Let's ruffle some feathers...
Celo24
Posts: 566 Member
One of the people that annoys me most in this world is Mavericks owner Mark Cuban (I'm a Spurs fan so it's in my genetic makeup to despise Cuban). However, he has one quote that I LOVE: "If everyone agrees with you, it's a waste of time." Could not agree more. My grandfather always used to tell me that to be a TRUE friend, you have to be willing to risk losing that friendship when necessary. You have to be able to tell people what they NEED to hear and not always tell them what they WANT to hear.
Earlier tonight, I posted a blog with a similar message. A lot of people agreed with me. A few people bashed me. And honestly, I enjoy both points of view. I am smart enough to know that I don't know everything. There are a lot of people who are more educated than I am, that are more motivational than I am and who work harder than I do. But unless you are willing to buck the system a bit and tell the brutal truth, what good does that do?
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying you have to be mean or rude. I was raised a Texas boy and raised to be polite and respectful. However, polite and respectful do not equal babying people and allowing destructive behaviors. Sure, some people face obstacles I can't even imagine. There are the people with medical issues. There is the single mom who has to work three jobs to keep food on the table. There are always exceptions to every rule. But, by and large, when people allow themselves to gain weight and get out of shape, it is USUALLY poor diet and lack of exercise. And THOSE people are just going to have to work harder than they ever have before to get into shape.
I personally feel that "tough love" is the shortest path to success. If I was on the Biggest Loser, I would want Jillian to yell, scream, bully and beat my *kitten* into submission. You know why? Because (1) it takes away any excuses and (2) it works. None of us are Jillian Michaels. But we can all learn something from her. True support does not always mean playing nice. It means playing to win and playing to reach your goals.
Agree? Disagree? Let's hear your thoughts....
Earlier tonight, I posted a blog with a similar message. A lot of people agreed with me. A few people bashed me. And honestly, I enjoy both points of view. I am smart enough to know that I don't know everything. There are a lot of people who are more educated than I am, that are more motivational than I am and who work harder than I do. But unless you are willing to buck the system a bit and tell the brutal truth, what good does that do?
Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying you have to be mean or rude. I was raised a Texas boy and raised to be polite and respectful. However, polite and respectful do not equal babying people and allowing destructive behaviors. Sure, some people face obstacles I can't even imagine. There are the people with medical issues. There is the single mom who has to work three jobs to keep food on the table. There are always exceptions to every rule. But, by and large, when people allow themselves to gain weight and get out of shape, it is USUALLY poor diet and lack of exercise. And THOSE people are just going to have to work harder than they ever have before to get into shape.
I personally feel that "tough love" is the shortest path to success. If I was on the Biggest Loser, I would want Jillian to yell, scream, bully and beat my *kitten* into submission. You know why? Because (1) it takes away any excuses and (2) it works. None of us are Jillian Michaels. But we can all learn something from her. True support does not always mean playing nice. It means playing to win and playing to reach your goals.
Agree? Disagree? Let's hear your thoughts....
0
Replies
-
i'm not willing to risk frienships over something as childish as sports fandom0
-
GO SPURS GO...
and.. YAY TEXAS lol
And I read your blog earlier. Haha. I agree. That is all.
I am the same way with people- mom, friends.. if you do not want to put in the work, you will not see results. point. blank.
I worked on running long distance by myself, no MFP, no running buddy.. Just me. It is possible, and I never gave myself an out.0 -
i'm not willing to risk frienships over something as childish as sports fandom
Way to miss the entire point of the post.0 -
I agree with you whole-heartedly.0
-
Sports aside, Jillian would make me cry and I'd quit because I'd feel as if I was never going to live up to what she expected of me. However bob is more my style, even on my Biggest Loser Challenge I refuse to pick Jillian as my trainer (I don't know if shes "mean" on there or what but I haven't even tried,lol) I much prefer bobs gentle coaching with things like "Come on baby you can do this" and " you got it" or even things like "nuhuh don't pull out of this" not to mention hes cute as all get up
I'm sure the cuteness helps. 0 -
I say "Keep a ruffling!!!"
No-one says 'boo' to anyone these days..kids screaming in shops ....fat people wanting instant fixes...smokers bludging off the medical system....self inflicted so... hey guys....BOO!!!
Wake up and get into action (and I'm talking to myself too)
That's all
0 -
You'd be in for a surprise if you DID try Jillian as your trainer :P0
-
I have always been a very submissive person, but I'm learning to be more assertive. Hearing your point of view helps me understand a little more where I might be able to make some changes. So thank you! I agree that real friends tell it like it is, tactfully of course. You seem like you are willing to take some criticism yourself and willing to admit when you're wrong, so that's good too. Discussion back and forth helps me learn, no matter who is "right" and who is "wrong." And there are a lot of aspects of losing weight that aren't set in stone.
I love it that someone was so willing to help you demostrate!0 -
GO SPURS GO...
and.. YAY TEXAS lol
And I read your blog earlier. Haha. I agree. That is all.
I am the same way with people- mom, friends.. if you do not want to put in the work, you will not see results. point. blank.
I worked on running long distance by myself, no MFP, no running buddy.. Just me. It is possible, and I never gave myself an out.
Spurs got lucky tonight, but I guarantee they won't make it past first round! PFFFFFFFFFFFT :laugh:0 -
Sports aside, Jillian would make me cry and I'd quit because I'd feel as if I was never going to live up to what she expected of me. However bob is more my style, even on my Biggest Loser Challenge I refuse to pick Jillian as my trainer (I don't know if shes "mean" on there or what but I haven't even tried,lol) I much prefer bobs gentle coaching with things like "Come on baby you can do this" and " you got it" or even things like "nuhuh don't pull out of this" not to mention hes cute as all get up I'm sure the cuteness helps.
I Picked Jillian as my trainer on that game and I have Jillian but she has Bob's voice kinda creepy.
Yes I also agree with this post. Being open and honest is the best way all the way0 -
i'm not willing to risk frienships over something as childish as sports fandom
Way to miss the entire point of the post.
Clearly dude doesn't like reading. :P
But yeah, I agree with you. And I already feel like I've pissed people off on this site but I tell it like it is -- to your face or on a forum. I have NO problem telling someone they're wrong if I truly believe they're wasting their time and energy and sadly, I think a lot of people who desire to lose weight are sabotaging themselves with excuses and ignorance.0 -
You asked for our thoughts and here's mine:
I don't feel any need for arrogance here. Where does that get anyone? I can tell you where it got me...FAT! My father was like that and rode my *kitten* about losing weight. It only succeeded in making matters worse. Not everyone is a "one-size-fits-all" answer here. I think being harsh isn't always called for. Some can take it and some can't.
What worked for me was being diagnosed with Diabetes and being taught things. Sadly, not everyone here is lucky enough to have that at their disposal. I only had it through the default of a diagnosis.
I understand the frustration behind the nonsense excuses. Unless you know for a fact they're nonsense excuses, I caution you on voicing arrogance towards someone as you may do more damage than good. I don't tolerate the, "I'm just too tired" excuse if there isn't a reason to be tired. I'm tired nearly every single day and I push through things. There are times I just can't. I've actually had my friends get on my case to take a day off. At the time, I felt guilty for doing so. The next day, I realized they were right. They didn't beat me down mentally to do it, though.
Everyone is different. Every situation is different, as well. My health is just that...MY health. I'm not holding anyone else responsible for it. Therefore, when it comes to what I eat, it's my money that paid for it. I'm not driving an hour to Trader Joe's or Whole Foods to spend a fortune in gas and ridiculously priced groceries when what I get works just fine. I'll welcome donations from anyone who cares to judge my choices, though. 0 -
i agree! i might be a little too brutal with my honesty though lol. but i swear it is tough love!0
-
I'm all for honesty aimed with best interest at heart. It's what I respect in a human being the most
0 -
I don't condone lying, but I also don't think that the "brutal" truth is always the most productive way to accomplish a goal, such as to "help" someone change his behavior. The fact is that you can't change anyone but yourself. What you're advocating is the equivalent of nagging.
Indulge me in using some superlatives here: NOTHING is EVER black and white when it comes to human relationships. The secret to good relationships is the ability to adjust one's approach to fit the situation and the individual(s) involved.
For me, personally, negative "coaching" or people who yell at me, as you put it, to "beat my *kitten* into submission" only get removed from my list of associates posthaste. That approach absolutely DOES NOT WORK for me. I know whereof I speak; I have had to end long-standing friendships for many reasons over the years, after trying to work it out. It amounts to the "friend" not being able to accept me as I am.
An important factor you do not mention here is that people who are overweight or obese are likely to have low self-esteem. If you tell someone with low self-esteem enough times that they suck as a human being (which is the message society already sends us, especially us obese women), they often take it to heart and come to believe it themselves. I have been there and I want no part of that vicious cycle anymore.
Something else you mention is that you are male. The "tough love" approach may work more frequently for men than for women, who are typically (but not always) more nurturing and respond better to a "softer" approach. It helps to provide affirmation and encouragement rather than "do it or else." A combination can also work.
I, too, am interested to hear what others have to say.0 -
If anyone yells or screams at me, my inclination is to oppose and resist whatever they want me to do (or simply to quit and get out of the situation wherein I'm the target of such abuse).0
-
You asked for our thoughts and here's mine:
I don't feel any need for arrogance here. Where does that get anyone? I can tell you where it got me...FAT! My father was like that and rode my *kitten* about losing weight. It only succeeded in making matters worse. Not everyone is a "one-size-fits-all" answer here. I think being harsh isn't always called for. Some can take it and some can't.
What worked for me was being diagnosed with Diabetes and being taught things. Sadly, not everyone here is lucky enough to have that at their disposal. I only had it through the default of a diagnosis.
I understand the frustration behind the nonsense excuses. Unless you know for a fact they're nonsense excuses, I caution you on voicing arrogance towards someone as you may do more damage than good. I don't tolerate the, "I'm just too tired" excuse if there isn't a reason to be tired. I'm tired nearly every single day and I push through things. There are times I just can't. I've actually had my friends get on my case to take a day off. At the time, I felt guilty for doing so. The next day, I realized they were right. They didn't beat me down mentally to do it, though.
Everyone is different. Every situation is different, as well. My health is just that...MY health. I'm not holding anyone else responsible for it. Therefore, when it comes to what I eat, it's my money that paid for it. I'm not driving an hour to Trader Joe's or Whole Foods to spend a fortune in gas and ridiculously priced groceries when what I get works just fine. I'll welcome donations from anyone who cares to judge my choices, though.
You are absolutely correct. Everyone IS different and I don't pretend to know everyone's motivations. That would be impossible. You have a fantastic attitude and great accountability to yourself. I think that's awesome. Unfortunately, not everyone has that inner strength and many need some guidance and support. And you're right that some can't take the "tough love" approach and prefer a softer touch. My point is that even the softer touch (which I admittedly am not good at) needs to be straightforward and telling people things that they don't always want to hear rather than "good job" on a day when someone is under because all they ate that day was a large supreme pizza. Maybe I came across as arrogant and if so, I'm ok with that. I'm not perfect either but, in my opinion, there are worse flaws to have.
And for the person that said I'd be in for a surprise if I DID have Jillian as my trainer, I have NO doubt that you are right. However, that is a surprise I would welcome as I KNOW that I would be stronger after working with her than I am today.0 -
I don't condone lying, but I also don't think that the "brutal" truth is always the most productive way to accomplish a goal, such as to "help" someone change his behavior. The fact is that you can't change anyone but yourself. What you're advocating is the equivalent of nagging.
Indulge me in using some superlatives here: NOTHING is EVER black and white when it comes to human relationships. The secret to good relationships is the ability to adjust one's approach to fit the situation and the individual(s) involved.
For me, personally, negative "coaching" or people who yell at me, as you put it, to "beat my *kitten* into submission" only get removed from my list of associates posthaste. That approach absolutely DOES NOT WORK for me. I know whereof I speak; I have had to end long-standing friendships for many reasons over the years, after trying to work it out. It amounts to the "friend" not being able to accept me as I am.
An important factor you do not mention here is that people who are overweight or obese are likely to have low self-esteem. If you tell someone with low self-esteem enough times that they suck as a human being (which is the message society already sends us, especially us obese women), they often take it to heart and come to believe it themselves. I have been there and I want no part of that vicious cycle anymore.
Something else you mention is that you are male. The "tough love" approach may work more frequently for men than for women, who are typically (but not always) more nurturing and respond better to a "softer" approach. It helps to provide affirmation and encouragement rather than "do it or else." A combination can also work.
I, too, am interested to hear what others have to say.
I agree. Nothing is black and white and everyone has their own challenges. When I talked about "beating my *kitten* into submission," I was talking about Jillian Michaels and how SHE works with her people. I never said I do that. I also never said anything about negative coaching. In fact, I specifically stated that I do not advocate people being mean or rude. All I said was that brutal honesty is often effective. It is my impression that many people want constant reassurance and bristle when someone suggests they need to change something or try something different.
One other thing, I would NEVER tell anyone they suck as a human being. I have plenty of friends, relatives and co-workers who struggle with their weight. Many of them are very nice people and people I am proud to know. Skinny, fat, black, white, tall, short....none of that stuff makes someone nice or mean and I would never, EVER judge someone for that.
The gentle touch can work. So can tough love. My point is that TRUE honesty has to be the driving factor behind either one of them.0 -
[/quote]
"Clearly dude doesn't like reading. :P
But yeah, I agree with you. And I already feel like I've pissed people off on this site but I tell it like it is -- to your face or on a forum. I have NO problem telling someone they're wrong if I truly believe they're wasting their time and energy and sadly, I think a lot of people who desire to lose weight are sabotaging themselves with excuses and ignorance.
[/quote]"
Yes, some of us do sabotage ourselves with excuses and ignorance. I am one of them. I realize that. But it isn't as easy as realizing it and then putting an end to it, and that is what a lot of people don't understand. A HUGE majority of people that I know sabotage themselves everyday. And there are many ways of doing that than with just food. And it isn't just people who are overweight. We ALL do it. Personally, I choose to do it with food. I have used other ways to do that in the past that I am not proud of. Unfortunatelly it's a cycle that is a part of how I function. And until I realize what it is that fuels that cycle, stopping my excuses and ignorance to exercise and eat healthy may get me to lose some weight. But it will also lead me self sabotage in another way. I know that, because I have done that before. I'm very well personally aware of every pound I have put on my body. I was there when it happened. Yet, I chose to do it.
There is a big difference between being honest and supportive with the best intention, and being judgmental and accusing. Being judgemental would actually stop someone from opening up and trying to explore reasons why they do it. It would do that to me. That is why I joined MFP. Because this site provides the space and time and constant support from many open hearted people that know exactly what I'm going through. Therefore they DON'T JUDGE ME. And that gives me the space, comfort and a feeling of safety enough to for me open up to them, and help me explore my issues and my bad habits. So that I may find a cause, and a solution that I can stick with.0 -
I agree completely. The truth is not always easy to hear. It can really hurt sometimes, but often we NEED that jolt to bring us back to reality (no more living in delusional fantasyland please). When you are the one delivering the truth though, I would challenge you to look at your motivation for telling the truth. If you are confronting someone out of pure frustration, perhaps that conversation should be put on hold. When you can tell someone the truth out of love, that is a beautiful thing. Tough LOVE can hurt, but it still has to be motivated by love. When a person is faced with truth, they can either react or respond. They are MUCH more likely to respond to someone who is telling the truth in love than someone who is acting out of frustration, or their own personal convictions (which, by the way are not always best for other people).
I read your previous post/blog, and I understand where you are coming from. It can be very frustrating to read post after post after post of people making excuses, but one of the GREAT thing about this site is that you can feel like you are part of a community and that you are not alone. We all have bad days. We all have excuses that we COULD make from time to time (not that we should). I LOVE that if I am having a bad day, I can jump on the boards and read success stories. I love that if I see someone having a rough day, I can encourage them. I love that if I need help, I can ask for it. I am very blessed to have amazing friends and family in my life to encourage me and do life with me, but not everyone has a real life support system, so the MFP people become that, which is wonderful!! Furthermore, weight loss is a VERY personal subject, especially for women. Even if you have the most amazing friends and family, it is not always easy to talk about weight loss, fitness, body image issues, motivation, and nutrition.
I would challenge you to use the information that you have gleaned over the years to encourage people on the boards, and when you do find yourself getting really frustrated, do what I do, and stop reading!!! We are all on a journey. Some are just starting today, some have been maintaining for years, some have been fit for life, and there are many in process. I would love to learn from those who have succeeded in their quest for health, because really that is what this is all about!! HEALTH and wellness.
Goodnight all!!! 0 -
I agree completely. The truth is not always easy to hear. It can really hurt sometimes, but often we NEED that jolt to bring us back to reality (no more living in delusional fantasyland please). When you are the one delivering the truth though, I would challenge you to look at your motivation for telling the truth. If you are confronting someone out of pure frustration, perhaps that conversation should be put on hold. When you can tell someone the truth out of love, that is a beautiful thing. Tough LOVE can hurt, but it still has to be motivated by love. When a person is faced with truth, they can either react or respond. They are MUCH more likely to respond to someone who is telling the truth in love than someone who is acting out of frustration, or their own personal convictions (which, by the way are not always best for other people).
I read your previous post/blog, and I understand where you are coming from. It can be very frustrating to read post after post after post of people making excuses, but one of the GREAT thing about this site is that you can feel like you are part of a community and that you are not alone. We all have bad days. We all have excuses that we COULD make from time to time (not that we should). I LOVE that if I am having a bad day, I can jump on the boards and read success stories. I love that if I see someone having a rough day, I can encourage them. I love that if I need help, I can ask for it. I am very blessed to have amazing friends and family in my life to encourage me and do life with me, but not everyone has a real life support system, so the MFP people become that, which is wonderful!! Furthermore, weight loss is a VERY personal subject, especially for women. Even if you have the most amazing friends and family, it is not always easy to talk about weight loss, fitness, body image issues, motivation, and nutrition.
I would challenge you to use the information that you have gleaned over the years to encourage people on the boards, and when you do find yourself getting really frustrated, do what I do, and stop reading!!! We are all on a journey. Some are just starting today, some have been maintaining for years, some have been fit for life, and there are many in process. I would love to learn from those who have succeeded in their quest for health, because really that is what this is all about!! HEALTH and wellness. Goodnight all!!!
Very well said!
Sweet dreams, MFP!! :yawn:0 -
I couldn't agree more....i was born and raised with tough love. Don't sugar coat things for me...if you can't take constructive criticism then don't ask for people opinions, especially not mine. Yes, people come in all shapes and sizes and people's bodies don't react the same way to certain things...but you can't sit down and eat a bag of chips, complain about being fat and look to me for sympathy. Put down the chips and get up off your *kitten*! Yes i piss people off...do i care? Not one bit. If I can do it, anybody can. I am the single mom who's worked 2 jobs day and night to pay the bills-I've been down in the gutter but somehow managed to pull myself out. We all have to eat--we have choices-you can choose to eat crap or you can choose to eat clean. Yes, the crap tastes better, but look where it gets you. #1 thing I teach my daughter: life sucks get over it-don't whine and complain unless you're prepared to do something about it. The only person who can change your life is YOURSELF!0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 1.4M Health, Wellness and Goals
- 398.4K Introduce Yourself
- 44.7K Getting Started
- 261K Health and Weight Loss
- 176.4K Food and Nutrition
- 47.7K Recipes
- 233K Fitness and Exercise
- 462 Sleep, Mindfulness and Overall Wellness
- 6.5K Goal: Maintaining Weight
- 8.7K Goal: Gaining Weight and Body Building
- 153.5K Motivation and Support
- 8.4K Challenges
- 1.4K Debate Club
- 96.5K Chit-Chat
- 2.6K Fun and Games
- 4.8K MyFitnessPal Information
- 17 News and Announcements
- 21 MyFitnessPal Academy
- 1.5K Feature Suggestions and Ideas
- 3.2K MyFitnessPal Tech Support Questions