

    For cardio how much you do should be based on you goals. If you are just doing it for health then you can do 20-30 minutes of moderate intensity a few times per week. If you are doing it to train for a specific sport then get on a program that helps with that. You can also do it for the calorie burn for weight loss but that should mainly be a function of controlling what you eat. Which ever one you choose there really is not a reason to cycle it unless you are really serious about gaining muscle. Training for a marathon and trying to gain muscle might be tough to do at the same time.

    Calorie and macro management is for weight loss/gain and manipulating body composition. You want to eat the amount of calories that meet your goal. If you want to lose weight eat at a deficit. To large of a deficit from diet or excessive exercise can lead to fatigue and muscle loss so more is not better. If you want to gain weight (new muscle) then want to eat at maintenance or in a slight surplus. Most people gain muscle pretty slowly so putting on weight quickly will lead to fat gain.

    Part of controlling calories is controlling the amounts protein, fats and carbs as well as vitamins and other essential nutrients. This gets a little complicated but a very basic guideline would be 1 gram of protein per pound of your goal weight. Half that number in grams of fat and the rest can be carbs.



    In your last post people gave you some programs to chose from. There really is no reason for you invent your own.

    Here is a great free resource.
    http://www.canditotraininghq.com/free-strength-programs/
  • karenj_m
    karenj_m Posts: 215
    @AliceDark great links....I'll be reading those
  • Jschrolms
    Jschrolms Posts: 40 Member
    First, work out what your BMR is and how many Calories your body needs for the day, then add on an extra 500 cals and make that your target. you can use this website
    http://www.ibodyfit.com/calc-mycalories.php
    then make sure you are eating about 40% Carbs 40% Protein and 20% Fats
    also make sure you are only eating High GI foods either first thing in the morning or straight after a workout, all other time eat low GI carbs.
    only do cardio twice a week, do 20 mins of High intensity interval training and leave it at that.
    Lift Heavy and go Hard! do each muscle group twice per week, do like 16 sets per muscle group, you are taking in all this extra food that is going to help your body recover and grow so take advantage of that.
    DONT EAT SUGAR, just dont..

    Also Make sure you are eating at least every 3 hours!

  • ToxicOnes
    ToxicOnes Posts: 21
    I really liked some of the tips and sites offered. Thanks for the assistance everyone.
  • caesar164
    caesar164 Posts: 312 Member
    Dude, you need to start lifting, and love it! You need to build a foundation! This will make cutting easier; those phases are not a good idea, cardio doesn't only burn fat out also burns muscle! Start doing squats, deadlift, bench presses,military presses, barbell curls, dips, etc; keep a log,and try to get stronger. Go on bodybuilding.com for a good beginner routine. Always lift though,and never stop. Cutting and bulking is done in the kitchen. Adjusting your diet, either deficit or surplus; but the lifting should remain constant. Good luck man!
  • caesar164
    caesar164 Posts: 312 Member
    Jschrolms wrote: »
    First, work out what your BMR is and how many Calories your body needs for the day, then add on an extra 500 cals and make that your target. you can use this website
    http://www.ibodyfit.com/calc-mycalories.php
    then make sure you are eating about 40% Carbs 40% Protein and 20% Fats
    also make sure you are only eating High GI foods either first thing in the morning or straight after a workout, all other time eat low GI carbs.
    only do cardio twice a week, do 20 mins of High intensity interval training and leave it at that.
    Lift Heavy and go Hard! do each muscle group twice per week, do like 16 sets per muscle group, you are taking in all this extra food that is going to help your body recover and grow so take advantage of that.
    DONT EAT SUGAR, just dont..

    Also Make sure you are eating at least every 3 hours!
    This type of lifting is to much for a noob... This is more for an advanced lifter...overkill
  • Unknown
    Unknown
    This content has been removed.
  • NRBreit
    NRBreit Posts: 319 Member
    Get on a good training plan and stick with it for at least 3-4 months. Commit to either bulking or cutting for this time period. You can't do both. Eat around 1g of Protein per pound of LBM. If you're bulking maintain a 250-500 cal surplus. If you're cutting maintain a 250-500 deficit. Constantly changing your workout routine or calorie intake will go you nowhere.
  • PwrLftr82
    PwrLftr82 Posts: 945 Member
    MrM27 wrote: »
    Jschrolms wrote: »
    First, work out what your BMR is and how many Calories your body needs for the day, then add on an extra 500 cals and make that your target. you can use this website
    http://www.ibodyfit.com/calc-mycalories.php
    then make sure you are eating about 40% Carbs 40% Protein and 20% Fats
    also make sure you are only eating High GI foods either first thing in the morning or straight after a workout, all other time eat low GI carbs.
    only do cardio twice a week, do 20 mins of High intensity interval training and leave it at that.
    Lift Heavy and go Hard! do each muscle group twice per week, do like 16 sets per muscle group, you are taking in all this extra food that is going to help your body recover and grow so take advantage of that.
    DONT EAT SUGAR, just dont..

    Also Make sure you are eating at least every 3 hours!

    Yup, so basically everything that is in the quote above is wrong.

    Agreed. Not sure where this guy gets his information from, but please, OP, DO NOT listen to it. AT ALL.

Categories