Should I eat more calories?

lucygoesrawr · September 2014

I eat 1200 calories. If I do no exercise (that includes going for walks and stuff), I actually maintain my weight. Which is ridiculous, but there you go... possibly something to do with being quite short (5'1).

Anyway, when I do my daily walks/jogs/strength training as normal, and eat back the calories, I lose at half a pound to a pound a week.

However, I recently increased my jogging program - doing more jogging with fewer breaks. I'm still eating back the calories, but for a few days I've been waking up hurting and hungry, and feeling quite faint in the morning. So I was wondering if this means my TDEE thingy has gone up, but that doesn't seem right. I don't think I'm ill... I just don't want to eat more calories as a precaution and then start putting weight on after I've worked so hard to get it off.

Suggestions?

ana3067 · September 2014

If you are moving around more and haven't lost that much weight yet, then yes your TDEE has probably increased. Even if you did lose weight it would have increased from where it was at before you changed your workouts.

TDEE means maintenance needs. THe more active you are, the more energy your body burns.

At 5'1, unless you are veeeeeery light, there's no way in hell that 1200 is a safe/ideal deficit. I'm assuming you have MFP set up for 2lbs/week. With 22lbs left to go, you don't need to be losing 8lbs a month. And since your diary isn't open, I cannot tell how you are logging your food. But you could easily be logging incorrectly - not weighing or at least measuring food, using wrong entries for what you're actually eating (e.g. using cooked info when you are measuring your food raw), using entries that are just plain wrong (incorrect calories, incorrect portion/measurements). So you could even be eating more than 1200 calories which could be why you aren't losing, although I doubt you're overeating to the point of being at your current maintenance through accidental over-consumption.

Try changing your goals to 1lb/week, measure your food or weigh it. Make sure all your logging is correct. And make sure you'r ebeing honest with your daily activity levels outside of exercise (did you say that you're active because you exercise, and then you also log exercise? MFP uses net, not TDEE. So you state your non-exercise activity levels, and then log any exercise you do on top of that. TDEE takes into account both types of activities).

lucygoesrawr · September 2014

So I'll definitely be okay to add extra calories in general, still eating back exercise calories? Probably wouldn't hurt to just try it for a week, I suppose... how much would you suggest increasing it by? (My TDEE supposedly is 1548, or 1774 with exercise... don't really believe that, though)
My husband did tell me that my metabolism could have increased because I've started doing some different weight training stuff. Deadlifts, 'presses', some other stuff I don't really remember the names for...

I really do believe 1200 is (or, at least, was) a perfectly safe calorie goal. I've been on that for a while now and have felt fine until now. I'm not losing 2 pounds a week, only a pound at most.

I'm definitely not logging incorrectly. I weigh almost everything (or measure, for liquids), log everything I eat, and double check entries in the database where possible. Though as I said, my weight loss is all right as long as I'm active. It's when I sit all day barely moving when I maintain at 1200.

Thank you for the advice

P.S. Took a little look at your profile - I wish I could lift that much!

_Zardoz_ · September 2014

I eat 1200 calories. If I do no exercise (that includes going for walks and stuff), I actually maintain my weight. Which is ridiculous, but there you go... possibly something to do with being quite short (5'1).

This is more likely to be due to you eating more than you think. It's actually not easy to log accurately and very easy to miss log things Before you change anything check you logging. Are you weighing all solids and measuring all liquids. Are you using accurate database entries. Have a look at the link it will help you tighten your logging up

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/1234699-logging-accurately-step-by-step-guide

Liftng4Lis · September 2014

With so little left to lose your should have your goal set at 1/2 pound a week. If you are feeling hungry and faint, its a great indicator that you're not eating enough, so YES, eat more.

ana3067 · September 2014

So I'll definitely be okay to add extra calories in general, still eating back exercise calories? Probably wouldn't hurt to just try it for a week, I suppose... how much would you suggest increasing it by? (My TDEE supposedly is 1548, or 1774 with exercise... don't really believe that, though)
My husband did tell me that my metabolism could have increased because I've started doing some different weight training stuff. Deadlifts, 'presses', some other stuff I don't really remember the names for...

I really do believe 1200 is (or, at least, was) a perfectly safe calorie goal. I've been on that for a while now and have felt fine until now. I'm not losing 2 pounds a week, only a pound at most.

I'm definitely not logging incorrectly. I weigh almost everything (or measure, for liquids), log everything I eat, and double check entries in the database where possible. Though as I said, my weight loss is all right as long as I'm active. It's when I sit all day barely moving when I maintain at 1200.

Thank you for the advice

P.S. Took a little look at your profile - I wish I could lift that much!

You may feel like you feel fine right now, but I would bet that once you lessen the degree of your deficit you will feel even better. I'm eating 2000, which is about a 20% deficit for me, and whenever I have gone up to like 2200 I'll feel better - that's just a 200 cal difference! Not to say I feel bad now, but I am more prone to being cranky and my recovery is not as good as it could be.

There's no generic number to suggest increasing it to. I highly doubt your TDEE is that low unless youi're just really slim. Check out exrx.net and scoobys, both links on my profile btw. I liket he first since it lets you input hours spent at different intensity levels. Strength training is moderate btw.

Since you've been eating 1200, you've either been eating more than that and thus exercise gives you a better deficit to help you lose again, or you've just affected your metabolism by not eating enough and exercise is the only way you can increase your deficit now. "Reverse dieting" up to your estimated TDEE would be worth doing. Don't take the BMR number, take the bigger number that is given with it. That is the estimated cals needed for you to maintain your weight. Then subtract 20% once you've figured out if this number does help you maintain. Or, you can subtract 20% and reverse diet up to that new deficit and monitor your weight for a month. If you are logging and weighing correctly, then you should be able to see changes in your weight after a month or two. Reverse dieting is basically adding an extra 50-100 cals (more if the end goal is higher) every week until you reach your new caloric goal.

ETA: thanks

Although personally I wish i could lift much heavier, especially for my upper body. But that will come in time - my deadlift is pretty good though, it's my best lift. Everything else is much lower than it should be

Combo of not training properly before i started on MFP and not having enough energy to increase my lifts steadily. And being afraid to increase them any time I reach my rep maxes (in the past - now forcing myself to increase)

MKEgal · September 2014

I eat 1200 calories. If I do no exercise, I actually maintain my weight. Which is ridiculous, but there you go... possibly something to do with being quite short (5'1).

Yep. For your height, 120 lb (1200 cal) is actually in the healthy range for BMI.
http://www.shapeup.org/bmi/bmi6.pdf

when I do my daily walks/jogs/strength training as normal, and eat back the calories, I lose at half a pound to a pound a week.

And if you hadn't been eating extra, you would have lost more weight, probably faster too.
My doctor & dietician told me not to eat my exercise calories. 1 - most people underestimate calories eaten, 2 - most machines, including MFP, overestimate calories burned.
But with having so little left to lose (your ticker says 22 lb) staying at 0.5 lb per week is reasonable.

I recently increased my jogging program - doing more jogging with fewer breaks. I'm still eating back the calories, but for a few days I've been waking up hurting and hungry, and feeling quite faint in the morning.

How recently? It could be that you're just adjusting to a sudden increase in intensity.
But being hungry in the morning is normal. Have a good big breakfast, about 1/2 your calories for the day.
See the last half of this blog post for several studies saying that eating a large breakfast is linked to more weight loss:
http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/MKEgal/view/2014-06-10-some-studies-about-weight-loss-667818

So I was wondering if this means my TDEE thingy has gone up

Yes, if you're exercising more then you're expending more energy. (Total Daily Energy Expenditure)
Your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate) might have increased a little, but it's hard to influence. (And no, you probably haven't slowed it any by eating an appropriate amount of calories for your height.)

I just don't want to eat more calories as a precaution and then start putting weight on after I've worked so hard to get it off.

Smart.
Give it a week or two at your regular calorie intake (1200) and see if your body adjusts, see how much weight you're losing. If it stays at 0.5 lb per week, you're doing it right.

Here's a calculator from the Baylor College of Medicine that will tell you how many servings of which food groups you should be eating to maintain a certain weight & activity level.
For a 25yo female of your height, active about an hour a day, it says you should have just under 2000 cal per day to maintain 120 lb.
That's an estimate, and doesn't take into account whether you're walking slowly for an hour or running 8mph on the elliptical.
https://www.bcm.edu/research/centers/childrens-nutrition-research-center/healthyeatingcalculator/eatingCal.html

lucygoesrawr · September 2014

Okay, I'm not going to get into the whole weighing and logging thing again, because I don't want to snap at anyone. So, moving on.

I probably should mention I'm 22, 140 pounds, 33% body fat. Aiming for 118 and 22% body fat. The 22 pounds is daunting to me, doesn't seem like a small amount at all....

It is possible I damaged my metabolism, if that really does happen. Basically, last year (I think it was) I sort of didn't do any research and just guessed how many calories I needed, so I went with 700-800 a day. I kept this up for about two months at first, and was losing a pound a day, but kept binge eating quite badly and putting weight on again...

I eventually gave up because it was giving me several issues with eating, which I'm still getting over (one reason why I don't like people seeing my diary)... pretty sure I lost more muscle than actual fat, too. I've had some health issues that it probably contributed to, as well. But I did keep trying it every so often again, usually only for a few days at a time, but it was making me ill at that point. So I had a long break and then started this far more sensible calorie intake. I don't know whether that could have had an effect.

ana3067 -
The TDEE is from Scooby's website. It is quite low, that's why I worry about increasing my calories because there's not that much room for error. Still, might be worth a try. My recovery time is awful, admittedly, but I have a condition that exacerbates that. Possibly all the more reason to eat a bit more though...

MKEgal -
I'd respectfully disagree about the exercise calories. I'm sure they are overestimated, but I put in less activity than I really did to try and make up for this. My only motivation for doing my horrible runs is that I can eat something tasty as a reward

I increased the jogging this week. Maybe I haven't given it enough time... but according to the program I'm supposed to do even more next week.

I'm fine with being hungry in the morning. It's the pain that worries me.
It is nice when someone understands that as a short person I really can't just eat a load of calories. I've seen a lot of nasty comments around these forums about 1200 calorie diets... However, I'm aiming to gain plenty of muscle so I can eat more - I love food. (And then everyone around me can stop telling my husband 'You need to carry this for Lucy' just because I'm small.)

Not sure if I've replied to everything, but I need to go. I appreciate all the advice by the way. Sorry if I sound argumentative at all.

ana3067 · September 2014

Assuming you're active at least 1 hour a week, then your estimated TDEE is closer to 1850. Sedentary (scoobys' estimate for sedentary is way too low btw) is 1600. If your maintenance really is about 1850, then 1500 would be enough to lose a few lbs a month. 1550 would be even a bit better since you don't have THAT much weight to lose and your food allowance is not very high.

I do prefer this website though:
http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html

and just putting in generic info for you, 2000 is given as an estimated TDEE. So 16-1700 would be a good range for fat loss.

You might want to consider eating up to one of these estimated TDEEs and seeing if you maintain. If you do maintain after a month, subtract 15-20% and monitor over time. You can lower by 50-100 cals as the weight loss slows, but that will also make it harder for you to maintain a deficit because of hte decreased food. Slower weight loss might be better than handling issues with hunger.

I agree with your stance on continuing to eat exercise calories if you choose to use MFP's net method. If you use TDEE, you do NOT eat them back as it's accounted for in the calories. But to not eat back the exercise cals when using net method means you are undereating for your activity levels. Which is not going to help you out in the long term. YOu need to lose weight on as much food as you possibly can.

At 1200 calories, even at your height, this is really not a viable option unless you are 100% completely sedentary, never leaving your bed. Otherwise, I'd not venture below 1400 at your height. And you will not put on any muscle in your deficit, and since you are at a very low deficit you will have a harder time maintaining what muscle/lean mass you do have. Protein here is important for this as well, but not having an aggressive deficit is just as important.

lucygoesrawr · September 2014

Well, I've started eating 1300 calories. I'm feeling much better - faintness has gone.

I'll see how my weight loss goes and if it's all right I might increase by another 100.

Will I not put on any muscle in a deficit at all? It's just I'm sure I've put a little on on my upper arms and there's definitely one that's gotten bigger near my wrist. (And the backs of my thighs feel harder, but that could just be fat loss...) I was under the impression that if you're new to weight training you sort of put on some muscle regardless?

In December I had planned to eat at maintenance anyway (because Christmas

), so I can try your suggestion about eating maintenance and going down from there during that time.

lucygoesrawr · October 2014

I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing - with TDEE calculations, does strength training count as activity (like in Scooby's calculator)? Or is that just supposed to mean cardio?

TheRealAk8s · October 2014

This is interesting. I look forward to more replies on this thread.

missbirrell · October 2014

Try a week at higher calorie, with the same exercise level and see what happens.

_lyndseybrooke_ · October 2014

All I read was, "I eat 1200 calories," before I decided the answer to your question is most likely yes, you should be eating more.

Also, 5'1" isn't all that short. Unless you're under 5" and an older woman (as in menopausal), chances are you can lose weight eating more than you're eating.

Saying you maintain your weight at 1200 calories per day but lose 1/2 a pound a week exercising and eating back those calories doesn't really add up, does it? With your stats, your TDEE with 1-3 hours of exercise per week is 1768, meaning you should be able to eat 1500 calories per day and lose 0.5-1 lb per week.

My guess is that you're overestimating the calories you're burning and/or underestimating the calories you're consuming. If you're weighing all of your solids and measuring all of your liquids, and logging accurately and consistently, every single day, even if it's a "bad" day like you say you are, then you should see a doctor about maintaining your weight at such a low calorie intake. We're all different, but 1200 calories should be no one's maintenance.

Should I eat more calories?

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