Doing more pull ups help!
gamerguy123
Posts: 48 Member
So I am a male and recently started adding pull-ups & chin ups to my routine. I am skinny fat but I have been working out for some time so I hoped I could at least do some. I can do like 2 chin ups and 0 pull-ups. It's horribly embarrassing at a gym. Normally I don't care but it sucks not being able to do 1. What exercises can I do to improve this?
I know loosing fat would help but I am 20 lbs overweight (6'1; 175 lbs), so I figured even at that high weight I should be able to some. I am also eating a deficit to loose weight.
I know loosing fat would help but I am 20 lbs overweight (6'1; 175 lbs), so I figured even at that high weight I should be able to some. I am also eating a deficit to loose weight.
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Replies
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Negative Pull ups (get your chest/chin to the bar- lower yourself slowly back down)
Assisted pull ups (band or machine)
Lat pull downs
Lat press downs
barbell rows
db rows
Australian/inverted rows
keep doing the things, it gets better.0 -
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I wouldn't be embarrassed. Pull ups and chin ups are challenging. What helped me get to unassisted was using the assistance bands in the varying resistances to the point where a band is no longer needed. That is what worked for me but I know there are other recommendations out there.0
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Negative Pull ups (get your chest/chin to the bar- lower yourself slowly back down)
Assisted pull ups (band or machine)
Lat pull downs
Lat press downs
barbell rows
db rows
Australian/inverted rows
keep doing the things, it gets better.
Agreed.
On a side note - I find it hard to believe that, at 6' 1" and 175lbs, you're over weight or have 20lbs to lose.
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Thanks all for your response. I think the key based your response is back training, which honestly I don't do much off.
And yes, Jackson I am fat. I have an extremely small frame. My current weight I am about 35 waist size. When I was 150 I was about 32 waist size. So about 20 lbs. I know it's hard to believe-just bad genetics. But regardless I appreciate the help. My main reason for including that was to avoid the obvious response of "loose fat to do pull-ups".0 -
Well the bigger you are the harder it is- which is why really big dudes- even really big fit dudes- don't do them often- or don't do that many- you can be hella strong- but if you're hella strong but hella big you're power to weight ratio isnt' going to be very good.
so while lose fat is a nice idea if you ARE over weight- you still have to train your back- you an lose all the fat on your body- but if you haven't trained your muscles they still won't be able to pull your muscle weight up.0 -
Negative Pull ups (get your chest/chin to the bar- lower yourself slowly back down)
Assisted pull ups (band or machine)
Lat pull downs
Lat press downs
barbell rows
db rows
Australian/inverted rows
keep doing the things, it gets better.
I'm 5'10" (Regardless of what my doctor says.), 230#
I can hit 5 in a set for the pull ups, by doing everything in that list.
You can get there, just push it.0 -
Well the bigger you are the harder it is- which is why really big dudes- even really big fit dudes- don't do them often- or don't do that many- you can be hella strong- but if you're hella strong but hella big you're power to weight ratio isnt' going to be very good.
so while lose fat is a nice idea if you ARE over weight- you still have to train your back- you an lose all the fat on your body- but if you haven't trained your muscles they still won't be able to pull your muscle weight up.
Thank you JoRocka, I agree with what you are saying. My main goal was to get some workouts, which you gave me. I do train, but when I read your list I realized I really wasn't doing much on the back. That might be the one area where my training was lacking now that I think about it. The only back exercises I do is the Lat pull down & deadlift 2-3X per week.
I am really going to try that list tomorrow. Today I am doing a different muscle group but tomorrow for sure. Hopefully I can do at least 1 by the end of October.0 -
I am a gym beginner, and I also introduced chin ups to my training routine.
Guess how many I can do, 0, that's right 0. That is the full range motion unassisted.
My gym has some assisting rubber bands and those are the ones I use. When I started I can't even do more than 5 with the thickest band (yeah, that bad of shape.....).
Now I can do 5x5 with the thinnest band (don't know the actual resistance weight.)
I have a pull up bar at home, which recently I discovered I can do a couple of unassisted chin ups (my door frame is really low so I noticed I am not doing a full range motion like in the gym). Something that I was not able to a couple of months ago.
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Once you get that first one, just keep pounding it.
1 every hour. Then 2 every hour, etc. Next thing you know, you've got 5, and then infinity and beyond.0 -
I also wanted to add that the pull up/chin up station at my Gym has handles that shape like this: _I I_ . I can do a couple of chin ups as I said earlier, but also by holding the I part of the bar (so my hands are sideways and my knuckles face each other), I can do several more. Will this sideways grip help me do pull ups (train the right muscles)?0
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It hits the muscles differently, it's a lot easier than the traditional wide grip pull up. Try it, then do ones where you have one hand wide, one in like a chin. So you're working a mixed grip.
Hit it hard, keep it mixed up, and commit to it. You'll get it. Hell, if I did, you can.0 -
My goal was one unassisted by my bday,next monday. I started 5 weeks ago at 90lbs on the assisted machine .i weigh 122. im now at 40 lbs able to do 3-4 reps 4 sets. Im not gonna make this goal so ill push it out to thanksgiving. I can do the hands facing each other bicep pullup but not the overhand. As far as those big guys, i watch one that can jump up grab the bar and do like 10-15. Im just in awe, and jealous as hell,i just wanna do one.0
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Again, I am beginner, but for what I've researched this is actually the best position for avoiding wrist pains. That's the one I am currently using.gamerguy123 wrote: »I also wanted to add that the pull up/chin up station at my Gym has handles that shape like this: _I I_ . I can do a couple of chin ups as I said earlier, but also by holding the I part of the bar (so my hands are sideways and my knuckles face each other), I can do several more. Will this sideways grip help me do pull ups (train the right muscles)?
I also added inverted rows to assist as a back exercise which I think also help to do chin ups.
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Yeah using that side grip I can actually do 4 on a good day. Which is still horrible. Using the fingers facing towards me (chin up) I can do 2. I am kind of surprised pull ups are so much harder, cannot do 1. But like others have said, I will loose weight and strengthen my back. Those guys that just jump up there and bust them out don't seem human...reminds me of Amell in the Arrow.0
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Your wrists will condition for it.0
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gamerguy123 wrote: »Well the bigger you are the harder it is- which is why really big dudes- even really big fit dudes- don't do them often- or don't do that many- you can be hella strong- but if you're hella strong but hella big you're power to weight ratio isnt' going to be very good.
so while lose fat is a nice idea if you ARE over weight- you still have to train your back- you an lose all the fat on your body- but if you haven't trained your muscles they still won't be able to pull your muscle weight up.
Thank you JoRocka, I agree with what you are saying. My main goal was to get some workouts, which you gave me. I do train, but when I read your list I realized I really wasn't doing much on the back. That might be the one area where my training was lacking now that I think about it. The only back exercises I do is the Lat pull down & deadlift 2-3X per week.
I am really going to try that list tomorrow. Today I am doing a different muscle group but tomorrow for sure. Hopefully I can do at least 1 by the end of October.
Definitely incorporate the back work- it'll help!
I would suggest checking out Grease the Groove- pull ups responds very well to the grease the groove method. So if you can set up a pull up bar at home- that might go a long way.
Secondly- if you have a friend or significant other help you with this- it'll help you identify the muscles you need- most people actually don't know which muscles they need-I mean- they know lats and back- but not really how to activate them in order to do a proper wide/or standard grip pull up (also why people who can't do pull ups find most success from neutral grip or chin up position- because it recruits so much bicep instead of the back)
So. grab your friend- have them stand behind you
Put your arms straight out to the side- like a giant T. palms forward (so not down- not up- forward)
Good.
now. without moving your shoulders or changing the angle of your wrists- just bend your elbows to 90*.
So now your'e fingers are pointed straight up. (as if someone was pointing a gun at you and you went DON"T SHOOT!!!!!)
Now- here is where you need your friend- have them put their hands UNDER your elbows. yes- under.
Now- you push your elbows down- they push up- so that you cannot move your elbows down.
All that- you should feel your back- and very much your sides.
THOSE are the muscles you need to do a pull up. Not just your upper lats.
so hopefully that helps!!!!
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oh that's cool, I need to try that.0
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Many people have this problem. I have a hard time myself because I have to take off 3-4 months at a time of certain exercises due to a joint disease. When I'm trying to build up my strength again for pull/chin/etc... I use the asst pull up/dip machine. I start with a weight I'm extremely comfortable with and work 5 sets twice a week. I use my version of Wendler's 5/3/1 with me increasing my weight 3% every week then back it off every month slightly and continuing. Here is a video of me attempting my first full body weight(223lb) a couple weeks ago after my lay off. There are one asst dip/pull up machines at each end of the apparatus I was using if you're not sure what machine I'm talking about. I concentrate on my lats quite a bit to pull you me up. Squeeze your shoulder blades together on the way up and try to extend your arms close to full on the way down. Don't worry about the number of reps you can do as much as strengthening the muscles. It will come in time I promise.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4kH1ky5yb4 0 -
oh that's cool, I need to try that.
If you're good at self acutualizing muscle awareness you can do it yourself- it's like how body builders hit back double bicep- but if you don't know what muscles those are- you cant' do it by yourself.
I do it alone all the time- it's a great stretch to reach all the way up above your head and then pull down to the side (and just a little in)- but it's a great tool for helping people (women especially) realize that they need the WHOLE back- and the lats- which wrap all the way down.
And it also helps with awareness on keeping the chest open- and thinking about pulling the chest to the bar rather than just getting your face to the bar (that thing girls do A LOT which makes me crazy.)0 -
These last two posts have been awesome advice. I will definitely do that stretch. I can do a few hammer ups like the video calls them--from the video I think I actually am doing those right.
All these posts have been awesome. I am thinking about starting a new thread, posting my entire workout routine. Maybe I can get some pointers on what to add...0 -
Since you can do 4 neutral grip chin ups, one thing you could attempt would be to program those in but staying away from failure on a per-set basis and build volume over weeks.
One example would be to train N-grip chins like this 2-3 days/week:
Week 1:
2,2,2
1,1,1 (omit this if you decide to train these 2/week)
2,2,2
Week 2:
2,2,2,2
1,1,1,1
2,2,2,2
Week 3:
2,2,2,2,2
1,1,1,1,1
2,2,2,2,2
Week 4:
2,2,2,2,2,2
1,1,1,1,1,1
2,2,2,2,2,2
Then around week 5 attempt:
3,3,3
2,1,2
3,3,3
Week 6
3,3,3,3
2,1,2,1
3,3,3,3
etc
etc
etc
Now granted this is just 1 method and there's all kinds of variables with respect to the remainder of your training program, but the idea here is to stay away from failure on a per-set basis and increase training volume over time, eventually increasing reps per set while backing down on total volume and re-adding volume.
Either way, you'll likely want to do the following things:
1) Train vertical pulling. Supplement with assisted and/or eccentric (timed negatives) work as needed.
2) Train horizontal pulling.
3) Lose weight
4) Increase training volume over time.
I would suspect that once you are training 5-6 rep sets of neutral grip, your max will be closer to 8-9, and at that point you will probably have also added 1-2 supinated grip chins to your max and you might be able to do a couple of overhand pullups.
At some point when the above occurs you could switch grips and start your progression over based on current max number of reps.0 -
Just keep building strength in the chin-up and set small goals, 5, 10, 15, etc. Are you joining the military and getting tested in the pull-up? If not, then don't stress about it just work the chin-up which is your strongest position and you will improve strength in your latissimus, posterior delts, etc. You will get strong enough to do regular pull-ups, I guarantee it.
If you're really savvy then get a pull-up bar for your house and put it in the closet or something. Everytime you go into that room, do pull-ups.0 -
I would honestly have to disagree a little with the additional accessory back work. If you want to do pull ups->do pull ups. I definitely agree with those who suggested doing them assisted in some way.
Accessory work is great if you are targeting a certain muscle for body building.
But a pull up is already a great compound exercise. Doing them assisted will obviously train all the muscles you need to do them in the first place. So I personally would not recommend extensive back workouts just to do a pull up.
I think the resistance band assistance is great. But once you can successfully do them--its all about progressive load from there!
You'll get them in time. And once you do, it is a great feeling to walk up to the pull up bar confidently and bang out a few sets.0 -
Meh- I had to take a PT test in college- I trained exclusively through occasional pull ups- and mostly extremely heavy lat pull down training. If you can find the right cocktail for YOU- you can really make it go a long way.0
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Hey. All good advice, I just wanted to add, maybe try weighting your chin-ups. I can only manage 3 chin-ups in a row and 1 pull-up
but I've added weight to the chins so that hopefully when I do them with just bodyweight getting more reps should be easier. 0 -
Jorocka your so right about actualizing the muscle. The back area is the hardest ,its so easy to let the biceps and shoulders take the lead. I started shooting a compound bow 4 years ago and still have a hard time isolating what they call your bow muscle. The best shooters only have to relax that muscle to trigger their release.0
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Buy a door frame pull up bar and every time you walk by it, do a set till failure. You'll have wings in no time.0
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Great advice from joerocka the whole way thru this thread.0
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LeadingMuscle wrote: »Buy a door frame pull up bar and every time you walk by it, do a set till failure. You'll have wings in no time.
Early on in progress I agree with this. At one point I could only 2 reps and I bought one for my home and put it in my bedroom, I did 1 rep everytime I walked in the room and I would add a couple reps as my max reps improved. Eventually my pull-up strength got considerably stronger and I started using 5 sets of reps @ 50% of max reps. So if could do 10 reps, then I would do 5 x 5 for one week. Then next week I will do 5 x 6, then 5x7, and so on. Right now I can do 12 reps @ BW +30lbs. I don't do any other upper back work other than a couple sets of DB Rows once per week and a couple sets of Pendlay Rows once per week, but I do pull-ups / chin-ups 3 days a week and rotate grips as well.
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