Less than 20 minute 5k, what's it take?

tomcornhole
tomcornhole Posts: 1,084 Member
in Fitness and Exercise
I reached my initial goal of <24 minute 5k today (23:48). I have my first race this Saturday and would like to break 23 minutes. So what's next? The running is impacting my power lifting to the point where I am not making any progress on the powerlifting, but I am hooked on this quest for faster so I am willing to let the powerlifting suffer a bit while I see where I can go with speed. My stretch goal is to break 20 minutes in a race and then stop racing and get back to powerlifting.

So, what should I expect to have to do to get from <24 to <20? My goal is to get there before 2015 gets here. Appreciate your thoughts.

Tom

Replies

  • glevinso
    glevinso Posts: 1,895 Member
    Run. A lot. Not just "jogging" either, but you will need some quality interval training.

    20:00 is a 6:27/mile average. Tough to do unless you are already quite light weight. Lots of 100, 200 and 400 meter intervals.

    Also that is a competing goal with most other things, especially powerlifting.

    In my experience, coming from an Ironman and Marathon background, I was able to hit 19:46 a few years ago before I really starting pushing for Ironman races. Although I am going to go out today and run a 13 mile tempo run as training for my upcoming marathon if someone asks me to run a 5k with them I will tell them I am not really in "5k shape".
  • glevinso
    glevinso Posts: 1,895 Member
    Also going from 24:00 to 20:00 in the 55 days left of 2014 is going to be a real long shot unless you have some innate running talent.
  • Carrieendar
    Carrieendar Posts: 493 Member
    Some ideas...

    -extend weekly mileage. When I train for my upcoming 5k ill do 40 miles per week thereabouts or more.
    -have some fast finish long runs in there...not every weekend, but cluster them closer to the race
    - interval training (short and faster) once you have a good base of slower training miles established
    - Tempo running (longer and comfortably hard, lactic threshold)
    - Good taper
    - Lower body fat percentage

    Not sure it can be done in 2 months.
  • glevinso
    glevinso Posts: 1,895 Member
    Carrieendar wrote: »
    Some ideas...

    -extend weekly mileage. When I train for my upcoming 5k ill do 40 miles per week thereabouts or more.
    -have some fast finish long runs in there...not every weekend, but cluster them closer to the race
    - interval training (short and faster) once you have a good base of slower training miles established
    - Tempo running (longer and comfortably hard, lactic threshold)
    - Good taper
    - Lower body fat percentage

    Not sure it can be done in 2 months.


    Bolded - that is a very good point. Running a fast 5k, and running a fast marathon, both require high run volume weeks. The structure of those weeks is certainly going to be different, but in terms of total run volume it won't be all that far off.
  • glevinso
    glevinso Posts: 1,895 Member
    I just did a quick check in my training logs from 2011. Ahead of that <20:00 5K I was running 35 miles a week for the previous 10 weeks with long runs between 8 and 10 miles on the weekends. Weekdays were 4 mile "easy runs" for volume, usually a 6 mile tempo run in there, and a track session where I did lots of 200m intervals, some 400s as well.
  • kwvogel
    kwvogel Posts: 10 Member
    Unfortunately, losing muscle mass "up top" and the associated weight from the muscles will help you run faster. Think about it-- how much slower would you be wearing a 10 lb backpack? How much faster will you run with 10 lb of (un-needed) muscle?

    I run and I lift (P90X), but the training for the next marathon I do will have negligible upper-body strength training...
  • tomcornhole
    tomcornhole Posts: 1,084 Member
    If this 5k training requires me to lose any muscle mass then it's over. I think I can get to < 20 minutes and keep my 160 lbs of LBM (196 lbs body weight). I may not progress on my lifts while I do this but I will not stop my lifting. They should have a real ironman where you move iron ( (powerlifting meet) and then run a 5k.
  • disasterman
    disasterman Posts: 746 Member
    Lighter is generally better but only to a point. Read Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald which is about reaching the optimal weight for your goals.
  • glevinso
    glevinso Posts: 1,895 Member
    disasterman wrote: »
    Lighter is generally better but only to a point. Read Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald which is about reaching the optimal weight for your goals.

    To be fair, though, the point at which you lose speed because you are TOO light is going to be obviously too low for most people. I am 5'7" and sitting at 145lbs. Racing Weight tells me this is my ideal weight, but I could probably try to take off maybe 5 more. I am a twiggy guy already and they barely sell pants that fit me as it is.
  • SonicDeathMonkey80
    SonicDeathMonkey80 Posts: 4,489 Member
    Racing weight certainly helps, but I've been whooped by a big dude on more than one occasion. Your best bet is to increase your MPW to at least 40, incorporate 2 days of lactic threshold work (hills, intervals, tempos), and lots of easy runs to increase your aerobic capacity. The aerobic capacity will get you there above the waist, the threshold work will help your legs not die. Took me a good year to go from a 23:XX 5K to a 19:50, but keep in mind I never trained for that distance - I just hit it via training for longer distances.
  • SonicDeathMonkey80
    SonicDeathMonkey80 Posts: 4,489 Member
    tomcornhole wrote: »
    If this 5k training requires me to lose any muscle mass then it's over. I think I can get to < 20 minutes and keep my 160 lbs of LBM (196 lbs body weight). I may not progress on my lifts while I do this but I will not stop my lifting. They should have a real ironman where you move iron ( (powerlifting meet) and then run a 5k.

    Look up the Arnold Pump and Run in Columbus, Ohio.
  • tomcornhole
    tomcornhole Posts: 1,084 Member
    SonicDeathMonkey80 wrote: »
    tomcornhole wrote: »
    They should have a real ironman where you move iron ( (powerlifting meet) and then run a 5k.

    Look up the Arnold Pump and Run in Columbus, Ohio.

    That is too cool. If I am still doing this 5k thing next fall, I will do this one for sure. A lot of great runners and lifters participated this year. A 63 year old male did 15 bench press reps at his body weight and then ran a 19:07 5k. Damn.
  • disasterman
    disasterman Posts: 746 Member
    edited November 2014
    glevinso wrote: »
    disasterman wrote: »
    Lighter is generally better but only to a point. Read Racing Weight by Matt Fitzgerald which is about reaching the optimal weight for your goals.

    To be fair, though, the point at which you lose speed because you are TOO light is going to be obviously too low for most people. I am 5'7" and sitting at 145lbs. Racing Weight tells me this is my ideal weight, but I could probably try to take off maybe 5 more. I am a twiggy guy already and they barely sell pants that fit me as it is.

    It's a fair point. And I was thinking more about endurance events like triathlons than a "sprint distance" event like a 5K where lighter probably is better, period. That said, I think the book does a pretty good job of discussing the various factors that influence performance and how to balance them.

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